Guild Wars 2

What exactly is broken about matchmaking? In 90% of my matches i get opponents/teammates equal to my ladderrank. Ok, sometimes there is some obscure matchup(guess due to the numbers of actual players), but in a matchup of “topplayers vs. noobs” no one gets anything for his ranking. Theres a kind of hidden ELO system behind the scene, like we know it from other games ladders. So what…?

Loosing to a superstrong team does exactly nothing to your rank. I for example have beaten some top20 players in soloq several times, now im top20 myself with a bad ratio of 60%. Honestly, you can only win if youre matched vs. the elite.

For me it feels pretty legit.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

What exactly is broken about matchmaking? In 90% of my matches i get opponents/teammates equal to my ladderrank. Ok, sometimes there is some obscure matchup(guess due to the numbers of actual players), but in a matchup of “topplayers vs. noobs” no one gets anything for his ranking. Theres a kind of hidden ELO system behind the scene, like we know it from other games ladders. So what…?

Loosing to a superstrong team does exactly nothing to your rank. I for example have beaten some top20 players in soloq several times, now im top20 myself with a bad ratio of 60%. Honestly, you can only win if youre matched vs. the elite.

For me it feels pretty legit.

You know what’s even more surprising? The best players in the game who actively play Solo Q remarkably seem to be consistently in the top ranks…. If it’s so broken then why aren’t we hearing about “pro” players unable to hit high ranks due to the broken system.

I haven’t heard of a single “pro” player struggling to reach what appears to be the top 2% of all pvp players on the ladder. If it’s such a broken system not only would we have bad players in the top ranks, but we’d have good players unable to enter the top ranks.

Yeah, sadly the most broken thing in sQ/tQ is the mentality of the players. People who havent played a hundred matches screaming about how broken the matchmaking is. Like “Why the hell im not top100? Im always topscorer in hotjoin! Matchmaking must be broken!”

Sadly people have a too big ego to keep on playing after some losses, so they stuck on hotjoin without learning anything to become better in tournament. Anet has to bring them top100, otherwise the game is broken…

What’s this mentality that anyone in the top 100 is an exploiter? I duck into top 100 whenever I queue for a long time on NA prime (and drop again at Oceanic prime because it’s ded) so I can’t see how hard it would be to stick there. Jealousy? Looking through top 25 now I see an awful lot of names that I’ve played with and against that I respect.

And yeah rewards would be nice, except for the fact that I’d probably miss out on them :<

Edo Tensei.8254:

Arenanet dont give out Rewards for kittens. The Matchmaking and Leaderboards are broken so why should anyone get a Reward climbing up a broken Leaderboard and with a broken Matchmaking?

and still Team Arena is more like Random vs Premade , its very easy to get Top 100 in Team Arena for exsample by just farming randoms , since you can sign up Team Arena alone or with 2er or 3er or 4er Group. Team Arena Sign up should be only available for 5er Groups so its only Premade vs Premade for the sake of Competition.

seriously…

Why would you want to be rewarded for something that nobody actually cares about? Most people at the top cheated/synced and/or abused the MMR system, and should actually be punished lol.

There are a few legit players, like Lux, but you will climb to the top again, no worries. If you think you should be rewarded, then you also must ALL agree that anyone who farmed skyhammer points should also get to keep his points, and all entitlements as well.

Because the logic you are all stating is that regardless of how broken the system was, you want to be rewarded for time spent in it. Just like all the skyhammer farmers, who played in a broken system, are keeping their glory. For pride purposes, I would rather not be known for getting a title in a season most people have simply written off due to it being such a complete, utter failure.

It is also like saying, hey I got a 1600 on my SAT score, but then the org saying the test was wrong. “But I sat to take the test and spent time filling out the questions.”

But the test was broken, and you still want to keep your 1600? What college in the world is going to allow that specific test # to be accepted as a possible SAT score during admissions…I can tell you! Zero.

<3 azh

- It does not look like skyhammer farmers will get their ranks stripped anyway.
- Legit players acctualy had harder time climbing leaderboards because people on top/bottom could sync.
- Whenever someone says “you will climb to top again” I just think to myself why don’t they just wipe the whole game. And make everyone make new characters again. I mean you lvled up once you can do it again.

And I did not find system that broken except for those 15/0 streak people up there. Most matches were hard and now and then there was one 500:20 score game.

Divinity.8041:

seriously…

Why would you want to be rewarded for something that nobody actually cares about? Most people at the top cheated/synced and/or abused the MMR system (Hi azh!), and should actually be punished lol.

Care to enlighten me how I did any of those things? Don’t call people out based on your assumptions, I simply played normally for the purpose of getting rank 1, which I got by going on a winstreak against good players early on, and have since then lost interest in playing the PvP side of the game.
The only reason I play every now and then is as a testament to the broken nature of the decay of the system, which is hopefully a more powerful statement than any verbal argument I could make.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

Yeah, sadly the most broken thing in sQ/tQ is the mentality of the players. People who havent played a hundred matches screaming about how broken the matchmaking is. Like “Why the hell im not top100? Im always topscorer in hotjoin! Matchmaking must be broken!”

NO rewards for leadder – NO for soloq syncing or farming non-good teams on tpvp.
Sadly people have a too big ego to keep on playing after some losses, so they stuck on hotjoin without learning anything to become better in tournament. Anet has to bring them top100, otherwise the game is broken…

Im at Tpvp leadder atm (over 2k rated matches), somewhere round 9oo and like 80% on soloQ (over 700 matches, didnt play much). And I think matchmaking is broken like hell. In most cases my matches looks like: I win 500-100 or I loose -100-500.
Maybe 1/5 matches r somehow balanced. I get ppl with rank 1 rank 7 etc. Or I fight vs such lowranked ppl being myself 50+. It’s just stupid and “uncool”. When I was in top15, than top100 pn soloq, it was much better, I had matches with simmillar ranked players, they were balanced, mostly 4xx-500 games. But lower I felt the worse they became.
So, matchmaking IS bad. It should be based imo on ppl rank 1-10 vs 1-10, 11-25 vs 11-25, 40-50 vs 40-50 etc.

I plan on testing out the new solo queue matchmaking, even though I know it is very likely to lower my rating. I’m willing to forego any rewards in exchange for being able to play, but that’s a ridiculous choice to have to make. I know good and well that the way to be in the top 100 two weeks from now is to not play.

I will list what seem to be the common arguments in favor of rewards and then attempt to debunk them.

1) “The leaderboard and matchmaking actually work great, so we should be rewarded for being at the top of this legitimate system.”

If you think that the above statement is true then you have not played enough games, especially at the top. This is not intended to insult anyone, it is simply how it is. The more games that you play in the top 100ish, the more you will see how poorly the system works. Other things damaging the integrity of the system are obviously sync queuers and afk climbers.

2) “Rewards were given for QPs, and the QP system was at least as broken as the current leaderboards, so we should be rewarded.”

The problem with this argument is that it is effectively saying “Anet made a mistake giving rewards for QPs, so they should make another mistake and give us rewards too.” It sounds pretty silly when you look at it like that; wouldn’t you prefer that Anet learned from their mistakes rather than repeat them?

3) “There are plenty of legitimate players at the top that deserve rewards.”

The problem with this argument is something I touched on in my previous post. Even the legitimate players have reaped the benefits of the flawed system. They may not be trying to, but that doesn’t change the stacked teams/unbalanced games that we all benefited from. I remember a lovely set of 10 games in a row that I had the exact same team of five top25 ranked players against five players not on leaderboards at all. The point is that even the legitimate players have had their matches tainted by the flawed system, so no one truly has a “legitimate” rating and as a result rewards cannot be given.

If I missed any pro-rewards arguments please let me know so I can respond to them.

isnt the topic from this thread to ask for rewards AFTER the reset and working mmr? at least the title imply this to me.

Should see the current leaderboard system as a beta, you don’t get rewards for participating !

(I wish you did tho coz I might get something)

Iksargo.2640:

I definitely see where you’re coming from and respect your position on the matter. I also appreciate how you are actually making attempts to address the issues specifically.

My biggest issue is the lack of rewards period. While I realize a system is in the works, really, who cares if people got a title for participating in this system anet created? I absolutely agree that it was broken and manipulated and isn’t a representation of skill, but really when you think about it, what system WILL be flawless to the point where you can finally say “ok, they really do deserve a title.”

Bottom line is all that players are asking for seems to be a title currently unavailable. Who cares if they got it? If you don’t respect the system you won’t take the title seriously anyway. It’s basically just a form of recognition that wouldn’t hurt anyone at all, unless for some reason people were jealous over a title gained in a broken system.

Instead of creating this elitism through comments like “absolutely no rewards should be given to people who participated in this 5-month ladder even though anet was already mentioning the possibility of rewarding ladder-ranks” we could perhaps support the idea of anet rewarding players for their dedication to the game, particularly pvp.

From watching your stream a ton I realize you don’t care much for rewards or incentives anyway. So if you genuinely don’t care then why be the antagonist? For some players we would LOVE to see pvp rewards and incentives to play, and if anything this would benefit you as well since if you’ve been monitoring the forums the top two things that have been asked for are balance in matches and rewards. Let’s bring some life back into the mists, because realistically, these rewards aren’t hurting anyone.

tl;dr

The benefits of rewarding players seem to far outweigh the cons. Many people would love to see recognition/rewards and it would get the ball rolling on a definitive reward system for PvP giving players goals to aim towards, and honestly I can’t see why others would legitimately be opposed to the addition of something as minor as a title.

I thought I would clarify my stance on this since you’ve taken the time to flesh out your oppositions.

Lux, exploiers should be permanently banned not rewarded with a longer kitten.People were banned for far less at launch and many of those players didn’t even knew they were exploiting, while que syncing and even rank skyhammer farming are far worse.Anet should wake up and decide wich way they wanna go already.People got banned at launch for making what ? Maybe10 gold? When in pvp the only valuable thing is rank and title a rank 60 could easily be the counterpart of pve’s legendary items only a lot harder to achieve, and these exploiters get away with it really easy and worst of all in the face of dedicated and legitimate players.Way to go only thinking about this causes me to completely lose faith.

Really interesting. I won’t say a name, but I remember one of you guys who is against rewards from SoloQ. Met him multiple times their playing guard, and he was just playing awful. One time he was matched with me, and even before the game has started, he began to flame our engineer. The whole game he didn’t moved away from the starting position just standing there and continued flaming our engineer.

Yes, I tried to syn Q too with a mate – five times, ended up playing three times against him. Played over 150 games, after the first 10 placement matches I started with about ~80%, then earned my way to the top. (Still can’t compete with shad )
No, I don’t think I should get the same reward, as f.e. the Top 20 or 50, but I think I earned my way up there equal to the players who farmed QP for the first month of the game, and I’d really appreciate something to show off, what I have earned.

I just dont get it whats wrong about getting matchup´ed vs. a top 100 team, from a low ranked team point of view? If you beat them, you will get like 200 ranks up, if you loose, your rank will stay closely the same. So what?
Its nothing else than a great chance to drastically improve youre ranking or learn something from the “best”.

Im playing games in ladders/leagues for like 15 years now, but ive never seen low ranked players complaining about such types of matchups. Thats exactly what a ELO system is made for. You cant loose anything vs. an “elite team”.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I just dont get it whats wrong about getting matchup´ed vs. a top 100 team, from a low ranked team point of view? If you beat them, you will get like 200 ranks up, if you loose, your rank will stay closely the same. So what?

Well, a major thing is that the matches are not fun at all. Unless two teams are evenly matched then a game comes down to map control instead of fights, and the fights are usually extremely lopsided. I like close matches. I hate stomps, as the stomper and the stompee.

Ofc it is not fun when a f.e. top 100 team plays against a top 900 team. They’ll just stomp them, and even though, the elo outcome for both teams are barely noticeable, they are there, and one of those matchups should not occur.

But that has nothing to do with rewarding the top players. They still earned to be the top players, otherwise they would not be able to stomp the other team.

Lux.7169:

snip

I suppose I should clarify my statements as well. I am not against rewarding players in general, but I am against rewards based off of rank on the current leaderboard. Let’s give a reward to everyone that played their qualifying matches in the current system. Great idea; I love it. But rewarding some players more than others for being “higher ranked” in a broken system makes no sense to me.

Azshene.1798:

Divinity.8041:

seriously…

Why would you want to be rewarded for something that nobody actually cares about? Most people at the top cheated/synced and/or abused the MMR system (Hi azh!), and should actually be punished lol.

Care to enlighten me how I did any of those things? I used the term and/or, and everyone knows you are dodging everyone else on the ladder by not playing Don’t call people out based on your assumptions, I simply played normally for the purpose of getting rank 1, which I got by going on a winstreak against good players early on can you really prove these were good players?, and have since then lost interest in playing the PvP side of the game.
The only reason I play every now and then is as a testament to the broken nature of the decay of the system, which is hopefully a more powerful statement than any verbal argument I could make. you just admitted to what I just said about abusing the system, with lack of decay, and you getting a win steak which we don’t know how you got, you are abusing a broken system

You are not the only person who abuses the system, and this is not a “season” where you get to a rank and stop playing, by virtue of you not playing like you say you did, you should have been kicked off the ladder, but like you admit to saying, it is a broken system.

Normally I wouldn’t care because nobody actually cares about rank on SoloQ. You are part of a great team, but please don’t act all righteous and say you legitimately got there in a broken system. You admit the system is broken! Please don’t try to counter argue, because it is simply he said she said. Other top players know exactly what you did, so please don’t try to hide this in such a microcosm of a community.

Show me rank #1 with some actual game played, and then maybe I might have an ounce more of what little respect I have for SOLOQ boards right now.

I understand you are rated #1, but let’s see what happens when you actually start playing games in a working system against people that you might actually lose against.

Let me guess, you are going to stop playing after this resets and claim #1 player in GW2 or something lol.

Divinity.8041:

You are not the only person who abuses the system, and this is not a “season” where you get to a rank and stop playing, by virtue of you not playing like you say you did, you should have been kicked off the ladder, but like you admit to saying, it is a broken system.

Normally I wouldn’t care because nobody actually cares about rank on SoloQ. You are part of a great team, but please don’t act all righteous and say you legitimately got there in a broken system. You admit the system is broken! Please don’t try to counter argue, because it is simply he said she said. Other top players know exactly what you did, so please don’t try to hide this in such a microcosm of a community.

Show me rank #1 with some actual game played, and then maybe I might have an ounce more of what little respect I have for SOLOQ boards right now.

I understand you are rated #1, but let’s see what happens when you actually start playing games in a working system against people that you might actually lose against.

Let me guess, you are going to stop playing after this resets and claim #1 player in GW2 or something lol.

So let me get this straight:

1. By simply playing when the leaderboards were released, and before anyone even knew how they functioned, I abused them simply by playing?

2. The burden of proof lies on me to prove that I did not abuse the system, as opposed to you making the claim?

3. I’m not allowed to defend myself as the fact that I abused the system is self-evident.

4. I probably am unable to regain the rank in a legitimate system and therefore plan to retire claiming my title as R1 in GW2 (A title which has already been taken from me on the leaderboards)

Gotcha…

Your entire post pretty much consists of baseless assumptions, and I don’t much appreciate my name being slandered, as I did in fact legitimately gain rank 1 in a broken system as you put it.

When I said good people, I was referring to people that were ranked highly on the leaderboards at the time, which off the top of my head were some of the following: Super, Boon Sheva, Helseth and Bgsapollo.

Every person I’ve played with or against can attest to the fact that I did not sync queue at any point, whereas you won’t be able to find a single person claiming the contrary.

You will not see my name on top of the leaderboards after the reset, as I have already said that I have no interest in the PvP side of the game any more. Nor will you hear me bragging about R1 soloqueue, as I don’t feel the need to boost my ego by bragging about a title achieved in a broken system. I am far more proud of what I achieved with my team than I am of going 11-0 on the first day of leaderboards and then playing a game every now and then afterwards.

Please stop making baseless assumptions about me, and broadcasting them to the forums, thank you very much.

I spoke to azh, and he is mature. Consider my previous posts null, he doesn’t talk about his rank, so I respect that.

Too many top players on YOLOQ do though, and it kitten es me off!

me and azshene just going rank#1 and rank #2 on teamq boards.

Nothing.8564:

you could still reward top 100 players IF they have more than 100 games played. I think that small requirement would exclude all of the exploiters. Thoughts?

Dumb thread – i can ask some kitten to play 100 games on my account and then get top spot and still sit there and never play – wether you have 100 games and dont play or have 10 and dont play makes no effin difference.

doesnt solve the issue that once you are at the top there is no point in playing -because you can ONLY go down ANYWAY -at all

Nothing “exploity” there

/closed

People claiming getting to the top in legit ways make me lol irl.I mean how naive can you be to not know that if your team wins you can just keep queing because you will always be paired with the same exact players until one of them would just quit.Riding win streaks of even 10 matches in a row and simply quit the 1st match you lose.10/1 ratio, and the real legit players would just lose those 10 in a row and taking it.Thats what the system was and seriously it takes a lot of nerv to claim being a top player and being recognized for it with a title.

why this masters of fail should give now rewards to the top 100 players?
most of them are not good players and stay in top 100 since a few weeks and this only because theres not much strong players left.

the good players who always fight against good teams and stay in ladder top 100 a rly long time should get no rewards because anet kicked us out from top 100 for dont play the sad meta atm.

and the “more less skilled ppls” staying in the ladder top 100 since a few weeks should get a reward?

sry but thats a joke, much good players was hold there top 100 rank rly long time and this ppls also won this rank because they was fight against good ppls in a meta which was need more skill then this fail meta atm.

and now give a reward to some ppls staying in top 100 since some weeks because all the good old players left? thats a joke.

they can give rewards some month after ladder reset and then only when this ladder finaly works well.

Instead of rewarding top rank on the leaderboards why not reward top wins in total? 400 or 500+ wins on soloq is hell to get to and I think we should get rewarded for that. Seriously if you have 500+ wins in soloq, youre a champ for sticking with a terrible system for so long.

I don’t get the point of rewarding players for cheating badly designed content…
7/10 of the people at the top don’t deserve it.

Iksargo.2640:

Lux.7169:

snip

I suppose I should clarify my statements as well. I am not against rewarding players in general, but I am against rewards based off of rank on the current leaderboard. Let’s give a reward to everyone that played their qualifying matches in the current system. Great idea; I love it. But rewarding some players more than others for being “higher ranked” in a broken system makes no sense to me.

Great so it looks like some common ground could emerge. I’d be perfectly fine without some sort of reward for LB. I honestly don’t care that much but I just saw it as a good opportunity to issue rewards based on similar circumstances in the past (made a bunch of hype about how QPs would be useful but then ended up nixing the program and gave them titles).

The common ground I was talking about was rewards in general. I’d be fine if this old LB was completely ignored if there was something else they could issue rewards on. While this is venturing into a different topic altogether I won’t push this issue too much. Although I am curious (if you have some ideas) on what you think would be an appropriate mode for issuing rewards would be, and what those rewards would entail. Like I said though, it’s a different topic and you may not have anything in mind.

Oidmetala.8426:

why this masters of fail should give now rewards to the top 100 players?
most of them are not good players and stay in top 100 since a few weeks and this only because theres not much strong players left.

the good players who always fight against good teams and stay in ladder top 100 a rly long time should get no rewards because anet kicked us out from top 100 for dont play the sad meta atm.

and the “more less skilled ppls” staying in the ladder top 100 since a few weeks should get a reward?

sry but thats a joke, much good players was hold there top 100 rank rly long time and this ppls also won this rank because they was fight against good ppls in a meta which was need more skill then this fail meta atm.

and now give a reward to some ppls staying in top 100 since some weeks because all the good old players left? thats a joke.

they can give rewards some month after ladder reset and then only when this ladder finaly works well.

So youre the guy who tells Anet which meta is rewardable and who deserves a reward even if he already left the game, for beeing mad skilled? Welcome head mastermind of GW2!

Every single player has the same chances on leaderboards, everyone is playing the same meta. So why shouldnt the top beeing rewarded for their hundreds of hours playing this?

Sorry to say dude, but all i hear in your words is mad jealousy, probably of a guy who claims to be a superstar, but isnt able to reach the top. Met dozens of your type…

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

What exactly is broken about matchmaking? In 90% of my matches i get opponents/teammates equal to my ladderrank. Ok, sometimes there is some obscure matchup(guess due to the numbers of actual players), but in a matchup of “topplayers vs. noobs” no one gets anything for his ranking. Theres a kind of hidden ELO system behind the scene, like we know it from other games ladders. So what…?

Loosing to a superstrong team does exactly nothing to your rank. I for example have beaten some top20 players in soloq several times, now im top20 myself with a bad ratio of 60%. Honestly, you can only win if youre matched vs. the elite.

For me it feels pretty legit.

Edo Tensei.8254:

i just had a solo queue tpvp game where i did get matched with 4 people which are rank 1000+ in the solo leaderboard and i am currently rank 74.

the other people which got matched with me was —->
70% Morhith.2871 Entropía 38w 39l 49,35% Ödnis
82% Rivebise.2354 Ringo Brown 23w 9l 71,88% Fort Ranik
61% DiesIrae.9256 Cyklonit 44w 38l 53,66% Piken-Platz
69% bloody mary.2615 Queêzle 7w 6l 53,85% Millersund

and me is —->
r72 Edo Tensei.8254 Ultima Deus 370w 258l 58,92% Flussufer

seriously?

Broken Matchmaking is broken.

+ nice Screenshot how good the Matchmaking was —->
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/112099/gw002.jpg

Edo Tensei.8254:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

What exactly is broken about matchmaking? In 90% of my matches i get opponents/teammates equal to my ladderrank. Ok, sometimes there is some obscure matchup(guess due to the numbers of actual players), but in a matchup of “topplayers vs. noobs” no one gets anything for his ranking. Theres a kind of hidden ELO system behind the scene, like we know it from other games ladders. So what…?

Loosing to a superstrong team does exactly nothing to your rank. I for example have beaten some top20 players in soloq several times, now im top20 myself with a bad ratio of 60%. Honestly, you can only win if youre matched vs. the elite.

For me it feels pretty legit.

Edo Tensei.8254:

i just had a solo queue tpvp game where i did get matched with 4 people which are rank 1000+ in the solo leaderboard and i am currently rank 74.

the other people which got matched with me was —->
70% Morhith.2871 Entropía 38w 39l 49,35% Ödnis
82% Rivebise.2354 Ringo Brown 23w 9l 71,88% Fort Ranik
61% DiesIrae.9256 Cyklonit 44w 38l 53,66% Piken-Platz
69% bloody mary.2615 Queêzle 7w 6l 53,85% Millersund

and me is —->
r72 Edo Tensei.8254 Ultima Deus 370w 258l 58,92% Flussufer

seriously?

Broken Matchmaking is broken.

+ nice Screenshot how good the Matchmaking was —->
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/112099/gw002.jpg

First of all, i cant see anything broken on your screenshot. Theres a team of low ranked players vs a team of high ranked players. Thats exactly how MM worked, equal ranked players are team´ed up to play vs. another equal ranked team(equal rank inside the team, not equal to the opponent team). Of course its no even match, but thats a thing the system handled. If the high ranked team wins, they maybe get 1 or 2 ranks up. If they loose, they loose like 100 ranks because of that uneven match. That the usual way ladders work, in closely every game(look at gw1 gvg i.e.). So thats your argument for not rewarding the top players? Because the MM worked as intended?

And to your selfquoted statement. Maybe you played on some crazy time, where exactly no one except those 10 players queued? Thats a total exception, maybe in 1% of the matchups. I had about 5 of those matchups as well, so what? Cant see this as a reason for not rewarding the top.

And btw, if youre Ultima Deus, than youre the guy from riverside who repeatly shows off in mists chat that hes “the hard carrier”, the guy who easily carries every noob to victory. Youre the guy standing afk in our base after opposite team leaded with 50 points, flaming us while we turned the match with 4 players. A perfect example of one of those players claiming to be the best, but in reality youre just overestimating your own capabilities. Sorry to say, but youre a guy i cant take serious. :P