Guild Wars 2

forum bug /15 charrs

Emdrix.6124:

So that leaves thief with the role of decap and +1. Now can a thief really +1 effectlvely against top tier players than know how to kite and jumping puzzle on a bunker build? Nope. You cant kill a good engi even in a 1v2, same goes for druid. Because its too easy to reset yourself on a bunker build and troll the thief 1v2 and waste his time.

Where as I mostly agree with your post, this part bugged me a little.
Because no offense, but if you can’t kill an engi or druid in a 2v1, as a thief, you or your mate fighting with you, are plain bad.

sophiewhite.3149:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

sophiewhite.3149:

bluri.2653:

kitten you make too long posts okay I’ll give you one last reply as well then.

2. You say thief can 1v1 mesmer and ele. Let me tell you this – do you think 1v1 an ele for 1-2 minutes before killing it is worth the time or optimal play? One the ele shouldn’t even be in a 1v1 EVER so this whole 1v1 is weird from the start. And you also feel that ele should be able to tank any dpser forever without dying? Fighting a mesmer as DP dash thief there is no way you hold the node against a mesmer, I bet you can hold the node much longer for the thief to not have this matchup being worth a single second and not even being able to kill you, as said feel free to prove me wrong on stream.

im sorry but a full bunker class shouldnt be instakilled by thief at all. taking 1 or 2 mins should be a minnimum. ele isnt going to be able to kill you. so you shouldnt be killing it easily 1v1 at all. you call instagibbing a class completely specced for tanking balanced? thats your end goal?

Point out where he said he wanted to instagib Ele, no where in his posts has he inferred to it or Stated as such.

hes talking like taking 1 or 2 mins to kill a ele as a thief is a problem. the alternative is instagibbing them.

You totally missed the point. Maybe read the thread before you post.

Just my 2 cents, from a platinum 2 eu pleb not even in top 250.

The main issue i have toward thief is that there is no reliable counter to it exept another thief.
And when i say ‘counter’, i don’t mean in fights, there is plenty of classes that can effectively counter thief in 1v1, 2v2, or teamfights.
What i’m talking about is rotations. There is no way to counter thief rotations around the map. There is no way to punish a thief’s rotations. The only class that can follow a thief around the map is revenant, but thief heavily counters rev and right now, the only way to outrotate thief is by playing thief.
Thief has some decent matchups in 1v1, has insane +1 capabilities and is one of the worst teamfighters, but nothing comes even close to the amount of freedom they have when it comes to engaging/disengaging a fight.

To fix this issue, we could shave thief’s mobility, but then it would need better teamfight potential, or make thief have equal footing to rev in 1v1, or make more classes able to follow thief’s rotations. (kitten , i’d love to have an ele with thief’s mobility, and yeah, that would be op af but i don’t care !)

Spoichiche.1290:

Just my 2 cents, from a platinum 2 eu pleb not even in top 250.

The main issue i have toward thief is that there is no reliable counter to it exept another thief.
And when i say ‘counter’, i don’t mean in fights, there is plenty of classes that can effectively counter thief in 1v1, 2v2, or teamfights.
What i’m talking about is rotations. There is no way to counter thief rotations around the map. There is no way to punish a thief’s rotations. The only class that can follow a thief around the map is revenant, but thief heavily counters rev and right now, the only way to outrotate thief is by playing thief.
Thief has some decent matchups in 1v1, has insane +1 capabilities and is one of the worst teamfighters, but nothing comes even close to the amount of freedom they have when it comes to engaging/disengaging a fight.

To fix this issue, we could shave thief’s mobility, but then it would need better teamfight potential, or make thief have equal footing to rev in 1v1, or make more classes able to follow thief’s rotations. (kitten , i’d love to have an ele with thief’s mobility, and yeah, that would be op af but i don’t care !)

From what I have seen in all the streams from the last Pro league and what top tier players stream, proper rotation Counters Thieves decaps and classes like Druid and Mesmer can also help hinder Thief Decaps they can move between point and disengage quiet easily, hell whenever Portal is off CD a Mesmer can babysit a point without even being there. It’s not as much doom and gloom people seem to portray it as.

Alot of what the op said is not true and is a myth. This game is a long way from being solved due to the fact there is literally no esports scene. Anyone with moba or fps experience will know what i mean, there is no gw2 pro community with players so amazing. Look at the fact some of the best players dont even use things like fast cast which automatically puts people below skill cap.

Either way, this means alot of myths have emerged such as thief is not good in team fights. Thief is great in team fights as when pressured people kite then the thief can finish them easily. The problem is thieves have an obsession with decapping after getting 1 kill in a team fight.

Secondly thief can kill anything 1v1 and should never die if played correctly. Imagine thks game had truely elite gamers playing it. I know this isnt the case but they would break thief. So it is ironic seeing the l2p arguements as if people are some gaming gods. I would love to see some real pros come over from dota for a year just to see how broken they could show things as.

Everyone in gw2 sucks. We are all bad to differing degrees. So saying it should be balanced around the top tier is stupid as the top tier doesnt represent facts. I also dont believe thief is bad at the top tier of gw2 anyway. I think it is the best class at all tiers and that is by grinding up from 1040 rating in ranked.

Thief is the best 1v1 class in the game, trust me. Look at their damage and sustain. Nobody can match it. Make the best 1v1 class in the game also have huge mobility and its an issue. For me the only 2 classes i cannot beat ever 1v1 is mesmer and thief.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Alot of what the op said is not true and is a myth. This game is a long way from being solved due to the fact there is literally no esports scene. Anyone with moba or fps experience will know what i mean, there is no gw2 pro community with players so amazing. Look at the fact some of the best players dont even use things like fast cast which automatically puts people below skill cap.

Either way, this means alot of myths have emerged such as thief is not good in team fights. Thief is great in team fights as when pressured people kite then the thief can finish them easily. The problem is thieves have an obsession with decapping after getting 1 kill in a team fight.

Secondly thief can kill anything 1v1 and should never die if played correctly. Imagine thks game had truely elite gamers playing it. I know this isnt the case but they would break thief. So it is ironic seeing the l2p arguements as if people are some gaming gods. I would love to see some real pros come over from dota for a year just to see how broken they could show things as.

Everyone in gw2 sucks. We are all bad to differing degrees. So saying it should be balanced around the top tier is stupid as the top tier doesnt represent facts. I also dont believe thief is bad at the top tier of gw2 anyway. I think it is the best class at all tiers and that is by grinding up from 1040 rating in ranked.

Thief is the best 1v1 class in the game, trust me. Look at their damage and sustain. Nobody can match it. Make the best 1v1 class in the game also have huge mobility and its an issue. For me the only 2 classes i cannot beat ever 1v1 is mesmer and thief.

I was about to give you 10/10 but then you failed me, Henry.

Shadowstep.6049:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Alot of what the op said is not true and is a myth. This game is a long way from being solved due to the fact there is literally no esports scene. Anyone with moba or fps experience will know what i mean, there is no gw2 pro community with players so amazing. Look at the fact some of the best players dont even use things like fast cast which automatically puts people below skill cap.

Either way, this means alot of myths have emerged such as thief is not good in team fights. Thief is great in team fights as when pressured people kite then the thief can finish them easily. The problem is thieves have an obsession with decapping after getting 1 kill in a team fight.

Secondly thief can kill anything 1v1 and should never die if played correctly. Imagine thks game had truely elite gamers playing it. I know this isnt the case but they would break thief. So it is ironic seeing the l2p arguements as if people are some gaming gods. I would love to see some real pros come over from dota for a year just to see how broken they could show things as.

Everyone in gw2 sucks. We are all bad to differing degrees. So saying it should be balanced around the top tier is stupid as the top tier doesnt represent facts. I also dont believe thief is bad at the top tier of gw2 anyway. I think it is the best class at all tiers and that is by grinding up from 1040 rating in ranked.

Thief is the best 1v1 class in the game, trust me. Look at their damage and sustain. Nobody can match it. Make the best 1v1 class in the game also have huge mobility and its an issue. For me the only 2 classes i cannot beat ever 1v1 is mesmer and thief.

I was about to give you 10/10 but then you failed me, Henry.

Poor Henry… Odd how thieves are ‘the best 1v1 class’, where do I buy those?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Alot of what the op said is not true and is a myth. This game is a long way from being solved due to the fact there is literally no esports scene. Anyone with moba or fps experience will know what i mean, there is no gw2 pro community with players so amazing. Look at the fact some of the best players dont even use things like fast cast which automatically puts people below skill cap.

Either way, this means alot of myths have emerged such as thief is not good in team fights. Thief is great in team fights as when pressured people kite then the thief can finish them easily. The problem is thieves have an obsession with decapping after getting 1 kill in a team fight.

Secondly thief can kill anything 1v1 and should never die if played correctly. Imagine thks game had truely elite gamers playing it. I know this isnt the case but they would break thief. So it is ironic seeing the l2p arguements as if people are some gaming gods. I would love to see some real pros come over from dota for a year just to see how broken they could show things as.

Everyone in gw2 sucks. We are all bad to differing degrees. So saying it should be balanced around the top tier is stupid as the top tier doesnt represent facts. I also dont believe thief is bad at the top tier of gw2 anyway. I think it is the best class at all tiers and that is by grinding up from 1040 rating in ranked.

Thief is the best 1v1 class in the game, trust me. Look at their damage and sustain. Nobody can match it. Make the best 1v1 class in the game also have huge mobility and its an issue. For me the only 2 classes i cannot beat ever 1v1 is mesmer and thief.

Tell me you just didnt call thief the best 1vs1 class. Are we playing the same game? I also liked how u added the trust me thingy there. Thief sustain, ohboi ohboi ohboi.

The main issue with thief is pulmonary impact does the same damage as a backstab from behind. It gives players incentive to spam head shot for pulmonary impact procs and promotes brainless game play, rewarding interrupting random animations rather than key skills. And its fine if you spam headshot because even if you dont get some pulm burst damage off you will be charging lead attacks for your massively buffed auto attack which requires no initiative.

I’m not saying thief should be nerfed though, just that this series of balance changes and bad design on pulmonary make for some poor gameplay (but this is fine because every other class is at least this mindless to play, and thief only gets more difficult in higher tier games). At most pulm should get like a 15% dmg reduction, but saying that thief beats ele in a 1v1 is besides the point. Of course you’re going to kill something eventually that can’t counter pressure you, but if anything rotates in the thief is susceptible to instantly dying or having a terrible 2v2 match up.

I agree with helseth that PI has bad design, but dueling in a controlled situation does not make thief a good 1v1er. If the enemy team has a thief and your thief tries to 1v1 anything it can just instantly die. Are we forgetting how fragile thief is? I mained necro in scrims before ToL and I could easily counter pressure thieves with instant swaps. Maybe a look at signet of agility is necessary because it makes thief too safe to have 11 dodges. Signet of agility is mandatory on the meta DD build in competitive environment, giving you self sustain, team support, and damage increase. It does seem like helseth is afraid that the best thief in the game wont be on his team though.

In other words even if thief has some good match ups vs meta builds it cannot risk or afford to put itself in that kind of role. And all the other classes that usually take 1v1s win that matchup anyway (ranger, engi, warrior, DH, mesmer is iffy). Thief is still balanced by its fragility and lack of sustained damage. If anything needs to be changed its the amount of dodges thief has by looking at signet of agility.

P.S. remove acrobatics’ ability to perma dodge, its uninteractive and annoying.

PI needs a big fat nerf. CD please

It all makes sense now.

Thief is not OP, because it takes time to kill things it kills…

if thief is so OP why people dont go play 1 and steam roll through sPvP?
im playing thief but if i could enjoy mesmer or DH or even engi id play em cus they are far better..
mesmer is just easy mode cupcake huehue i put condi and i go invul / other rotations bullcrap (and they people say condi thief is aids)
DH just bunkers everything and slams down kittened traps all over the place.
engi is just fun.

thief would be OP if we could actually join in on team fights, but we cant cus of condi and random dmg flying around we are dead in matter of seconds with our mad amount of cleanses and invul we have available.

Annabel.5127:

Where was all this QQ months ago?

Thief hasn’t changed, and the only thing that has is players mentalities.

Every non-thief, non-warrior class has received massive nerfs which is an indirect buff to thief and warrior. One could argue that reaper hasn’t been nerfed for a while as well, but it has always been countered by daredevil, so it doesn’t matter.

Annabel.5127:

Erzian.5218:

Annabel.5127:

Where was all this QQ months ago?

Thief hasn’t changed, and the only thing that has is players mentalities.

Every non-thief, non-warrior class has received massive nerfs which is an indirect buff to thief and warrior. One could argue that reaper hasn’t been nerfed for a while as well, but it has always been countered by daredevil, so it doesn’t matter.

Mesmer did not receive what anybody would call ’ a massive nerf ’ it switched to sages amulet from carrion to compensate for how healing power scales with it’s trait and a slightly longer shield cooldown. my point is this particular matchup of thief vs mesmer has not changed, which is why I said I consider the basis for the nerf ridiculous.

Is there some other matchup thief used to lose that it now wins?? not warrior, not engi, not druid, not dragonhunter.
The ‘massive nerfs’ you talk about have not given thief the capability to 1v1 any of its prior hard counters.

Like I said, only players like you who have had their mentality changed based on what they read or hear from other players suddenly think thief needs to be nerfed.

So I’ll ask again — if nothing has fundamentally changed, where was the QQ months ago?

exactly, it didn’t exist. why? because thief isn’t broken, Helseth just doesnt want to worry about good thieves, and bronze forum warrior kids need something new to cry about after losing their ranked q.

Pretty much this^^

Just like argument claiming that thieves prevent players from using certain builds or thief is mandatory, yada yada. Except in season 1, when nobody played thief, players still didn’t use those builds.

Annabel.5127:

Erzian.5218:

Annabel.5127:

Where was all this QQ months ago?

Thief hasn’t changed, and the only thing that has is players mentalities.

Every non-thief, non-warrior class has received massive nerfs which is an indirect buff to thief and warrior. One could argue that reaper hasn’t been nerfed for a while as well, but it has always been countered by daredevil, so it doesn’t matter.

Mesmer did not receive what anybody would call ’ a massive nerf ’ it switched to sages amulet from carrion to compensate for how healing power scales with it’s trait and a slightly longer shield cooldown. my point is this particular matchup of thief vs mesmer has not changed, which is why I said I consider the basis for the nerf ridiculous.

Is there some other matchup thief used to lose that it now wins?? not warrior, not engi, not druid, not dragonhunter.
The ‘massive nerfs’ you talk about have not given thief the capability to 1v1 any of its prior hard counters.

Like I said, only players like you who have had their mentality changed based on what they read or hear from other players suddenly think thief needs to be nerfed.

So I’ll ask again — if nothing has fundamentally changed, where was the QQ months ago?

exactly, it didn’t exist. why? because thief isn’t broken, Helseth just doesnt want to worry about good thieves, and bronze forum warrior kids need something new to cry about after losing their ranked q.

This isnt about helseth. Its obvious thief is too good. Mesmer and warrior are also too good but they arent like thief. Thief is vastly op. Mesmer is strong but whatever. In an ideal world it should be nerfed but its not urgent like thief which ruins the game.

Just because helseth is toxic af, it doesnt mean thief shouldnt be nerfed. Try and listen to the logic and ignore the messenger

This argument about mobilty, duh…thief!!! The whole point is not to be ‘caught’ theving/stealing/burglary and when they do they either get screwed over and have to flee (failed) or get caught and screwed over and die (failed again) it’s not the players fault that they have no any other choice but to port away. Will you just stand there and let your self get killed?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

This argument about mobilty, duh…thief!!! The whole point is not to be ‘caught’ theving/stealing/burglary and when they do they either get screwed over and have to flee (failed) or get caught and screwed over and die (failed again) it’s not the players fault that they have no any other choice but to port away. Will you just stand there and let your self get killed?

To be fair I think it’s just poor design from ANet about thief tbh. Would have been better to just straight up call it assassin but shift more of the balance away from mobility and more to an excellent 1v1 class that scales poorly with numbers.

They could even rename the resource from initiative to energy….

apharma.3741:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

This argument about mobilty, duh…thief!!! The whole point is not to be ‘caught’ theving/stealing/burglary and when they do they either get screwed over and have to flee (failed) or get caught and screwed over and die (failed again) it’s not the players fault that they have no any other choice but to port away. Will you just stand there and let your self get killed?

To be fair I think it’s just poor design from ANet about thief tbh. Would have been better to just straight up call it assassin but shift more of the balance away from mobility and more to an excellent 1v1 class that scales poorly with numbers.

They could even rename the resource from initiative to energy….

What you did there I see it.

Annabel.5127:

So I’ll ask again — if nothing has fundamentally changed, where was the QQ months ago?

exactly, it didn’t exist. why? because thief isn’t broken, Helseth just doesnt want to worry about good thieves, and bronze forum warrior kids need something new to cry about after losing their ranked q.

The revenant, the class that was blatantly overpowered and has overshadowed thief (and other classes), has been nerfed so hard, that thief is now the best roaming/+1 class in the game again.
It has nothing to do with a change in mentality (in fact many have people have argued that thief is op, long before HoT), but with a change in the meta game because of the more recent balance updates.

I just wish I could actually be as successful as easily as all these new “thief OP” whiners claim because I have to work significantly harder for my wins on thief than I do as guard. Oh, but then…nerf guard too.

but a a sin diddn’t excel in 1v1 in the first place, it assassinated people lol, it ganked/1shot’d then escaped.

I’ve mained guardian since launch and decided to pick up playing thief after some rediculous matches that a singular theif pretty much won for their team.

The reality is, with thieves current mobility you literally cannot punish their rotations, but they can guaranteed punish the opposing teams bad rotations.

To me it’s a matter of risk. If a Guardian rotates poorly, it’s just about a guaranteed death and significant loss toward victory. So every rotation matters and needs to be made with good judgement.

With a thief, their is no real risk except if you get caught by another thief that you can’t beat. If you rotated badly, just escape and move onto the next point. You’ll find a favorable situation fairly quickly if you have good judgement.

Going from playing guardian where every rotation is a matter of life and death to theif where it’s just this thing you do has been very interesting. Do I think they’re mobility should be brought down to Guardians level? No. But being it down where their is some level of risk of loss for a bad rotation.

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

I’ve mained guardian since launch and decided to pick up playing thief after some rediculous matches that a singular theif pretty much won for their team.

The reality is, with thieves current mobility you literally cannot punish their rotations, but they can guaranteed punish the opposing teams bad rotations.

To me it’s a matter of risk. If a Guardian rotates poorly, it’s just about a guaranteed death and significant loss toward victory. So every rotation matters and needs to be made with good judgement.

With a thief, their is no real risk except if you get caught by another thief that you can’t beat. If you rotated badly, just escape and move onto the next point. You’ll find a favorable situation fairly quickly if you have good judgement.

Going from playing guardian where every rotation is a matter of life and death to theif where it’s just this thing you do has been very interesting. Do I think they’re mobility should be brought down to Guardians level? No. But being it down where their is some level of risk of loss for a bad rotation.

Bahahaha life or death on Guardian, where it is literally carried by all the blocks and instant cast heals on the meta build while also being able to pressure a point. And there is risk for bad rotation when he enemy team plays smart, because You can’t balance around potatoes, Otherwise you get all the passives in game. Let’s see Thief has the most hardcounters in game.

And Thief is highly dependent on the teammates being able to hold a point or not die instantly, otherwise their decaps mean nothing. Maybe if Anet balanced all the classes and stopped relegating Thief to Decap/+1 as stated by Devs that’s what they want the Thief to be in PvP, while other classes can fill those roles as well as team fight effectively and 1v1 other classes effectively, maybe if they actually took PvP balance seriously they can take a look at Thief mobility but right now that’s not the case.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

I’ve mained guardian since launch and decided to pick up playing thief after some rediculous matches that a singular theif pretty much won for their team.

The reality is, with thieves current mobility you literally cannot punish their rotations, but they can guaranteed punish the opposing teams bad rotations.

To me it’s a matter of risk. If a Guardian rotates poorly, it’s just about a guaranteed death and significant loss toward victory. So every rotation matters and needs to be made with good judgement.

With a thief, their is no real risk except if you get caught by another thief that you can’t beat. If you rotated badly, just escape and move onto the next point. You’ll find a favorable situation fairly quickly if you have good judgement.

Going from playing guardian where every rotation is a matter of life and death to theif where it’s just this thing you do has been very interesting. Do I think they’re mobility should be brought down to Guardians level? No. But being it down where their is some level of risk of loss for a bad rotation.

Bahahaha life or death on Guardian, where it is literally carried by all the blocks and instant cast heals on the meta build while also being able to pressure a point. And there is risk for bad rotation when he enemy team plays smart, because You can’t balance around potatoes, Otherwise you get all the passives in game. Let’s see Thief has the most hardcounters in game.

And Thief is highly dependent on the teammates being able to hold a point or not die instantly, otherwise their decaps mean nothing. Maybe if Anet balanced all the classes and stopped relegating Thief to Decap/+1 as stated by Devs that’s what they want the Thief to be in PvP, while other classes can fill those roles as well as team fight effectively and 1v1 other classes effectively, maybe if they actually took PvP balance seriously they can take a look at Thief mobility but right now that’s not the case.

thief can never have teamfight capability, to give team fight capability they had to complete rework thief and lose all the evades.
defenses had to be balanced between capability of evading hits and capability of soaking damage, all thief defenses are based on evade, they have to get 0 capability of soaking damage and that means they cant stay in large fight cuz every lost bullet(aoe) kills them the same is the necro problem they have the most capability of soaking damage (the biggest hp bar and the extra lifeforce bar) and they get in “reward” 0 evade capability
a class that its hard to hit cuz a kittenload of evades had to die when finally gets a pair of succesfull hits and a class that can soak damage have to facetank all their damage cuz they cant evade, its a very simple thing
crying for teamfight capabilitys in actual thief design is crying for a inmortal OP thief big damage, big mobility, incredible dodges… and big hp or blocks or resistance…. no thanks

megilandil.7506:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

I’ve mained guardian since launch and decided to pick up playing thief after some rediculous matches that a singular theif pretty much won for their team.

The reality is, with thieves current mobility you literally cannot punish their rotations, but they can guaranteed punish the opposing teams bad rotations.

To me it’s a matter of risk. If a Guardian rotates poorly, it’s just about a guaranteed death and significant loss toward victory. So every rotation matters and needs to be made with good judgement.

With a thief, their is no real risk except if you get caught by another thief that you can’t beat. If you rotated badly, just escape and move onto the next point. You’ll find a favorable situation fairly quickly if you have good judgement.

Going from playing guardian where every rotation is a matter of life and death to theif where it’s just this thing you do has been very interesting. Do I think they’re mobility should be brought down to Guardians level? No. But being it down where their is some level of risk of loss for a bad rotation.

Bahahaha life or death on Guardian, where it is literally carried by all the blocks and instant cast heals on the meta build while also being able to pressure a point. And there is risk for bad rotation when he enemy team plays smart, because You can’t balance around potatoes, Otherwise you get all the passives in game. Let’s see Thief has the most hardcounters in game.

And Thief is highly dependent on the teammates being able to hold a point or not die instantly, otherwise their decaps mean nothing. Maybe if Anet balanced all the classes and stopped relegating Thief to Decap/+1 as stated by Devs that’s what they want the Thief to be in PvP, while other classes can fill those roles as well as team fight effectively and 1v1 other classes effectively, maybe if they actually took PvP balance seriously they can take a look at Thief mobility but right now that’s not the case.

thief can never have teamfight capability, to give team fight capability they had to complete rework thief and lose all the evades.
defenses had to be balanced between capability of evading hits and capability of soaking damage, all thief defenses are based on evade, they have to get 0 capability of soaking damage and that means they cant stay in large fight cuz every lost bullet(aoe) kills them the same is the necro problem they have the most capability of soaking damage (the biggest hp bar and the extra lifeforce bar) and they get in “reward” 0 evade capability
a class that its hard to hit cuz a kittenload of evades had to die when finally gets a pair of succesfull hits and a class that can soak damage have to facetank all their damage cuz they cant evade, its a very simple thing
crying for teamfight capabilitys in actual thief design is crying for a inmortal OP thief big damage, big mobility, incredible dodges… and big hp or blocks or resistance…. no thanks

Apparently you didn’t understand what i said, people complain about Thief excelling at its only role, yet fail to realize other classes can fill the same role but also Team fight and 1v1 with more impact and reliability, yet want to take the Thief’s onlyy role away from them, does that make more sense? So if they nerf Thief’s only role then they better back it up with giving them team fight capabilities. So many people whine and complain but don’t look at everything as a whole they like to view things in a vacuum.

Annabel.5127:

It’s really a shame all this ‘nerf thief’ talk stems from a single person in the pvp scene who uses his enormous reputation to influence future balance patches and create a tide of honestly absurd thief complaints. Where was all this QQ months ago?

Thief hasn’t changed, and the only thing that has is players mentalities.

To suggest nerfing pulmonary on the basis that “thief beats condi mesmer” is simply ridiculous. Since the removal of mercenary amulet, thief has always had the potential to beat condi mesmer, but nobody was crying about it – why? because it is unreliable, takes too much time, and 99% of the time the thief is better off creating an outnumbered situation elsewhere rather than spending 2-3 minutes attempting to 1v1 the mesmer on their node. That’s why we rarely see it happen in top tier play.

" TLDR " People need to learn to think for themselves and perhaps take some of the things their favorite streamer says with a grain of salt.

takes to looooooong time,and can do something better in another spot…
are poor justifications, the thing is thief can or not kill these classes not all classes can be killed in a pair of surprise hits, claiming that takes long time etc is not about class balance is about in game strategy class balance things is in hands of equally skilled players class A NEVER can kill class B issues

Maybe what thf needs is not a mobility counter but another class that can compete with a thf for the same role and not be an upgrade to thf like rev was before the nerfs. I also think we need more builds that can compete with mesmer and ele for their roles.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

megilandil.7506:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

I’ve mained guardian since launch and decided to pick up playing thief after some rediculous matches that a singular theif pretty much won for their team.

The reality is, with thieves current mobility you literally cannot punish their rotations, but they can guaranteed punish the opposing teams bad rotations.

To me it’s a matter of risk. If a Guardian rotates poorly, it’s just about a guaranteed death and significant loss toward victory. So every rotation matters and needs to be made with good judgement.

With a thief, their is no real risk except if you get caught by another thief that you can’t beat. If you rotated badly, just escape and move onto the next point. You’ll find a favorable situation fairly quickly if you have good judgement.

Going from playing guardian where every rotation is a matter of life and death to theif where it’s just this thing you do has been very interesting. Do I think they’re mobility should be brought down to Guardians level? No. But being it down where their is some level of risk of loss for a bad rotation.

Bahahaha life or death on Guardian, where it is literally carried by all the blocks and instant cast heals on the meta build while also being able to pressure a point. And there is risk for bad rotation when he enemy team plays smart, because You can’t balance around potatoes, Otherwise you get all the passives in game. Let’s see Thief has the most hardcounters in game.

And Thief is highly dependent on the teammates being able to hold a point or not die instantly, otherwise their decaps mean nothing. Maybe if Anet balanced all the classes and stopped relegating Thief to Decap/+1 as stated by Devs that’s what they want the Thief to be in PvP, while other classes can fill those roles as well as team fight effectively and 1v1 other classes effectively, maybe if they actually took PvP balance seriously they can take a look at Thief mobility but right now that’s not the case.

thief can never have teamfight capability, to give team fight capability they had to complete rework thief and lose all the evades.
defenses had to be balanced between capability of evading hits and capability of soaking damage, all thief defenses are based on evade, they have to get 0 capability of soaking damage and that means they cant stay in large fight cuz every lost bullet(aoe) kills them the same is the necro problem they have the most capability of soaking damage (the biggest hp bar and the extra lifeforce bar) and they get in “reward” 0 evade capability
a class that its hard to hit cuz a kittenload of evades had to die when finally gets a pair of succesfull hits and a class that can soak damage have to facetank all their damage cuz they cant evade, its a very simple thing
crying for teamfight capabilitys in actual thief design is crying for a inmortal OP thief big damage, big mobility, incredible dodges… and big hp or blocks or resistance…. no thanks

Apparently you didn’t understand what i said, people complain about Thief excelling at its only role, yet fail to realize other classes can fill the same role but also Team fight and 1v1 with more impact and reliability, yet want to take the Thief’s onlyy role away from them, does that make more sense? So if they nerf Thief’s only role then they better back it up with giving them team fight capabilities. So many people whine and complain but don’t look at everything as a whole they like to view things in a vacuum.

no other classes than mesmer with portals can go for the role of decaps without losing a lot of time in travel and if making a bad choise in the moment of going to decap a fatal error not being able of insta desengaging and insta correcting their mistake

megilandil.7506:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

megilandil.7506:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

I’ve mained guardian since launch and decided to pick up playing thief after some rediculous matches that a singular theif pretty much won for their team.

The reality is, with thieves current mobility you literally cannot punish their rotations, but they can guaranteed punish the opposing teams bad rotations.

To me it’s a matter of risk. If a Guardian rotates poorly, it’s just about a guaranteed death and significant loss toward victory. So every rotation matters and needs to be made with good judgement.

With a thief, their is no real risk except if you get caught by another thief that you can’t beat. If you rotated badly, just escape and move onto the next point. You’ll find a favorable situation fairly quickly if you have good judgement.

Going from playing guardian where every rotation is a matter of life and death to theif where it’s just this thing you do has been very interesting. Do I think they’re mobility should be brought down to Guardians level? No. But being it down where their is some level of risk of loss for a bad rotation.

Bahahaha life or death on Guardian, where it is literally carried by all the blocks and instant cast heals on the meta build while also being able to pressure a point. And there is risk for bad rotation when he enemy team plays smart, because You can’t balance around potatoes, Otherwise you get all the passives in game. Let’s see Thief has the most hardcounters in game.

And Thief is highly dependent on the teammates being able to hold a point or not die instantly, otherwise their decaps mean nothing. Maybe if Anet balanced all the classes and stopped relegating Thief to Decap/+1 as stated by Devs that’s what they want the Thief to be in PvP, while other classes can fill those roles as well as team fight effectively and 1v1 other classes effectively, maybe if they actually took PvP balance seriously they can take a look at Thief mobility but right now that’s not the case.

thief can never have teamfight capability, to give team fight capability they had to complete rework thief and lose all the evades.
defenses had to be balanced between capability of evading hits and capability of soaking damage, all thief defenses are based on evade, they have to get 0 capability of soaking damage and that means they cant stay in large fight cuz every lost bullet(aoe) kills them the same is the necro problem they have the most capability of soaking damage (the biggest hp bar and the extra lifeforce bar) and they get in “reward” 0 evade capability
a class that its hard to hit cuz a kittenload of evades had to die when finally gets a pair of succesfull hits and a class that can soak damage have to facetank all their damage cuz they cant evade, its a very simple thing
crying for teamfight capabilitys in actual thief design is crying for a inmortal OP thief big damage, big mobility, incredible dodges… and big hp or blocks or resistance…. no thanks

Apparently you didn’t understand what i said, people complain about Thief excelling at its only role, yet fail to realize other classes can fill the same role but also Team fight and 1v1 with more impact and reliability, yet want to take the Thief’s onlyy role away from them, does that make more sense? So if they nerf Thief’s only role then they better back it up with giving them team fight capabilities. So many people whine and complain but don’t look at everything as a whole they like to view things in a vacuum.

no other classes than mesmer with portals can go for the role of decaps without losing a lot of time in travel and if making a bad choise in the moment of going to decap a fatal error not being able of insta desengaging and insta correcting their mistake

Druid disagrees the Meta build has innate 33% move speed outside of combat and a 15 sec cd RTL equivalent, they can cover distance quiet easily, while also have stealth and super speed. Then you have Revenant that can move between points quiet easily as well.

And what do every other class besides Thief able to do on top of that? Oh that’s right actually contribute to Team fights and be a big impact, again why should all those classes be able to fulfill multiple roles while Thief is stuck to just one? And people want to nerf Thief’s only role. So until someone can come up with an answer there is only people being big whiners for no reason.