Reasons why thief is not OP

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Emdrix.6124

Emdrix.6124

Did people forget that a thief cannot 1v1 or team fight in spvp ? Due to the amount of AoEs and on point pressure, thief is beyond worthless in a team fight, unless they have a very squishy target u can take out fast but nobody is squishy with a bunker ele next to them Combine that with the fact that thief cannot cleave because its too easy to counter cleave a thief with CC and condi bomb, its even easier to just get a res and reset the fight again. So that makes thief pretty much useless in team fights.

Now lets talk about thiefs 1v1 capability, thief loses to engi, druid and guardian and condi warrior aswell, a Mesmer that knows how to kite and stands on spot where thief cannot steal also beats thief 1v1.

So thief has only good match up against rev and enemy thief, it can kill necro too but it takes so long that its not worth fighting,

So that leaves thief with the role of decap and +1. Now can a thief really +1 effectlvely against top tier players than know how to kite and jumping puzzle on a bunker build? Nope. You cant kill a good engi even in a 1v2, same goes for druid. Because its too easy to reset yourself on a bunker build and troll the thief 1v2 and waste his time.

With all the weakness listed above I still do not see how thief is overpowered. Is it OP aganst less experienced players? Yes but so is every class, if a noob cannot dodge or use cooldowns properly he will die to anything not just thieves.

I think they are far too many nerfs threads on the forums about thieves where in reality its not even as strong as most builds right now. Engi/Druid are far superior at most roles and necro is still a better DPS team fighter because of nerfed rev. And DH would be the most broken class right now if support ele did not exist.

The only problem with the thief that I see currently is acrobatics traitline which allows some really brainless build like acro staff and D/D condi, the meta DP build is not overpowered.

It can be a complete different story in solo Q in the current system cuz most people are morons and thief shines in uncoordinated play where people cannot rotate and cannot survive longer than 3 secs but that’s their fault and not the games fault.

The balance right now is in a pretty good spot except for rev that needs buffs.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

You are talking to a wall, give them chance and they would delete thief from pvp all together. People just want bunkerfest from s1 all over again.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

Pretty much 10/10 this post, if we want to cater to the low tier players then by all means let’s start hitting the nerfs lads

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

‘thief cant 1v1’’

optimized thief 1v1 beats:

mesmer(mesmer wins locations where thief cant steal but thats quarry and mine out of every single node in the game) , rev, necro, ele

while also beating all of these classes in mobility

thief used to have bad 2v2 but it’s really something you can debate right now since you’ll always get a 2v1 opening and nobody other than scrapper and warrior can properly sustain a thief 2v1.

tldr every single top player agrees that thief is insane right now except for sind whos clearly unbiased.

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Posted by: Emdrix.6124

Emdrix.6124

‘thief cant 1v1’’

optimized thief 1v1 beats:

mesmer(mesmer wins locations where thief cant steal but thats quarry and mine out of every single node in the game) , rev, necro, ele

while also beating all of these classes in mobility

thief used to have bad 2v2 but it’s really something you can debate right now since you’ll always get a 2v1 opening and nobody other than scrapper and warrior can properly sustain a thief 2v1.

tldr every single top player agrees that thief is insane right now except for sind whos clearly unbiased.

So people want to be able to survive a thief for years in a 2v1. LOL . And yea Mesmer now isn’t as good but it was broken for many seasons , while thief hasent been viable since pre HoT.

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

You take my comment of thief being able to 1v1 a majority of ESL classes while having the best mobility in the game on top of having a majority won 2v2 matchup spreadsheet due to nobody being able to counterplay the 2v1 and turn it into:

‘’People should be able to survive thief for years 2v1’’

Thief has been viable for forever. Daredevil has always been good. Just because it didnt win lan (it ’’only’’ had extremely close games which could have easily gone either way for ABJ vs 55 in PLS2 ) and definitely wasnt the fault of vm vs abj. It also completely dominated vermillion, the 2nd plcae finalists in the world championship vs a superpug that never played together when sind got to play it with my team/55 ppl.

Not only that, we were perfectly capable of roflstomping abjured playing mesmer thief when scrimming for wcs.

Are you gonna take these facts and turn it into me saying ‘’thief should be unplayable’’ now?

All I’m saying is that every single top player agrees that thief is over the top right now.

At least I had the decency to agree that mesmer was too strong and that moa needed nerf, that shield 4 jump needed to be fixed etc so dont try to frame me stating the competitive communitys opinion as anything else than that.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

‘thief cant 1v1’’

optimized thief 1v1 beats:

mesmer(mesmer wins locations where thief cant steal but thats quarry and mine out of every single node in the game) , rev, necro, ele

while also beating all of these classes in mobility

thief used to have bad 2v2 but it’s really something you can debate right now since you’ll always get a 2v1 opening and nobody other than scrapper and warrior can properly sustain a thief 2v1.

tldr every single top player agrees that thief is insane right now except for sind whos clearly unbiased.

Source of such claims?

Biased?…. oh the irony in this one.

On that note, yes, thief can 1v1 some classes but it takes time, a lot of time and in most cases simply not worth it, in fact it leads to match loss. Not to mention, that even if thief does manage to kill his opponent he probably lost the point in meanwhile and lot of match points at that. It is a loss/loss situation. The only time i ever 1v1 someone is when 1. it is our point 2. i know i can kill them really quickly because they are bad or/and run bad build OR i know help will arrive soon.

As far as tourneys go (since we are bringing those in), last time i checked Sind played thief because he didn’t care anymore. Other thief in tourneys simply got ignored by the enemy team since his impact wasn’t really that meaningful. Yeah, thief is so insane yo that it is valid strategy just to ignore him.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

‘thief cant 1v1’’

optimized thief 1v1 beats:

mesmer(mesmer wins locations where thief cant steal but thats quarry and mine out of every single node in the game) , rev, necro, ele

while also beating all of these classes in mobility

thief used to have bad 2v2 but it’s really something you can debate right now since you’ll always get a 2v1 opening and nobody other than scrapper and warrior can properly sustain a thief 2v1.

tldr every single top player agrees that thief is insane right now except for sind whos clearly unbiased.

Source of such claims?

Biased?…. oh the irony in this one.

On that note, yes, thief can 1v1 some classes but it takes time, a lot of time and in most cases simply not worth it, in fact it leads to match loss. Not to mention, that even if thief does manage to kill his opponent he probably lost the point in meanwhile and lot of match points at that. It is a loss/loss situation.

Thief does not lose the point in a 1v1 vs any of the classes I mentioned except for necro. My definition of losing the point BTW is that the enemy fullcaps you and hold a decent level of time. Sure, thief wont be holding the fullcap vs a mesmer attacking him but that goes both ways.

Do you watch top players stream? Every single noteable name who streams says this. Of course, we also speak together and I’m just voicing what these people agree on.

Do you think I feel the need to lie to the GW2 forums about the opinon of VM on thief? Or my own teammates? Or anyone who isnt sind lmao. I’m the source and I’m a pretty good one. If you choose to believe that I am lying to push the evil agenda on the GW2 forums which have absolutely no impact at all then you’re delusional. I simply posted to inform.

‘’As far as tourneys go (since we are bringing those in), last time i checked Sind played thief because he didn’t care anymore. Other thief in tourneys simply got ignored by the enemy team since his impact wasn’t really that meaningful. Yeah, thief is so insane yo that it is valid strategy just to ignore him.’’

Thief dominantly won vs VM 3-0 from a superpug that never played together. Do you not understand how huge that is? Do you understand how much VM has practiced together?
’’Ignoring’’ the thief does not work. It only works VS abjured because they would never in the history of time disengage a fight.

4v4 on close
class X tries to chase thief who constantly decaps middle/far
class X gives up because it’s impossible and goes to 5v5
Thief fights 5v5 and loses.
All abjured had to do multiple times in the sets was disengage the 4v4 while the class X was moving towards the closefight. Even if one person would die from this, probably nos, VM would have been stuck in a 4v4 mapwise anyway because if they all push to middle right after they cap close they’d just lose it to thief, allowing abj to disengage again. I analyzed them on stream, showing exact scenariosr, assuming you care to learn instead of continue having an uninformed view.

(edited by nothelseth.4621)

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

You say absolute dominated vs vM? Please we barely won Legacy we did a lord rush and won we were behind most of the game, temple could have gone either way. This is as you said against vM vs pugs sure but you also know they had zero pracc against thief and frosty being back. And to be honest “never played together” is a huge over statement as well. I have played with both denshee/frae/zan on thief before only one that I hadn’t was Misha

I said it before i’m all up for nerfing PI if they buff/remove nerfs from thief (stealth attack CD) add damage into HS/increase speed or more damage for backstab to make it valuable to use other than with steal.

Also D/P thief is not even close to being viable in a 1v1 role we will remain as a + 1 role cus lack of sustain etc etc. And what the hell the only decent 2v2 thief ever has on paper would be thief+mes if you happen to land a good moa or fight 2x dpsers (rev, DH) or something like this. You add 1x sustain and 1x dpser and thief has no 2v2 potential.

And you say that engi+war is the only who can sustain a thief? DH? DRUID?? Even mes to some extent if you are on your A game and have a 1v1 against no counter class. The fact that so many classes can survive and resustain a thief making a fight uneven where they are supposed to shine makes you wanting to nerf it making it EVEN harder to kill these bunkers

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

(edited by bluri.2653)

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Posted by: MaPko.7408

MaPko.7408

shots fired

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

imma just refer u to the edit to my post
ull agree with everything

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

imma just refer u to the edit to my post
ull agree with everything

So you are saying thieves suddenly 1v1s mesmers and eles is actually worth the time it takes? I’m pretty sure you understand that yourself, I can fight a good ele and he’ll survive a long time before I can kill him that should be enough time for anything to rotate or win the map lol, and even then I’m not sure you really can (I haven’t really tried to fight a good ele 1v1 because the amount of time it actually takes) and it would be even worse against mesmers.

And it’s funny how you bring up revenants then, you want the class to be back into the state where it can stalemate druid, kill eles, engis and do equal/teamfights AND being a better +1 against druids/engis due to reveal, yet thief is considered to OP being a + 1 role and suddenly have a good matchup against revs (rest of the MU you list are debatable and too unknown for me to say anything about)

So just let me get this straight you feel thief is too OP because it can 1v1 ele/mes(ur words) and revenants? But nerfing thief to not being able to kill those 3 classes results in thief being even more ineffective against all the other bruisers?

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

(edited by bluri.2653)

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Posted by: MissCee.1295

MissCee.1295

Totally off topic, but… I just wanna say actual pro’s adding to discussion on the forums is only thing keeping me interested these days. Such a nice change from “qq” or “git gud” posts.

Keep up the good work lads, some of us appreciate it.

My toons: Loki Thunderstruck, Loki Livewire,Loki Spellbound, Loki Meanstreak

Find pvp players: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Shadowstep.6049

Shadowstep.6049

most biased mes EU vs best thief EU
3
2
1
FIGHT!

On more serious note: Helseth your logic would be working if it took thief few seconds to kill said classes and not like 2-3 min. As far as mobility goes, nothing stops druids from abusing RTL on low CD, that is why decaps are impossible vs half decent druids on legacy map. Same goes for Dhs that have enough gap closers to catch up to a thief. Maybe, just maybe thief will get the decap but he surely won’t be fighting DH.

Ele shouldn’t be 1v1 a thief anyway, he should be sitting in team fights. Same goes for rev and necro. And how dare thief to actually be able to fight any class in this game!!! Now i know where inspiration for the dev team came from. Thanks for crappy year, dear Helseth! – with not so much love, thief community.

I don’t understand why do you want 100% win chance vs thief as a mes(besides being biased, that is). How would you justify it?

When retri rev was a thing, there was no place for thief, simple as it is. That is not just countering, that is making a class obsolete. Is this what you want?

(edited by Shadowstep.6049)

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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

thats just in: thief dominates 1v1 and 2v2

5 thief teams new meta incoming

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

imma just refer u to the edit to my post
ull agree with everything

So you are saying thieves suddenly 1v1s mesmers and eles is actually worth the time it takes? I’m pretty sure you understand that yourself, I can fight a good ele and he’ll survive a long time before I can kill him that should be enough time for anything to rotate or win the map lol, and even then I’m not sure you really can (I haven’t really tried to fight a good ele 1v1 because the amount of time it actually takes) and it would be even worse against mesmers.

And it’s funny how you bring up revenants then, you want the class to be back into the state where it can stalemate druid, kill eles, engis and do equal/teamfights yet thief is considered to OP being a + 1 role and suddenly have a good matchup against revs (rest of the MU you list are debatable and too unknown for me to say anything about)

So just let me get this straight you feel thief is too OP because it can 1v1 ele/mes(ur words) and revenants? But nerfing thief to not being able to kill those 3 classes results in thief being even more ineffective against all the other bruisers?

Ele melts to thief, ive watched densh duel drazeh for hours and thief kills ele faster than any other class. I’ve also spammed duels vs drazeh thief as a mesmer. You know how good drazeh is at thief duel MU and it’s absurd to see how optimized thief 1v1 MU chart is. You don’t see that because you insist on playing thief in the roam +1 POV only but the actual 1v1 capability of thief is horrifying.

I’ll just repeat what I said:

The class with the best mobility in the game as well as a constant access to stealth NEEDS to have a bad mu chart. You shouldnt only lose node to warrior, engi and druid because only one of these three classes can ’’almost’’ follow you. This means that in a competitive setting the team without a thief literally has 0 counterplay to a thief pushing a node. The only counter is to have a thief of your own.

This exact problem has existed in the past before with pistolwhip thief. You can’t make the roamer with the best mobility the best 1v1er out of all the roamers. Thieves tried to defend it then and it was just as dumb as defending it now.

Thief was perfectly fine(strong, otherwise you would not have beaten VM) the last balance patch. After that they nerfed everything except for thief. What do you think the result is going to be like?

This is my personal gripe about thief. The fact that thief is overtuned, completely mandatory and will completely dictate the matches for futue ESL matches is obvious and agreed upon by everyone. It’s not as much of a thing in ranked qs where you can stack DHS and warriors etc but in a setting where it’s 1 class/person it’ll be very obvious that you have 0 chance without thief, literally 0

(edited by nothelseth.4621)

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

Ok so here’s the part that has yet to be defined by Helseth.

“Optimized thief”

Define optimized before I weigh in please b/c if it’s what I think you mean than this will be easy.

Right now we have 1/2 of the pro thief players weighing in vs a pro mesmer. Sind is biased towards thief b/c he plays thief and helseth is biased against thief b/c he’s always hated them since like 2013.

Please define “optimized thief”

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

imma just refer u to the edit to my post
ull agree with everything

So you are saying thieves suddenly 1v1s mesmers and eles is actually worth the time it takes? I’m pretty sure you understand that yourself, I can fight a good ele and he’ll survive a long time before I can kill him that should be enough time for anything to rotate or win the map lol, and even then I’m not sure you really can (I haven’t really tried to fight a good ele 1v1 because the amount of time it actually takes) and it would be even worse against mesmers.

And it’s funny how you bring up revenants then, you want the class to be back into the state where it can stalemate druid, kill eles, engis and do equal/teamfights yet thief is considered to OP being a + 1 role and suddenly have a good matchup against revs (rest of the MU you list are debatable and too unknown for me to say anything about)

So just let me get this straight you feel thief is too OP because it can 1v1 ele/mes(ur words) and revenants? But nerfing thief to not being able to kill those 3 classes results in thief being even more ineffective against all the other bruisers?

Ele melts to thief, ive watched densh duel drazeh for hours and thief kills ele faster than any other class. I’ve also spammed duels vs drazeh thief as a mesmer. You know how good drazeh is at thief duel MU and it’s absurd to see how optimized thief 1v1 MU chart is. You don’t see that because you insist on playing thief in the roam +1 POV only but the actual 1v1 capability of thief is horrifying.

I’ll just repeat what I said:

The class with the best mobility in the game as well as a constant access to stealth NEEDS to have a bad mu chart. You shouldnt only lose node to warrior, engi and druid because only one of these three classes can ’’almost’’ follow you. This means that in a competitive setting the team without a thief literally has 0 counterplay to a thief pushing a node. The only counter is to have a thief of your own.

This exact problem has existed in the past before with pistolwhip thief. You can’t make the roamer with the best mobility the best 1v1er out of all the roamers.

Thief was perfectly fine(strong, otherwise you would not have beaten VM) the last balance patch. After that they nerfed everything except for thief. What do you think the result is going to be like?

You basically ignore half of the questions I ask, you feel revenant with the capabilities of both doing teamfights and equal fights and having good mobility should be allowed to have good MU 1v1?

The only nerfs that happened last balance patch was mesmer and rev ye that affected thief, so you want thief to nerfed because those two classes got nerfs? Do you then agree all the sustain classes should also be brought down quite a lot then?

So the only reason you feel thief is too OP right now is cus you feel it can “MELT” eles (I’d love to see this on stream) kill mesmers (love to see this one as well) and kill revenants (could do this pre patch as well) So the only real change according to you then is that thief suddenly can 1v1 mesmers which happened after the nerfs to mesmers (still this is according to you dueling drazeh I’d love to see this duel on stream)

You also forgot DH in the mix of classes who thief can’t 1v1 and who can easily defend.

And you shout out that thief will be needed in every single comp is hilarious because you have no clue how it will be unless you actually start to scrim teams and try out different comps you know this and I know this.

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

(edited by bluri.2653)

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

Ok so here’s the part that has yet to be defined by Helseth.

“Optimized thief”

Define optimized before I weigh in please b/c if it’s what I think you mean than this will be easy.

Right now we have 1/2 of the pro thief players weighing in vs a pro mesmer. Sind is biased towards thief b/c he plays thief and helseth is biased against thief b/c he’s always hated them since like 2013.

Please define “optimized thief”

Good question,!

The image I had in my mind when writing optimized thief is basically the highest level of gameplay I know of for the class. There is a huge difference between someone being ’’ok’’ at something and someone being ’’opimized’’

For intance, people use me as a benchmark for how mesmer does in duels. Most mesmers playing vs most DHs have no chance right? However, when I play it, the ’’optimized’’, I beat 99% of the DHS out there.

Does this mean that mesmer beats DH? No, because once I face an optimized DH (drazeh) I get completelly destroyed. Like the matchup is impossible.

So I guess my definition is ‘’the best player in this matchup vs the best player in this matchup’‘. This opinion is still subject to change since new craft is found all the time, but it’s the best we got when crafting.

Drazeh (most definitely the best dueling thief in the game) melts any ele 1v1. We can use this to say that an ’’optimized’’ thief beats ele.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

Ok so here’s the part that has yet to be defined by Helseth.

“Optimized thief”

Define optimized before I weigh in please b/c if it’s what I think you mean than this will be easy.

Right now we have 1/2 of the pro thief players weighing in vs a pro mesmer. Sind is biased towards thief b/c he plays thief and helseth is biased against thief b/c he’s always hated them since like 2013.

Please define “optimized thief”

Good question,!

The image I had in my mind when writing optimized thief is basically the highest level of gameplay I know of for the class. There is a huge difference between someone being ’’ok’’ at something and someone being ’’opimized’’

For intance, people use me as a benchmark for how mesmer does in duels. Most mesmers playing vs most DHs have no chance right? However, when I play it, the ’’optimized’’, I beat 99% of the DHS out there.

Does this mean that mesmer beats DH? No, because once I face an optimized DH (drazeh) I get completelly destroyed. Like the matchup is impossible.

So I guess my definition is ‘’the best player in this matchup vs the best player in this matchup’‘. This opinion is still subject to change since new craft is found all the time, but it’s the best we got when crafting.

Drazeh (most definitely the best dueling thief in the game) melts any ele 1v1. We can use this to say that an ’’optimized’’ thief beats ele.

So your saying you are,losing duels in under a minute vs draz running the D/P dash meta build?

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Ok so here’s the part that has yet to be defined by Helseth.

“Optimized thief”

Define optimized before I weigh in please b/c if it’s what I think you mean than this will be easy.

Right now we have 1/2 of the pro thief players weighing in vs a pro mesmer. Sind is biased towards thief b/c he plays thief and helseth is biased against thief b/c he’s always hated them since like 2013.

Please define “optimized thief”

Good question,!

The image I had in my mind when writing optimized thief is basically the highest level of gameplay I know of for the class. There is a huge difference between someone being ’’ok’’ at something and someone being ’’opimized’’

For intance, people use me as a benchmark for how mesmer does in duels. Most mesmers playing vs most DHs have no chance right? However, when I play it, the ’’optimized’’, I beat 99% of the DHS out there.

Does this mean that mesmer beats DH? No, because once I face an optimized DH (drazeh) I get completelly destroyed. Like the matchup is impossible.

So I guess my definition is ‘’the best player in this matchup vs the best player in this matchup’‘. This opinion is still subject to change since new craft is found all the time, but it’s the best we got when crafting.

Drazeh (most definitely the best dueling thief in the game) melts any ele 1v1. We can use this to say that an ’’optimized’’ thief beats ele.

So you need to be top player and main the class to make it work as you describe. The moment “optimized” thief faces “optimized” class XY, it is not as “insane” as you describe anymore. OK, tnks for proving our point.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

So to move the discussion forward and provide some ideas of content for all parties, would it be an idea for having a streamed duel evening or event between various top players?

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

Funny thing is an 3sec ICD to PI would technically not make the difference in the mes duel either because I’m pretty sure you are not eating PI proccs more than every 3 sec lmao so nerfing PI still wouldn’t change thief being this godlike 1v1er suddenly

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

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Posted by: nothelseth.4621

nothelseth.4621

[/quote]

You basically ignore half of the questions I ask, you feel revenant with the capabilities of both doing teamfights and equal fights and having good mobility should be allowed to have good MU 1v1?

The only nerfs that happened last balance patch was mesmer and rev ye that affected thief, so you want thief to nerfed because those two classes got nerfs? Do you then agree all the sustain classes should also be brought down quite a lot then?

So the only reason you feel thief is too OP right now is cus you feel it can “MELT” eles (I’d love to see this on stream) kill mesmers (love to see this one as well) and kill revenants (could do this pre patch as well) So the only real change according to you then is that thief suddenly can 1v1 mesmers which happened after the nerfs to mesmers (still this is according to you dueling drazeh I’d love to see this duel on stream)

You also forgot DH in the mix of classes who thief can’t 1v1 and who can easily defend.

And you shout out that thief will be needed in every single comp is hilarious because you have no clue how it will be unless you actually start to scrim teams and try out different comps you know this and I know this.
[/quote]

1. Nobody tried to defend the mess that was revenant. Don’t put that on me. But it’s a good case to look at though; revenant was kept in line a lot by what? Mesmer. Mesmer, a class that could rival revenant in mobility, made sure that revenant couldnt be an aids side push class.

2. Thief should be nerfed along with revenant and mesmer because it’s on the same role as them and it was on a similiar level before. The tanky classes have nothing to do with this. If for instance I made the argument that improvisation is one of the dumbest traits in the game and should be reworked that’s not going to bring about a bunker meta would it? Personally speaking I find improv to be much more of a problematic trait than PI is. PI is just a stupid mechanic that shouldnt exist and would benefit into being reworked in more rewarding play, which doesnt have to be a nerf.

3. Thief does beat ele so hard that zan was able to farm denshee after he watched the duel session once. But yes, my balance gripe is that in the ESL there is not a single class other than druid which can realistically follow the thief on the map. I’ll concede DH but we both know that there is no way on earth you could replace a thief w dh. Like absolutely no way.

Thief will obviously be needed in every comp. Everyone was already looking at playing it when ToL was a thing, our team was talking about it before the lan. Calling it ’’hilarious’’ is dishonest. Saying that I need to scrim everyone to know that is dishonest. Are you going to question ele being mandatory as well?

‘’Funny thing is an 3sec ICD to PI would technically not make the difference in the mes duel either because I’m pretty sure you are not eating PI proccs more than every 3 sec lmao so nerfing PI still wouldn’t change thief being this godlike 1v1er suddenly’’

When did I suggest a 3s icd?
When did I say PI is what wins mes vs thief?
When did I say ‘’thief is a godlike 1v1er suddenly’’

I said and I quote:
Thief wins vs the MAJORITY of esl classes.
Pi is dumb BY DESIGN and promotes bad gameplay. I was on voicechat with sind on stream talking about how the concept of headshot is ruined by it since you wind up trying to spam hit interupts on anything to trigger PI effects rather than using headshot for its indended purpose. In the event of a PI nerf/rework I said that thief should have AT LEAST the same offensive power via buffs on heartseeker.
The only class that can realistically TRY to follow a thief (as in, if you dont play thief, you play this) is either druid or, which I’ll concede I didnt mention because I’m confident it wont be ESL tier, which is why I specified them as that, DH.
Thief was strong last patch and everything around thief got nerfed so obviously thief is stronger now.

(edited by nothelseth.4621)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Adolfas.2180

Adolfas.2180

Only way to counterplay thief right now is to have a thief on your own either to follow or to make your own plays. There is literally no other way.

Same could have been said about rev 10 patches ago till now, but too bad you did not care about it back then since your team had probably the best revenant in the game. It’s just pathetic to read your attempts not be biased. There is no need to even look at the thief since we haven’t tried it in a competative environment. Anyway, can’t wait to see Drazeh pushing to the node as a thief and destroying people 1×1 LUL.

Zan

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Menyus.4610

Menyus.4610

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Again, how about Drazeh, Zan, Helseth, Sind, Denshee, Rom and anyone else that feels up to it do a 1v1s streamed event between top players?

Then people can see how the 1v1s go when played “optimally” between different classes and how they all hold up. Would also make for some decent viewing and I dare say everyone will get something out of it, hopefully more subs for the top players and a more educated community.

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Menyus.4610

Menyus.4610

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Menyus.4610

Menyus.4610

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

If 2 hours a day is casual i dunno what the hell is going on….

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

kitten you make too long posts okay I’ll give you one last reply as well then.

1. You mention that every top player wants thief nerf and “every single top player” (mostly your teammates i haven’t seen anyone else from vM for example) mentions PI as the problem so don’t give me anything else here you know this too, every one in your team except drazeh mentions this. All of them mentions an ICD on PI. So in theory this wouldn’t affect the SUDDEN 1v1 capabilities against “ESL classes” thief has.

2. You say thief can 1v1 mesmer and ele. Let me tell you this – do you think 1v1 an ele for 1-2 minutes before killing it is worth the time or optimal play? One the ele shouldn’t even be in a 1v1 EVER so this whole 1v1 is weird from the start. And you also feel that ele should be able to tank any dpser forever without dying? Fighting a mesmer as DP dash thief there is no way you hold the node against a mesmer, I bet you can hold the node much longer for the thief to not have this matchup being worth a single second and not even being able to kill you, as said feel free to prove me wrong on stream.

3. You mention that thief is in the same role as mes and revenant which is again something completely wrong. Thief has only one role and that is to +1 and decap you can’t enter equal fights or teamfights meanwhile both mesmer and revs shines in these. Mesmer is not locked into a 1v1 role only, you have impact in teamfights with both moa/distort/heals/portal

4. Sure you can revamp PI all you want and again this doesn’t change our 1v1 capabilities as you say we suddenly have against some classes. Buffing heartseeker damage wise is not the solution because it’s too slow and its too telegraphed

So all in all, the whole community wants PI nerf which won’t change these 1v1’s you are talking about it will only equal to lower chance of killing bunkers. And this goes for your top players/teammates wishes too

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

(edited by bluri.2653)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

I agree

Thief
Has
No
Passives
At
All

Edit: Before someone points out only a few at best are used in the current meta build, I am fully aware of this, it doesn’t change that thief has passives that are applied with very little user interaction which is what is being complained about.

(edited by apharma.3741)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Khyan.7039

Khyan.7039

It’s funny to see when everytime something got a nerf/buff, it suddenly needs a buff/nerf or such things.

“Did people forget that a thief cannot 1v1 or team fight in spvp ?”

“The balance right now is in a pretty good spot except for rev that needs buffs.”

The OP is definitely trolling just with these statements. Thief was fine before patch and he is probably top tier now due to the recent changes. This thread is a full non-sense. Thief is fine, I don’t see the point of your thread because you’re complaining that it needs buff (indirectly), but it does not need such buff.

About revs, you still see great revs in ranked (plat+) and I don’t really see where a buff is needed. They can still “teleport” through any wall (hello kylho) with target, deals decent damage, and still have average mobility.

(edited by Khyan.7039)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

I agree

Thief
Has
No
Passives
At
All

Did I ever say Thief had no Passives? Let’s look at the post. Hmmm nope.

Nice try though, here is your Anet approved Participation Trophy.

Attachments:

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Azure The Heartless.3261

Azure The Heartless.3261

how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

We don’t need this whole game being faceroll, but I get what you’re saying.

RE: Helseth’s point

If that is the case, Thief needs a rework. ‘optimizing’ a thief is difficult in itself and involves long periods of conditioning compared to the classes it already has a bad matchup to to even function at baseline.

If a properly played thief is insane and thus needs to have a bad matchup in order to compensate for the fact that the player has devoted time and energy to BE insane with the class, you’re reducing everyone who is even marginally below that devotion line to decap bots. Thieves were just there and I am pretty sure nobody liked that.

At some point there’s going to need to be acceptance that people willing to put in the work with thief eventually earn their keep. It can’t just be “nerf thief because thief played well is insane” while anything below competitive perfection is garbage. You need to start looking into countering players instead of the class if you’re getting to that point, if that makes any sense.

Idk about anyone else, but I see something inherently wrong with deciding to weaken a class because of the performance of a specific player, when the class itself is of weak constitution. That strength should be attributed to whoever has made themselves that formidable and not taken as the guiding hand for toning down.

Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.

(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

I agree

Thief
Has
No
Passives
At
All

Edit: Before someone points out only a few at best are used in the current meta build, I am fully aware of this, it doesn’t change that thief has passives that are applied with very little user interaction which is what is being complained about.

Half of those require thief to actively attack the target and actually land an attack, those are enhancements, not passives; other half is….well you said it yourself, nobody uses them (because they are bad duhh). I don’t think you understand the definition of passive. In case of passives there is no real involvement of the player required to make those work. Here is example of real passive.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

I agree

Thief
Has
No
Passives
At
All

Did I ever say Thief had no Passives? Let’s look at the post. Hmmm nope.

Nice try though, here is your Anet approved Participation Trophy.

Yeah true enough you didn’t say thief has no passives, however I have seen people who main thief talk about the same subject matter and how passives need to go without realising their own class has quite a few themselves.

The funny thing is the passive defences a thief has in acro are all much lower cool downs and better than the equivalent traits for other classes.

@Cynz, just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean thief is free of passives and I wasn’t aware attacking a target is such a highly skillful play, especially when it involves instant cast abilities and your auto applies poison by default.

You do realise instant reflexes is a cheaper version of endure pain with lower cool down but lower uptime?

(edited by apharma.3741)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Elxdark.9702

Elxdark.9702

nerf thief plz

(edited by Elxdark.9702)

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Thief is always OP when on enemy team and always a complete liability when on my team.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Im a simple player, i play max 2 hours a day, i dont watch e-“sport” gw2, i dont care about top tier player problems, im atleast 35% of the player base of gw2, how about balancing the game to my skill level? And not to some special snowflake kids playing 28 hours a day…..

game is already balanced around you…. look at all passives from warrior, druid literary lets the game play for him

Hope this was some advanced sarcasm

Nope it is true, the amount of Passive Defenses and offenses in this game as well as all the kindly AoE Spam, and skills that are both Heavily offensive and Defensive at the same time are designed around Casual players otherwise they would have designed skills around PvP instead and have more active game play and not have skills so frontloaded with effects. There are classes that have severely low Skill floors and they essentially pilot themselves and get carried by passive defenses.

Then the reverse side of this look at all the competitive Game types they have no real rewards for performing well, the Rewards are designed to benefit Casual players more so than the competitive players, hell when a player feels like they can’t achieve something Anet instantly hops to and complies most recent example AP points for the Top 250 on Leader board, previous example Legendary Backpiece from PvP.

I agree

Thief
Has
No
Passives
At
All

Did I ever say Thief had no Passives? Let’s look at the post. Hmmm nope.

Nice try though, here is your Anet approved Participation Trophy.

Yeah true enough you didn’t say thief has no passives, however I have seen people who main thief talk about the same subject matter and how passives need to go without realising their own class has quite a few themselves.

The funny thing is the passive defences a thief has in acro are all much lower cool downs and better than the equivalent traits for other classes.

@Cynz, just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean thief is free of passives and I wasn’t aware attacking a target is such a highly skillful play, especially when it involves instant cast abilities and your auto applies poison by default.

You do realise instant reflexes is a cheaper version of endure pain with lower cool down but lower uptime?

When did i say thief has no passives? My original point was that game is plagued by passives because devs apparently wanted to make this game more accessible. It really puzzles me how it ended up me supposedly saying that thief has no passives….. assume much?

As far as landing attacks goes, it really depends on condition. E.g. immob proc is kind of useless vs classes with high uptime on resistance/condi cleanse. In many cases i can’t attack scrapper as thief because i will end up taking more dmg than i deal.

I am well aware how instant reflexes work, what is your point?

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Ok so here’s the part that has yet to be defined by Helseth.

“Optimized thief”

Define optimized before I weigh in please b/c if it’s what I think you mean than this will be easy.

Right now we have 1/2 of the pro thief players weighing in vs a pro mesmer. Sind is biased towards thief b/c he plays thief and helseth is biased against thief b/c he’s always hated them since like 2013.

Please define “optimized thief”

Good question,!

The image I had in my mind when writing optimized thief is basically the highest level of gameplay I know of for the class. There is a huge difference between someone being ’’ok’’ at something and someone being ’’opimized’’

For intance, people use me as a benchmark for how mesmer does in duels. Most mesmers playing vs most DHs have no chance right? However, when I play it, the ’’optimized’’, I beat 99% of the DHS out there.

Does this mean that mesmer beats DH? No, because once I face an optimized DH (drazeh) I get completelly destroyed. Like the matchup is impossible.

So I guess my definition is ‘’the best player in this matchup vs the best player in this matchup’‘. This opinion is still subject to change since new craft is found all the time, but it’s the best we got when crafting.

Drazeh (most definitely the best dueling thief in the game) melts any ele 1v1. We can use this to say that an ’’optimized’’ thief beats ele.

I agree, though, I wouldn’t say that a team without another thief = a team that can’t counter an “optimized” thief when node roaming for 1v1. Unless you meant a +1 by a thief.

This thread, thieves are only as OP as a ToF from DH… only hurts if you let it.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: DrDivine.5378

DrDivine.5378

I don’t play thief I suck at it, but I don’t think their OP, OP is not the same as being good.

They have great damage but also have notable weaknesses (some of them you already mentioned.) I’ve never had a moment where a thief was just this unstoppable force, I’ve been backstabbed but it was all about their good timing.

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: victor.9472

victor.9472

My main is a thief.
I remember when start playing guild wars 2 I spent contless hours watching streams and ytb videos studying gameplay and figuring out combos and builds and improving my reflexes on evasion and countering other classes.

Now I can land several combos and read other classes applying interrupt right on time in most of cases.
This makes my thief hit hard and kill new players in few seconds.

Then I wonder how many of those players are flooding forum asking for nerfing considering they have not even taken 1/3 the effort I had to learn a class…

Hope this thread is not the case, right ?

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: abaddon.3290

abaddon.3290

kitten you make too long posts okay I’ll give you one last reply as well then.

2. You say thief can 1v1 mesmer and ele. Let me tell you this – do you think 1v1 an ele for 1-2 minutes before killing it is worth the time or optimal play? One the ele shouldn’t even be in a 1v1 EVER so this whole 1v1 is weird from the start. And you also feel that ele should be able to tank any dpser forever without dying? Fighting a mesmer as DP dash thief there is no way you hold the node against a mesmer, I bet you can hold the node much longer for the thief to not have this matchup being worth a single second and not even being able to kill you, as said feel free to prove me wrong on stream.

im sorry but a full bunker class shouldnt be instakilled by thief at all. taking 1 or 2 mins should be a minnimum. ele isnt going to be able to kill you. so you shouldnt be killing it easily 1v1 at all. you call instagibbing a class completely specced for tanking balanced? thats your end goal?

im bad at sarcasm

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

kitten you make too long posts okay I’ll give you one last reply as well then.

2. You say thief can 1v1 mesmer and ele. Let me tell you this – do you think 1v1 an ele for 1-2 minutes before killing it is worth the time or optimal play? One the ele shouldn’t even be in a 1v1 EVER so this whole 1v1 is weird from the start. And you also feel that ele should be able to tank any dpser forever without dying? Fighting a mesmer as DP dash thief there is no way you hold the node against a mesmer, I bet you can hold the node much longer for the thief to not have this matchup being worth a single second and not even being able to kill you, as said feel free to prove me wrong on stream.

im sorry but a full bunker class shouldnt be instakilled by thief at all. taking 1 or 2 mins should be a minnimum. ele isnt going to be able to kill you. so you shouldnt be killing it easily 1v1 at all. you call instagibbing a class completely specced for tanking balanced? thats your end goal?

Point out where he said he wanted to instagib Ele, no where in his posts has he inferred to it or Stated as such.

Reasons why thief is not OP

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Posted by: abaddon.3290

abaddon.3290

kitten you make too long posts okay I’ll give you one last reply as well then.

2. You say thief can 1v1 mesmer and ele. Let me tell you this – do you think 1v1 an ele for 1-2 minutes before killing it is worth the time or optimal play? One the ele shouldn’t even be in a 1v1 EVER so this whole 1v1 is weird from the start. And you also feel that ele should be able to tank any dpser forever without dying? Fighting a mesmer as DP dash thief there is no way you hold the node against a mesmer, I bet you can hold the node much longer for the thief to not have this matchup being worth a single second and not even being able to kill you, as said feel free to prove me wrong on stream.

im sorry but a full bunker class shouldnt be instakilled by thief at all. taking 1 or 2 mins should be a minnimum. ele isnt going to be able to kill you. so you shouldnt be killing it easily 1v1 at all. you call instagibbing a class completely specced for tanking balanced? thats your end goal?

Point out where he said he wanted to instagib Ele, no where in his posts has he inferred to it or Stated as such.

hes talking like taking 1 or 2 mins to kill a ele as a thief is a problem. the alternative is instagibbing them.

im bad at sarcasm

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Posted by: Rizigmar.2681

Rizigmar.2681

ITT: Thieves losing their marbles when a ESL player calls thief OP. This is a pretty golden thread.

Thieves are OP in their own respect, general mobility and combat mobility is nearly unmatched, with signet and endurance gain traits along with vigor, can dodge like seven times in a row excluding attack and defense at the same time abilities from various weapon sets (Pistol Whip, Shadow Shot, Vault, Death Blossom, Debilitating Arc, Bound). Also the hardest class to LoS unless you’re abusing anti shadowstep LoS areas.

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Posted by: bluri.2653

bluri.2653

kitten you make too long posts okay I’ll give you one last reply as well then.

2. You say thief can 1v1 mesmer and ele. Let me tell you this – do you think 1v1 an ele for 1-2 minutes before killing it is worth the time or optimal play? One the ele shouldn’t even be in a 1v1 EVER so this whole 1v1 is weird from the start. And you also feel that ele should be able to tank any dpser forever without dying? Fighting a mesmer as DP dash thief there is no way you hold the node against a mesmer, I bet you can hold the node much longer for the thief to not have this matchup being worth a single second and not even being able to kill you, as said feel free to prove me wrong on stream.

im sorry but a full bunker class shouldnt be instakilled by thief at all. taking 1 or 2 mins should be a minnimum. ele isnt going to be able to kill you. so you shouldnt be killing it easily 1v1 at all. you call instagibbing a class completely specced for tanking balanced? thats your end goal?

Dude where have I ever stated that we should instagib ele? All i stated is that it’s possible to kill an ele after a long time which shouldn’t happen in any game (ele shouldn’t ever be stuck in a 1v1 even less so against a thief) and even then it’s not worth the time it takes, but I disagree that supports should never be NOT killable but it should as you said take a long time. So please stop putting words in my mouth.

Sindrener – Rank55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

Reasons why thief is not OP

in PvP

Posted by: Zintrothen.1056

Zintrothen.1056

…nobody is squishy with a bunker ele next to them.

Except the “bunker” Ele. Support Tempest spec isn’t a bunker. It’s actually incredibly squishy without its CDs. Every profession is actually very squishy without their CDs because there are no more tanky amulets, aside from Paladin’s. So, just like every profession, Elementalists die quickly without CDs, and the only way for them to survive without CDs is to heal, which is easy to interrupt, and to kite, which is impossible with a THIEF around. That’s right. KILL THE ELE! Force it away and the rest of the enemy team will drop like flies once all their CDs are gone too.

The whole idea that Thief isn’t OP simply because it “can’t 1v1 or team fight” is 100% false. There are plenty of matchups that Thief beats. Thieves can clobber any Necro 1v1 as long as Shroud can be forced, and Eles can be killed in seconds against any decent Thief who knows how to Steal Earth Overload and headshot heals and other Overloads. How about Zerker Warrior? All a Thief has to do is stay at range. If the Warrior charges, the Thief can literally just dodge a couple times or teleport to a better position with ease.

Let’s look at team fights. A Thief doesn’t need to be sitting in the middle of a fight because its burst is high enough to wait for a low HP target and burst it down nearly instantly. If a Thief had this bursting capability while also being able to tank team fights, Thief would absolutely be the #1 most OP profession. I don’t want to make a massive post about all the problems with Thieves, so I won’t. I’m just disproving that Thieves aren’t OP just because they don’t thrive in 1v1s and team fights. They can actually do pretty well in them if careful enough, and the areas they do thrive at, they are godly.