Guild Wars 2

Anyone else think the Revenant trait “Eye for an Eye” in the Retribution line needs to have its CD increased a bit ? As of now, it is a passive 3 second taunt on a 45 second CD, and it provides 5 seconds of protection.

These days CC ends up hurting me more than my enemy. Any form of AoE CC ends up being counter productive if I do not have stability popped up beforehand. Sheild 5 on Mesmer, or Slick Shoes / Hammer 5 on Engineers, and so many other AoE CCs almost always end up in the user being taunted.

I have had instances where the Revenant will teleport right into my slick shoes, and I am the one who gets punished for his mistakes.

Other professions have similar skills as well, but not a 45 sec CD. Mesmer has “Mirror of Anguish” in the Chaos trait line that pretty much does the exact same thing, but has a 60 sec CD.

I know there are bigger issues in PvP atm, but I would really like to hear what other people have to say in this matter.

^long overdue nerf. Many top players think so too.

Retaliatory Subconscious is on a 30s cd. Personally I think that attempting to weigh just these traits across classes is too myopic to be meaningful.

Well for a class that is extremely weak to CC unless in one very specific legend, and one very specific trait line (stab on roll) – No I don’t think anti-cc trait is too strong at all.

dank.3680:

Well for a class that is extremely weak to CC unless in one very specific legend, and one very specific trait line (stab on roll) – No I don’t think anti-cc trait is too strong at all.

This reminds me of an argument used to defend elementalists in the last meta.

This goes back to the bigger issue of passive abilities in general. There are too many fail safe abilities in the game and I’m relatively sure they’re there to keep the average player from getting frustrated with the game. Get stunned? No need to have any reaction time and use an ability the game will do it for you. Almost dead? Don’t need to worry about using an invulnerability, block, or heal the game will do it for you. All of that needs to be fixed, not just one trait.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

dank.3680:

Well for a class that is extremely weak to CC unless in one very specific legend, and one very specific trait line (stab on roll) – No I don’t think anti-cc trait is too strong at all.

This reminds me of an argument used to defend elementalists in the last meta.

It’s just not as strong as people whine about it being. Compare it to other similar traits and its very close in line. Thief gets 100% endurance refill on 30s cd. Necro gets aoe fear for 2s (very comparable here as both have the same counterplay – so the trade is 1s duration vs being aoe —--necro loses here as the CD is a too long 60s but still its 5 targets 360 radius) Ele gets shocking aura which can be shared can come with boons and condi clear and is on a 25s cd.

Seems pretty dang in line with other comparable traits to me.

On top of that "Involuntarily attack foes. Taunt is a condition that forces the affected target to run towards and auto-attack the souce of the taunt, with all other skills disabled except stun breakers. Taunt is like Fear in that it also counts as a control effect, meaning it can be cleared by both condition removal as well as stun breaks. "

This means, the taunt can be prevented by not only condi immunity(or resistance) but by stability, AND be reacted to by EITHER a stun break or a condi clear.

What doesn’t make sense to me, is rev’s only stability(besides an unviable legend) being tied to the same line that comes with anti-cc trait.

Why are people complaining about the amazing stability on Rev? Free stability on dodge and the trait that can make it two stacks +8 seconds is super strong especially considering how much Vigor uptime is flying around.

Just get rid of these lame auto-proc skills….

Pyriall.1683:

There are too many fail safe abilities in the game and I’m relatively sure they’re there to keep the average player from getting frustrated with the game.

Which is why they need to exist. MMOs don’t run on the pro players. Tank the average player population and the game folds. Even as a person who enjoys complex pvp I support their choices on this. I’d rather have what I view as a imperfect system that encourages lots of people to play. Then a complex 100% reaction based system that lets me play with the same 20 people that feel the same way.

Cole.3824:

Pyriall.1683:

There are too many fail safe abilities in the game and I’m relatively sure they’re there to keep the average player from getting frustrated with the game.

Which is why they need to exist. MMOs don’t run on the pro players. Tank the average player population and the game folds. Even as a person who enjoys complex pvp I support their choices on this. I’d rather have what I view as a imperfect system that encourages lots of people to play. Then a complex 100% reaction based system that lets me play with the same 20 people that feel the same way.

+1

I cant believe why this is so hard for people to understand.

Personally, I wish that fewer of the “when disabled, do X” traits proceed stunbreak skills. Traits liked Mirroed Anguish or Reaper’s Protection I feel are better for gameplay as they don’t nullify the CC, they merely prevent follow-up. The automatic stunbreaks when you need it, though just don’t feel good to me.

I also hate this trait, and its its nonsense. I honestly don’t like the passive cc or dodge to get stab. When you combine this trait with stability, the rev doesn’t get any control effect on himself, but you get taunted. It is by far the most annoying thing to deal with when playing my glass staff ele. I put down a static field, and get pulled into the point without anyone even trying. At the very least, it should only taunt you if you actually cc the rev. Otherwise, I think decreasing its duration to 2 seconds or changing it to clear the cc on the rev and grant him stab instead of taunting the enemy player.

Non-interactive stun breaks are stupid. A passive stunbreak that also hurts the source of the CC is beyond ridiculous.

Traits should either provide stats or ability/cd/mechanic tweaks. Nothing else.

The silly thing about it is that it benefits from boon duration.
And Malyx revenant who use that trait have 35% boon duration in sPvP… You get tauned for almost 5sec.

As a thief, if I try to open a revenant normally ( with steal ) I get taunted by the trait because of the daze on my steal and I die if I don’t sutnbreak. I have to headshot > stunbreak and then open, it’s kinda ridiculous.

Think about it in comparison to the ranger trait. The ranger trait put the CC on the pet instead, doesn’t cc you back, but has a LONGER CD than the revenant one.

rchu.8945:

Cole.3824:

Pyriall.1683:

There are too many fail safe abilities in the game and I’m relatively sure they’re there to keep the average player from getting frustrated with the game.

Which is why they need to exist. MMOs don’t run on the pro players. Tank the average player population and the game folds. Even as a person who enjoys complex pvp I support their choices on this. I’d rather have what I view as a imperfect system that encourages lots of people to play. Then a complex 100% reaction based system that lets me play with the same 20 people that feel the same way.

+1

I cant believe why this is so hard for people to understand.

Eh, as long as matchmaking and MMR are working correctly, eventually those average players would be matched with and against other average players. All passive skills like this do is shrink the difference between the skill floor and the skill cap of a class/build, which is opposite of what we need in a game that is so heavily dependent on player skill being the deciding factor differentiating players. New players would just come into the game, see that there is little/no depth, and feel like they have very little to improve upon, and just move on to something new.

Or the Mesmer’s “Mirror of Anguish”, BOTH the Mesmer and the caster are CC’d and its on a 60 second cd. No protection/boon or “benefit” to the Mesmer.

Nocta.5274:

The silly thing about it is that it benefits from boon duration.
And Malyx revenant who use that trait have 35% boon duration in sPvP… You get tauned for almost 5sec.

As a thief, if I try to open a revenant normally ( with steal ) I get taunted by the trait because of the daze on my steal and I die if I don’t sutnbreak. I have to headshot > stunbreak and then open, it’s kinda ridiculous.

Think about it in comparison to the ranger trait. The ranger trait put the CC on the pet instead, doesn’t cc you back, but has a LONGER CD than the revenant one.

Wait, is this accurate? Taunt effected by boon duration not condition duration?

NeXeD.3042:

Nocta.5274:

The silly thing about it is that it benefits from boon duration.
And Malyx revenant who use that trait have 35% boon duration in sPvP… You get tauned for almost 5sec.

As a thief, if I try to open a revenant normally ( with steal ) I get taunted by the trait because of the daze on my steal and I die if I don’t sutnbreak. I have to headshot > stunbreak and then open, it’s kinda ridiculous.

Think about it in comparison to the ranger trait. The ranger trait put the CC on the pet instead, doesn’t cc you back, but has a LONGER CD than the revenant one.

Wait, is this accurate? Taunt effected by boon duration not condition duration?

Wait, no I’m stupid, wrote that too fast. It’s condition duration, but they have quite a bit of it on the Viper amulet.

Taunt and fear been conditions was quite a mistake in my opinion anyway. CC should not be conditions.

Pyriall.1683:

This goes back to the bigger issue of passive abilities in general. There are too many fail safe abilities in the game and I’m relatively sure they’re there to keep the average player from getting frustrated with the game. Get stunned? No need to have any reaction time and use an ability the game will do it for you. Almost dead? Don’t need to worry about using an invulnerability, block, or heal the game will do it for you. All of that needs to be fixed, not just one trait.

I would agree with this. I’ve always disliked these auto-trigger passives. I’d prefer these traits and even things like Guardian F3 to be changed into manual functions in some manner instead.

Reikou.7068:

Eh, as long as matchmaking and MMR are working correctly, eventually those average players would be matched with and against other average players.

That’s not the issue. the issue is that it takes far less skill to blow someone up that it does to defend against getting blown up. If we didn’t have passive defensives, most of the low and mid MMR matches would just devolve into nuke fests.

Crinn.7864:

Reikou.7068:

Eh, as long as matchmaking and MMR are working correctly, eventually those average players would be matched with and against other average players.

That’s not the issue. the issue is that it takes far less skill to blow someone up that it does to defend against getting blown up. If we didn’t have passive defensives, most of the low and mid MMR matches would just devolve into nuke fests.

First of all, that’s not true. In the current meta there are maybe two builds total capable of “nuking” anything and both of them (power shatter chrono & trap DH) have already been pushed out of the meta long ago. Tempest, Scrapper, Herald, Druid, and bunker Chrono are completely incapable of being taken down by a single burst or even multiple from a single player thanks to the slew of passive defenses each has.

wanna know the reason why daredevil isn’t popular this meta? because all of it’s survival is tied to active defenses. This considerably lowers the skill floor while raising the skill ceiling at the same time; shouldn’t this be what we want in a competitive gamemode? If you want everyone to be happy and have fun regardless of skill level or time invested go play PvE or something. While you’re at it, go ahead and request anet give out the same trophies to every ESL team saying “everybody’s a winner!” and even amounts of prize money regardless of how they place if you’re this interested in turning the game into a kiddie soccer league.

It’s is the longest CC from any trait in the game. ArenaNet just cannot balance worth jack.

So yeah, it is way overtuned and needs to be nerfed.

sinject.4607:

First of all, that’s not true. In the current meta there are maybe two builds total capable of “nuking” anything and both of them (power shatter chrono & trap DH) have already been pushed out of the meta long ago. Tempest, Scrapper, Herald, Druid, and bunker Chrono are completely incapable of being taken down by a single burst or even multiple from a single player thanks to the slew of passive defenses each has.
.

Trap DH was never pushed out of mid/low MMR meta. It was only pushed out of the proleague meta.
Chrono was never in the mid/low MMR meta, because mid/low MMR players can never capitalize on alacrity, and invulns are only helpful if you know what to use them against.

Crinn.7864:

sinject.4607:

First of all, that’s not true. In the current meta there are maybe two builds total capable of “nuking” anything and both of them (power shatter chrono & trap DH) have already been pushed out of the meta long ago. Tempest, Scrapper, Herald, Druid, and bunker Chrono are completely incapable of being taken down by a single burst or even multiple from a single player thanks to the slew of passive defenses each has.
.

Trap DH was never pushed out of mid/low MMR meta. It was only pushed out of the proleague meta.
Chrono was never in the mid/low MMR meta, because mid/low MMR players can never capitalize on alacrity, and invulns are only helpful if you know what to use them against.

so what? who cares about low tier players? since when is it ok to foster an environment only conducive to the lowest common denominator’s enjoyment in a competitive setting?

you know what’s also strong in low tier? condition thief.

low mmr relevancy means literally nothing.

stop trying to baby-proof sPvP.

sinject.4607:

Crinn.7864:

sinject.4607:

First of all, that’s not true. In the current meta there are maybe two builds total capable of “nuking” anything and both of them (power shatter chrono & trap DH) have already been pushed out of the meta long ago. Tempest, Scrapper, Herald, Druid, and bunker Chrono are completely incapable of being taken down by a single burst or even multiple from a single player thanks to the slew of passive defenses each has.
.

Trap DH was never pushed out of mid/low MMR meta. It was only pushed out of the proleague meta.
Chrono was never in the mid/low MMR meta, because mid/low MMR players can never capitalize on alacrity, and invulns are only helpful if you know what to use them against.

so what? who cares about low tier players? since when is it ok to foster an environment only conducive to the lowest common denominator’s enjoyment in a competitive setting?

you know what’s also strong in low tier? condition thief.

low mmr relevancy means literally nothing.

stop trying to baby-proof sPvP.

I’m not “baby-proofing” sPvP, I’m pointing out why certain mechanics exist.

Games that punish the casuals always end up dead. Every single time.

Besides I really don’t understand why players hate the autoproc @ health% abilities. They are consistent and are not RNG and because of this can be played around.

Comparing it to Reaper’s Protection. Fear and Taunt are very similar effects and Reaper’s Protection has no boon applied, an extra 15 seconds on the cooldown and 2/3rds the duration.

If Eye for an Eye had the same it would probably be a lot more palatable but a 3sec effect is so kitten long.

dank.3680:

What doesn’t make sense to me, is rev’s only stability(besides an unviable legend) being tied to the same line that comes with anti-cc trait.

Even stranger than that is that Herald trait line has a trait that gives another stack of stability when you get one… when the ONLY way to get stability is from another trait line.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

dank.3680:

What doesn’t make sense to me, is rev’s only stability(besides an unviable legend) being tied to the same line that comes with anti-cc trait.

Even stranger than that is that Herald trait line has a trait that gives another stack of stability when you get one… when the ONLY way to get stability is from another trait line.

Or allies, or Jallis legend.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

dank.3680:

What doesn’t make sense to me, is rev’s only stability(besides an unviable legend) being tied to the same line that comes with anti-cc trait.

Even stranger than that is that Herald trait line has a trait that gives another stack of stability when you get one… when the ONLY way to get stability is from another trait line.

Or allies, or Jallis legend.

I made the comment when I felt Jalis was not viable. However I gave it some love and now like glint/jalis in a staff s/sh power build, spent quite a bit of time playing it. It does need a little bit of work to be actually *good though imo.

But senpai-sama, it counters Thief. Surely, such a rare and impossible novelty must be buffed? I propose a 0 sec icd on this trait, that its infinite range taunt be doubled in duration, and that it applies a dot that takes 50% of taunted hp’s max hp per second while taunted. Please, its the only way to fight Thieves they’re just op.

Crinn.7864:

I’m not “baby-proofing” sPvP, I’m pointing out why certain mechanics exist.

Games that punish the casuals always end up dead. Every single time.

Besides I really don’t understand why players hate the autoproc @ health% abilities. They are consistent and are not RNG and because of this can be played around.

No one is trying to “punish the casuals.” Only to reward better players. Phrasing.

Can you imagine getting taunted by mesmers trait “Mirror of Anguish” . that is just stupidest thing i witness .

Israel.7056:

Retaliatory Subconscious is on a 30s cd. Personally I think that attempting to weigh just these traits across classes is too myopic to be meaningful.

You guys stay away from guardian traits, these are bad just as they are.
All you have to do is sneeze on guard after CC and block goes down anyway. I would rather trade aegis for 5 secs of protection

Serious Thought.5394:

But senpai-sama, it counters Thief. Surely, such a rare and impossible novelty must be buffed? I propose a 0 sec icd on this trait, that its infinite range taunt be doubled in duration, and that it applies a dot that takes 50% of taunted hp’s max hp per second while taunted. Please, its the only way to fight Thieves they’re just op.

What the actual kitten nanodesunoyo?

That’s an absurd suggestion! The dot should clearly take 100%!

sinject.4607:

wanna know the reason why daredevil isn’t popular this meta? because all of it’s survival is tied to active defenses. This considerably lowers the skill floor while raising the skill ceiling at the same time; shouldn’t this be what we want in a competitive gamemode? If you want everyone to be happy and have fun regardless of skill level or time invested go play PvE or something. While you’re at it, go ahead and request anet give out the same trophies to every ESL team saying “everybody’s a winner!” and even amounts of prize money regardless of how they place if you’re this interested in turning the game into a kiddie soccer league.

You are playing an MMO, what’s more an MMO that is aimed at casual players, if you want skill you are playing the wrong game.

And whilst passive defenses are now over the top, the reality is a lot of active stuff in this game is skilless faceroll cheese also (e.g – instant teleports through walls), also if you want every class to be playing active defences then you need to put all the classes on a level playing field, which means redesigning a bunch of classes, not least thief.

No! Leave the trait like it is. Passives are interesting and healthy for This game.
You must understand some people (like me) have to work all day, and when i finally come home i do not want concentrate myself anymore. I don’t want to be good to have success in a game. All I want is a game that plays for me, like a movie. Sit down, relax and enjoy.