Guild Wars 2

Condi necro is currently in bad spot and with every incoming patch it getting worse. With huge amount condi cleanses currently played is hard to maintain enough condition and sustain for time that we are actually able to kill something. So what about reverting some nerfs that were made because currently unusable trait Dhuumfire?
I dont want revert all these changes but at least some of them. Especially Mark of blood, grasping dead and condi transfer for allies on Putrid mark.

These nerfs are:
Skills:
Mark of Blood: -1 bleed stack
Putrid Mark: transfer only 3 condi from caster (before transfer all condis from caster and allies in mark radius)
Grasping dead: -1 bleed stack
Corrupt boon: corupt 5 boons, stability lowest priority like all necro boon removal (before all boons – stability = fear everytime)
Traits:
Terror: moved to master tier, fear damage reduction
Weaking shroud: -1 bleed stack

That’s like saying revert the pet nerf because rangers aren’t very good right now. Which would make ranger top dog (huehueheu) once again. Power creeping isn’t the solution.

Eurantien.4632:

That’s like saying revert the pet nerf because rangers aren’t very good right now. Which would make ranger top dog (huehueheu) once again. Power creeping isn’t the solution.

Yes and no. Reverting all nerfs certainly isn’t the fix, Corrupt Boon and Putrid Mark both should have been nerfed from where they were, however Necromancer has lost too much of its overall condition pressure through bleed and terror nerfs that are just no longer needed.

Terror was nerfed solely because Dhuumfire + Fear + bleed burst was overwhelming, but that is no longer a thing anymore, so it absolutely makes sense to un-nerf things that were nerfed under a situation that no longer exists. If they had just done the logical thing and never released Dhuumfire in its original state in the first place we would still have those bleeds and fear damage.

they reverted with the ele so i dont see why not

All they have to do now is to revert everything to match with the current PvE side.

Eurantien.4632:

That’s like saying revert the pet nerf because rangers aren’t very good right now. Which would make ranger top dog (huehueheu) once again. Power creeping isn’t the solution.

That pet nerf was completely unwarranted in pve yet we got hit for it for no reason because anet can’t be boethered to scale pet damage off the ranger’s own stats so BM bunkers were having hard hitting owls.

Eurantien.4632:

That’s like saying revert the pet nerf because rangers aren’t very good right now. Which would make ranger top dog (huehueheu) once again. Power creeping isn’t the solution.

+1. But anet hate nerfing and so does the community. I want nerfs to every class and sigils and amulets and get abuse on the forums.

Everything shouod be nerfed, ranger and necro included.

They should bring back 3 bleeds on mark of blood, make grasping dead 2 stacks of torment instead of bleed, and make putrid mark transfer 1 condition from allies and 2 from the necro. I also think mesmers should have better confusion access, and that engi’s IP should be nerfed and their auto attacks buffed to compensate (that or give a little buff like sigil of doom, but make it avoidable).

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

Thanks to this bullpoop dhuumfire bs we were nerfed to oblivion and even then a-net decided it was not enough and they completely ruined dhumfire itself!

No revert changes were made since. Of cource necro is bottom line of the foot chain thx to its fault game mechanic.
It is more then obvious that a-net has not a single clue what to do with necromancers at all… I am just sooo afraid of expaction pack and what it will bring to the necromancers.

If putrid mark and mark of blood nerfs were reverted I’d be soooo happy. Staff is just so lackluster. It doesn’t bring much damage and doesn’t bring much utility but in a lot of cases there really aren’t better choices because we only have 4 weapons.

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

A lot of people, actually. We weren’t doing amazing in the meta, and a lot of people attributed it to the fact that we couldn’t sustain DPS on people due to a lack of burning, unlike engi.

Personally I don’t get why they would nerf other aspects of Necro instead of Dhuumfire. Nerf what is overpowered, not what isn’t. I didn’t play much pre-Dhuumfire so I wouldn’t know how balanced Necro was then, but from what I’ve heard Necro was much better pre-Dhuumfire.

I would argue we are better balanced now, but mostly because there have been tons of bug fixes and QoL changes since then. Pre-dhuumfire we didn’t see much more use than we do now, honestly, and it was ONLY condi, power was garbage. A lot of what is making us weak now is the mass condi removal, and having a few bleeds back here and there would help a lot.

And it just makes sense, the thing that caused these nerfs no longer exists as it did, so these nerfs have no place anymore.

Bhawb.7408:

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

A lot of people, actually. We weren’t doing amazing in the meta, and a lot of people attributed it to the fact that we couldn’t sustain DPS on people due to a lack of burning, unlike engi.

Actually a lot of people wanted (and still want) two things for necromancer. Sustain (artrition) and Escape.
Dhuumfire didnt solve anything and in long term, it brought more harm then good to this class.

DriV.6203:

Bhawb.7408:

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

A lot of people, actually. We weren’t doing amazing in the meta, and a lot of people attributed it to the fact that we couldn’t sustain DPS on people due to a lack of burning, unlike engi.

Actually a lot of people wanted (and still want) two things for necromancer. Sustain (artrition) and Escape.
Dhuumfire didnt solve anything and in long term, it brought more harm then good to this class.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. Quite a few people did want more damage via burning. A lot of folks also did (and still) want defense. There was even some overlap.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DriV.6203:

Bhawb.7408:

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

A lot of people, actually. We weren’t doing amazing in the meta, and a lot of people attributed it to the fact that we couldn’t sustain DPS on people due to a lack of burning, unlike engi.

Actually a lot of people wanted (and still want) two things for necromancer. Sustain (artrition) and Escape.
Dhuumfire didnt solve anything and in long term, it brought more harm then good to this class.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. Quite a few people did want more damage via burning. A lot of folks also did (and still) want defense. There was even some overlap.

Plus, there were a couple other changes that came with that same patch. Some people did want burning but if they were given all the changes in context, who knows if they still would have been on board. SWalk, Swall, Sarmor buffs and tainted shackles all also came along with Dhuumfire.

But I remember a majority of the community was asking for sustain and attrition.

I’d be fine with returning the bleed stacks to Mark of Blood and Grasping Dead if you nerf Sigil of Geomancy and change Nightmare Runes.

Corrupt Boon and Putrid Mark changes are fine, though you could argue that Putrid Mark should still affect allies with a cap. Weakening Shroud is an Adept trait, so it shouldn’t be too powerful.

It’s hard to say one way or the other about Terror.

Exedore.6320:

I’d be fine with returning the bleed stacks to Mark of Blood and Grasping Dead if you nerf Sigil of Geomancy and change Nightmare Runes.

Corrupt Boon and Putrid Mark changes are fine, though you could argue that Putrid Mark should still affect allies with a cap. Weakening Shroud is an Adept trait, so it shouldn’t be too powerful.

It’s hard to say one way or the other about Terror.

I’d take that in an instant. Although I’m of the mindset that a lot of sigils should be nerfed.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DriV.6203:

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

Actually a lot of people wanted (and still want) two things for necromancer. Sustain (artrition) and Escape.
Dhuumfire didnt solve anything and in long term, it brought more harm then good to this class.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. Quite a few people did want more damage via burning. A lot of folks also did (and still) want defense. There was even some overlap.

If you look on what dhuumfire patch gave us you will notice that there were a lot of damage related buffs. Those buffs would not have been needed at all if the necromancers were given more atrition to slowly melt enemy and have the ability to escape if needed.
After the patch, necromancer was actually quite opposite of what anet expected necromancer to be. We became a condi spike glass that was able to cc fear you and bassicaly melt you in 15s. Not atrition-base class at all… And then nerf train arrived.

DriV.6203:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DriV.6203:

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

Actually a lot of people wanted (and still want) two things for necromancer. Sustain (artrition) and Escape.
Dhuumfire didnt solve anything and in long term, it brought more harm then good to this class.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. Quite a few people did want more damage via burning. A lot of folks also did (and still) want defense. There was even some overlap.

If you look on what dhuumfire patch gave us you will notice that there were a lot of damage related buffs. Those buffs would not have been needed at all if the necromancers were given more atrition to slowly melt enemy and have the ability to escape if needed.
After the patch, necromancer was actually quite opposite of what anet expected necromancer to be. We became a condi spike glass that was able to cc fear you and bassicaly melt you in 15s. Not atrition-base class at all… And then nerf train arrived.

15 seconds was long for a Necro condiburst when Dhuumfire released

At no point did I say that Dhuumfire was ever good for the profession. What followed because of it certainly wasn’t.

DriV.6203:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

DriV.6203:

DriV.6203:

Dhuumfire was the worst “buff” and it was both absolutely unwanted and uncreative decision. Who in the hell wanted a necromancer with burning?!

Actually a lot of people wanted (and still want) two things for necromancer. Sustain (artrition) and Escape.
Dhuumfire didnt solve anything and in long term, it brought more harm then good to this class.

Those aren’t mutually exclusive things. Quite a few people did want more damage via burning. A lot of folks also did (and still) want defense. There was even some overlap.

If you look on what dhuumfire patch gave us you will notice that there were a lot of damage related buffs. Those buffs would not have been needed at all if the necromancers were given more atrition to slowly melt enemy and have the ability to escape if needed.
After the patch, necromancer was actually quite opposite of what anet expected necromancer to be. We became a condi spike glass that was able to cc fear you and bassicaly melt you in 15s. Not atrition-base class at all… And then nerf train arrived.

Necro fails at attrition and builds condition damage slowly, necro was supposed to be the condition spike class like thief is the burst spike class. Just wait for revenant to take his place as well whatever classes the legends will be based on probably thief,guard,ele.

What they need to understand is that we give up sustain for that spike. They need fix DS relation with stats as well especially vitality increasing the pool and kittening Blood Magic.

You can argue about the patch specifically, but at the time I was actually interviewing top players who agreed that a major problem with Necromancer was our lack of sustained damage, which is easily fixed with burning. It was a common topic on But of Corpse, and I’m sure you could go back and listen to us complain about our lack of Burning compared to Engineer.

Did we have and do we have other issues? Yes. But things like sustain weren’t as big of an issue if Necromancers were made to be significant teamfight threats outside of dangerous (melee) bleed spikes because at the time Necros often had dedicated peeling.

And the sustain vs spike can be easily fixed if they put these into utility/weapon/trait setups that are exclusive. If you want Dhuumfire and Terror, you only have 4 points for any kind of defense. If you want staff/scepter+dagger then you should give up other weapons, and if you want certain utilities you can’t take others. The problem then and the problem now is that we don’t really have meaningful choices. Without choices we just gravitate to the one best build.

They nerfed the wrong thing. It wasn’t Dhuumfire that needed changing, it was the Terror chains.

And of course the fact they’d put a burning trait on a power line, that was just brilliant of them. They love their hideously kitten hybrid lines/weaponskills/trait while the warriors and elementalists and thieves and guardians get all the power traits in the power lines and the condi traits in the crit/condi lines.

Zenith.7301:

They nerfed the wrong thing. It wasn’t Dhuumfire that needed changing, it was the Terror chains.

And of course the fact they’d put a burning trait on a power line, that was just brilliant of them. They love their hideously kitten hybrid lines/weaponskills/trait while the warriors and elementalists and thieves and guardians get all the power traits in the power lines and the condi traits in the crit/condi lines.

The terror chains are fine, instead of applying confusion/burn and knockdowns, we apply poison bleed and we cc with fear.
But i agree 100% what the hell do they have in mind with the hybrid traits. Unholy Sanctuary in a line without Healing Power, instead in the line that is hindered by DS we get a DS trait, Dhuumfire and Parasitic Contagion on Power trait line. Not gonna talk about the bad unused traits, every class has almost as many.

Now on topic, OP is right. Terror was nerfed too btw. But we still have (albeit difficult) access to burning and maybe the 6/6/x/x/x condi necro still feels too good to the devs…

Torment on Grasping Dead +1

Zenith.7301:

They nerfed the wrong thing. It wasn’t Dhuumfire that needed changing, it was the Terror chains.

And of course the fact they’d put a burning trait on a power line, that was just brilliant of them. They love their hideously kitten hybrid lines/weaponskills/trait while the warriors and elementalists and thieves and guardians get all the power traits in the power lines and the condi traits in the crit/condi lines.

Terror was nerfed by 17% and was moved to Master from Adept. Also, Dhuumfire was bad because it was on-crit in a non-crit tree, however Spite gives condition duration, it should by all means be our secondary condition tree, not to mention that Dhuumfire even in its current form would be OP in Curses.

Terror’s nerf is probably still fine. It is way too good to be in Adept, and its current damage is decent. Same with some of the other nerfs we have seen, like Corrupt Boon removing 5 boons. However, adding back 2 or 3 bleeds across a few skills would be a really nice change to make, and hardly game breaking for our opponents.

Bhawb.7408:

top players who agreed that a major problem with Necromancer was our lack of sustained damage

I remember some guy from the Curse team or whatever making a statement saying that we didn’t need more damage and that we needed a means of escape, not more pressure as we were the only class that couldn’t disengage from a fight on a regular basis like all other classes. And he did this before Dhuumfire was added. I only remember newbie Necros complaining about lack of damage and thinking we needed Burning as back then a condi burst where you stacked 25 bleeds in about 5-10 sec was entirely possible to do.

Aktium.9506:

Bhawb.7408:

top players who agreed that a major problem with Necromancer was our lack of sustained damage

I remember some guy from the Curse team or whatever making a statement saying that we didn’t need more damage and that we needed a means of escape, not more pressure as we were the only class that couldn’t disengage from a fight on a regular basis like all other classes. And he did this before Dhuumfire was added. I only remember newbie Necros complaining about lack of damage and thinking we needed Burning as back then a condi burst where you stacked 25 bleeds in about 5-10 sec was entirely possible to do.

My words exactly. Necro itself can do a lot of dmg, but he lacks sustain and disingage. I understand that if necro will have super fast condi spike with great sustain and with the ability to escape, that would be way overpowered. What i want is to have more ways to control the progression of fight, to have some advantage in longer fights and the way to flee when necessary.
I dont want to be a punching bag who have a lot of HP, but cannot mitigate it well when focused from multiple sources.

This dhuumfire patch and other buffs that were nerfed are more or less conneted to the necro game mechanic as a whole. It realy need some major rework…