Guild Wars 2

And nerf proper thing which is CS. There was nothing wrong with Moa for over 3 years and it wasnt an issue. Its is your kitten overpowered chrono elite spec you designed. Why core mesmer has to pay price for it?

And no, i have not played mesmer in my life nor i like them but it hurts to see core classes getting nerfed due to crap elite spec. Elite should be balanced around core not the other way around. If we continue balancing in such fashion, with more elite spec we will have nothing but a huge mess as something will always end up being op with x combination.

Where’s your post on nerfing Revenant?

No? Okay… move on.

I agree. Once again ANet has no clue how to balance. This is not balance.

Moa has a 180 sec CD for a reason. It’s a strong, game changing skill, like an an elite should be. Nerfing the moa signet itself is not balance. That hurts EVERY OTHER BUILD that would want to use it (outside of Chronomancer).

It’s blindingly obvious it was the fact you could half the cd via CS, which only chrono has access to which made it op. So, logic says you just nerf it through CS, not the actually skill.

Also, it can be dodged and block, on top of the fact its pretty obvious when MOA was being casted due to the mesmer using CS pre-cast.

So rather than ANET saying, “L2P, thats the reason we have dodge, block mechanics, so you can counter play. MOA is a strong skill and you should be rewarded for using it (because lets face it, its pretty avoidable 1v1, less so in team fights, but it is an elite).” They now say, “ok its too hard for people to use block, dodge mechanics, hence the whining on forums, let’s just nerf the duration so you can double dodge, skill 5 through it because you failed to use your eyes and l2 dodge the cast.”

/facepalm

Just like tornado on ele is game changing.
Moa was broken in pvp even before chronomancer. The only counter to it is reflect and it leaves you as a free kill for 10 seconds. It requires no real skill but gives your team a huge advantage.

FrownyClown.8402:

Just like tornado on ele is game changing.
Moa was broken in pvp even before chronomancer. The only counter to it is reflect and it leaves you as a free kill for 10 seconds. It requires no real skill but gives your team a huge advantage.

Reflect? Or dodge, block, blind, etc. And if you say oh but stealth when everyone is copying the meta build(i.e. No stealth) you can kick a kitten. Moa has counter play. Plus the damage coefficients when in it are so high you can kill the Mesmer. Just have your team pull for you off needed. It’s not hard

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

No problem if confusion unload gets nerfed to kitten first.

You need to move beyond core specs as they’re complementary to elite specializations now. Elite specializations is the new game now. There’s no way that they’ll keep core specs on an even par with elite specializations – what’s the incentive for pvpers/wvw to buy expansion packs then?

Admittedly, this is a weird time as we only have one elite specialization to choose from but I’ll guarantee any amount of gold that it’ll be better when we get more.

You need to move past core specs being on the same field as elites. The game has so should you.

phokus.8934:

You need to move beyond core specs as they’re complementary to elite specializations now. Elite specializations is the new game now. There’s no way that they’ll keep core specs on an even par with elite specializations – what’s the incentive for pvpers/wvw to buy expansion packs then?

Admittedly, this is a weird time as we only have one elite specialization to choose from but I’ll guarantee any amount of gold that it’ll be better when we get more.

You need to move past core specs being on the same field as elites. The game has so should you.

So in future we should be ready for all core lines/skills be nerfed into ground due to multiple elite skills? Nerf to core hurts also future elite specs and guess what? If they continue nerfing core then in future they will have to create even more overpowered elite specs to make up for that. Thats what you want? Well glad i stopped playing this garbage piece of kitten so at least it wont bother me much.

I don’t really understand why people are all up in arms over changes and then they say they’ve quit this game a while back.

The nerf to Moa is perfectly acceptable and fine, even for any Mesmer who runs nostalgic glasses. 6 seconds is still quite a bit of time to coordinate damage on someone. Skills are being tuned to elites and you can bet that they’ll continue to be tuned as other elites are released.

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

You’re foolish if you think arenanet care about balancing anything that isn’t using an elite spec. That’s just how it is now.

I think more than anything, we just need a straight answer from the devs on whether they still intend elite specs to be a viable alternative to core builds rather than a straight upgrade.

Before HoT was released, we were told that elite specs wouldn’t be totally superior, but everything since release has shown this to be the case, aside from a very small number of exceptions (Condi engi in PvE and D/D thief in PvE since the last patch).

As it is now, we’re getting really mixed signals. Some of the balance changes from the Spring Update cited buffs to core trait lines to make non-elite builds more viable, but changes like this seem to be aimed at balancing around the elite spec, even at the cost of the core profession.

If elites are supposed to just be better than core builds, just say it. Tell us that you need to make HoT an upgrade to sell copies and stay profitable. If this isn’t the case and the devs still don’t want HoT to be a necessity for competitive PvP, then we need to see some major actions to back up those words.

Because right now, this lack of direction is causing nothing but trouble in the community.

What they really should have done is give Moa a mediocre healing skill with instant cast time.. Making it way less op in 1v1 scenarios and keep it just the same in Xv1 ambush situations.
Being locked out of of all your skills relying only on traits and amulets for survival promoted powercreep and bunker vs mes. This skill shouldn’t have existed in PvP in the first place but if we have to keep it at least give the the helpless moa some decent survival options. (Maybe even clear Condi’s on transformation/ 1.5 sec invul after morph to adjust)

FrownyClown.8402:

Just like tornado on ele is game changing.
Moa was broken in pvp even before chronomancer. The only counter to it is reflect and it leaves you as a free kill for 10 seconds. It requires no real skill but gives your team a huge advantage.

Polymorphs are bullkitten and overpowered period end of story. If you get MOA’D its pretty much a death sentence and your right it involves very little skill. It should be totally rewored for pvp only at the very least but A-net doesn’t have the guts as usual. It’s a crap skill and the game would be better without it.

This was a nerf well done. There isn’t much wrong with CS and a nerf to CS hurts weaker Mesmer builds, which would pidgeon hole Mesmer even more

No, the nerf to Moa is just about right. The 10s Moa was fine pre-HoT, but the elite specs can do too much damage to a fluffy little bird in 10s. If the mesmer times CS right, he can still dish out 12s of fluffy birdness, which is more than enough to mash someone into the ground.

20s of Moa with CS is silly. Mercenary Mesmer is still really strong so this is a nice shave.

Archon.6480:

No, the nerf to Moa is just about right. The 10s Moa was fine pre-HoT, but the elite specs can do too much damage to a fluffy little bird in 10s. If the mesmer times CS right, he can still dish out 12s of fluffy birdness, which is more than enough to mash someone into the ground.

20s of Moa with CS is silly. Mercenary Mesmer is still really strong so this is a nice shave.

You didnt read what i said at all, right? #gw2forum

I see three potential solutions:

1. Simply reduce the CD of the skill.

2. Change the duration back but up the casting time significantly.

3. Change the effect of the skill altogether.

10s moa was too much after power creep.

Burtnik.5218:

Archon.6480:

No, the nerf to Moa is just about right. The 10s Moa was fine pre-HoT, but the elite specs can do too much damage to a fluffy little bird in 10s. If the mesmer times CS right, he can still dish out 12s of fluffy birdness, which is more than enough to mash someone into the ground.

20s of Moa with CS is silly. Mercenary Mesmer is still really strong so this is a nice shave.

You didnt read what i said at all, right? #gw2forum

I did, so i’ll answer on his behalf.

We all can agree that Core classes needs a buff and/or Elite specs needs a shave for the sake of build diversity, but the nerf to Moa was in the right direction.

Moa 10s cd was quite strong with CS. Players would either get blown up before moa ended or they were a few seconds shy of using a skill. The reason why CS wasn’t nerfed was because they didn’t want other Mesmer CS combos nerfed in the process… Anet weighed their options.

Yes, everything that’s Core needs a buff but this was strictly about CS + moa combo effect and their nerf had to not effect other items. If Anet truly wanted to buff core builds, they would have. And if they ever do, the moa nerfs are here to stay. The same goes for all core nerfs they’ve already done.

How is it that people don’t understand moa without cs is complete garbage. This shouldn’t be debatable. It’s comparable to engi’s toolbelt (i repeat: toolbelt) skill, which has lower cd and is aoe to make up for the lower duration. And engi still has an elite skill besides that.

Now i know why there were no nerfs to mesmers in the balance patch post-season 2. They didn’t want to do anything to CS and they knew nerfing moa was a bad idea

A skill on 3 min cd that makes someone 6 sec a Moa (you can still dodge and you also have the 5 skill that dodges while in moa form – or better yet dodge the kitten ed skill altogether which seems to be deemed impossible by 95% of the people even though the animation and casting time are quite forgiving) with the worst passive effect for a signet in the whole game is not an elite skill.

I’ll bet you gravity well will replace moa in meta. The whole problem here is that mesmers still stay as the strongest current class so this really doesn’t do kitten for anyone except those that still kitten their pants when they get moa, get their hands of the keyboard and yell ‘OP bullkitten’.

What a load of bullkitten.

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.

I understand your passion on this topic, so I ask you work with me in getting to the big picture of this nerf.

I argue Toss Elixir X should be inferior to SoH because of the following:

• Projectile-based: susceptible to reflects and projectile nullification and the risk is proportional to distance from the target.
• 3s duration: the victim can use #5, #2, and one dodge to kite and mitigate potential burst for nearly the full duration.
• 96s cooldown: comprehensively, Toss Elixir X has a 192s cooldown to get 6s of effect. The immediate counter argument here is an engi has two opportunities to moa. The problem there is 3s against a competent victim who can kite is too short to take advantage.

That last point is important. I think us PvPers generally agree that moa is a kill setup elite. It is meant to ensure a low health target goes down and the perfect example is a <20% hp, 100% shroud necro. The blessing of SoH is twice the window of opportunity compared to Toss Elixir X to burst and down the target. Additionally, CS expands the window if your team was not coordinated enough in the first attempt.

Losing four seconds in that window is significant, but everyone else will still respect it. In the grand scheme I can’t imagine mesmers subbing out SoH. I think the change did not alter the intent and dynamic of the skill because the most opportune moment to pop this elite is against a low health target; only now even lower.

Sean.8921:

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.

I understand your passion on this topic, so I ask you work with me in getting to the big picture of this nerf.

I argue Toss Elixir X should be inferior to SoH because of the following:

• Projectile-based: susceptible to reflects and projectile nullification and the risk is proportional to distance from the target.
• 3s duration: the victim can use #5, #2, and one dodge to kite and mitigate potential burst for nearly the full duration.
• 96s cooldown: comprehensively, Toss Elixir X has a 192s cooldown to get 6s of effect. The immediate counter argument here is an engi has two opportunities to moa. The problem there is 3s against a competent victim who can kite is too short to take advantage.

That last point is important. I think us PvPers generally agree that moa is a kill setup elite. It is meant to ensure a low health target goes down and the perfect example is a <20% hp, 100% shroud necro. The blessing of SoH is twice the window of opportunity compared to Toss Elixir X to burst and down the target. Additionally, CS expands the window if your team was not coordinated enough in the first attempt.

Losing four seconds in that window is significant, but everyone else will still respect it. In the grand scheme I can’t imagine mesmers subbing out SoH. I think the change did not alter the intent and dynamic of the skill because the most opportune moment to pop this elite is against a low health target; only now even lower.

You are missing that Elixir is AoE. 180 seconds vs 96 is a verryyy large margin. Elixir can make more clutch moments in a single game than moa. Resses, Stomps. The nerf to moa was super brainless.

You know whats more brainless, giving engie an AoE moa on a way lower cooldown.

StickerHappy.8052:

You are missing that Elixir is AoE. 180 seconds vs 96 is a verryyy large margin. Elixir can make more clutch moments in a single game than moa. Resses, Stomps. The nerf to moa was super brainless.

You know whats more brainless, giving engie an AoE moa on a way lower cooldown.

I’m glad you picked up on that.

Toss Elixir X’s AoE potential is only as good as succeeding in the toss. For example, I use Defense Field to negate Toss Elixir X attempts, and eles typically cast Swirling Winds just before attempting reses.

Furthermore when a character is transformed after initiating the res or stomp it will not interrupt either one.

At least with SoH the reser or stomper has to take 3s more of a calculated risk without access to invulns/stabilities/etc.

Do yourselves a favor and just move on… you’ll have a happier life, trust. I still can’t decide which is worse, the forced predetermined builds or the devs listening to players that have still yet to locate their dodge key. Every patch is the same story with the same end result where one will supersede the others and it’ll all be labeled as " BUILD DIVERSITY".

Inevitably the german mod will find this post “rude to other players” – I ragret nothing!!!!

There has always been a problem with moa. Always.

Now, if you play solo Q, on whatever level, chances are you wont be very coordinated and 10 seconds might even feel like a short time since people are hardly ever organized enough to burst the focused player down fast enough.

However, in organized play and the higher ranks 10 seconds is a HUGE window of opportunity and chances are the individual targeted will die within 3-4 seconds unless supported.

So yes, a nerf was needed. Considering its, again, 10 seconds that player cant do anything.

Now lets get some counter arguments going:
“But its 180 CD! Its so long, it should be impactful!” – Wrong, its 90 sec, always used with CS (not even counting the alacrity on that CS)
“Moa has been fine so far!” – No, it hasnt, it was the go-to elite in organized play like.. Always.. And thats for a reason.
“Nerf CS instead!” – Dont, its what makes the class unique, and even so, longer CD doesnt affect moa at all unless the CD is over 180 and at that point CS would be pretty useless on its own.
“Elite specs” – Elite specs NEED to be more powerful than the core, that is what makes them elite. When they add more elite specs, it will make sense.

Now lets move on and evolve!

phokus.8934:

You need to move beyond core specs as they’re complementary to elite specializations now. Elite specializations is the new game now. There’s no way that they’ll keep core specs on an even par with elite specializations – what’s the incentive for pvpers/wvw to buy expansion packs then?

Admittedly, this is a weird time as we only have one elite specialization to choose from but I’ll guarantee any amount of gold that it’ll be better when we get more.

You need to move past core specs being on the same field as elites. The game has so should you.

Gw2…officially pay to win.

Taltevus.3289:

phokus.8934:

You need to move beyond core specs as they’re complementary to elite specializations now. Elite specializations is the new game now. There’s no way that they’ll keep core specs on an even par with elite specializations – what’s the incentive for pvpers/wvw to buy expansion packs then?

Admittedly, this is a weird time as we only have one elite specialization to choose from but I’ll guarantee any amount of gold that it’ll be better when we get more.

You need to move past core specs being on the same field as elites. The game has so should you.

Gw2…officially pay to win.

I agree with the OP but your opinion is full of kitten. It’s a B2P game. Deal with it without posting kitten you don’t understand.

To those that don’t get it, people are kittened about this for the following reasons:

1) Nerfed the duration but did nothing to the cool down so it is a huge nerf to base skills.

2) The elite was the problem, continuum split, people will now move onto signet of illusions to QQ about and anything else strong you can use back to back.

3) This will effectively be a terrible choice for any and all future elite specs too if they don’t have a way to reduce its cool down by at least 60s. They might as well have removed the skill from the game.

4) This is setting a precedent that all core skills will be sacrificed on the alter of elite specs. It will (and has in some cases) happen to your favourite class soon. Something that is a little too strong with one elite spec will become rubbish with everything but that elite spec. Less diversity.

To Phokus in particular, many people actually enjoyed the balance pre HoT. Sure some things needed a buff and to be made more competitive but we saw all classes played in some degree in PvP and tournaments, even Col Summers ranger on foe fire. HoT and elite specs have taken that good balance out to the sheds and murdered it along with build diversity.

You can say it will be better when more elite specs come but when? In 4 years when the outdated engine really shows its age and nearly everyone has left because we’ve had no diversity for 1-2 years? No thank you.

Taltevus.3289:

phokus.8934:

You need to move beyond core specs as they’re complementary to elite specializations now. Elite specializations is the new game now. There’s no way that they’ll keep core specs on an even par with elite specializations – what’s the incentive for pvpers/wvw to buy expansion packs then?

Admittedly, this is a weird time as we only have one elite specialization to choose from but I’ll guarantee any amount of gold that it’ll be better when we get more.

You need to move past core specs being on the same field as elites. The game has so should you.

Gw2…officially pay to win.

Most games require you to actually OWN the game to win.. So by that logic every game out there is pay to win?
Logic

The nerf was long overdue.

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

It has 3 sec duration dude its exactly how it should be on base mesmer then additional 1sec per illusions but ehh thats done by a great team of devs right ?

10 sec was way too much and everyone saying its not r obviously players which dont know how play the game.

Deal with it i main necro we got bigger nerf than 4sec cd removed on elite

You guys are so ridiculous about this stuff. You complain and complain and complain, then finally they change something, then you decide its not actually what you wanted changed. It was a 10 second cc, in a game where nothing compares, not even close, 2-4 second cc/cc chains. It was, and still is absurd to exist. 6 seconds is a good start, but core mesmer or “OP TUNED ELITE CLASS” doesn’t need (and can’t have) access to a skill that powerful compared to other skills in the format. And whatever you guys are talking about elite skills warping the game and that’s how they should be, I think maybe you should try or read some other classes elite skills, they often aren’t “game warping”, that’s usually left to one or two utility skills per class or the profession skill, but that’s already a non-argument to begin with. A skill is a skill, and is in the format.

Sinzaku.2980:

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

It has 3 sec duration dude its exactly how it should be on base mesmer then additional 1sec per illusions but ehh thats done by a great team of devs right ?

10 sec was way too much and everyone saying its not r obviously players which dont know how play the game.

Deal with it i main necro we got bigger nerf than 4sec cd removed on elite

I dont have to deal with it cause i dont play mes but it seems that you lack any sense of logic like many on this forum so have a good day.

I raised apoint about the fact that they nerf core classes to balance out current elite crap, thats all. How op next elite spec has to be for mes to make moa viable on it? Only devs know.

The issue they have run into is the fact that elites didn’t change the way you play your class. It gave you a straight upgrade. Don’t believe me?

Ranger to Druid:
No mechanic change, just new and stronger pets with an additional healing form that sacrifices no aspect of ranger gameplay

Thief to Daredevil:
Add an extra dodge

Guard to DH:
Smaller cd’s on virtues, more functionality on virtues, more adaptable virtues that are better than the originals in every way.

Engi to Scrapper:
Add an autostomp/autores

Mes to Chrono:
Add a free reset within combat

See the trend? There was no sacrifice from taking the elite, just a straight upgrade to what you already had or some added functionality on top of what you already had. That’s the fundamental issue with elites and core specs are being punished because anet has no idea how to dig themselves out of this. They need to nerf the elite specs and/or redesign them in order to sacrifice something within the core class and change the way you play it.

For example:
Alter daredevil to focus on rather than just adding dodge spam to a class (btw, that’s not a class specific mechanic so the whole idea of the spec is… well… wrong) play around the use of steal and the alternate side of stealth: reveal. Give the daredevil changes to how skills interact in order to allow it to play around with reveal but sacrifice stealth gameplay. That’s a new style and a new mechanic on the thief class and then acro can have the buffs from daredevil it needs so dodge focused builds like s/d can still exist but then we begin fixing the fundamental flaws of the espec system.

Hope my points were clear. I got a bit ranty but it is what it is.

Really wondering how it will affect my next ranked playtime since I only bring the Moa. Guess it would have to be TW if I swap it out, too bad that also no longer affects stomps.
If 40% came out of the recharge, would that balance it a bit? Yay for more core mes changes/nerfs

Burtnik.5218:

Archon.6480:

No, the nerf to Moa is just about right. The 10s Moa was fine pre-HoT, but the elite specs can do too much damage to a fluffy little bird in 10s. If the mesmer times CS right, he can still dish out 12s of fluffy birdness, which is more than enough to mash someone into the ground.

20s of Moa with CS is silly. Mercenary Mesmer is still really strong so this is a nice shave.

You didnt read what i said at all, right? #gw2forum

I did, and responded appropriately #AreYouDaft

Burtnik.5218:

Sinzaku.2980:

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

It has 3 sec duration dude its exactly how it should be on base mesmer then additional 1sec per illusions but ehh thats done by a great team of devs right ?

10 sec was way too much and everyone saying its not r obviously players which dont know how play the game.

Deal with it i main necro we got bigger nerf than 4sec cd removed on elite

I dont have to deal with it cause i dont play mes but it seems that you lack any sense of logic like many on this forum so have a good day.

I raised apoint about the fact that they nerf core classes to balance out current elite crap, thats all. How op next elite spec has to be for mes to make moa viable on it? Only devs know.

Typical answer from someone QQing and dont like being quoted lol

This kind of win button skill should not even exist in game in first place soo in fact u guys got 3/6 or 10 sec u better be happy already whatever the CD is.

Now to answer proprely, the main problem with it is the lack of animation, the thing appear when its already at 99% cast basicaly same as spite signet from necro.

Every mesmer obviously use the fact it can be blinded, dodged ect but thats a non sense argument cuz its totally random if u manage avoid this kind of skill soo stop using poor logic and try defend something broken just cuz u guys cant manage play against players when they’r not transformed into something unbalanced

Sinzaku.2980:

Burtnik.5218:

Sinzaku.2980:

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

It has 3 sec duration dude its exactly how it should be on base mesmer then additional 1sec per illusions but ehh thats done by a great team of devs right ?

10 sec was way too much and everyone saying its not r obviously players which dont know how play the game.

Deal with it i main necro we got bigger nerf than 4sec cd removed on elite

I dont have to deal with it cause i dont play mes but it seems that you lack any sense of logic like many on this forum so have a good day.

I raised apoint about the fact that they nerf core classes to balance out current elite crap, thats all. How op next elite spec has to be for mes to make moa viable on it? Only devs know.

Typical answer from someone QQing and dont like being quoted lol

This kind of win button skill should not even exist in game in first place soo in fact u guys got 3/6 or 10 sec u better be happy already whatever the CD is.

Now to answer proprely, the main problem with it is the lack of animation, the thing appear when its already at 99% cast basicaly same as spite signet from necro.

Every mesmer obviously use the fact it can be blinded, dodged ect but thats a non sense argument cuz its totally random if u manage avoid this kind of skill soo stop using poor logic and try defend something broken just cuz u guys cant manage play against players when they’r not transformed into something unbalanced

You still assume that i play mesmer? Ahahahaaha omfg. Sounds like you are terrible player btw. A mesmer points finger at you+he glows pink while casting moa. Unless he used stealth its definitely dodgeable. Its l2p issue on your part here. Pvp forum is full of baddies either way so no surprise.

Well the nerf to moa was OK when looking to cronomancer. It hurts base mesmer using MoA. But it looks like Anet does not care for pure core spec being competative. The route is clear: One elite + two core lines for more diversity (which is quite low at the moment). Pure core specs are to learn and for free play. They are not so far behind like many say but have no place in high tier PvP and i expect this won´t change.

Liam McColgan.7689:

I agree. Once again ANet has no clue how to balance. This is not balance.

Moa has a 180 sec CD for a reason. It’s a strong, game changing skill, like an an elite should be…

/facepalm

Here come the mesmer who Moa me from Rampage… my strong game changing elite skill on incredibly long cooldown.

Nah Rampage is not game changing… :P Still it’s a good nerf to Moa and could be nerfed further more IMO.

Burtnik.5218:

Sinzaku.2980:

Burtnik.5218:

Sinzaku.2980:

Burtnik.5218:

gindoom.6032:

Moa is still very strong. 10 sec moa was just way to OP.
This is a good balance change.

On 180cd.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_X
Aoe, no tell and on 96cd. Balanced.
You do realize that moa became useless to core mesmer? Last time i checked out moa wasnt chrono skill.

Its the same logic as it was with revenant and ranger.

Double stab dodge op? Nerf core rev, leave herald broken trait alone? Result? Rev is pushed into herald even more than before and what it fixed? Nothing, you can still keep up perma stab.

Druid dazes too op? Nerf a trait which increased duration by 100% that was absolutely fine in core ranger.

I have no idea who can defend that kind of crap as it has no logic whatsoever, those are just a LAZY changes HURTING build diversity. But i guess people are fine with having 1 build top per class.

It has 3 sec duration dude its exactly how it should be on base mesmer then additional 1sec per illusions but ehh thats done by a great team of devs right ?

10 sec was way too much and everyone saying its not r obviously players which dont know how play the game.

Deal with it i main necro we got bigger nerf than 4sec cd removed on elite

I dont have to deal with it cause i dont play mes but it seems that you lack any sense of logic like many on this forum so have a good day.

I raised apoint about the fact that they nerf core classes to balance out current elite crap, thats all. How op next elite spec has to be for mes to make moa viable on it? Only devs know.

Typical answer from someone QQing and dont like being quoted lol

This kind of win button skill should not even exist in game in first place soo in fact u guys got 3/6 or 10 sec u better be happy already whatever the CD is.

Now to answer proprely, the main problem with it is the lack of animation, the thing appear when its already at 99% cast basicaly same as spite signet from necro.

Every mesmer obviously use the fact it can be blinded, dodged ect but thats a non sense argument cuz its totally random if u manage avoid this kind of skill soo stop using poor logic and try defend something broken just cuz u guys cant manage play against players when they’r not transformed into something unbalanced

You still assume that i play mesmer? Ahahahaaha omfg. Sounds like you are terrible player btw. A mesmer points finger at you+he glows pink while casting moa. Unless he used stealth its definitely dodgeable. Its l2p issue on your part here. Pvp forum is full of baddies either way so no surprise.

Your life must be really amazing if u spend ur time posting there bout something u dont care then.

Anyway with all animations in pvp its not like the actual one for SoH is good enuf, compare it with revenant everything is more obvious …

Thats a kind of unbalanced and if u can avoid being moaed its cool for u but that doesnt solve the prob’s and ur answers r not helpful in any ways

yanoch.7051:

Liam McColgan.7689:

I agree. Once again ANet has no clue how to balance. This is not balance.

Moa has a 180 sec CD for a reason. It’s a strong, game changing skill, like an an elite should be…

/facepalm

Here come the mesmer who Moa me from Rampage… my strong game changing elite skill on incredibly long cooldown.

Nah Rampage is not game changing… :P Still it’s a good nerf to Moa and could be nerfed further more IMO.

haha i agree, moa should not get rid of elite transformations