Guild Wars 2

Alright everyone keep calm. I would like to offer a little insight and perspective that I have gained.

I’ve been playing mesmer since the first beta, but have had decent exposure playing all of the classes in tpvp. I’m currently r40 but consistently play with r50s+ easy (As we know rank is only a statistical indication of the skill a player might have, but I do admit I learn more every time I play, and experience is crucial!). I have 57 qps and started doing paids late (hard to find a good team, plus school >.<)

The post will be in multiple parts since it’s so big.

I would like to say that I don’t have all of the answers, as balance is more complex that people generally realize.
I also don’t think nerfing mind wrack straight up is the answer, but read on

I would also like to say that there is much to discuss, and this is just a small glimpse into some of the most common things I hear regarding the mesmer class. I hope if you are having problems with mesmers you can find some insight here!

Let’s begin!

Balance is a strange, ever-evolving beast, and it’s hard to tame. Anet has taken a cautious approach to not overbuff/overnerf. (Which you could even argue is contrived with wow for example, over-buffing and over-nerfing repeatedly to keep people coming back at patch day)
Balancing around high-tier play and low-tier play is one of the many complications that comes with balance. It is important to balance the higher tier play for potential esportiness, as well as player skill advancement and satisfaction. It is important to balance lower tier play because some players don’t have the time to invest in getting really good, but they still want to enjoy their competitive spirit in a quick pvp game. There is nothing bad about low tier play!

That said, Anet has been making improvements – and more are on the way. I agree that tab targeting through many clones/pets/turrets for example is kind of a quality of life issue. But I would argue that it is more of a quality of life issue for non-high tier players. As a side note, you could disable pet tab targeting in wow, but there was no class with clones that was a part of their core playstyle. This is also why the assist target button is so useful in guild wars 2. Between five players, one is bound to call the intended target, and then everyone assists (I understand this is harder in hot joins because everyone calls their own target). Overall though, I think that players can, with a little effort, overcome “targeting through too many things” which opens up for a higher skill cap (more choices on what to tab/click, making the player have to have skill to properly target what they want)
This considered, like I said a core aspect of the mesmer class is deception, and I think one could argue that having a bunch of clones is part of the balance taken into account.

Another issue I hear discussed a lot is mesmer damage. Much of the damage shatter mesmers put out (shatter being basically the only viable tpvp spec) is condensed into mind wrack. This is volatile because if someone doesn’t avoid/mitigate one mind wrack, they are then at quite a bit of a disadvantage. It’s like taking a class in school and there’s only one test with a few questions that are quite hard. If you can’t get just one question you lose a disproportionate amount of points relative to your knowledge.
Again, this said, in higher tier play shatters are avoided, predicted, and mitigated all the time. Of course it’s always a battle of thinking ahead. Like I prefaced with, I’m not sure how to approach this, but I think that in terms of balancing around low-tier play, this might just be a case of the players needing to practice and get better (i.e. it’s how the game is, hard to cater to everyone)
Now in games you have skill/success curves and I would say that the mesmer class does indeed have a curve in low tier play that is skewed towards low skill high success. This is simply due to the fact that clones are core to the mesmer class, and it’s confusing for people who don’t know what to look for. -More on this later. The skill/success curve for high tier play is a little more evened out, but of course because mind wrack is so strong, the curve would be still more skewed towards less skill more success relative to an engineer or ele.

Regarding balance, I would like to point out that balance is pretty close (there can always be improvements, and everyone has their own opinion, I know) in high tier play. Teams that might be considered out-comped or counter-picked can often win just by changing strategy. This is indicative of good balance.

Some tips/discussion on mesmer role in tpvp:
Often a mesmer’s roll in a tpvp match would be to hold the close point, and assist mid with a portal up. Common strategies against this are to back-cap the point, force a portal, then just leave, then come back when the mesmer leaves again (if they do). Also remember that neutralizing a point, not completely capping, is an effective use of time. Especially if you can’t 1v1 the mesmer this is a good alternative if you can get it off.
In terms of matchups, I lose the point (won’t die in most cases but get forced off the point) to cleric’s amulet eles and some condition builds (as I don’t usually take null field). This means trap rangers give me a hard time (especially when they trap the portal), and condi thieves. Most often I will have to call for help back to the point, which if the other team realizes, can capitalize on.
I take a lot of pride in my 1v1s, and of course mesmers have a great kit for winning 1v1s, and even 1v2s, or at least stalling a 1v2. I’ve gone against the best of the best in NA, and statistically these are the specs/classes that give me the most trouble.

Some discussion on mesmer in spvp (hot joins):
Because of their strong 1v1 kit, and the skill curve associated with the class, mesmers are a terror of spvp. I think that this is something should be looked at and probably is being looked at. Many people just say “omg l2p nub” when someone complains about a mesmer, but I am here to reassure you, mesmers are brutal!

Now it is in my interest to not have mesmers nerfed because of low tier play (as I would consider myself in higher tier play now) but for the good of the community I think that there is balance that can be achieved. Ideally the holy grail of balance is to get the low tier play in check and have high tier play unaffected, hence the complexity.

Before I even played guild wars 2, when I read about the mesmer class and watched their videos I knew that they would be a scapegoated class in low tier play. Having clones to confuse people is a great recipe for QQ given the current archetype of classes and expectations in mmos. Not saying that everyone has the wrong expectation completely, but just put in a little time against mesmers, and you’ll see it’s not too bad.

Some pro tips against mesmers! Yaaay!

A clone will never:
-Cast
-Strafe
-Dodge roll
-Back pedal

Other things:
-Clones have less buffs than players
-Don’t have titles
-Clones auto attack about half as fast as the real player
-Control + t to call target on the right mes

Dealing with stealth:
-If the mesmer uses decoy or another stealth, you’ll know because there are only clones attacking you
-Your control + t target disappeared
-There is an effect on the ground when people come out of stealth, watch for that
-If a mesmer randomly appears and is exhibiting signs that eliminate the possibility of them being a clone, it’s probably the player.
-If mesmers are randomly spawning, then the cloaked mesmer is dodge rolling while stealthed, so just follow the clones being spawned.

Between all these things and more you can quickly figure out the real one.

To summarize:
1. Balancing around low tier play and high tier play is like balancing different games, it’s hard! (This is not an excuse however, but Anet is trying to make things better)
2. Balance in high tier play is arguably pretty decent.
-This is a hot topic I know. Everyone has their own opinion, but it’s not like you can run five of one class and excel.
3. There can/will always be improvements (warriors are a little weak – hopefully this will be addressed in feb. patch)
4. I don’t know if nerfing mind wrack is the answer (I don’t think it is actually) but like I’ve been saying, changes can be made.
5. Mesmers are indeed currently brutal relative to other classes in spvp/low tier play
6. Practice and have fun – IT’S A GAME!

Thanks for reading!

Supcutie.2538
Twitch.tv/hansawesome

Thank you for this post. And to be honest. If.they nerf mindwrack all mesmers will turn into bunker type builds that out bunker guardians and eles. I already do it and its quite funny when a BS thief doesnt insta down this build. But I am thankful for this post and hope those who hate mesmers learn something from it.

jportell.2197:

Thank you for this post. And to be honest. If.they nerf mindwrack all mesmers will turn into bunker type builds that out bunker guardians and eles. I already do it and its quite funny when a BS thief doesnt insta down this build. But I am thankful for this post and hope those who hate mesmers learn something from it.

I can assure you that they wont, and yes if mesmer burst get nerfed to the ground, all mesmer players will turn bunker….same as it has been for eles after huge CD and damage nerfs on scepter/staff…of course going bunker won’t stop the QQ, generally people will stop QQ about a profession once they become a free kill even for the lowest level of skill

The only problems I have with shatter mesmers are as follows

warning of shatter- seeing the trigger when both on a point

amount of damage- Im usually half hp so about 8k per shatter

how fast this can be repeated

seeing the real clone is no problem most of the time

there is just no way (in close quarters e.g. both on cap point) I can out heal / dps down fast enough… I dont have this problem with any other class

any advice on spotting the trigger for shatter close range?

I share you general sentiment. My only issue I have with Mesmers is the rate at which they spawn their illusions. Depending on the exact build they seem to spawn one every 2 seconds if you include stuff like Illusions on Dodges etc.

This makes it feel like destroying the illusions isn’t a viable tactic as they spawn too quickly.

Portal is something of a separate issue and not really a Mesmer balance issue per say. I think it warrants it’s own discussion.

Supcutie.2538:

Another issue I hear discussed a lot is mesmer damage. Much of the damage shatter mesmers put out (shatter being basically the only viable tpvp spec) is condensed into mind wrack. This is volatile because if someone doesn’t avoid/mitigate one mind wrack, they are then at quite a bit of a disadvantage. It’s like taking a class in school and there’s only one test with a few questions that are quite hard. If you can’t get just one question you lose a disproportionate amount of points relative to your knowledge.
Again, this said, in higher tier play shatters are avoided, predicted, and mitigated all the time. Of course it’s always a battle of thinking ahead. Like I prefaced with, I’m not sure how to approach this, but I think that in terms of balancing around low-tier play, this might just be a case of the players needing to practice and get better (i.e. it’s how the game is, hard to cater to everyone)

This definately is the biggest balancing razor they need to walk upon at the moment. From my own experience no abilities that are so heavily pass/fail should exist at all in the game. It promotes a play style that in many cases is to niche for high level play (shatter mesmers wouldn’t be as common without portal/timewarp) while being horribly “overpowered” at the lower less skilled playing brackets.
The issue is brought into glaring focus down at the bottom level as I pointed out in a previous thread when you get abilities like this (and BS thieves and early 100b warriors) and they become the dreaded ‘fotm’ status. This creates an enviroment where not only does a class have the huge pass/fail attack that if you do not anticipate and avoid it you pretty much instantly lose but it is present across 5-10 of the players in a 16 man match. You cannot possibly avoid that many, thus you die… repeatedly. Then you get frustrated and stop playing.

Another mesmer with condescending advice on how to play against mesmer…Keep you “advice” to yourself no one here started playing yesterday people know how to play against mesmer, that doesnt make it any less annoying.You talk as if during combat you only need to find real mesmer once and thats it, while in reality they drop target every few seconds so you need to look for them CONSTANTLY and that is nothing but annoying.And another thing, if finding a real mesmer is so easy and quick as you suggest, why dont they just add “target nearest enemy player” feature? Surely finding a real mesmer is no problem already, or so you say, and ofc pressing a key bind is more practical than poking a moving target, placed among other moving targets, with a mouse cursor?

Mesmers constantly drop targets, spawn clones and abuse culling. Shatter is a low skillcap effective build thats all reward and little risk. Good shatter mesmers are too strong in 1v1. Hoping to see a significant mind wrack nerf with the upcoming aoe changes so that all these mesmer scrubs start using their brains for once

@Khyras As someone who tPVP’s regularly even I found some of the advice helpful so the fact that you say it’s useless is bs and please keep that to yourself. It’s not condescending at all. He said it in a civilized tone, he made great points and it IS coming from a good mesmer (I THINK we’ve played together not sure…)

And actually yes, sometimes it is easier to just click the kittener. If he moves faster than the illusions, click and ctrl t (I just use T) and your good to go. Reapply target when necessary.

Tell tale signs also include player only buffs, such as glory boost and finishers. Some buffs are also can’t be on clones

@nerva no, Mesmers don’t abuse culling in tPvp. They have one stealth that isn’t even used all the time. ALL classes are too strong 1v1. As an ele it’s my job to try to kill these things and jf he’s good I have to call for help. But if I’m equally as good and neut it, he has to call for help too and we’re at an advantage as we neuted the point. It that simple.

The best thing on Mesmers are burns and bleeds. Poison is only effective as they try to heal, but burn and bleeds are so hard to get rid of on a mesmer it’s key to get those on.

If mind wrack gets a nerf, it’ll be due to AoE damage ring reduced after first target. That’s it.

And Mesmers ain’t scrubs. It takes a lot o skill to be a good mesmer. I’m not one, however trying to learn one as I have to face a lot of these on ele lol (these and kittening trap rangers…)

…lol what?

I’ve seen some of your posts on here let me tell you, I’m thinking your on thin ice…

Let me go through this again.

No, I’m not too shallow to learn things on my own, however if I miss something that I haven’t picked up before its nice to know I can learn it from someone else relatively easy…

And I did create a mesmer and testing it to learn to beat it….

And yes, it’s sometimes easier than having to spam tab to cycle through kitten, and sometimes it doesn’t even work! If the mesmer is running around anyway it’s easy as hell to click while your casting spells and press t. Doesn’t take long man. Sometimes it’s necessary.

Poor excuse for pvper? Turning with your keys it the only way TO do it. Strafing is for n00bz… (yes I strafe….)

Did that last line help make you feel better or something? Wasn’t constructive at all…

DXIEdge.2789:

…lol what?

I’ve seen some of your posts on here let me tell you, I’m thinking your on thin ice…

Let me go through this again.

No, I’m not too shallow to learn things on my own, however if I miss something that I haven’t picked up before its nice to know I can learn it from someone else relatively easy…

And I did create a mesmer and testing it to learn to beat it….

And yes, it’s sometimes easier than having to spam tab to cycle through kitten, and sometimes it doesn’t even work! If the mesmer is running around anyway it’s easy as hell to click while your casting spells and press t. Doesn’t take long man. Sometimes it’s necessary.

Poor excuse for pvper? Turning with your keys it the only way TO do it. Strafing is for n00bz… (yes I strafe….)

Did that last line help make you feel better or something? Wasn’t constructive at all…

Tab targeting to cycle through? Do you even know what “target nearest enemy player” is? This guy is amazing

Right because it NEVER targets clones or turrets right?

Right? Oh wait….

Excuse me?

Ok look I don’t know what crawled up your kitten but the fact your calling out me and the OP says something about you.

I’m out. Thanks op. play against you later probably. Khyras fix your attitude and before calling people scrubs maybe realize how kitten works.

A) tab targetin doesn’t work with clones out. If it did Mesmers would be hella easier to kill.

B) in team fights, if the mesmer is targeted and stealthed, targeting nearest enemy ends up with you targeting something else like an ele or guardian, people who SHOULDN’T be initial targets. Therefore, sometimes you need to kittening click. Only way it works sometimes. It sucks but you have to do it and it works when you need it to.

However, apparently my guilds and teams need to find a new ele/necro as I need to get a clue. My apologies

I’m out

Mind wrack needs a 20% nerf straight up no discussion, IF we’re keeping the current rate of clone generation. Then other builds need some buffing to bring variety to the meta.

….what?!

God what the hell is wrong with you people. 10% MAYBE and an AoE nerf. But a flast 20%?!

Wow I’m sorry but….that is post worthy.

No.

Agreed a 20% nerf would be ridiculous people seem to forget that mindwrack scales with power stats from runes and amulets. Also there’s a combo to shatter builds. Most won’t open with mindwrack they open with diversion to cause max vulnerability which stacks intensity and then do a mindwrack. Also if mindwrack does that much damage are you running GC? If so then don’t be surprised with mindwrack damage. I run a tank mesmer that benefits from full uptime on retaliation and regen. So a MW can kill the person casting it. So their are other things to consider besides mindwracks base damage which is currently a joke and needs major traits AMD crit bonuses to even be somewhat good

Very well written post with a few things that everyone should take into consideration. @Khyras there’s nothing wrong with using your mouse to target the real mesmer, at least to get your call target on him. Even as a GC Engi, I don’t mind not attacking, possibly eating some damage, or blocking for a couple of seconds just to make sure I have the right mes targeted. As DX has already pointed, relying on tab targeting will open you up to the possibility of targeting a clone/phantasm instead.

Choops.3710:

Very well written post with a few things that everyone should take into consideration. @Khyras there’s nothing wrong with using your mouse to target the real mesmer, at least to get your call target on him. Even as a GC Engi, I don’t mind not attacking, possibly eating some damage, or blocking for a couple of seconds just to make sure I have the right mes targeted. As DX has already pointed, relying on tab targeting will open you up to the possibility of targeting a clone/phantasm instead.

What tab targeting? tab targeting is part of the problem not solution i suggested.Target nearest enemy player, not nearest enemy, means that by pressing 1 key you target nearest player not his clones, turrets or minions.OP claims that finding real mesmer is no problem at all, so why is it a problem to put " target nearest enemy player" in the game as alternative to unpractical targeting with a mouse?

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

Supcutie.2538:

To summarize:
1. Balancing around low tier play and high tier play is like balancing different games, it’s hard! (This is not an excuse however, but Anet is trying to make things better)
2. Balance in high tier play is arguably pretty decent.
-This is a hot topic I know. Everyone has their own opinion, but it’s not like you can run five of one class and excel.

A minority of players are playing at that high tier, so saying that it’s balanced there is not a good way to strengthen your argument. It’s not in the best interest of ANet’s pocket book to adopt your philosophy because satisfying more players is always better than satisfying the few elite—where money is concerned.

tl;dr Expect nerfs.

Good god, the mesmer hate from some of these guys is hilarious. I love playing the troll class.

Nerf shatter to oblivion and we’ll just keep killing you with another build. It really is just a matter of learning to play.

Choops.3710:

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

You cant agree with OP that says that finding real mesmer is not a problem at all, just l2p issue, then tell me that having target nearest enemy player feature completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic. Make up your mind, is finding a real mesmer that drops target every few seconds in combat problem or not?

SteepledHat.1345:

Good god, the mesmer hate from some of these guys is hilarious. I love playing the troll class.

Nerf shatter to oblivion and we’ll just keep killing you with another build. It really is just a matter of learning to play.

Troll class = bad class design.

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

You cant agree with OP that says that finding real mesmer is not a problem at all, just l2p issue, then tell me that having target nearest enemy player feature completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic. Make up your mind, is finding a real mesmer that drops target every few seconds in combat problem or not?

Actually I can, I’m proving that right now by doing it. Finding the real mesmer CAN be a problem, but you need to watch which one dodges, fires off animations that their clones/phantasms can’t do, etc. Merely pressing tab and having the target switch to the real mesmer is doing all the work for you.

Maybe I have less of a problem because my rifle shots pierce and cream the clones standing in the way, immediately making it obvious which ones are clones and simultaneously killing them. If you’re having clone problems, I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a mes ain’t one

Actually, that’s a lie, a well played mesmer can be brutal, but I was listening to that song and it fit, so…..

Choops.3710:

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

You cant agree with OP that says that finding real mesmer is not a problem at all, just l2p issue, then tell me that having target nearest enemy player feature completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic. Make up your mind, is finding a real mesmer that drops target every few seconds in combat problem or not?

Actually I can, I’m proving that right now by doing it. Finding the real mesmer CAN be a problem, but you need to watch which one dodges, fires off animations that their clones/phantasms can’t do, etc. Merely pressing tab and having the target switch to the real mesmer is doing all the work for you.

So if all i need to do is watch for possible dodges and fire off animations, why then finding real mesmer can be a problem? Surely all i need to do wait for him to dodge and fire off animation while his clones are unloading dps on me? How can that be a problem?

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

You cant agree with OP that says that finding real mesmer is not a problem at all, just l2p issue, then tell me that having target nearest enemy player feature completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic. Make up your mind, is finding a real mesmer that drops target every few seconds in combat problem or not?

Actually I can, I’m proving that right now by doing it. Finding the real mesmer CAN be a problem, but you need to watch which one dodges, fires off animations that their clones/phantasms can’t do, etc. Merely pressing tab and having the target switch to the real mesmer is doing all the work for you.

So if all i need to do is watch for possible dodges and fire off animations, why then finding real mesmer can be a problem? Surely all i need to do wait for him to dodge and fire off animation while his clones are unloading dps on me? How can that be a problem?

I don’t know, you’re the one with the problem, so tell me.

Choops.3710:

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

You cant agree with OP that says that finding real mesmer is not a problem at all, just l2p issue, then tell me that having target nearest enemy player feature completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic. Make up your mind, is finding a real mesmer that drops target every few seconds in combat problem or not?

Actually I can, I’m proving that right now by doing it. Finding the real mesmer CAN be a problem, but you need to watch which one dodges, fires off animations that their clones/phantasms can’t do, etc. Merely pressing tab and having the target switch to the real mesmer is doing all the work for you.

So if all i need to do is watch for possible dodges and fire off animations, why then finding real mesmer can be a problem? Surely all i need to do wait for him to dodge and fire off animation while his clones are unloading dps on me? How can that be a problem?

I don’t know, you’re the one with the problem, so tell me.

You say finding a real mesmer can be a problem then tell me im the one with the problem?

Dude your spinning in circles. Stfu.

It is difficult…if you don’t know the signs. Once you do, AND YOU DON’T RELY ON TAB, it becomes easier unless the mesmer is good at realizing when to drop target, etc.

If they and went to “target nearest player” Mesmers would lose the ability to drop target easily. So just drop it already

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Khyras.8021:

Choops.3710:

Because targeting nearest enemy player completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic, which is making illusions that confuse the player.

You cant agree with OP that says that finding real mesmer is not a problem at all, just l2p issue, then tell me that having target nearest enemy player feature completely defeats the purpose of their profession mechanic. Make up your mind, is finding a real mesmer that drops target every few seconds in combat problem or not?

Actually I can, I’m proving that right now by doing it. Finding the real mesmer CAN be a problem, but you need to watch which one dodges, fires off animations that their clones/phantasms can’t do, etc. Merely pressing tab and having the target switch to the real mesmer is doing all the work for you.

So if all i need to do is watch for possible dodges and fire off animations, why then finding real mesmer can be a problem? Surely all i need to do wait for him to dodge and fire off animation while his clones are unloading dps on me? How can that be a problem?

I don’t know, you’re the one with the problem, so tell me.

You say finding a real mesmer can be a problem then tell me im the one with the problem?

Situationally, yes it can be. Like, say if you’re in a tournament fighting over the middle contested node, it’s you and 2 or 3 of your teammates against 3 or 4 of the enemy, it will most likely be a problem to find the real mesmer, due to all the things going on. Trying to make a point to you is like kicking water uphill.

the real problem is pinning the mesmer down, coz of Phase Retreat. Cmon a weapon ability which acts as a stun breaker with a realy low CD, where as other classes have to slot a utility for, with a ridicolous CD in comparism.

Damage can be avoided as said, targetting in a team fight is a bit tricky, but that s how the class is supposed to be, so it s fine.

Honestly. Its true that once you reach a certain level of skill mesmers level out quite a bit.
Portal and timewarp have some issues, but ignoring that mesmers arent that bad. There is an awful lot of QQ on the forums and its sad because so few of it is from top players. Who are too busy killing most of the mesmers they run into to worry about it.

They arent even the most powerful class in the game. sigh. ]

Also, trap rangers are the most annoying thing to fight! =)

Supcutie.2538:

…

To summarize:
1. Balancing around low tier play and high tier play is like balancing different games, it’s hard! (This is not an excuse however, but Anet is trying to make things better)
2. Balance in high tier play is arguably pretty decent.
-This is a hot topic I know. Everyone has their own opinion, but it’s not like you can run five of one class and excel.
3. There can/will always be improvements (warriors are a little weak – hopefully this will be addressed in feb. patch)
4. I don’t know if nerfing mind wrack is the answer (I don’t think it is actually) but like I’ve been saying, changes can be made.
5. Mesmers are indeed currently brutal relative to other classes in spvp/low tier play
6. Practice and have fun – IT’S A GAME!

Thanks for reading!

Supcutie.2538
Twitch.tv/hansawesome

illusionary leap is the problem a 2 second immobolize on a 12 second recharge.. not to mention the mesmer has without F4 the possibility with mainsword to migate dmg for 1/6 of the time.

as example shield stance on warrior has a 30 second recharge for 3 seconds of weaker protection then blur.

castbar would help low tier and dont affect high tier. just a suggestion.

Again, L2P comments from “elite players”.

For the only class to having working,worth-while pets (illusions), they get a metric-kitten-ton of invunrability ability,stun breaks,teleports and invisability – coupled with awesome damage.

I dare anyone here to run a fraps on how to “properly kill a mesmer” with anything but the other 2 problematic classes right now – thief and elementist.

Go ahead, TEACH US HOW TO PLAY. trolls.

Blakey.5670:

Again, L2P comments from “elite players”.

For the only class to having working,worth-while pets (illusions), they get a metric-kitten-ton of invunrability ability,stun breaks,teleports and invisability – coupled with awesome damage.

I dare anyone here to run a fraps on how to “properly kill a mesmer” with anything but the other 2 problematic classes right now – thief and elementist.

Go ahead, TEACH US HOW TO PLAY. trolls.

Dude, trap rangers are the BEST thing to fight a mesmer 1on1. My goodness, its so easy you could probably do it while watching tv and eating your lunch on a ranger.
Also thief vs mesmer is kinda 50/50 either way.

But, you are correct a ele will also win the alot of 1on1s vs a mesmer.

Also, 1on1 isnt the game type. If 1on1 determined everything nobody would play anything but rangers and eles.

Also, depending on the spec engies can be really decent at fighting mesmers 1on1. I’ve watched teldoo beat many a memser 1on1 , who are 400+ qp players rank45 +.
Honestly, mesmers are beatable. I had trouble with them, i got better, now i find i can beat most mesmers even solo. Some mesmers kill me, but thats because i got outplayed.
Also not all match ups are good 1on1. 100B warriors for example really struggle in 1on1, but are great in joining teamfights, or finishing someone off quick by joining a fight.

Illusionary leap not a stun breaker. Swap is even tho it doesn’t say it. Phase retreat is not astun breaker just instant cast move. Had this conversation with someone before trying to say we should have it increased insanely high to mactch skull crack for instance which he said was on a 25 second cooldown I found out it was only on a 10 sec CD which is right close to PR and IL. And ileap has obvious animation that frustrates mesmers beyond belief and.is easily avoidable

daydream.2938:

Blakey.5670:

Again, L2P comments from “elite players”.

For the only class to having working,worth-while pets (illusions), they get a metric-kitten-ton of invunrability ability,stun breaks,teleports and invisability – coupled with awesome damage.

I dare anyone here to run a fraps on how to “properly kill a mesmer” with anything but the other 2 problematic classes right now – thief and elementist.

Go ahead, TEACH US HOW TO PLAY. trolls.

Dude, trap rangers are the BEST thing to fight a mesmer 1on1. My goodness, its so easy you could probably do it while watching tv and eating your lunch on a ranger.
Also thief vs mesmer is kinda 50/50 either way.

But, you are correct a ele will also win the alot of 1on1s vs a mesmer.

Also, 1on1 isnt the game type. If 1on1 determined everything nobody would play anything but rangers and eles.

Also, depending on the spec engies can be really decent at fighting mesmers 1on1. I’ve watched teldoo beat many a memser 1on1 , who are 400 qp players rank45.

trap rangers are only a problem cause u dont take a conditioncleaner or spec for it as mentioned from op. with eles u mean bunker eles. thats why condition engis are trouble 2… to good regen on this 2 builds coupled with conditions and no or to fwe conditioncleaner on mesmerside

jportell.2197:

Illusionary leap not a stun breaker. Swap is even tho it doesn’t say it. Phase retreat is not astun breaker just instant cast move. Had this conversation with someone before trying to say we should have it increased insanely high to mactch skull crack for instance which he said was on a 25 second cooldown I found out it was only on a 10 sec CD which is right close to PR and IL. And ileap has obvious animation that frustrates mesmers beyond belief and.is easily avoidable

u wanna say what? or just proving how op some weapon skills are? all instant casts are usable during stun so in terms of avoiding dmg it is countable a stun break.

Blakey.5670:

Again, L2P comments from “elite players”.

For the only class to having working,worth-while pets (illusions), they get a metric-kitten-ton of invunrability ability,stun breaks,teleports and invisability – coupled with awesome damage.

I dare anyone here to run a fraps on how to “properly kill a mesmer” with anything but the other 2 problematic classes right now – thief and elementist.

Go ahead, TEACH US HOW TO PLAY. trolls.

would like to see some vids 2

Then watch streams. Seriously. That is your best option.

People the answer to all your questions is at your beck and call, and yet only me and at most 300 other people are watching them. Streams are invaluable.

Powerr’s for instance. He has previous broadcasts. Watch them. Watch how he maneuvers, then rewatch his skill bar. Seriously. It’s how I got better. You need to understand both, not just watch the fighting as he makes it look easy.

Good Mesmers are hard to beat with else’s, but if your a good ele you can beat them, else for sure a standoff with you neuting the point.

DXIEdge.2789:

Then watch streams. Seriously. That is your best option.

People the answer to all your questions is at your beck and call, and yet only me and at most 300 other people are watching them. Streams are invaluable.

Powerr’s for instance. He has previous broadcasts. Watch them. Watch how he maneuvers, then rewatch his skill bar. Seriously. It’s how I got better. You need to understand both, not just watch the fighting as he makes it look easy.

Good Mesmers are hard to beat with else’s, but if your a good ele you can beat them, else for sure a standoff with you neuting the point.

^ This (Teldo, for us engis) plus just plain old practice. It’s easy to get upset about imbalance but eventually you have to realize that you can’t fix it, so you might as well just learn to work with it and hope it gets fixed eventually. Discussion in the forums is key as ANet (hopefully) glances these over to see what’s on players minds, but until patches and suggestions are implemented, all we can do is play the hand we’ve got.

hooma.9642:

jportell.2197:

Illusionary leap not a stun breaker. Swap is even tho it doesn’t say it. Phase retreat is not astun breaker just instant cast move. Had this conversation with someone before trying to say we should have it increased insanely high to mactch skull crack for instance which he said was on a 25 second cooldown I found out it was only on a 10 sec CD which is right close to PR and IL. And ileap has obvious animation that frustrates mesmers beyond belief and.is easily avoidable

u wanna say what? or just proving how op some weapon skills are? all instant casts are usable during stun so in terms of avoiding dmg it is countable a stun break.

Blakey.5670:

Again, L2P comments from “elite players”.

For the only class to having working,worth-while pets (illusions), they get a metric-kitten-ton of invunrability ability,stun breaks,teleports and invisability – coupled with awesome damage.

I dare anyone here to run a fraps on how to “properly kill a mesmer” with anything but the other 2 problematic classes right now – thief and elementist.

Go ahead, TEACH US HOW TO PLAY. trolls.

would like to see some vids 2

Trap rangers/100nades engi’s. I tell ALL of you right now that are too caught up to try and learn unless the mesmer is running a full tank support retal build they are gonna die so fast to condi’s that you will laugh. But hey don’t take my advice for it… Go fight a mesmer and don’t use anything but condition skills on them. See how often they get removed

To be honest, I find this whole debate if you have it, ridiculous. I have been playing Mesmer for quite some time in paid tournaments , and i know how to kill a Mesmer because of this. No, not bad Mesmers, but good ones. Obviously it goes without saying that you need to target the Mesmer, but this isn’t always necessary, identifying the real Mesmer on the fly is rather easily done, just click him. AOE is your best friend, condition’s even more so. Mesmers have rather poor condition removal, exhausting this will get you the win. Identifying the Mesmer’s build is very important, if clones are traited to apply conditions don’t kill them, or be smart about it. When Mesmers trait to shatter like 90% do, kill their illusions with AOE, and exhaust their condition removal, break stealth with AOE or attack the air with a melee weapon. In the end I completely agree with the OP. You need to build your experience, if you think just running a certain rune, amulet and traits will get you the results you desire, you are sadly mistaken.

The fact that ‘elite’ players can beat even other elite mesmers 1on1 with most classes at least a fair shre of the time indicates that it really is a l2p issue.

If your having ttrouble w mesmers listen to some of this advice. Best advice watch good players stream, you will see them slaughter mesmers left right and center.

Mesmers are strong , but because of timewarp and portal, not because of clones.

Chef.7840:

To be honest, I find this whole debate if you have it, ridiculous. I have been playing Mesmer for quite some time in paid tournaments , and i know how to kill a Mesmer because of this. No, not bad Mesmers, but good ones. Obviously it goes without saying that you need to target the Mesmer, but this isn’t always necessary, identifying the real Mesmer on the fly is rather easily done, just click him. AOE is your best friend, condition’s even more so. Mesmers have rather poor condition removal, exhausting this will get you the win. Identifying the Mesmer’s build is very important, if clones are traited to apply conditions don’t kill them, or be smart about it. When Mesmers trait to shatter like 90% do, kill their illusions with AOE, and exhaust their condition removal, break stealth with AOE or attack the air with a melee weapon. In the end I completely agree with the OP. You need to build your experience, if you think just running a certain rune, amulet and traits will get you the results you desire, you are sadly mistaken.

This is very true. Specific equipment pieces aren’t what determines killing mesmers. Battlefield awareness. Knowing your build and the LIMITATIONS of that build and knowing alternative builds and finding out if you have the right playstyle to work with that build are important not only in beating mesmers but in beating all classes that people have issues with.

Who are these pro players you’re talking about?
these unsung heroes?

Why are their opinions any more valid then mister common joe?
Do you think riot phones up Derius when they want to make a patch?

Youre acting as if everyone with a negetive comment just came off the boat.
It’s safe to say thar a large margein of the commenters have gaming backround, rpg and otherwise.

Some l33t asain dude being able to best a mesmer every now and then makes zero change.

Maybe he’s too good, and the messy is too bad.
Maybe it was luck.
Maybe the messy was half asleep.

Go ahead a shut us up. Fraps these pros of yours taking on visibly good mesmers & bunkers ele and post them here.
Or the other 20 balance threads regarding similar problems.

Due to the inflammatory tone of this thread, it will be closed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss issues on our forums, you have to do it in a constructive way.