Guild Wars 2

This is skill that takes out around 40% of the hp bar, while CCing you in the process, but by the time you see the animation it’s already too late to react to it.

There needs to be at least half a second of a windup animation for this attack if the damage and CC is going to remain the same, either that or the damage/cc needs to be toned down on this skill.

And before anyone says you can counter it with stability, the rev is obviously going to use it when you have either no stability or only 1-2 stacks of stability since those would be stripped easily by the attack.

You should obviously anticipate it and dodge Kappa

Of course, I should just save all my dodges for when they switch to staff and spam them until they leave staff.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Of course, I should just save all my dodges for when they switch to staff and spam them until they leave staff.

Nah, you should be better then this, you should predict them swapping to staff within the animation of UA.

What are you talking about? I mean: okay, its a 3,8 damage skill on 600 range, but it only deals full damage if you manage to line it up straight. The skill is obviously really hard to hit, so it needs that kind of damage to compensate.
The evade frame of 1 second makes it of course uncounterable and uninteruptable, but they can predict when it ends, and prepare a hit for when the skill ends, if they are not knocked down that is.
If I have a hard hitting cc skill that I have to spend ressources on, the least I can expect is for the skill to be completely safe to use, like every good key skill.
And the knockback? Hard cc, sure, but 120 second knockback? Novadays everything below at least a 2 sec stun is completely useless. So would it be too much to ask for a useful effect pls? And as you said: it can even be avoided by stability or dodges. So what about applying it several times during the animation? It sucks to acutally USE A SKILL because your passive effects arent enough to kill your enemy, and then they eventually escape.

Wait…gotta try this again, gonna not be so sarcastic…For real tho, the skill cataloque of rev looks like the ‘rules’ I came up with for my own tabletop units 5 years ago: whatever people would usually use to counter my stuff has to be prevented, any means neccessary.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

This is skill that takes out around 40% of the hp bar, while CCing you in the process, but by the time you see the animation it’s already too late to react to it.

There needs to be at least half a second of a windup animation for this attack if the damage and CC is going to remain the same, either that or the damage/cc needs to be toned down on this skill.

And before anyone says you can counter it with stability, the rev is obviously going to use it when you have either no stability or only 1-2 stacks of stability since those would be stripped easily by the attack.

You add counterplay to Staff 5 after you add counter play to reaper insane condi pressure or scrapper sustain.

Have dodge prec strike, have to dodge UA, have to dodge staff5, have to dodge AA – that is a lot of dodges……

i dont like defending revs, coz i think its really powerful skill but u can tell when a rev switch weapons, its also one of the first skill the use upon switching.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i dont like defending revs, coz i think its really powerful skill but u can tell when a rev switch weapons, its also one of the first skill the use upon switching.

Only bad revs will be this predictable.

It doesn’t take a dodge or a power to avoid most of the damage from Rev Staff 5. You can avoid at least half the damage simply by choosing a better way to move.

That is… it has counter play already: don’t run directly at a revenant wielding a staff. Strafe a little while running at the Rev: the initial hit and knockback will move your character more sideways than backwards, and thus the following attacks are each increasingly less likely to hit you.

this weapon skill is balanced its only l2p issue

Actually this skill could use 50% nerf but as tradeoff it should be ground targeted like whirlwind. Staff wasnt supposed to be damage weapon after all, it was meant to be utility wep focused on survival/support.

Asrat.2645:

If I have a hard hitting cc skill that I have to spend ressources on, the least I can expect is for the skill to be completely safe to use, like every good key skill.

hah say that to half the warrior ccs. the fact is that the skill doesnt behave like anything else.

Hunter.4783:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

This is skill that takes out around 40% of the hp bar, while CCing you in the process, but by the time you see the animation it’s already too late to react to it.

There needs to be at least half a second of a windup animation for this attack if the damage and CC is going to remain the same, either that or the damage/cc needs to be toned down on this skill.

And before anyone says you can counter it with stability, the rev is obviously going to use it when you have either no stability or only 1-2 stacks of stability since those would be stripped easily by the attack.

You add counterplay to Staff 5 after you add counter play to reaper insane condi pressure or scrapper sustain.

can you kitten off with reaper condi pressure when mesmer have 2x more condi pressure than reaper moa , 1 milion blocks, blink and portal?

It does have counter play.
1) Stability
2) They have terrible heals. Survive the up front damage and disengage if you see green.
3) Corruption..that many boons even if they don’t want them. Its begging for it.
4) Its called cripple/chill/terror or any condition for that matter. Let’s face it, rev’s just aren’t good with dealing conditions.

Your looking at one thing that one weapon does strongly, but not at the myriad of weaknesses. It is kinda one of those things, I didn’t see people complaining that unrelenting assault doesn’t work if they are close to a wall or obstacle..they only QQ what upsets their play style, and not what is genuinely not working or broken.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

It does have counter play.
1) Stability
2) They have terrible heals. Survive the up front damage and disengage if you see green.
3) Corruption..that many boons even if they don’t want them. Its begging for it.
4) Its called cripple/chill/terror or any condition for that matter. Let’s face it, rev’s just aren’t good with dealing conditions.

Your looking at one thing that one weapon does strongly, but not at the myriad of weaknesses. It is kinda one of those things, I didn’t see people complaining that unrelenting assault doesn’t work if they are close to a wall or obstacle..they only QQ what upsets their play style, and not what is genuinely not working or broken.

Too bad most people aren’t this clever, there’s always one new thing to complain about. Endless cycle.

Belial.9350:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i dont like defending revs, coz i think its really powerful skill but u can tell when a rev switch weapons, its also one of the first skill the use upon switching.

Only bad revs will be this predictable.

i might be wrong, but why would a rev, switch to staff during fight? either they use skill 5 to CC, or skill 3 to disengage. dont tell me a rev would rather AA me with staff than AA with s/sh?

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

Belial.9350:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

i dont like defending revs, coz i think its really powerful skill but u can tell when a rev switch weapons, its also one of the first skill the use upon switching.

Only bad revs will be this predictable.

i might be wrong, but why would a rev, switch to staff during fight? either they use skill 5 to CC, or skill 3 to disengage. dont tell me a rev would rather AA me with staff than AA with s/sh?

To drill u into the wall ?

Revenant is probably the third or fourth best class since its ability to trigger combo fields is a bit lacking apart from staff 4 but its many interrupts and evades catapult it to this level. Thief staff 5 is an evade and is basically an on demand leap finisher while thief also has black powder meaning a revenant or druid can use their staff abilities (staff 3 druid staff 4 rev) to stealth within it. Thief also has an evade and heal packed into withdraw and an interrupt built into an instant teleport so thief is quite better than its reputation.

Elementalists could lay combo fields but apart from earth staff 2 can’t really trigger them and even then earth staff 2 triggers other people’s combo fields since your own fields don’t lasts long enough. Engineer however not only can lay a good amount of combo fields but trigger them themselves in addition to lots of passive invulnerabilities.

Rev need strong nerfhammer but Anet can’t do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

It does have counter play.
1) Stability
2) They have terrible heals. Survive the up front damage and disengage if you see green.
3) Corruption..that many boons even if they don’t want them. Its begging for it.
4) Its called cripple/chill/terror or any condition for that matter. Let’s face it, rev’s just aren’t good with dealing conditions.

Your looking at one thing that one weapon does strongly, but not at the myriad of weaknesses. It is kinda one of those things, I didn’t see people complaining that unrelenting assault doesn’t work if they are close to a wall or obstacle..they only QQ what upsets their play style, and not what is genuinely not working or broken.

I am pretty sure you need like 5 stacks of stability.
If you stun break while caught in it, it just keeps going and you get stunned again.

Revenants defending this obviously broken skill of their obviously broken class, hilarious.

Ragnarox.9601:

Rev need strong nerfhammer but Anet can’t do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

Dh need strong nerfhammer to their braindead 100% passive playstyle but Anet cant do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

See what i did here? Im sorry, expansion was released few months ago. Ill better move on before i catch some kitten.

Burtnik.5218:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rev need strong nerfhammer but Anet can’t do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

Dh need strong nerfhammer to their braindead 100% passive playstyle but Anet cant do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

See what i did here? Im sorry, expansion was released few months ago. Ill better move on before i catch some kitten.

People who believe, dragonhunters should be nerfed have never left emerald. And I say that as a thief, who is hardcountered by that class.
Everything but warriors needs to be nerfed right now. Some insignificantly, some strongly. Dragonhunter is one of the few classes, that only needs minor nerfs.
They also call them noobhunter, mostly because counterplay is incredibly easy.

This topic is honestly silly. If you have any issues with a revenant using staff you seriously need to l2p. I’ve fought many revenants during the last seasons and I can’t remember being seriously hit by SotM

Varezenem.2813:

This topic is honestly silly if you have any issues with a revenant using staff you seriously need to l2p.

another rev spotted

Asrat.2645:

Burtnik.5218:

Ragnarox.9601:

Rev need strong nerfhammer but Anet can’t do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

Dh need strong nerfhammer to their braindead 100% passive playstyle but Anet cant do that cause HOT sales will drop down drastically.

See what i did here? Im sorry, expansion was released few months ago. Ill better move on before i catch some kitten.

People who believe, dragonhunters should be nerfed have never left emerald. And I say that as a thief, who is hardcountered by that class.
Everything but warriors needs to be nerfed right now. Some insignificantly, some strongly. Dragonhunter is one of the few classes, that only needs minor nerfs.
They also call them noobhunter, mostly because counterplay is incredibly easy.

I was legend 2x in s1 basically as soloQ, made it to diamond this season and stopped playing gw2 as i moved on to another game till they dont fix basic stuff with rev. I have no issues stomping dh into dirt, what i did was counter reply to kitten post. Who still keep playing low skill classes like dh btw? Obviously low skill people that comes to forum and complains 24/7 about anything that kills them.

Burtnik.5218:

I was legend 2x in s1 basically as soloQ, made it to diamond this season and stopped playing gw2 as i moved on to another game till they dont fix basic stuff with rev. I have no issues stomping dh into dirt, what i did was counter reply to kitten post. Who still keep playing low skill classes like dh btw? Obviously low skill people that comes to forum and complains 24/7 about anything that kills them.

Ohh, I get it. Sry for the mixup.

Krysard.1364:

You should obviously anticipate it and dodge Kappa

That requires being able to see what the enemy does. You can’t most of the time. When there isn’t too much visual clutter, ANet has sacrificed too much balance for the sake of ‘fluent combat’. So most weapon skills have little or no activation time. Yes, they so do feel nice and fluent when fighting, but they are not so fun when you are on the other side of that.

You could try and predict they’ll use it because they are positioning themselves in front of enemies. But if they are already positioned it will happen with no warning.

To have decent combat, you need a tempo. There has to be a rythm. Patterns. Like with the slow autoattacks like hammer and mace. They sure are slow, and they are very easy to predict and avoid. But that’s precisely one of the things that makes using them require skill over just mashing a few keys that pop an endless stream of hits.

You need a hearbeat, not a blink.

I don’t see anything wrong with staff 5 on Rev, it counters my Necro but it’s useless against my Mes….

It’s a strait line attack, and I get the feeling people don’t like staff 5 Rev because they are playing a class such as necro (flavor of the month META) and not getting the easy IWIN button smashing games they were hoping for.

sephiroth.4217:

I don’t see anything wrong with staff 5 on Rev, it counters my Necro but it’s useless against my Mes….

It’s a strait line attack, and I get the feeling people don’t like staff 5 Rev because they are playing a class such as necro (flavor of the month META) and not getting the easy IWIN button smashing games they were hoping for.

isent that what the rev is.?? flavor and OP , you might counter it on mess but rev still broken. and so is mes

sephiroth.4217:

I don’t see anything wrong with staff 5 on Rev, it counters my Necro but it’s useless against my Mes….

Yeah hmm I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that you have over 9000 evades/blocks? Sadly not everyone has this.

Hunter.4783:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

This is skill that takes out around 40% of the hp bar, while CCing you in the process, but by the time you see the animation it’s already too late to react to it.

There needs to be at least half a second of a windup animation for this attack if the damage and CC is going to remain the same, either that or the damage/cc needs to be toned down on this skill.

And before anyone says you can counter it with stability, the rev is obviously going to use it when you have either no stability or only 1-2 stacks of stability since those would be stripped easily by the attack.

You add counterplay to Staff 5 after you add counter play to reaper insane condi pressure or scrapper sustain.

We could actually introduce some revenant-bingo for nonsense-argumentations. Everytime someone says you have to nerf overtuned scrapper/reaper skills BEFORE you are allowed to nerf overtuned revenant skills we’ll have a winner.

Hunter you are a winner!

I don’t even know why it has this evade frame, honestly. And the fact that it breaks more than one stability stack breaks the whole logic of the game (not counting slick shoes; this one is also a problem).

Last time I checked, Warrior’s GS5 is not a dodge. Not every dashcloser needs to be an evade frame.

Alekt.5803:

I don’t even know why it has this evade frame, honestly. And the fact that it breaks more than one stability stack breaks the whole logic of the game (not counting slick shoes; this one is also a problem).

Last time I checked, Warrior’s GS5 is not a dodge. Not every dashcloser needs to be an evade frame.

While I agree with you, the skill is closer to GS3 which IS an evade and can also do a ton of damage (albeit not a CC).

Amityel.5324:

this weapon skill is balanced its only l2p issue

Last time I’ve read this was when DHs tried to explain me 9k test of Faith is balanced.

Rev needs an allround nerf. The ability to have longer quickness as with a timewarp, the elite skill with 98530503 years cooldown, (we are speaking of 1 tw with pvp settings, basicly no bonus stats in concentration), and some other things are just a nightmare. Not to mention sword #3 which has likely infinite gap closer range. A skill that can chase you at maxium portal range (5000?!) is what the devs actually call ‘balanced’..

Staff 5 needs a precast time of at least 3/4 sec with a visible effect. It can deal more dmg as DHs True Shot, has one of the strongest cc you can have in pvp, and has invul for 1 sec.

Rev is just the overfeeded beloved child which has been created to force ppl to buy the addon. When the next comes, you can count me out. Im definitively not going to bother this mindless upgrade cancer one more time.

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

Amityel.5324:

this weapon skill is balanced its only l2p issue

Last time I’ve read this was when DHs tried to explain me 9k test of Faith is balanced.

Rev needs an allround nerf. The ability to have longer quickness as with a timewarp, the elite skill with 98530503 years cooldown, (we are speaking of 1 tw with pvp settings, basicly no bonus stats in concentration), and some other things are just a nightmare. Not to mention sword #3 which has likely infinite gap closer range. A skill that can chase you at maxium portal range (5000?!) is what the devs actually call ‘balanced’..

Staff 5 needs a precast time of at least 3/4 sec with a visible effect. It can deal more dmg as DHs True Shot, has one of the strongest cc you can have in pvp, and has invul for 1 sec.

Rev is just the overfeeded beloved child which has been created to force ppl to buy the addon. When the next comes, you can count me out. Im definitively not going to bother this mindless upgrade cancer one more time.

This post is so disingenuous that it’s physically painful.

I would rather it just a more obvious tell. Warriors still set the gold standard for having well designed tells. Even if the attack becomes easier to avoid you still get the benefit of the evade. Sadly in HoT some of the best attacks have some of the easiest to miss tells. A lot of this comes down to the fact that they still need to tone down the visual noise of many skills. The game has some beautiful animations but they’re often too overblown.

Small flashes and small but very detailed skills will make the battlefield much easier to read and from a Esports aspect it would also make it more watchable.

Staff 5 needs a precast time of at least 3/4 sec with a visible effect.

That would defeat the purpose of the skill as an interrupt though and already has a long cooldown. It should also keep its evade because lots of abilities are AoE traps and its use as an evade gives it counterplay.

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

I don’t even know why it has this evade frame, honestly. And the fact that it breaks more than one stability stack breaks the whole logic of the game (not counting slick shoes; this one is also a problem).

Last time I checked, Warrior’s GS5 is not a dodge. Not every dashcloser needs to be an evade frame.

While I agree with you, the skill is closer to GS3 which IS an evade and can also do a ton of damage (albeit not a CC).

I bolded the most important part.

Alekt.5803:

Malchior.5732:

Alekt.5803:

I don’t even know why it has this evade frame, honestly. And the fact that it breaks more than one stability stack breaks the whole logic of the game (not counting slick shoes; this one is also a problem).

Last time I checked, Warrior’s GS5 is not a dodge. Not every dashcloser needs to be an evade frame.

While I agree with you, the skill is closer to GS3 which IS an evade and can also do a ton of damage (albeit not a CC).

I bolded the most important part.

Yes, I realize that.
GS5 is still not what Staff 5 should be compared to.
Actually, you shouldn’t compare these weapons or professions at all.

It certainly comes across as another one of the many skills on Revenant that seems to have been balanced around the lack of weapon swapping.

It’s quite funny in WvW. Phase Traversal + Surge of the Mists is often enough to completely down someone who is unaware and without stability.

Staff#5 isn’t nearly as problematic as the uncounterable, uninterruptable and high damaging Sword#3… how are people not mentioning this skill instead?

Saiyan.1704:

Staff#5 isn’t nearly as problematic as the uncounterable, uninterruptable and high damaging Sword#3… how are people not mentioning this skill instead?

Because it is technically counterable and interruptable during it’s 3/4s cast time and 450 range.

just nerf the damage a bit and increase the cd but dont get rid of the evade or cc.

Agemnon.4608:

Staff 5 needs a precast time of at least 3/4 sec with a visible effect.

That would defeat the purpose of the skill as an interrupt though and already has a long cooldown. It should also keep its evade because lots of abilities are AoE traps and its use as an evade gives it counterplay.

A simple interrupt without any casttime should not be able to saw half of your hp down.
The skill is just op because it has too many benefits in all directions.

+1 nerf rev staff also nerf sword 2

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

The skill is just op because it has too many benefits in all directions.

Thats the point. A skill can be either safe to use, strong in effect or high in damage.
The more damage and cc a skill has the a) lower its range/radius/number of targets
b) less defense it offers c)longer it takes to cast.
That is called good balancing. Im completely fine with a strong but risky skill, or with a safe but soft skill. Rev has too many that try to be both. Staff 5 is one of them.

Compare this to pistol whip for example. Less damage, weaker cc, lower range, locks you in place to be hit, can be partially avoided even without a stunbreak, has high ressource cost.
Due to Pw being spammable, I do not expect staff 5 be nerfed down to that level, but it should be a little closer.

Strafe a lot in inconsistent manner when Revenant is in Staff.

/thread

Maybe a slight damage shave AFTER other overtuned classes have their sustain and passives nerfed.