Repair Kit Port (BoK Unbalance)
The teleport tactic is being overstated. I tried it out on my mesmer (1 of 6 toons) you still have to walk up to the broken treb to lay down a port (logic , usually if you lost the treb you are ressing and if not then you werent there) then walk all the way over to the other side and pick up the kit and lay down then second port to actually teleport.
The advantage is only there if you manage to travel to the treb and from the treb to the kit. usually this will not go uninterrupted and when it works it would have saved some time but not as much as you would think.
It has a advantage (when it works) but nothing to the extend that is being complained about : The treb can be taken down in a tenth of that time
Again …when it works
It is often faster to kill a treb without killing the mesmer defending it.
It is often faster to kill a treb without killing the mesmer defending it.
It is always faster to kill the Treb. It doesn’t heal, stealth, or run away.
It is often faster to kill a treb without killing the mesmer defending it.
How is that supossed to be a excuse?
Your choice but it is obvious that you know what you are leaving behind. Leaving the mesmer standing there alive and well after killing the treb is your choice. The consequence is then yours, you cannot claim ignorance on the matter.
You cannot expect the mesmer to stand there and go owh well i wil refrain from using my skills because it was obvious that that guy was to busy to bother with me even though he is well aware of what i am capable off
(edited by Smackjack.5071)
Portal is a dumb skill that is always going to be unbalanced as long as it’s in the game and is the only skill in the game like it.
The most obvious change (besides just taking them out of the game entirely) would be to make portals take 3-5 seconds to “activate” before they can be used and giving them an hp pool.
But repair kit portal is OBVIOUSLY ridiculous and it’s truly mindboggling it hasn’t been nerfed yet.
Most classes run faster than a mesmer in some way, this teleporting saves 15 seconds or so, it’s absolutely not OP. I’d understand that you complain when a full team is teleporting through the portal to another point but if you lose to this minor advantage… jesus. If you think is that mandatory, grab a mesmer and conquer the #1th of the world.
The teleport tactic is being overstated. I tried it out on my mesmer (1 of 6 toons) you still have to walk up to the broken treb to lay down a port (logic , usually if you lost the treb you are ressing and if not then you werent there) then walk all the way over to the other side and pick up the kit and lay down then second port to actually teleport.
The advantage is only there if you manage to travel to the treb and from the treb to the kit. usually this will not go uninterrupted and when it works it would have saved some time but not as much as you would think.
It has a advantage (when it works) but nothing to the extend that is being complained about : The treb can be taken down in a tenth of that time
Again …when it works
sounds like you’re doing it all wrong then (or deliberately understating).
When I play my mesmer in Khylo repairing treb is ridiculously fast and easy. As soon as more than one person shows up to kill it you simply drop down the side, start your portal, and head for repair kit. If you run into anyone on the way you either Decoy or chuck some AI at them and they’ll be preoccupied long enough for you to grab repair kit, take portal back and repair.
I do this every time I play Khylo on my Mesmer, and I can’t come close to that kind of efficiency on any other class.
Mesmer is definitely a must have class for Khylo and, according to Anet’s intended design/balance, that’s a no-no.
Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
Pretty obvious balancing change, just remove the ability to use portals while holding the kit.
Another argument could be had over removing portals entirely from tPvP, although then you could argue that my Engineer shouldn’t have ‘free’ permanent swiftness, so I won’t go there ^^
I’m only a casual PvPer, but I have to ask… so what?
To explain:
- Both teams can do this.
- While a trebuchet can be devastating in the hands of a skilled user, kill that user if you have to. Kill them over and over.
- If you know they are going to teleport back with the kit, wait for them to return, then see previous point.
- A person at a trebuchet might kill people but they don’t capture nodes or otherwise win the game.
What is it that I am not seeing?
-Fildydarie
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
A person on the treb can definitely win a round since it makes capping the Points very easy.
If you wait for them to come back with the Kit you waste a lot of time which you could use to roam around and help other points
You don’t really need “skill” to aim with the treb and if you want to waste time killing and maybe failing to a mesmer who gonna just keep shooting after the fight (which can happen easily since shatter mesmers are still OP) it’s always faster to kill the treb.
Sure both teams CAN do this … but this again does force teams to pick a mesmer for BoK which is bull****
There just should be as already mentioned either a “No way to teleport with the repairkit” function
or an increased Cooldown to the repairkit to spawn.
Mesmers do have a sizable advantage, but there are ways to work around it.
Any staff Ele or tanky Guardian with a GS can easily kite around the treb while killing it, totally ignoring the one or two people there. If more show up, just go back and finish the job. If the Mesmer runs off to repair, just sit and wait the 5 seconds it’ll take him to come back, and kill the treb again. Boom, wasted Portal CD.
I’m sure other builds/classes have this potential. The treb blocks LOS, so kiting around it effectively negates a large portion of damage. That said, effective use of your own treb pretty much falls onto the Mesmer if you have one, and if you don’t you’re still at a disadvantage.
No, other classes and builds do not have this potential. Portal is unique. That is the problem with it: it is a bring the class skill. GW2 isn’t supposed to be a bring the class game. If you want to play that sort of game fine but everything the devs have said supports GW2 not being that kind of game.
Portal doesn’t fit with the way this game is (supposedly) designed.
No, other classes and builds do not have this potential. Portal is unique. That is the problem with it: it is a bring the class skill. GW2 isn’t supposed to be a bring the class game. If you want to play that sort of game fine but everything the devs have said supports GW2 not being that kind of game.
Portal doesn’t fit with the way this game is (supposedly) designed.
. 1 shotting thiefs
.regenerate like no one else guards and Reflect damage 100% of the time
. extra life bar necro
.beserking warrior
.Portaling mesmer
yeah only the mesmer has 1 unique skill
The teleport tactic is being overstated. I tried it out on my mesmer (1 of 6 toons) you still have to walk up to the broken treb to lay down a port (logic , usually if you lost the treb you are ressing and if not then you werent there) then walk all the way over to the other side and pick up the kit and lay down then second port to actually teleport.
The advantage is only there if you manage to travel to the treb and from the treb to the kit. usually this will not go uninterrupted and when it works it would have saved some time but not as much as you would think.
It has a advantage (when it works) but nothing to the extend that is being complained about : The treb can be taken down in a tenth of that time
Again …when it works
sounds like you’re doing it all wrong then (or deliberately understating).
When I play my mesmer in Khylo repairing treb is ridiculously fast and easy. As soon as more than one person shows up to kill it you simply drop down the side, start your portal, and head for repair kit. If you run into anyone on the way you either Decoy or chuck some AI at them and they’ll be preoccupied long enough for you to grab repair kit, take portal back and repair.
I do this every time I play Khylo on my Mesmer, and I can’t come close to that kind of efficiency on any other class.
Mesmer is definitely a must have class for Khylo and, according to Anet’s intended design/balance, that’s a no-no.
yes of course …you just race along oponents and rop a few phatasms and illusions while you run past and they will attack those , that works !! sure… of course
perfect plan right there , works great in forum pvp i admit and maybe with quite a bit of luck on new players.
Obviously a load of crock but hey ..
I’m only a casual PvPer, but I have to ask… so what?
To explain:
- Both teams can do this.
- While a trebuchet can be devastating in the hands of a skilled user, kill that user if you have to. Kill them over and over.
- If you know they are going to teleport back with the kit, wait for them to return, then see previous point.
- A person at a trebuchet might kill people but they don’t capture nodes or otherwise win the game.
What is it that I am not seeing?
No you got it pretty clear tbh.
No, other classes and builds do not have this potential. Portal is unique. That is the problem with it: it is a bring the class skill. GW2 isn’t supposed to be a bring the class game. If you want to play that sort of game fine but everything the devs have said supports GW2 not being that kind of game.
Portal doesn’t fit with the way this game is (supposedly) designed.
. 1 shotting thiefs
.regenerate like no one else guards and Reflect damage 100% of the time
. extra life bar necro
.beserking warrior
.Portaling mesmeryeah only the mesmer has 1 unique skill
None of those are “bring the class” skills. Many classes have high burst potential, not just thieves. Many classes have great support potential, not just guardians. Many classes have great ability to soak damage, not just necros. I don’t know what you’re even getting at with “berserking warrior,” that’s just lol.
Thank you for proving my point for me: there are no other “Bring the Class” skills like Mesmer portal. Although if you knew what you were talking about a little more you would have mentioned one of the few skills that arguably come close to being “bring the class” besides Portal, in particular the guardian “you shall not pass” skill on staff5.
No, other classes and builds do not have this potential. Portal is unique. That is the problem with it: it is a bring the class skill. GW2 isn’t supposed to be a bring the class game. If you want to play that sort of game fine but everything the devs have said supports GW2 not being that kind of game.
Portal doesn’t fit with the way this game is (supposedly) designed.
. 1 shotting thiefs
.regenerate like no one else guards and Reflect damage 100% of the time
. extra life bar necro
.beserking warrior
.Portaling mesmeryeah only the mesmer has 1 unique skill
None of those are “bring the class” skills. Many classes have high burst potential, not just thieves. Many classes have great support potential, not just guardians. Many classes have great ability to soak damage, not just necros. I don’t know what you’re even getting at with “berserking warrior,” that’s just lol.
Thank you for proving my point for me: there are no other “Bring the Class” skills like Mesmer portal. Although if you knew what you were talking about a little more you would have mentioned one of the few skills that arguably come close to being “bring the class” besides Portal, in particular the guardian “you shall not pass” skill on staff5.
Going by that logic then thiefs and guardians have teleport skills too.
You may have noticed that i was abit more specific then your vague notions. But if you want to do it like that then
Which class other then a thief 1 shots?
Which class other then a guardian has a 100%up passive reflect?
Which class other then a necro has a second lifebar
Yet somehow ,regardless of that you want 1 teleport removed or given to every class as long as it equals the field for you because you claim that a mesmer is the only one with a very effective and unique skill.
So how about guardian and thief teleports? Going by the logic in your previous post they posses this skill too. Less effective maybe but you just pointed out that that does not seem to matter.
“Which class other then a necro has a second lifebar?”
lifebar doesn’t degen itself and doesn’t starts at 0%, just saying
So how about guardian and thief teleports? Going by the logic in your previous post they posses this skill too. Less effective maybe but you just pointed out that that does not seem to matter.
Of course it matters. Those teleports have a range. They only teleport one person. None of them can be used in remotely the same way Portal can, either in Khylo or in WvWvW.
Your comparison is like saying everyone can DPS so even if one class did 3x as much DPS as every other class that wouldn’t be “bring the class.”
None of your examples fit. Portal is a completely unique skill. There is no other way to do what Portal does on Khylo or in W3. None. You HAVE to bring a mesmer.
You don’t have to bring a guardian to sit on a point. There are many options. You don’t have to bring a thief to kill people fast. You don’t have to bring a necro to soak damage.
You DO have to bring mesmer to be competitive using the treb. You DO have to bring a mesmer to teleport into the heart of the enemy zerg with your zerg. There is no other option if you want to do either of those two things.
Your examples are looking at specific abilities, not how to do specific tasks. Of course all classes have unique abilities. That is why they are seperate classes. What matters is there are multiple classes that can use those skills to accomplish any given task.
Portal means that certainly tasks can ONLY be done by mesmers. There is no other similar skill. The Guardian gandalf skill comes closest.
(edited by Yukishiro.8792)
So when i point out the class specific extremes in the game a.k.a “bring the class” effects you come up with :
None of those are “bring the class” skills. Many classes have high burst potential, not just thieves. Many classes have great support potential, not just guardians. Many classes have great ability to soak damage, not just necros.
and when i point it out to you yet again you come up with :
Your comparison is like saying everyone can DPS so even if one class did 3x as much DPS as every other class that wouldn’t be “bring the class.”
I hate to tell you this but that was the exact comparison that YOU made ,not me in response to my example and to which you yourself are arguing against at this moment.
I pointed out that each class has a “bring the class” benefit. Something that you for some reason simply refuse to accept and single out to just a mesmer and its single teleport skill for god knows what reason.
You might want to make up your own mind first before attempting to argue this any further.
(edited by Smackjack.5071)
Portal means that certainly tasks can ONLY be done by mesmers. There is no other similar skill. The Guardian gandalf skill comes closest.
LOL so now you start defining what is similar or not just to fit your argument?
Teleporting is teleporting the difference in the extend or range does not change this fact. To fill the role of a mesmer fetching a repair kit can and is being fullfilled by the thief just as much and just as easy. A thief does not require more time to achieve this using its skills just for this purpose any more then a mesmer is (by the time a mesmer has laid down its first portal a thief will almost be at the kit already) and also no more vulnerable then a mesmer in achieving this ,less would be the more likely answer to
this last point.
So again following the logic of your first post (not the one that contradicts yourself) no , the mesmer does not have a exclusive and uniquely effective role in this. Which as a reminder was what this was all about.
No each class does not have a “bring the class” benefit. None of those things are “bring the class” skills because none of them allow one single class to accomplish a specific task when no other class can come close.
If you want someone to sit on a node you can pick a guardian or an engi or a necro or an elementalist or even a warrior. You don’t have to pick a guardian. They all have different tools and one may be marginally more effective than the other but it’s not as if guardian is the only viable choice to sit on a node.
There is no other viable choice to man a treb. Mesmer is just much, much better than any other class. Similarly, there is no other class if you want to portal onto the enemy as a group in w3. No other class has a a skill that is even remotely comparable. You mentioned single target fixed range teleports. That you even think that is a serious ccomparison shows about all there is to say about your judgment.
For the third time, you keep ignoring the best example of another “bring the class” skill: staff 5 on guardian. That is the only other skill in the game that comes close to being “bring the class.” A guardian using staff 5 can block off access to a point in a way no other class can. Is it as powerful as Mesmer portal? Well no. But it’s still arguably in the region of “bring the class” in that no other class can do something similar.
Teleporting is teleporting the difference in the extend or range does not change this fact. To fill the role of a mesmer fetching a repair kit can and is being fullfilled by the thief just as much and just as easy. A thief does not require more time to achieve this using its skills just for this purpose any more then a mesmer is (by the time a mesmer has laid down its first portal a thief will almost be at the kit already) and also no more vulnerable then a mesmer in achieving this ,less would be the more likely answer to
this last point.So again following the logic of your first post (not the one that contradicts yourself) no , the mesmer does not have a exclusive and uniquely effective role in this. Which as a reminder was what this was all about.
just lol. a thief cannot man a treb as well as a mesmer. that is just wrong factually. you can time it yourself if you want. a thief (or an ele) takes about 15-20 seconds longer to do a repair run than a mesmer does.
No each class does not have a “bring the class” benefit. None of those things are “bring the class” skills because none of them allow one single class to accomplish a specific task when no other class can come close.
This whole argument fell into the water where i pointed out how a thief can repair the treb in a similar time frame as a mesmer.
Yeah sure it is easy to just say uh huh huh lawl durrr it takes a thief at least twentyy!!1 seconds longer to do that but that is all you have ..nothing really.
As per your example
A mesmer does not have to walk all the way up to the treb to place the first portal it can place it at the base
ok
By the time a mesmer even reaches that spot a thief is just one corner away of picking up the kit , teleport skill and all , and no CD’s and fast ini regen and a 25% passive speed boost.
By the time the mesmer even arives the thief is already able to look up at the treb passing by the mesmers portal.
When the mesmer finally goes through his portal he still has to walk around (unless you want to place the portal in the middle of the entry point at the trebs base for everyone to see) and up around to the treb.
I have a thief , i have a mesmer and 4 other toons.
My bet is on the thief actually arriving there faster but lets humor you and say it actually arives 3 seconds later,it makes the mes not the unique “bring the class” class for treb repairs.
So again no, a mesmer is not unique in this role.
That will be all ,lol.
(edited by Smackjack.5071)
I think it will be all. You are just wrong factually. There’s nothing to really discuss. You can tell me the population of the U.S. is 600 million too and there’s nothing more I can say but “that’s not true.”
No each class does not have a “bring the class” benefit. None of those things are “bring the class” skills because none of them allow one single class to accomplish a specific task when no other class can come close.
This whole argument fell into the water where pointed out how a thief can repair the treb in a similar time frame as a mesmer.
Yeah sure it is easy to just say uh huh huh lawl durrr it takes a thief at least twentyy!!1 seconds longer to do that but that is all you have ..nothing really.
As per your example
A mesmer does not have to walk all the way up to the treb to place the first portal it can place it at the baseok
By the time a mesmer even reaches that spot a thief is just one corner away of picking up the kit , teleport skill and all , and no CD’s and fast ini regen and a 25% passive speed boost.
By the time the mesmer even arives the thief is already able to look up at the treb.
When the meser finally goes through his potal he still has to walk around (unless you want to place the portal in the middle of the entry point at the trebs base for everyone to see) and up around to the treb.
I have a thief , i have a mesmer and 4 other toons.
My bet is on the thief actually arriving there faster but lets humor you and say it actually arives 3 seconds later,it makes the mes not the unique “bring the class” class for treb repairs.
So again no, a mesmer is not unique in this role.
That will be all ,lol.
It’s not all about speed.
A thief has to make the run back with their location being announced, without weapon skills, and can be jumped as they run back to their treb. A competent team could discover which route you are taking back to the treb and have a roamer intercept you mid way through before you reach it.
A mesmer can just portal back the second they pick up the kit and be vulnerable (no weapon skills, location known map wide) for a much shorter amount of time. It is difficult to intercept a mesmer who portals back unless you stay on them at all times while they make the run there, or you camp their exit and can stunlock/push them away from the trebuchet, forcing the opposing team to dedicate a player to stop you.
A mesmer skips most of the difficult part of running back the repair kit, any other character has to run back and forth. Some characters can teleport back to a certain extent to mask their location, but not as effectively or at such a large distance as a Mesmer can.