Guild Wars 2

Darnis.4056:

.. You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means..

If your talking to me this is the first time I’ve said carebear in weeks. The feature is there in pvp to hold the hand of bad players and to make the risk of death less of a factor since you know you can just get up anyway

Downed state is (partially) how Anet re-invented the wheel known as ‘the holy trinity’.
Saying the feature is there because of bad players equals saying the sole purpose of monks in GW1 was to keep baddies alive.
Remove it, and you’re basically admitting the re-invention was a failure and the old system superior.

That said, the idea of replacing the downed state with rez signets doesn’t sound that bad. I’d use GW1-style one-time-use rez signets rechargable by a morale boost players could attain by completing certain side objectives.

downed state is not crucial to pvp, unless you consider they couldn’t sell us special finisher animations.

Truth is, I go into pvp, and assuming the other player isn’t a tank…I do burst them down…and because I’m not new to the game, I keep more than one ability to give me stability or turn me invisible, so I can finish them instantly with no resistance.

But the real problem isn’t downed state. Its the unbalanced downed state abilities combined with rally, the effortless chance that while killing someone…if the downed guy happened to damage him at all before/after being downed they will get rezzed for free mid fight. You may say it makes play oppurtunities. But I would argue, even if it didn’t rez your friend…you would still kill that person as its part of the objective to…and honestly you may not even notice your friend is downed or care.

I think resurrecting a friendly player needs risk…it needs choice. Stop what I’m doing and risk being killed while I hover over my ally for a few seconds leaving myself vulnerable…OR…ignore the kitten and kill the threat and HOPEFULLY hes still alive for me to go resurrect him. Being in team fights and watching people randomly spawn back to life while no one actually risks anything to rez anyone, is just plain effortless and boring mechanic that creates more annoyance than fun.

And downed state balance is well…obviously not balanced. TBH, if I designed this game from the start…I’d have everyone do pretty much the same thing when downed, which would be next to nothing like gears of war…except maybe cry out for help.

downed state is the main reason why i don’t PVP in this game. that’s how much I hate it.

if you play badly and lose 100% of your HP you should die, or if you take somedown to 0% of their HP they should die, you should not be forced to play some ridiculous tic-tac-toe mini-game that bears no resemblance to the game’s combat.

To those saying downed state is in replace of healers, that is incorrect. Everyone has self heals and evades in replace of healers. It patches that role nicely. And if downed state was out of the game they’d take measures to increase the games ttk in both pvp and pve. Mobs would hit for less so you’d be able to sustain yourself with your heals better, while the risks would be in the mechanics, not 10k auto swings and instant death abilities. In pvp self heals already work just fine in replace of healers. Self heal + anytype of support build keeps people alive. Healers would put it over the top and no one would ever die. Downed state is NOT in replace of healers, it’s just their “interesting” mechanic that isn’t so interesting and causes Very bad drawbacks across the ENTIRE game.

ronpierce.2760:

To those saying downed state is in replace of healers, that is incorrect. Everyone has self heals and evades in replace of healers. It patches that role nicely. And if downed state was out of the game they’d take measures to increase the games ttk in both pvp and pve. Mobs would hit for less so you’d be able to sustain yourself with your heals better, while the risks would be in the mechanics, not 10k auto swings and instant death abilities. In pvp self heals already work just fine in replace of healers. Self heal + anytype of support build keeps people alive. Healers would put it over the top and no one would ever die. Downed state is NOT in replace of healers, it’s just their “interesting” mechanic that isn’t so interesting and causes Very bad drawbacks across the ENTIRE game.

While I agree with everything you said, I think the main reason DS was put in the game was so they could try to sell finishers.

Whenever I have spoken to friends I PVP with in other games, downed state/rally is always cited as the #1 turnoff along with how visually messy/spammy the combat looks.

Combined with the legions of threads and posts since beta about the problems with DS, I can only wonder what this game could have been if it didn’t have downed state shackling it down. Downed state was a self-fulfilling prophecy for the state of the game’s PVP.

down state is working as intended, there is no reason to remove it.

if you fail to finish off your downed opponents, it is your fault, understand?

^ Downed state ruined PvE too because bosses have to have so many 1 shot mechanics and hit for 10k/swing in order to kill anyone otherwise they just get raised over and over. Now. If PVE had no downed state, mobs could hit for less, and the “1 shot mechanics” could become hard HITTING mechanics, then people would be able to survive normally without much “stress” with healing, but over time not be able to keep up if they got hit by the hard hitting mechanics, and once you die you die. And if toughness meant a bit more, this would allow people to pseudo “tank” and not need a healer because tanks would be their own healers and pve would be a LOT less boring. I can’t even stomach pve right now because the whole PVE scene is kill EVERY boss in less than 30 seconds, and run full berserker, and constantly expect people to go down because of all the hard hitting aoe that you can’t even really avoid.

I said it once and I’ll say it again, Down State is a cancer to the game because the amount that has been (poorly) balanced around it is ASTOUNDING. It’s not that interesting of a mechanic and the damages it has causes greatly out-do the benefits it may have for select players who “enjoy it”.

^ that’s your personal opinion.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

down state is working as intended, there is no reason to remove it.

if you fail to finish off your downed opponents, it is your fault, understand?

Thats your personal opinion

clint.5681:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

down state is working as intended, there is no reason to remove it.

if you fail to finish off your downed opponents, it is your fault, understand?

Thats your personal opinion

it is a fact, actually.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

^ that’s your personal opinion.

Actually… some of it isn’t opinion. They had to design the game the way they did because (especially in PvE) if they didn’t make things hit so hard and had downed state, no one would ever die. So as far as the state of HOW pve is, that’s not opinion. Downed state definitely caused that. It’s my opinion that it’s awful, but as for cause and effect, that isn’t opinion.

At least give us the option to test it out with and without down-state, instead of everything being set-in-stone like it currently is…..please

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

clint.5681:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

down state is working as intended, there is no reason to remove it.

if you fail to finish off your downed opponents, it is your fault, understand?

Thats your personal opinion

it is a fact, actually.

no it’s an opinion as well.

what is a fact though, is that this game’s PVP has failed fairly spectacularly by any objective measure, and it is the opinion of many, that downed state/rallying is one of the major causes of that failure.

even by the straw poll in this thread (http://strawpoll.me/853596/r), nearly half the voters want to see DS removed, who knows what proportion of the players that have already quit would also have wanted it gone. it stands to reason (and to bayesian statistical theory) that the proportion would have been higher, possibly much higher.

scerevisiae.1972:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

clint.5681:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

down state is working as intended, there is no reason to remove it.

if you fail to finish off your downed opponents, it is your fault, understand?

Thats your personal opinion

it is a fact, actually.

no it’s an opinion as well.

what is a fact though, is that this game’s PVP has failed fairly spectacularly by any objective measure, and it is the opinion of many, that downed state/rallying is one of the major causes of that failure.

even by the straw poll in this thread (http://strawpoll.me/853596/r), nearly half the voters want to see DS removed, who knows what proportion of the players that have already quit would also have wanted it gone. it stands to reason (and to bayesian statistical theory) that the proportion would have been higher, possibly much higher.

Not to mention those who don’t migrate to GW2 because of it. It, as a feature, has caused more issues in the entire game than I’d say just about any innovative feature has caused in a game in a very long time.

only 35 voted for that poll.
still an insignificant number even though more people do not wish for down state to be removed.

down state is an important game play mechanic of guild wars 2.

whatever you say, it will not be removed, ever.
period.

ronpierce.2760:

Not to mention those who don’t migrate to GW2 because of it. It, as a feature, has caused more issues in the entire game than I’d say just about any innovative feature has caused in a game in a very long time.

again, personal opinion.

“don’t migrate to GW2 because of it”
and you have no solid evidence to back up this claim.
even if you have, the numbers would probably be too insignificant to be of any difference.

ronpierce.2760:

In pvp self heals already work just fine in replace of healers. Self heal + anytype of support build keeps people alive.

Lol, looks like you never seen pvp healers in other games. GW2 self-heals and support builds are not even remotely close to them in terms of support power.

At the very least make downstate useful. Elementalists by far have the stupidest downstate in the game. Once and ele goes down they are toast. Next is the warrior with it’s .5 second window to be able to use 2 skill on a single target then hopefully vengence.

Down state is a boring game mechanic

DS is a huge team mechanic. The dynamic of Cluster ressing vs GTAoE/downstate pressure vs Res utility adds “phases” to the team fights that would not exist otherwise. It gives additional incentives for timing CC & Support in a team fight. also impacts focus target selection & positioning.

regarding 1v2s, they are perfectly feasible in GW2, & this game makes it a better representation of skill than one in which instant death occurs.

@risenlord, ele has incredible DS for teamplay. that has never been one of their issues.

I don’t know about your experiences. but from my experience once an ele goes down they teleport away and then get stomped 99.9% of the time. It’s a good mechanic for delaying a respawn but thats about it. Just saying ele downstate is weaksauce.

piffdaddy.8014:

At least now it can be countered with a rez utility or a skill such as shadow refuge to revive.

No. It’s countered by a passively triggered effect which bestows vantage to the affected player.

CMstorm.8679:

I really love the downed state mechanic in any aspect of GW2 whether it be Pve, Wvw, Pvp, dungeons/fractals.
I really like it because you have that chance to revive/rez an ally and potentially change the outcome of a match.

I like things about the mechanic too! Conversely there’s also things I don’t like about it.

However, considering you love influencing match outcomes, it may be troubling to learn that down state actually limits individual combat potency!

This means that even if you’re more skilled than another player it may not noticeably show! Because down state demotes skill as determining factor of combat!

Downstate is a great element in pvp however I would love to see the downstat to be normalized in pvp, so every class have the same downstate skills and don’t have an advantage over other classes.

I like downed state because it adds a level of decision to the heat of battle. Do I hold off on the stomp to down the other guy? Or do I blow a cooldown and risk a stomp? Instances like that where the player has to make a strategic decision on the fly are why Downed is a great edition to GW2’ combat.

risenlord.2035:

I don’t know about your experiences. but from my experience once an ele goes down they teleport away and then get stomped 99.9% of the time. It’s a good mechanic for delaying a respawn but thats about it. Just saying ele downstate is weaksauce.

its all about team work actually.

for example, a fellow downed elementalist may mist form and run to my feet, where i, as a warrior, revive the elementalist quickly.

enemies (without stability) trying to stomp the elementalist while my warrior is trying to revive?

i shout “fear me!” and send them running away while i successfully revive the downed elementalist.

this is teamwork!

Downstate is fine and fun. Sometimes fight only starts when you’re downed. And some traits help a lot when downed.

However couple things:
- Rallying from long distance is not ok, there should be a limit
- Rallying from npc is questionable, although not so much of a problem in spvp
- Some downed state skills are just way over the top, like ranger pet rez in water. Fortunately water maps are not in tourneys.
- You should have /kill command/button when downed so you can die faster. Sometimes people exploit downed state when you fall just outside circle etc. Or even worse they knockback you out of circle and leave you there. This is very common tactic. Maybe there needs to be some delay like 10-15 seconds before command/button can be activated so people just don’t immediately respawn.

Downed state would be fine if it were tweaked a bit.

End stealth upon entering downed state
Pet skills can’t be used while in downed state
Ranger downed skill 3 changed to activate an effect based on their current pet
Downed state HP reduced by 10%

Just a few changes I think should be made to the downed state. It has far too much importance in fights and even if you manage to bring down one person in a 2v1, or even both of them it’s entirely possible for them to still take you down and rally due to downed state mechanics depending on the classes involved.

Also, the Ranger 3 skill seems to be a bit broken. The only other skill that heals is Guardian 3, and unlike that the Ranger’s skill can actually outheal the damage of at least one person. If you enter a downed fight with a Ranger and there’s nobody else around it’s pretty much certain that the Ranger will end up rallying due to the pet heal and will get the stomp. It seems as if this should be changed to an effect based on the current pet, or a pet of the Ranger’s choosing. Rather than a full heal they can get an immobilize, fear, knockback, bleed, or other types of effects based on the pet they have/choose. This would need more discussion though.

Replacing a whole class with a random gimmick was the worst idea ever, and probably one of the reasons why spvp flopped so majorly.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Replacing a whole class with a random gimmick was the worst idea ever, and probably one of the reasons why spvp flopped so majorly.

sPvP flopped due to other reasons, not downed state.
- lack of in game presence
- lack of good in game tutorial
- inadequate rewards
- low sPvP population
- balance issues

I’m just going to promise you if downed stat was never in the game in the first place, it would have been a better game overall. Yes, it’s too late to go back now and taking it out would cause more issues, but I will not retract my statement, it IS a major flaw in the entire game from the beginning. This is across the WHOLE game, sPvP, wvw and especially what became of PvE.

Down state was a terrible decision for many reasons, but it doesn’t have to be totally eliminated, if they have decided it is part of their game.

Having people deal damage while in down state THAT is something that should be removed. If I am fighting a mesmer for example and I down him and there’s a buddy coming for him, my first thought is “crap, I can’t finish the guy in time for him not to deal massive damage via #1 and especially #3” and I mentally prepare to dodge the rogue at that point, because if that rogue hits me once, I am done.

So not only can’t I focus my attention on his team mate, who will try and revive him, I also can’t deal meaningful damage to the downed body, because I will not be able to outdamage the healing and I am likely to get smacked for 6k, if I stay close to the body.

To those complaining that they could have won certain fights if down state is not in the game, I highly recommend that you read this article.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

If a mechanics is not fun, its a valid reason to complain about it. But if you are complaining just because a mechanics is costing you a victory, then you are never going to learn counters and play to your full potential.

Its not fun because it hard stops certain classes from 1v2ing but others it doesn’t. IE stability/stealth classes have a huge advantage over say a necromancer. Its not about the victory, its about the imbalance and dismissing of skill because a single mechanic. And honestly PvP is where I hate downed state the LEAST. It ruined pve entirely.

Yeah, I love this article. Was thinking about it all the time, I was reading this thread! It made me become a better player and stop searching the reason for my defeats outside myself! Good post! +1

Btw., wanted to also say, that downed state skill sets are part of the whole kit of a class.
How would it be, if I answer: “Give all the classes the same abilities in down state” with “Give all the classes the same abilities”? Now that would be a fun game, wouldnt it?

Stop being scrubs! Play the game!

Cymric.7368:

To those complaining that they could have won certain fights if down state is not in the game, I highly recommend that you read this article.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

If a mechanics is not fun, its a valid reason to complain about it. But if you are complaining just because a mechanics is costing you a victory, then you are never going to learn counters and play to your full potential.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

risenlord.2035:

I don’t know about your experiences. but from my experience once an ele goes down they teleport away and then get stomped 99.9% of the time. It’s a good mechanic for delaying a respawn but thats about it. Just saying ele downstate is weaksauce.

its all about team work actually.

for example, a fellow downed elementalist may mist form and run to my feet, where i, as a warrior, revive the elementalist quickly.

enemies (without stability) trying to stomp the elementalist while my warrior is trying to revive?

i shout “fear me!” and send them running away while i successfully revive the downed elementalist.

this is teamwork!

Yeah but it’s not fair team-work.

The effort required is hugely in favor of the reviver. In your example all it takes is one skill and a 3 second click to bring someone back into action who you needed 20 seconds and 30 skill-uses to kill.

That’s what makes it so dumb. Reviving is so easy and rewarding compared to the effort it takes to down someone. If reviving took 8 seconds of interrupted casting to revive (like in most MMOs) things would be different.

If damage interrupted the revive process, things would be different (because everyone has damage, not everyone has interrupts or can counter stability).

You and your mate blow various cooldowns and resources to down someone over the course of 30 seconds and all his mate has to do in order to negate that effort is click him for 3 seconds? How dumb is that? Tell me how this is fair or balanced?

Just because it requires someone else to do it (aka. team-work) doesn’t justify it being so easy, rewardings and overpowered.

there is this coming from tho? tPvP or hotjoin ? ( point of view matters)

Down state actually matters. it adds depth to the game, those “3s” that takes to ress someone, are “3s+” where the players ressing, can’t move/cast/dodge/heal. It’s like the perfect trap to burst down group of enemies.

the only thing i will agree on, it is annoying when an entire teams rallies off 1 person, but… if they limit it, then stomp/rally would just become random.

Damaskinos.1263:

Yeah, I love this article. Was thinking about it all the time, I was reading this thread! It made me become a better player and stop searching the reason for my defeats outside myself! Good post! +1

Btw., wanted to also say, that downed state skill sets are part of the whole kit of a class.
How would it be, if I answer: “Give all the classes the same abilities in down state” with “Give all the classes the same abilities”? Now that would be a fun game, wouldnt it?

Stop being scrubs! Play the game!

Cymric.7368:

To those complaining that they could have won certain fights if down state is not in the game, I highly recommend that you read this article.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

If a mechanics is not fun, its a valid reason to complain about it. But if you are complaining just because a mechanics is costing you a victory, then you are never going to learn counters and play to your full potential.

I choose not to play sPVP at all, specifically because of downed state. I refuse to play a PVP game where after beating someone, or being beaten by someone, you’re forced to play some ridiculous mini-game with completely different skills and rules to the rest of the combat.

It’s like having to play a game of tic-tac-toe in order to kill someone… fanbois will say it “adds depth to the combat” but I just find it ridiculous. If the core combat needs more depth then add more depth to the combat.

I think it’s certain that downed state is responsible for some portion of why sPVP failed to gain any traction, the only question is how much.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if they added a DS-disable to custom arenas.

Cymric.7368:

To those complaining that they could have won certain fights if down state is not in the game, I highly recommend that you read this article.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

If a mechanics is not fun, its a valid reason to complain about it. But if you are complaining just because a mechanics is costing you a victory, then you are never going to learn counters and play to your full potential.

Downed state kills lots of fun indirectly, especially in the conquest format. In the conquest mode, lot’s of 1v2s happen. Downed state makes it impossible for the underdog to win this type fights.
Winning against unfavorable odds would be very exciting and fun, especially for the observers of the match. It isn’t very interesting to watch a fight that is over before it even begins. A game of “move between points so that you get 1v2s and 2v3s to your favor” also isn’t very interesting.

Dee Jay.2460:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

risenlord.2035:

I don’t know about your experiences. but from my experience once an ele goes down they teleport away and then get stomped 99.9% of the time. It’s a good mechanic for delaying a respawn but thats about it. Just saying ele downstate is weaksauce.

its all about team work actually.

for example, a fellow downed elementalist may mist form and run to my feet, where i, as a warrior, revive the elementalist quickly.

enemies (without stability) trying to stomp the elementalist while my warrior is trying to revive?

i shout “fear me!” and send them running away while i successfully revive the downed elementalist.

this is teamwork!

Yeah but it’s not fair team-work.

The effort required is hugely in favor of the reviver. In your example all it takes is one skill and a 3 second click to bring someone back into action who you needed 20 seconds and 30 skill-uses to kill.

That’s what makes it so dumb. Reviving is so easy and rewarding compared to the effort it takes to down someone. If reviving took 8 seconds of interrupted casting to revive (like in most MMOs) things would be different.

If damage interrupted the revive process, things would be different (because everyone has damage, not everyone has interrupts or can counter stability).

You and your mate blow various cooldowns and resources to down someone over the course of 30 seconds and all his mate has to do in order to negate that effort is click him for 3 seconds? How dumb is that? Tell me how this is fair or balanced?

Just because it requires someone else to do it (aka. team-work) doesn’t justify it being so easy, rewardings and overpowered.

if you and your mates are good, you can bring down their health again.
or prevent them from reviving their downed team mates.
or burst down their downed team mate such that reviving is impossible unless done with a few more people. also freshly revived people have much less health.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Cymric.7368:

To those complaining that they could have won certain fights if down state is not in the game, I highly recommend that you read this article.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

If a mechanics is not fun, its a valid reason to complain about it. But if you are complaining just because a mechanics is costing you a victory, then you are never going to learn counters and play to your full potential.

Downed state kills lots of fun indirectly, especially in the conquest format. In the conquest mode, lot’s of 1v2s happen. Downed state makes it impossible for the underdog to win this type fights.
Winning against unfavorable odds would be very exciting and fun, especially for the observers of the match. It isn’t very interesting to watch a fight that is over before it even begins. A game of “move between points so that you get 1v2s and 2v3s to your favor” also isn’t very interesting.

strength in numbers.
the party with less numbers is not suppose to win the battle and come out alive. especially in a 1 vs 2 situation.

Downed state can be in a competitve scene, but it needs tweaking.

1. The balance in downed state is horrible. Some classes have an amazing advantage on preventing stomps and surviving while others are useless.

2. I think in ranked matches the only way for a downed player to rez is they are the target of a rez signent or revie themselves with their downed state skills. I dont think rally or player reviving should exist because it is wayyy too forgiving in fights and “zerg” rezzing is ridiculous. 2v2, a engineer and necro vs a thief and guardian. The guardian starts rezzing his thief buddy that is stealthed and they were able to out heal the damage put out by a necro and an engineer. Luckily we stomped him but it was ridiculous.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dee Jay.2460:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

risenlord.2035:

I don’t know about your experiences. but from my experience once an ele goes down they teleport away and then get stomped 99.9% of the time. It’s a good mechanic for delaying a respawn but thats about it. Just saying ele downstate is weaksauce.

its all about team work actually.

for example, a fellow downed elementalist may mist form and run to my feet, where i, as a warrior, revive the elementalist quickly.

enemies (without stability) trying to stomp the elementalist while my warrior is trying to revive?

i shout “fear me!” and send them running away while i successfully revive the downed elementalist.

this is teamwork!

Yeah but it’s not fair team-work.

The effort required is hugely in favor of the reviver. In your example all it takes is one skill and a 3 second click to bring someone back into action who you needed 20 seconds and 30 skill-uses to kill.

That’s what makes it so dumb. Reviving is so easy and rewarding compared to the effort it takes to down someone. If reviving took 8 seconds of interrupted casting to revive (like in most MMOs) things would be different.

If damage interrupted the revive process, things would be different (because everyone has damage, not everyone has interrupts or can counter stability).

You and your mate blow various cooldowns and resources to down someone over the course of 30 seconds and all his mate has to do in order to negate that effort is click him for 3 seconds? How dumb is that? Tell me how this is fair or balanced?

Just because it requires someone else to do it (aka. team-work) doesn’t justify it being so easy, rewardings and overpowered.

if you and your mates are good, you can bring down their health again.
or prevent them from reviving their downed team mates.
or burst down their downed team mate such that reviving is impossible unless done with a few more people. also freshly revived people have much less health.

Way to go about completely ignoring the argument. Sure there are ways to deal with it in practice. But it doesn’t change the fact that reviving from downed-state is too simple and easy compared to what it takes to down someone.

And this isn’t even touching on the downed abilities where some classes are guaranteed to deny you your stomp.

In order to stomp someone in a group fight you expose yourself to great pressure, you must be faster than the reviver, you must have the appropriate counter ability to ensure the stomp (if there even is a counter) and you need Stability to ensure no one else interrupts you. And all that just to kill someone you have already defeated in combat.

That’s just dumb.

The essence is though that a 3 second click negates an entire Pvp battle that may have lasted quite a while and involved actual skill.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

strength in numbers.
the party with less numbers is not suppose to win the battle and come out alive. especially in a 1 vs 2 situation.

You’re naive if you believe numbers should be the principal factor for determining combat.

Skill promotes quality over quantity, meaning numbers have variable value, so you can’t reliably judge the outcome based on numbers alone.

Dee Jay.2460:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Dee Jay.2460:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

risenlord.2035:

I don’t know about your experiences. but from my experience once an ele goes down they teleport away and then get stomped 99.9% of the time. It’s a good mechanic for delaying a respawn but thats about it. Just saying ele downstate is weaksauce.

its all about team work actually.

for example, a fellow downed elementalist may mist form and run to my feet, where i, as a warrior, revive the elementalist quickly.

enemies (without stability) trying to stomp the elementalist while my warrior is trying to revive?

i shout “fear me!” and send them running away while i successfully revive the downed elementalist.

this is teamwork!

Yeah but it’s not fair team-work.

The effort required is hugely in favor of the reviver. In your example all it takes is one skill and a 3 second click to bring someone back into action who you needed 20 seconds and 30 skill-uses to kill.

That’s what makes it so dumb. Reviving is so easy and rewarding compared to the effort it takes to down someone. If reviving took 8 seconds of interrupted casting to revive (like in most MMOs) things would be different.

If damage interrupted the revive process, things would be different (because everyone has damage, not everyone has interrupts or can counter stability).

You and your mate blow various cooldowns and resources to down someone over the course of 30 seconds and all his mate has to do in order to negate that effort is click him for 3 seconds? How dumb is that? Tell me how this is fair or balanced?

Just because it requires someone else to do it (aka. team-work) doesn’t justify it being so easy, rewardings and overpowered.

if you and your mates are good, you can bring down their health again.
or prevent them from reviving their downed team mates.
or burst down their downed team mate such that reviving is impossible unless done with a few more people. also freshly revived people have much less health.

Way to go about completely ignoring the argument. Sure there are ways to deal with it in practice. But it doesn’t change the fact that reviving from downed-state is too simple and easy compared to what it takes to down someone.

And this isn’t even touching on the downed abilities where some classes are guaranteed to deny you your stomp.

In order to stomp someone in a group fight you expose yourself to great pressure, you must be faster than the reviver, you must have the appropriate counter ability to ensure the stomp (if there even is a counter) and you need Stability to ensure no one else interrupts you. And all that just to kill someone you have already defeated in combat.

That’s just dumb.

The essence is though that a 3 second click negates an entire Pvp battle that may have lasted quite a while and involved actual skill.

why stomp them when you can burst them down even faster and more efficiently?

burning, bleeding plus burst damage, they still die none the less.

There will be some new MMO’s in 2014 that won’t have this stupid downstate.

Just be patient.

Why does this feature exist?

It’s a PVE feature. Arenanet thought it would be a good idea to turn everyone into healers. That’s how they solved the holy trinity problem. Helping someone get up from a downed state is in fact healing them.

Healing is like an eraser.

It’s a mechanic that sweeps the mistakes of bad players under the rug.

Here’s their logic behind death and healing from the developers themselves.

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

“Why should we debuff you, take away experience or make you run around for 5 minutes as a ghost instead of playing the game?”

You see… death is an inconvenience… it’s a negative experience according to Arenanet.

Thank you for that link Calae!

It’ll make a valuable resource.

Ooooh, I haven’t seen that one in ages, but looking at it again 1 year in, I could make such stimulating comments on that topic that would, without doubt, get me banned again.
Ahhh the temptation….
Ok just this one

“Instead of the traditional trinity, every Guild Wars 2 profession is self reliant”

And that is also why the game, at its very core, cannot truly be a team-oriented game, but merely a group of individuals occasionally giving each other (a bit of) support.
Although it is partially true that the great dependance on your team, which was the main feature of GW, was also one of the reasons for its pvp’s demise, going about it by completely eliminating the concept was not the way to go. It was golden, it was (apparently) unrepeatable and unique, and it was completely thrown out the window. Well, the consequences of that decision one year in speak for themselves.

inb4popping stab on stomps and dumping aoe on downed players is teamplay ok

Calae.1738:

Here’s their logic behind death and healing from the developers themselves.

http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

“Why should we debuff you, take away experience or make you run around for 5 minutes as a ghost instead of playing the game?”

“So instead we decided to force you to play a terribly-balanced and fairly pointless tic-tac-toe-level mini-game that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the rest of the combat before you can win or lose.”

“We also think it’s fun to fight 2 or 3 guys solo, to play so well you actually get all 3 of them into downed state, and if they can hit a deer in time, they can pop back up with 25% of their HP for free!!1111”

DESIGN FAIL.