Guild Wars 2

Has there been any discussion, thought or response on this subject? A search didn’t bring up much for me.

Is there any chance that we will start to see points given for staying in a node and defending it (like a slow ticking up of points where 2 straight minutes of defending is about equivalent to capturing 1 node?)

The current system doesn’t reward defensive play at all, which is one of the reasons Pugs have such a hard time – they all want to fly from Node to Node to get max glory for themselves and be high up on the leaderboard at the end of the game.

It would also encourage people to fight on the points more often, which solves another problem that I know frustrates people – when people fight off node.

Curious to hear the community thoughts.

~Raevyn

Raevyn.2167:

which is one of the reasons Pugs have such a hard time – they all want to fly from Node to Node to get max glory for themselves and be high up on the leaderboard at the end of the game.

It would also encourage people to fight on the points more often, which solves another problem that I know frustrates people – when people fight off node.

Curious to hear the community thoughts.

~Raevyn

Pugs have many issues.
Not caring about winning is one of them.
SPvP is more a place of action packed chaos than controlled point mooching.

I know the vast majority of pug tourny teams I’ve been in don’t do silly things like fight off node because they don’t get a mild amount of points otherwise. They more care about winning, or at least the joy of killing people than mild amounts of glory (since it is practically a useless currency and not worth chasing in the slightest after rank40)

The scoring in general is just bad though, not going to disagree there. And I hate the scoreboard, doesn’t even show flaming dmg done or killing blows or any other players specifics short of your own… its terrible.
I like seeing then screenshotting my rediculously large numbers.
But tragically this is the first game where that picture folder only has a toon shot or 2 just so it doesn’t seem so empty.

If your defending a node that doesn’t need it you don’t get points. If some comes to fight you you get an extra 10 points per kill for defending.

I know that Thesilentflute. That is my point. The way that it works currently is not very good at encouraging team play/defensive play.

A node that “doesn’t need defending” doesn’t exist. If you leave the node because no one is there, you better believe the other team will go there and take it.

My point is that people who play a bunker should get rewarded for bunkering on a node thus stopping the other team from every capping. They shouldn’t get a LOT of points (because sometimes you’re right, the other team just never comes), but you could equal it out to about 10 points per minute and I think it would be balanced.

An alternative to this idea is to slant the glory reward to reward ~50% of the actual glory earned in every match to be given if you win. In other words, halve the amount of glory you receive for kills/assists/caps etc., and give a large amount of glory when you win the game.

Also give a smaller amount of glory to the losing team when the game ends.

These rewards should account for which team you were on a full minute before the end of the game, to discourage team swapping to the favored side.

The idea would encourage GOOD gameplay and competitiveness among the hot join portion of PvP. This would have a positive effect for the entire PvP community, because new players usually play hot join to learn.

Any way you do it, I don’t care. Right now I’m just irritated that the glory is being given without thought to what is actually needed to win…

For example in the SW map – I should get extra glory for killing an orb carrier…Shouldn’t I? That seems pretty conducive to winning to me…moreso than just killing random people on the map.

All of the other maps give you points for making use of their extras (Buffs in Temple, Treb in Kyhlo, Lord in Foefire).

But back to the original topic – Defense is just another way to win and play, and it wouldn’t be that hard to reward it.

Raevyn.2167:

Has there been any discussion, thought or response on this subject? A search didn’t bring up much for me.

Is there any chance that we will start to see points given for staying in a node and defending it (like a slow ticking up of points where 2 straight minutes of defending is about equivalent to capturing 1 node?)

The current system doesn’t reward defensive play at all, which is one of the reasons Pugs have such a hard time – they all want to fly from Node to Node to get max glory for themselves and be high up on the leaderboard at the end of the game.

It would also encourage people to fight on the points more often, which solves another problem that I know frustrates people – when people fight off node.

Curious to hear the community thoughts.

~Raevyn

Since defending a base is the bread and butter of any WIN, I agree, the longer you keep two bases, the more likely it is you will win on most maps – so not having the defender rewarded for NOT running with the zergers is just illogical. – I defend many points as a Ranger (underwater mostly) and I am sad to say I lose a lot of points because I refuse to give up the base.

Right now what the heck are we doing if we never get attacked – we can’t see them on the map and many people WILL NOT communicate in pvp or tpvp – sitting through a game successfully if boringly is not easy – I want to hit things too but winning for the team seems far more important to me – kinda like being the orb carrier… when I do make it to a held base I feel like I did something more than zerging a single player… they are going for me and I have to make it to a base alone most of the time – that is fun – but being the lonely person who does THE| RI|GHT THING? Wow… what are we telling others about us here and what we really believe…?

We should be better than the other games – we’re supposed to be saving a world and yet we have a dishonorable system that doesn’t reward even as little as would be in the “real world” – we’d all get medals for being so relentless in our base guarding in real life…

Rewards for defensive play are very hard to quantify as a player could potentially be rewarded for essentially doing nothing.

Implemented poorly, and you could have servers full of 5 “defending” at node A and 5 “defending” node C and nothing going on at node B for part (or all) of the match once someone crunches the numbers on how to abuse the system to gain max glory per hour.

I do agree defense in critical to winning a match, but the extra 300 glory is already there to help mitigate some of the point loss incurred by selfless actions during the match if your team does win in the end. At least that is how I interpret the win bonus.

It can be balanced very easily really. It is going to be worthwhile to you to do a mix of things. Lets look at the numbers:

You get 5 points for a kill.
You get 10 points for a Skirmisher, Defender, or Assaulter kill.
You get 10 points for Neutralizing (which takes about 5 seconds)
You get 10 points for Capturing (which takes about 8 seconds)

If you balanced it so that you got 10 points for staying in a node of your color for every 1 minute you stayed there, at most you could rack up about 80- 100 points in a game.

In most games I play, I’ll usually have a score from 80 (very low) -335 (being very high). A player who chose to just stand on a node would be getting on the low end of total glory you can receive.

If we wanted we could lower it even more so that players could get at most 60 points per game, but this seems very reasonable.

If you’re worried about AFK people – that’s a whole different animal…we definitely need a reporting tool (but I would start another thread for that because that is a very detailed design mechanic).

Raevyn.2167:

I know that Thesilentflute. That is my point. The way that it works currently is not very good at encouraging team play/defensive play.

A node that “doesn’t need defending” doesn’t exist. If you leave the node because no one is there, you better believe the other team will go there and take it.

My point is that people who play a bunker should get rewarded for bunkering on a node thus stopping the other team from every capping. They shouldn’t get a LOT of points (because sometimes you’re right, the other team just never comes), but you could equal it out to about 10 points per minute and I think it would be balanced.

In my eyes going bunker is pretty cheesy anyway but if you want more points go hold the node closest to there base prob solved and If you can’t kill people change your spec.

I agree that defending a node is an important role to play but I disagree that players should get more glory for just standing on it the whole match. When I started TPVP, I used to get upset when my numbers were not good as I spent whole matches holding a point. However, after gaining more experience in TPVP and watching streams, I realized that standing on a node when it’s not contested is bad for your team regardless of spec.

If your node is not contested and you see no incoming threat, you should be assisting your teammates in other areas of the map even if you are bunker spec (which would get you more glory by assisting with kills and point nuetralizing/capturing, etc).

Yes, the other team may try to take an empty node but then you get back there to defend and keep it or go take their uncontested node. (which again would net you more glory assuming you effectively defended or recaptured the point).

Anytime you are just sitting on one point that is uncontested, you are potentially giving the other team a 5v4 scenario on the rest of the field.

Raevyn.2167:

It can be balanced very easily really. It is going to be worthwhile to you to do a mix of things. Lets look at the numbers:

You get 5 points for a kill.
You get 10 points for a Skirmisher, Defender, or Assaulter kill.
You get 10 points for Neutralizing (which takes about 5 seconds)
You get 10 points for Capturing (which takes about 8 seconds)

If you balanced it so that you got 10 points for staying in a node of your color for every 1 minute you stayed there, at most you could rack up about 80- 100 points in a game.

In most games I play, I’ll usually have a score from 80 (very low) -335 (being very high). A player who chose to just stand on a node would be getting on the low end of total glory you can receive.

If we wanted we could lower it even more so that players could get at most 60 points per game, but this seems very reasonable.

If you’re worried about AFK people – that’s a whole different animal…we definitely need a reporting tool (but I would start another thread for that because that is a very detailed design mechanic).

I don’t think this is a feasible solution as it is likely to be exploited and not necessary accomplish the end goal of encouraging teamwork. I think, as someone else previously mentioned, that the point system should give more points for winning a match and have less emphasis on solo achievements such as kills/captures. That being said, I think it might make sense to grant some small amount of points for fighting on or around a node, regardless of whether you actually get kills. I’m not sure though, it’s not an easy problem to solve in a way that achieves the end goal of rewarding teamwork but at the same time not opening up a way for people to exploit the system and farm glory without doing anything (like bots – although I’m not sure why anyone would put in the time to make a bot that farms glory ;P)

Hmm… if this were true would we have bunker builds?

I don’t feel like I’m ever not rewarded for playing defensively on a node. If I can keep 2 players occupied trying to take my node there’s no doubt the other nodes are going to be capped by my team.

Leadfoot – You start off by saying you don’t think my solution is feasible…then you go on to suggest EXACTLY what I already suggested….getting a small amount of points for standing on a node or around a node that you own….

Pandabro – you feel rewarded because your team won. You don’t get rewarded though.

Other pvp games track and give points for the following:

Damage done
Damage Taken
Conditions/Debuffs removed
Healing Done
Defensive points (for guarding)
Offensive points (for attacking)
Killing players

By basing scores around all the possible actions you can take, you get a more balanced pvp experience. People aren’t forced to play one of a few play styles to get recognition. It’s silly that this stuff isn’t tracked in GW2.

Raevyn.2167:

Leadfoot – You start off by saying you don’t think my solution is feasible…then you go on to suggest EXACTLY what I already suggested….getting a small amount of points for standing on a node or around a node that you own….

I said fighting on a node – i.e. actively defending it.

haven’t read the whole thread but my ideas on this would be:

• reward wins better (maybe punish looses)
• reward players defending points even if there are no players nearby (ticking glory like OP suggestet)
• reward more glory when a player is killed at your own point
• less glory from killing enemies outside of points
• reward holding a point for a long time – maybe exponential glory and points to win

but I’m afraid that there might be an increasing amount of bunkers if such changes were made – therefore i like Raevyn’s suggestion