Guild Wars 2

Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP

Here is why…..

Say you are in a match where the score is:

Red
45

Blue
380

The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.

One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team

……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.

As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.

Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.

Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.

Well, yeah. Remove the ability to pick what team you go on, too. You hotjoin, you get autoassigned.

While I’d like to keep spectator, this has gotten ridiculous. I can’t test builds effectively if I’m just going to be getting steamrolled by three players while the other two fight off my two other teammates.

Forcing auto balance doesn’t even work. They just keep leaving the losing side and waiting for the next auto balance to get back to the winning team. WELL over half the games I’m in are imbalanced. By the time I get the teams balanced by forcing auto balance and joining the losing side the other team has a 100-200 point lead.

You shouldn’t be allowed to rejoin a game once you leave or go spectator, either. Not until the match is over.

aliksyian.7642:

You shouldn’t be allowed to rejoin a game once you leave or go spectator, either. Not until the match is over.

Totally agree with this!

While I don’t really approve of the Autobalance Wars, you guys are aware that if you’re autobalanced over, you will still get the winning credit + rewards +achievement progress even if you didn’t volunteer, right?

So if you get autobalanced over, just shrug and YOLO it. You’ll get winner’s credit no matter what.

Zaxares.5419:

While I don’t really approve of the Autobalance Wars, you guys are aware that if you’re autobalanced over, you will still get the winning credit + rewards +achievement progress even if you didn’t volunteer, right?

So if you get autobalanced over, just shrug and YOLO it. You’ll get winner’s credit no matter what.

If I’m in hotjoin I’m not playing for the win rewards. I’m playing to have some stress free fun without worry about ranks and to try new and strange builds. However it isn’t fun if one side is casually dominating the other because people are exploiting a system. Win or lose it just isn’t entertaining.

Any 4v5 game is a steamroll most of the time anyway, so who cares if sb forces autobalance.

A 4v5 results in outnumbered fights and ultimately in zerging. It’s not a proper way to test builds and the opposite team isn’t having any fun. Just enjoy the volunteer bonus and roll with it. I enjoy volunteering as soon as it pops up and I’m glad I can test my builds in outnumbered fights.

Also, if you play with the ‘play now’ button, you’ll end up in full servers* most of the time, where autobalance isn’t a problem.

*edit: as in filled up fast, not full when you enter

…………………bump

auto balance and team swapping is not the problem, the problem is, players like your good self (TheBlackLeech) very much prefers to stay on the team of 5 to steam roll the players in the team of 4.

you just admitted it yourself in your first post.

the correct method to fix this problem is to make it that the teams are even always, not 5 vs 4
4 vs 3
3 vs 2
2 vs 1

but
5 vs 5
4 vs 4
3 vs 3
2 vs 2
1 vs 1

Autobalance is necessary.

But what they should do is

(1) remove the ability to pick which team you are on when you join the game, and
(2) remove spectate mode

These features are in the game so that you can watch games and play on the same team as your friend. So, perhaps it’s ok to let players choose thir team before the game starts, but not after. also perhaps.

(3) don’t let a player join the game unless somebody joins on the other team.

The replies to this thread (and there are many like it) will say that hot join is casual, for learning, but there is nothing to learn from playing in mismatches where you can’t lose.

In fact, mismatched hotjoin promotes bad habits.

In hotjoin rushing far or Svanir are good ideas because a momentary points advantage at the start will create a numbers advantage for your team that could last the rest of the game. In solo Q, rushing far or Svanir will get your outnumbered teammates wiped.

auto balance should stay, team swapping should go,
but while this has been talked about repeatedly and all of us players know it is killing pvp, the devs haven’t even acknowledged that they plan to fix it, or that they even know it is an issue, personally i’ve lost all faith in their competence to fix pvp.

TR;DR they won’t fix it.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP

Here is why…..

Say you are in a match where the score is:

Red
45

Blue
380

The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.

One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team

……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.

As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.

Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.

Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.

It’s become an entirely different type of game – and it’s not as fun.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

auto balance and team swapping is not the problem, the problem is, players like your good self (TheBlackLeech) very much prefers to stay on the team of 5 to steam roll the players in the team of 4.

you just admitted it yourself in your first post.

the correct method to fix this problem is to make it that the teams are even always, not 5 vs 4
4 vs 3
3 vs 2
2 vs 1

but
5 vs 5
4 vs 4
3 vs 3
2 vs 2
1 vs 1

I don’t do this, ever.

I’m tired of watching others do this.

aliksyian.7642:

You shouldn’t be allowed to rejoin a game once you leave or go spectator, either. Not until the match is over.

Definitely agree.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

auto balance and team swapping is not the problem, the problem is, players like your good self (TheBlackLeech) very much prefers to stay on the team of 5 to steam roll the players in the team of 4.

you just admitted it yourself in your first post.

the correct method to fix this problem is to make it that the teams are even always, not 5 vs 4
4 vs 3
3 vs 2
2 vs 1

but
5 vs 5
4 vs 4
3 vs 3
2 vs 2
1 vs 1

I don’t do this, ever.

I’m tired of watching others do this.

but what you have suggested will not fix 5 vs 4 situations.

5 vs 4 situations will still occur.

the only way to fix 5 vs 4 is to make 5 vs 4 become 4 vs 4 and the 5th extra member wait for the next person to die before respawning.

i dun mind losing after we tried our best, i do mind being bullied by the other team because they have one more player than us.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

auto balance and team swapping is not the problem, the problem is, players like your good self (TheBlackLeech) very much prefers to stay on the team of 5 to steam roll the players in the team of 4.

you just admitted it yourself in your first post.

the correct method to fix this problem is to make it that the teams are even always, not 5 vs 4
4 vs 3
3 vs 2
2 vs 1

but
5 vs 5
4 vs 4
3 vs 3
2 vs 2
1 vs 1

I don’t do this, ever.

I’m tired of watching others do this.

but what you have suggested will not fix 5 vs 4 situations.

5 vs 4 situations will still occur.

the only way to fix 5 vs 4 is to make 5 vs 4 become 4 vs 4 and the 5th extra member wait for the next person to die before respawning.

i dun mind losing after we tried our best, i do mind being bullied by the other team because they have one more player than us.

guess he means that if there are 3 people than it is a 1v1 instead of a 2v1, people join in pairs not just whenever they click the button

sendmark.4731:

aliksyian.7642:

You shouldn’t be allowed to rejoin a game once you leave or go spectator, either. Not until the match is over.

Definitely agree.

This is possibly a solution… and it would have to include “nobody can spectate a match before choosing a team to join”.

Most of the problem is people rank-stacking on the same team, or spectating for a minute or two before choosing to join the team that’s performing better.

If you’re going to prevent folks from playing after spectating, this has to include the period before they join the match.

People switching teams when they’re outnumbered is a symptom, not the core problem. If you have chest pains, you don’t stab at your chest until it stops hurting – you find out what’s causing the pains and fix that problem instead. The stabbing will, at the very best, not help. It’ll probably make things worse.

Punishing people who are already getting steamrolled in a perma-4v5 won’t help at all. Whatever solution is used, it has to strongly discourage games from being 4v5 in the first place:
– make it less lucrative to join the winning team, or more worthwhile to join the losing team (such as by making the pretty minimal hotjoin-level rewards equal for both teams).
- prevent people from choosing teams altogether (random button), or at least stop them from joining the team with higher score when it’s even team numbers.
- anything that isn’t this knee-jerk “these people are forcing autobalance of course they’re the problem”. It really will just make losing teams lose harder.

Like I was saying in one of the many other threads on this, there’s a fairly easy solution to the problem, it seems to me.

1) If you spec out or swap without autobalance once you’ve been on a team, 0 points for the round.
2) Autobalance 5-4’s if the 4 team is behind by say 50-100 points. Same rules as the current autobalance. All of a sudden, the 5-4 is on the other side, and late joins aren’t screwed over either because they’ll likely come into a very close or their team ahead match.

There are some potential exploits to 2), but including 1) deals with most of them.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP

Here is why…..

Say you are in a match where the score is:

Red
45

Blue
380

The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.

One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team

……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.

As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.

Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.

Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.

ppl caring about hotjoin…i usually go there just to test stuff and troll….who cares hj is kitten and full of kitten, we have WAY more important things to fix before looking at hotzerg

The thing is – hotjoins is where new players are introduced into sPvP. Ye-ye, all you elitist top1 ladder guys are too cool for it, but if you want to get some fresh blood for ranked q’s , GW2 needs a decent entry-level pvp-mode. That both teaches new players how to things properly AND is enjoyable for them.

Atm, hotjoins only teach people zerging. Like in almost every game you see 4 ppl stacking on one point, avoiding 1v1’s, ignoring undefended points, being clueless about map mechanics, etc. It doesn’t help testing builds (unless you want to test some uber bunker that can tank 4 ppl focus), doesn’t provide enjoyable encounters, doesn’t promote skilled gameplay. Just spectate till you join the winning team and then run in one blob. In the end it will only result in overall degradation of competetive pvp-scene.

Archaon.9524:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP

Here is why…..

Say you are in a match where the score is:

Red
45

Blue
380

The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.

One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team

……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.

As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.

Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.

Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.

ppl caring about hotjoin…i usually go there just to test stuff and troll….who cares hj is kitten and full of kitten, we have WAY more important things to fix before looking at hotzerg

Why wouldn’t people care about hotjoin?

The only reason nobody cares about it in its current state is because it is so horribly screwed up that there is almost no point in even playing beyond the point of testing builds.

We shouldn’t settle for broken content in any shape or form.

Archaon.9524:

ppl caring about hotjoin…i usually go there just to test stuff and troll….who cares hj is kitten and full of kitten, we have WAY more important things to fix before looking at hotzerg

Because ignoring hotjoin was the thing that killed spvp playerbase. Nobody cares about teamQ except few hundreds of players (out of thousands) and devs who still dreaming about “esport”.

Archaon.9524:

ppl caring about hotjoin…i usually go there just to test stuff and troll….who cares hj is kitten and full of kitten, we have WAY more important things to fix before looking at hotzerg

I do like testing builds too, but i gotta say that i’m not sure any hotjoin i played recently ended 5v5. Most of the time it is already 4v3 or 5v4 at the middle of the game, and either noone else joins, either people do party balance like it was argued here.

Rednik.3809:

Archaon.9524:

ppl caring about hotjoin…i usually go there just to test stuff and troll….who cares hj is kitten and full of kitten, we have WAY more important things to fix before looking at hotzerg

Because ignoring hotjoin was the thing that killed spvp playerbase. Nobody cares about teamQ except few hundreds of players (out of thousands) and devs who still dreaming about “esport”.

pretty tired to explain you that dumbing down specs (Since dumbfire more than 1 year ago), broken ladders and spam to win pvp in general is what killed pvp, nobody cares about hotjoin….and never will..

Archaon.9524:

pretty tired to explain you that dumbing down specs (Since dumbfire more than 1 year ago), broken ladders and spam to win pvp in general is what killed pvp, nobody cares about hotjoin….and never will..

Oh wait, it was not first 6 months after release where pvp lost majority of population because nobody even tried to nerf mesmers, thieves and d/d eles, right?

Rednik.3809:

Archaon.9524:

pretty tired to explain you that dumbing down specs (Since dumbfire more than 1 year ago), broken ladders and spam to win pvp in general is what killed pvp, nobody cares about hotjoin….and never will..

Oh wait, it was not first 6 months after release where pvp lost majority of population because nobody even tried to nerf mesmers, thieves and d/d eles, right?

nope most ppl left after dumbfire and then war’s buffs

Archaon.9524:

Rednik.3809:

Archaon.9524:

pretty tired to explain you that dumbing down specs (Since dumbfire more than 1 year ago), broken ladders and spam to win pvp in general is what killed pvp, nobody cares about hotjoin….and never will..

Oh wait, it was not first 6 months after release where pvp lost majority of population because nobody even tried to nerf mesmers, thieves and d/d eles, right?

nope most ppl left after dumbfire and then war’s buffs

You should try to look the twitch videos with the TP team and the Devs back in the Summer of 2013 , about talking ’’how to bring more PvErs to PvP scene and increase the PvP population .

I dont care about the manority that wanted to bring something new in the meta and then bail out from the game …

Hotjoin is the screw around “everybody wins =D” mode For newbies to learn about the game type, roamers to soak up kills from cappers/newbies, WvW players to find a decent fight without looking everywhere, duels to break out so you can test your skills in a hostile enviorment, a place where you can smoke a few bowls or down a few shots and run around and have fun. It’s prob best not to get so worked up over it to much stress for nothing. It’s what we do while our teams are gone (T_T </3) or don’t feel like dealing with the rage-ers in Solo queue.

Besides what do you miss out when you lose hotjoins 5 silver? or rank points that have a cap? lol who cares?

As for auto balancing over its kinda lame but does it really matter? Maybe the guy is farming monthly wins and is pretty bad, oh well you as an individual still get your win as well, even if his is undeserved but again who cares? It’s like getting mad cuz you lost a game of smash with 4 people with items on >>

Daishi.6027:

As for auto balancing over its kinda lame but does it really matter? Maybe the guy is farming monthly wins and is pretty bad, oh well you as an individual still get your win as well, even if his is undeserved but again who cares? It’s like getting mad cuz you lost a game of smash with 4 people with items on >>

It matters because I can’t properly test my build if I’m getting steamrolled by a zerg because my team is a man short. It matters because I was playing hotjoin to relax and it’s not relaxing to get steamrolled by a zerg because my team is a man short. It matters because I was trying to play a game with my friend who’s new to PVP and show him the ropes, but he got steamrolled by a zerg so many times because our team was a man short that he gave up on pvp entirely.

Exploting the team swap mechanic is extremely harmful to the PVP community. There is absolutely no good thing that comes from the exploit remaining. Why would anyone argue that this SHOULDN’T get fixed?

It’s not that I don’t think it shouldn’t be fixed or have measures implemented I just believe it’s less important than a lot of other things.

Realistically tho if you can’t handle the current game find another one? But that’s just bottom line, if you are getting zerged back cap and properly rotate if you care about winning if not just strait up avoid the zerg? But that’s more of a 4v5 issue than an auto balance one.

I’ve seen the 4 in 4v5 teams win a lot, usually when 5 is just zerging around and 4 has decent players who call targets, ping the map, support allies ect…

and maybe a good method of teaching your friend who’s getting steam rolled it would be to have him go to the other team, then you spend your time trying to shut him down as an individual call target on him and let him learn to deal with being focused.

You can turn the negative of hotjoin into a positive if you care less about the individual match I find.

Personally I enjoy some of my matches just running around and killing that I end up staying long after the cap when I don’t have ppl to play with.

I just kinda feel like Hotjoin is a “not bad” steak. Sure it’s not the Keg, but it’s also not the blandest and it might just need a little bit of sauce to make it more pleasant for each individual.

That’s the problem Daishi. Most days I have to go through five or six different games before I find a fair one without exploiters. It’s gotten to the point that you’re going to be in an unfair match for the majority of your play time, and that’s just not fun.

I also find the idea of having my friend learn through being a part of the brainless spam zerg to be a bad idea. That teaches a lot of bad techniques and strategies. Besides that, none of my friends are the kind of people to openly abuse an exploit in a way that hurts other players.

As of now Hotjoin is a pretty awful steakittenep sitting down ready to have a nice, quiet meal and always end up with a bad taste in my mouth.

It wouldn’t be so bad if I had an alternative. But if I’m playing hotjoin it’s because I don’t have a definite amount of time I can dedicate to Solo Queue and need to be able to leave the match at the drop of a hat. That’s what hotjoin is suppose to be. A casual environment where you can enjoy the game’s PVP without worrying about hurting other players if you have to leave suddenly or disconnect.

Edit: Um… Huh. Apparently when I type steak it’s a swear word? What?

Edit 2: What?! I can type steak the same way twice in one post but it only gets censored the first time…

Please leave it the way it is, I love my guaranteed win while I’m waiting for a real queue to pop up.

Played a 1 hotjoin match. 5 autobalance changes. Still 4 vs 3 the entire match.

How do you make a game (Meant to be fun) Completely not fun? Throw in a handful of immunity skills that exist for reasons no one knows. Then have this.

It’s like that girl friend you had for years and things were good. Then she released the girl friend 2 edition of herself and now the amount of irritating things just simply out weights all the good memories you had in those early good years. The general standard of Pvp in gw2 has become not disappointing or even underwhelming..it’s just irritating. Really-really irritating. Enough to drive a person away. They know this..which is what makes it irritating over any thing else.

First bring 8vs8 back.

Maybe you could do something like we to in tag football if we have an extra player.

If one team scores the scoring players switches teams.

intro a punishment system.. if you leave the match you are barred from hotjoin for an hour…

azizul.8469:

intro a punishment system.. if you leave the match you are barred from hotjoin for an hour…

The whole point of hot join is that you can come and go as you please.

Julie Yann.5379:

azizul.8469:

intro a punishment system.. if you leave the match you are barred from hotjoin for an hour…

The whole point of hot join is that you can come and go as you please.

of course, people can go as they please, and come after an hour….

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Maybe you never had it spelled out for you, Anet….. but Autobalance and Teamswap need to be removed from hotjoin sPvP

Here is why…..

Say you are in a match where the score is:

Red
45

Blue
380

The score is so one-sided because red team has 4 players and the blue team has 5.

One of the players on the red team pushes the B button…. and goes into spectator mode… creating a shortage of two players for the red team

……forcing a player to be Autobalanced to red from the blue team.

As soon as the autobalance occurs…. the teams will then be even, and the player who is spectating can now join the winning team instead of being on the losing team.

Even if he gets returned to the losing team due to a future autobalance, he will still receive credit for winning.

Please remove this from Hotjoin spvp….. people are abusing is so much, it is absurd.

So, how do you want to implement it?

azizul.8469:

Julie Yann.5379:

azizul.8469:

intro a punishment system.. if you leave the match you are barred from hotjoin for an hour…

The whole point of hot join is that you can come and go as you please.

of course, people can go as they please, and come after an hour….

Sounds like Soloq, go there and go away.

Sube Dai.8496:

Maybe you could do something like we to in tag football if we have an extra player.

If one team scores the scoring players switches teams.

If I get into the losing team, I would just leave causing a 4v3.

If it turns into a 3v3, then yay I can exploit it!

nekretaal.6485:

Autobalance is necessary.

But what they should do is

(1) remove the ability to pick which team you are on when you join the game, and
(2) remove spectate mode

These features are in the game so that you can watch games and play on the same team as your friend. So, perhaps it’s ok to let players choose thir team before the game starts, but not after. also perhaps.

(3) don’t let a player join the game unless somebody joins on the other team.

The replies to this thread (and there are many like it) will say that hot join is casual, for learning, but there is nothing to learn from playing in mismatches where you can’t lose.

In fact, mismatched hotjoin promotes bad habits.

In hotjoin rushing far or Svanir are good ideas because a momentary points advantage at the start will create a numbers advantage for your team that could last the rest of the game. In solo Q, rushing far or Svanir will get your outnumbered teammates wiped.

1. I would like to play with my friends. So no, I am against this.
2. No. I like watching people play sometimes. Maybe I am tired of playing pvp all the time. I can just watch people fight each other while I eat my pizza and then go back in when I finish eating my pizza instantly. So no, I’m against this.
3. I would like to join the game instantly instead of waiting to play. If I leave the match, it will cause a 4v3. What would be the solution?

• If Remove one player so it becomes 3v3, I can easily exploit that until I get into the winning team.
• Nothing, let it be a 4v3, nothing is solved. Let the winning team steamroll the losing team.

Here is a better solution:

• Lower the score from 500 down to 200. It becomes a faster game and auto-balance won’t be able to let a player get a quick win.
• Normalize rewards. Combine with above, they realize how unfun it is to auto-balance and it is better to just play the game.