Guild Wars 2

Maybe I’m not understanding this fully but is anyone else upset that they’re removing ranks and the with them the finishers? They didn’t even give a reason for it… Where are we suppose to get our sense of pride and progression?

Everything I read besides this and the fact that we aren’t going to be able to convert glory to gold was good though.

yeah i liked ranks, now it’s just heading towards the same setup WoW has.

Im assuming the change is because of all the sky hammer farmers

From what I understand, with the ladder system, someone like me who likes to play sPvP every now and then will end up having nothing to show for it. Only the players who stick to sPvP throughout the seasons will be rewarded, and only for that season at that… This whole thing sounds horrible.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up pushing people like me out of sPvP all together rather than pulling them in each season as Anet is hoping for.

hmmm i’m not very happy with the rank removal.

but what can we do about it? besides voicing out.

my rank is 31 by the way.

i play sPvP casually and i do not participate in those glory farm custom servers.

yeah personally the rank system was unique in my opinion, especially as i am a solo player so it felt more like something i could do by myself.

i hope they change there minds. no reason they can’t include ladder and keep ranks.

Justin ODell.9517:

Updated Reward System
With gear unification we will also introduce a system that allows players to set goals for rewards in PvP and work towards them. We are not ready to discuss this system in detail yet, as it is still being developed, but more information will come as we get closer to being able to release this system.

Once this new system is in place, glory will be retired as a currency, and gold will be the standard currency across the game. All existing glory vendors will be removed at this time. We will give advance warning when this is coming so you can spend all of your existing glory before that happens.

That’s the part you should keep in mind.

hmmmm okies! thanks justin!
i will look forward to them!

by the way, could we trade in our PvP boosters for other boosters of similar value? O_O

They could keep the changes to the reward system, but just not remove ranks and their finishers. Just have it as this little side progression thing, but not have it display anywhere except on your PvP menu and maybe keep the progress bar on the bottom. This way, you still get the cool new rewards, and yes glory is now gone, but rank points and the rank finishers will remain.

Justin ODell.9517:

cymerdown.4103:

They could keep the changes to the reward system, but just not remove ranks and their finishers. Just have it as this little side progression thing, but not have it display anywhere except on your PvP menu and maybe keep the progress bar on the bottom. This way, you still get the cool new rewards, and yes glory is now gone, but rank points and the rank finishers will remain.

The finishers are not going away. You will likely have until the first ladder season to earn them. After that they can’t be earned, but you will continue to have them. If all you want is additional finishers to work toward, be sure to mention that in the rewards discussion.

sorry i am not the brightest person, more need it bluntly said =P so basically ranks will be removed after X amount of months? a ladder would go for what like 6 months?

just be nice to have a rough idea to know if can pull off another 10 ranks before there removed.

Yeah, and also keep /rank and rank progression, but rewards would no longer be attached to rank. Mostly for us long time pvpers that have gotten attached to their progress and would be sad to see it disappear completely. :/

Justin ODell.9517:

Updated Reward System
With gear unification we will also introduce a system that allows players to set goals for rewards in PvP and work towards them. We are not ready to discuss this system in detail yet, as it is still being developed, but more information will come as we get closer to being able to release this system.

Once this new system is in place, glory will be retired as a currency, and gold will be the standard currency across the game. All existing glory vendors will be removed at this time. We will give advance warning when this is coming so you can spend all of your existing glory before that happens.

That’s the part you should keep in mind.

But what about the dragon finisher? ;(

Justin ODell.9517:

Sea.5732:

sorry i am not the brightest person, more need it bluntly said =P so basically ranks will be removed after X amount of months? a ladder would go for what like 6 months?

just be nice to have a rough idea to know if can pull off another 10 ranks before there removed.

Why? Would you like us to hold of releasing these changes so you have more time?

well, i think some people who are halfway towards a new finisher may wanna try and see if they can make it.

for example,
some rank 25 – 29 players may wanna try for rank 30.
they may attempt to do so if they feel like the remaining time is enough.

for myself,
i am rank 31, so i might not bother to try to rush to rank 40.
however, if i see that there are still many, many months before rank is removed, i may plan accordingly and attempt to make a rush for rank 40.

Justin ODell.9517:

Sea.5732:

sorry i am not the brightest person, more need it bluntly said =P so basically ranks will be removed after X amount of months? a ladder would go for what like 6 months?

just be nice to have a rough idea to know if can pull off another 10 ranks before there removed.

Why? Would you like us to hold off releasing these changes so you have more time?

I can’t give you a time frame because things are still being decided based on your feedback.

Please dont hold off on the changes, if anything, speed it up I dont care about finishers (I am Rank 48), I care about meaningful rewards and PvP being more fun to play.

Let’s just say that if I don’t get my r70 Phoenix (and I probably won’t), sad panda!

cymerdown.4103:

Let’s just say that if I don’t get my r70 Phoenix (and I probably won’t), sad panda!

ooo u r rank64 now?

how many rank points is required for you to increase one level of rank? O_O

150k rank points per rank

Justin ODell.9517:

Sea.5732:

sorry i am not the brightest person, more need it bluntly said =P so basically ranks will be removed after X amount of months? a ladder would go for what like 6 months?

just be nice to have a rough idea to know if can pull off another 10 ranks before there removed.

Why? Would you like us to hold off releasing these changes so you have more time?

I can’t give you a time frame because things are still being decided based on your feedback.

pretty much what above poster said, cept i’m doing 60-70 which is a longer time frame, i however would like more time because ranks were the only thing i could do in this game seeing as my internet disconnects whenever i even attempt to solo queue for some reason.

Justin ODell.9517:

Updated Reward System
With gear unification we will also introduce a system that allows players to set goals for rewards in PvP and work towards them. We are not ready to discuss this system in detail yet, as it is still being developed, but more information will come as we get closer to being able to release this system.

Once this new system is in place, glory will be retired as a currency, and gold will be the standard currency across the game. All existing glory vendors will be removed at this time. We will give advance warning when this is coming so you can spend all of your existing glory before that happens.

That’s the part you should keep in mind.

I had had 2 rewards in mind as goals. 20 slot bags for 500 glory each and a shark finisher. Am I to understand I will either not be able to get the rewards I set out PvPing for, or will have to start from scratch again? I hope I have no wasted a year of PvP trying to get these.

Justin ODell.9517:

cymerdown.4103:

They could keep the changes to the reward system, but just not remove ranks and their finishers. Just have it as this little side progression thing, but not have it display anywhere except on your PvP menu and maybe keep the progress bar on the bottom. This way, you still get the cool new rewards, and yes glory is now gone, but rank points and the rank finishers will remain.

The finishers are not going away. You will likely have until the first ladder season to earn them. After that they can’t be earned, but you will continue to have them. If all you want is additional finishers to work toward, be sure to mention that in the rewards discussion.

Could you please reply specifically to our concerns about ranks themselves being removed? What is the point of removing them altogether when they currently (with the exception of SHF ranks) give a decent indicator of a player’s experience in PvP? Being able to show off your rank is a lot better than not.

Also, I understand that finishers are not being removed yet, but what about people like myself who are only rank 30 after a year because we don’t have a lot of time to play, but have PvP’d a lot since launch? I only have one level 80 and several level 2 PvP only characters because all I do is PvP, but I haven’t had the time to hit 50+.

Basically the countless hours I’ve put into pvp to work towards a finisher is now pointless. I am rank 41 in pvp and really would’ve like to at least make shark. Revamping glory is a smart idea but why cant we still progress in rank with the ladder system in place? All the pvp veterans will have to start at 0 along with everybody else. I dedicated my gaming time to pvp for months just to get rank now rank will be worthless.

Also I’d like to know is pvp handled by a team of people? Or is it just one or two people making the decisions for everyone?

A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are. This is making the sPvP community look incredibly foolish that we’ve had people complain when it was in the print originally, have a dev point that out, and then people still complain. If we’re to be taken seriously it helps if our complaints and arguments actually start with what is true rather than rantings based on incorrect beliefs.

Don’t get me wrong, I still feel like we’re getting thrown under the bus here a little. The game has been out for a little over a year and sPvP has consistently received the short end of the stick compared amongst the 3 areas of play (WvW, PvE, and sPvP). Hell I feel like costume brawl got more attention than sPvP in the last year.

And it would now seem like those who didn’t cheese/cheat/whatever you want to call it the rank system with skyhammer farm basically get left out. But even that isn’t the core of the problem. Its been historically the case that those who don’t abuse get left out of things like this in many MMOs. Rather I feel like those who stuck with PvP in general will just get shafted. Being left with just the /rank emote and finishers isn’t enough. We’ve heard of getting to transform glory into levels, but that doesn’t really help those who either have the 80s characters we want, or just don’t care about PvE.

Most succinctly, whatever glory spending, ranks, whatever are given out in the new one, should be reflected for those who have already put in the time. If it takes ~1,000 games of play to get some reward in the new system, then those who already have ~1,000+ games should get those rewards or something of equal value. Simply leaving it at ranks emotes and finishers alone is not enough.

Admiral Zombie.8624:

A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are. This is making the sPvP community look incredibly foolish that we’ve had people complain when it was in the print originally, have a dev point that out, and then people still complain. If we’re to be taken seriously it helps if our complaints and arguments actually start with what is true rather than rantings based on incorrect beliefs.

Don’t get me wrong, I still feel like we’re getting thrown under the bus here a little. The game has been out for a little over a year and sPvP has consistently received the short end of the stick compared amongst the 3 areas of play (WvW, PvE, and sPvP). Hell I feel like costume brawl got more attention than sPvP in the last year.

And it would now seem like those who didn’t cheese/cheat/whatever you want to call it the rank system with skyhammer farm basically get left out. But even that isn’t the core of the problem. Its been historically the case that those who don’t abuse get left out of things like this in many MMOs. Rather I feel like those who stuck with PvP in general will just get shafted. Being left with just the /rank emote and finishers isn’t enough. We’ve heard of getting to transform glory into levels, but that doesn’t really help those who either have the 80s characters we want, or just don’t care about PvE.

Most succinctly, whatever glory spending, ranks, whatever are given out in the new one, should be reflected for those who have already put in the time. If it takes ~1,000 games of play to get some reward in the new system, then those who already have ~1,000+ games should get those rewards or something of equal value. Simply leaving it at ranks emotes and finishers alone is not enough.

I agree that if players current ranking and time spent pvping are reflected in the upcoming system it would make the transition much easier. I have over 2500 games played but I fear the new system will not take any of what I’ve earned into consideration. Instead we will all start back at 0. If thats not the case then my worries are unjustified but if it is the case all of the legitimate(non farmers) pvp players are getting screwed.

I’d much rather convert my banked glory into gold. Free levels just feels like a gimmick meant to use up all of our glory before it’s done away with entirely.

The state of pvp balance patches changes not only pvp but wvw and pve content. Instead of having a separate system just for pvp in play we have to deal with balance patches that change the entire game. I think thats why we have to wait so long for pvp bugs and balance issues to get patched. When a class gets nerfed its stays nerfed for months in pvp. When a class gets buffed it stays buffed for months in pvp.

Justin ODell.9517:

Admiral Zombie.8624:

A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are.

If I understand what people are saying, and I may be wrong, many people are treating ranks as more of a lifetime achievement. That is certainly something to consider in regards to the future reward system replacing them.

YES! its a lifetime achievement. Getting rid of ranks really really bad idea.

Those with achieved ranks will keep their finishers that’s cool, but I would’t be to worried about unlock based finishers.

A-net tends to reuse a lot of assets, I would not be surprised if some of the lesser achieved finishers get alternate future variations.

I’m not to worried in general even if a few things will be missed.

There will be more options (hopefully) for long time achievements. More likely unique skins.

yes justin, i view the guild wars 2 ranks system as a lifetime achievement, since i will be playing guild wars 2 casually everyday.

not in a hurry to reach the top.

i like the ranks! it shows older players to the new and of course who are more experienced.

the only thing which ruined that is the Skyhammer farmers. just rollback the farmers, implement your new system and keep ranks in.

don’t understand why you need to change the system entirely to avoid rolling the cheaters back.

Don’t remove /rank.

Don’t do it anet, I beg you.

I personally dont really care about ranks, if the new reward system is better.

The only time I ever ‘noticee’ my rNk was when I was about to hit a 10th, and even then its just for the skins, even if I Lready have everything I want :P.

An ‘easy’ fix is to keep our rank and rank points after each match, but don’t tie any rewards to it. Let that be done by the new system.

Also, I’m super excited for everything, even the december 10 :D

Edit: it seems like the new progression system is based on skill, and rewards skillfull players better than new players. The win vs lose rank points update did this too, and it only had good effects: people tried harder to win. Yea, there was alot of rage, but the community will rage regardless of… Whatever. The point is that there will always be a toxic people in the community :P

And sorry for typos, trying to type this from my phone

Justin ODell.9517:

Admiral Zombie.8624:

A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are.

If I understand what people are saying, and I may be wrong, many people are treating ranks as more of a lifetime achievement. That is certainly something to consider in regards to the future reward system replacing them.

Yes. Basicly I have been playing PvP since launch and now when you remove ranks I have nothing to show for and would actually been MUCH better off if I’ve been playing WvW och PvE only. Cause its like everyone getting a “reset”.

If rank is removed you need to give heavy recognition to players for their time. Because besides having fun we have helped PvP community to grow and we basicly have nothing to show for later on after 16 months?

Justin ODell.9517:

Admiral Zombie.8624:

A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are.

If I understand what people are saying, and I may be wrong, many people are treating ranks as more of a lifetime achievement. That is certainly something to consider in regards to the future reward system replacing them.

It’s a lifetime achievement for me, yes. I see myself steadily earning rank over the next few years (if I’m still playing). It feels good to have a goal in sPvP. The only thing that is off-putting is how back-loaded the 70-80 grind is.

I would be very disappointed if rank were to disapear.

Please keep ranks, and the ability to earn finishers via ranks.

However, perhaps don’t have them relate to the ladders and how peolpe get paired up with one another, but leave the feature in. it can sort of be a personal goal type thing, IN ADDITION to the new awesome rewards you guys will be introducing.

i don’t think the ranks themselves or the finishers were/are the issue.

if this is because of the farmers, then all will be achieved is actually rewarding them, by being able to keep the finishers, as well as punishing those who may have been slowly workign towards the next rank but decided to do it legitiamtely.

yes, i agree with akamon.

ranks will be use as a personal sPvP check point and separate from the new ladder and new rewards.

Remember that we will get an achievement based on our rank, well be able to spend our leftover glory before removing it, AND skins we already had still has value.

Source: pvp rewards blog.

Also note that the new system will probably reward skilled players. If you achieved a high rank, you probably are more skilled/experienced than. Newer player. You’ll have an advtantage, and isnt that what pvp was about for the past year? Just having fun and fighting?

Again, I dont agree with them removing rank, and I completely afree with akamon. Just wanted to point out the new system will probably be awesome :P

I to agree akamon

Sea.5732:

i like the ranks! it shows older players to the new and of course who are more experienced.

the only thing which ruined that is the Skyhammer farmers. just rollback the farmers, implement your new system and keep ranks in.

don’t understand why you need to change the system entirely to avoid rolling the cheaters back.

^ this. I couldn’t have said it better myself

Justin ODell.9517:

Updated Reward System
With gear unification we will also introduce a system that allows players to set goals for rewards in PvP and work towards them. We are not ready to discuss this system in detail yet, as it is still being developed, but more information will come as we get closer to being able to release this system.

Once this new system is in place, glory will be retired as a currency, and gold will be the standard currency across the game. All existing glory vendors will be removed at this time. We will give advance warning when this is coming so you can spend all of your existing glory before that happens.

That’s the part you should keep in mind.

I want to hear more about the rewards and goals you’re talking about before I continue my ranting here but the thing is that ranks are already part of the rewards and goals that sPvP players have settled into and I just don’t see the need to remove them rather than add upon them.

Justin ODell.9517:

If I understand what people are saying, and I may be wrong, many people are treating ranks as more of a lifetime achievement. That is certainly something to consider in regards to the future reward system replacing them.

Yes! This is exactly my feeling. I love having this lifetime achievement think, which I can work on whenever I want and not some timebased ladder system which is only lasting for a specific amount of time. Why can’t we have both? I don’t see it hurting the game if the rank system is kept, because it is basically just numbers and some finishers. (But importent numbers and finishes )

I really wanted that marauder title….

no reason to remove ranks =( kitten skyhammer farmers, they need rollback!

Only reason why I play SPvP (If I dont mention having fun while killing ppl) is get Dragon finisher eventualy but it was something what I expect to get in next two years because I havent 24/7 on that. Now its pointless. I dont care about some ladders or seasons. Especialy seasons its another time gate crap like Living Story what push ppl into instead let them chose how and when they want to play.
If you do that Justin if you removed ranks you will lose lots of remaining SPvP players much more then you get via new system.

Just to be clear justin isn’t actually in charge of the decision making. But I feel you Rozbuska I feel the same way about the changes.

Justin ODell.9517:

Admiral Zombie.8624:

A lot of people are misunderstanding what is happening. People who have earned their rank emotes and finishers will get to keep them as they are.

If I understand what people are saying, and I may be wrong, many people are treating ranks as more of a lifetime achievement. That is certainly something to consider in regards to the future reward system replacing them.

Many people use finishers/rewards as a long term goal, of course. Having that long term goal ripped out of content will understandably be met with some resistance — this is how I feel as well.

I get that going forward you wanted to give this exclusivity as a means to make up for removing ranks, but I don’t really see that method helping either group. Can’t we instead focus on ways to keep existing unlocks and blend them with future progression?

In my opinion, the more exclusivity a games sees with its rewards, the more and more you separate yourself from your target audience, new players. I know feeling left behind in rewards or unavailable achievement has left me more often than not broken, and less willing to play in the future.

Let’s build on what we have, not tear it all down and build new walls.

PS: I also love, love, love those cape unlock ideas!

As I wrote in CDI topic:

Ranks will be removed imho because they are unnecessary considering what PVP is supposed to be.
There is no competitive game (afaik) out there where you are rewarded for how long you play. Rewards are based on how good you play.
Let’s take LoL as example, since it is the most played competitive game: you have an account level, from 1 to 30, which only purpose is to be an entry barrier to ranked matches. And that is exactly how it should be in GW2 imho.

Players need skill-based rewards, not farm-based ones.

Oni Link.4621:

As I wrote in CDI topic:

Ranks will be removed imho because they are unnecessary considering what PVP is supposed to be.
There is no competitive game (afaik) out there where you are rewarded for how long you play. Rewards are based on how good you play.
Let’s take LoL as example, since it is the most played competitive game: you have an account level, from 1 to 30, which only purpose is to be an entry barrier to ranked matches. And that is exactly how it should be in GW2 imho.

Players need skill-based rewards, not farm-based ones.

I agree! But is there any reason that current rewards and finishers couldn’t be implemented in such a system as well?

I think most of the resistance stems from having long term goals ripped away with no ability to continue in the future.

I’d argue that “farm-based” rewards also have their place when you consider a wide audience that may not be in it all to win the leaderboard game. What rewards for them? I believe that these two could go hand in hand only if lines of progression and achievement are kept open on ALL levels of play, and without unnecessary time gating.

Keep the ranks & finishers around, they already are one longtime goal.
I’m not specially working towards a rank/finisher but i’d like to still be able to obtain them in the future.
I wouldn’t mind them being split from everything else and hidden in a spvp tab, only to showing up like a achievement when you level it up.
These finishers are really something that feels rewarding, unlike the old wvw achievements. (hint)