Ridiculous power creep
Have you considered that it might be that people haven’t learned how to fight against the new specs yet? When you don’t know what skills do, how do you defend against them?
I haven’t gotten the impression of any of the Elite Specs being overpowered yet because for every one that kicks my butt, another is flailing around ineffectively.
Have you considered that it might be that people haven’t learned how to fight against the new specs yet? When you don’t know what skills do, how do you defend against them?
By that token, you assume people have learned to play as the new elite specs to the point where they’re effective. If they’re already doing well now with less than 24hrs played as that spec, something’s probably broken about those specs.
I haven’t gotten the impression of any of the Elite Specs being overpowered yet because for every one that kicks my butt, another is flailing around ineffectively.
Some are okay, some are super strong.
- Holosmith is pretty ridiculous because it can self-stack 25might easily allowing it to dish out crazy damage with defensive abilities on top of the heat mechanic being intended for periods of increased damage.
- Scourge when played well is very defensive and dishes out a lot of conditions. However, this spec at least has some learning curve.
The others I haven’t seen to be overly strong or just haven’t been played well. Firebrand support would be extremely strong if the game was slower paced.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
This is classic though, people QQ’ing the same or next day after something big is released (in this case new elites for testing). I already found counter for the OMG OP Holosmith and Scourge, but yeah people is too lazy for that, so they’ll be nerfed anyway.
Oh, and not just an specific build for killing them, it’s my regular build for ranked lulz.
(edited by Levijeh.9643)
It’s not a matter of whether it can be countered. It’s added power with nothing taken away.
I know when playing Holo, I’m doing WAY WAY more damage than base engi could ever hope to achieve and I’m not giving up anything to get it. I can run through my regular weapon + skill burst, then activate PF and do THAT burst too. It’s just straight power creep.
This is classic though, people QQ’ing the same or next day after something big is released (in this case new elites for testing). I already found counter for the OMG OP Holosmith and Scourge, but yeah people is too lazy for that, so they’ll be nerfed anyway.
Oh, and not just an specific build for killing them, it’s my regular build for ranked lulz.
You probably have a ranged boonstrip build for fighting holosmith. Ya, that wrecks most of them. But very few classes can do that.
I’ve only seen one person who was anywhere decent at scourge. Seemed strong 1v1, but probably lacking in groups as long as people avoid AoE.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
I’ve been playing my reaper destroying people day. PvP is still chess OP sit down and learn the classes go and make other classes and learn there strengths and weaknesses, all games eventually evolves you gotta evolve with it or accept the consequences.
These forums are a joke its not for opinions or debate its just a safe place for people to cry at.
Oh, sure. I was destroying people on my rifle engi too. I just recognize that holo is straight up better by a long shot. It’s adding absurd amounts of damage, and taking away .. nothing.
I think you might be misinterpreting my complaint here. I’m not saying other specs are OP and I can’t fight them. I’m saying they all feel way too good. I shouldn’t be able to do that much damage. It drops the TTK significantly.
(edited by coro.3176)
The only change i really want is old class lines being turned elite so that dual classing is removed.
The thief elite spec is, again, played with trickery as well. Bonus damage, bonus effects on F1, bonus iniative.
And i’ll asume that we’ll get something along the same lines with other classes in the long run.
Have you considered that it might be that people haven’t learned how to fight against the new specs yet? When you don’t know what skills do, how do you defend against them?
By that token, you assume people have learned to play as the new elite specs to the point where they’re effective. If they’re already doing well now with less than 24hrs played as that spec, something’s probably broken about those specs.
Not necessarily. Info for the specs has been available for some time now, allowing people to theorycraft and prepare themselves for their chosen spec. If you’re good at Engineer, you’re not going to suck at Holosmith. May not be at your best yet, because theory can only take you so far, but it’s possible to prepare yourself to play a new spec before trying to do so.
To play a new spec, you don’t need to know what the animations look like. To play against one, you do.
I know when playing Holo, I’m doing WAY WAY more damage than base engi could ever hope to achieve and I’m not giving up anything to get it. I can run through my regular weapon + skill burst, then activate PF and do THAT burst too. It’s just straight power creep.
Meanwhile core warrior deals about the same damage as Spellbreaker, if not more.
Weaver would like a word with you.
I’ve been playing my reaper destroying people day. PvP is still chess OP sit down and learn the classes go and make other classes and learn there strengths and weaknesses, all games eventually evolves you gotta evolve with it or accept the consequences.
You’re playing chess when all of us are still playing checkers, eh?
I’m actually amazed at the balance. There are some issues for sure, but the pvp matches feel quite varied and good right now.
Main problems in my eyes:
Dead-eye malice stacks need to fall off when the dead-eyes walks beyond 2000 feet away from his marked target. It can be gradual, but they can’t simply mark up, walk off and come back for ridiculous burst. Force them to stay on the offense if they want to maintain their high damage.
Holosmith has too much damage in photon forge. I don’t think it’s too bad, but skill 4 (lower by 15%), skill 2 and 3 (lower by 10%).
I’m not too sure on scourge, they didn’t seem overpowered in my eyes, but I hear a lot of complaints. I’ll let others chime in.
Renegade, Weaver, Firebrand (could use some small buffs), and Spirit Beast, Spellbreaker,Mirage (could use some tweaks.)
To me, the powercreep on this expansion is minimal compared to HoT. It feels like the same game with new shinies.
I can only see
Scourge(might be a bit too strong), holosmith and spellbreaker be immediately meta worthy.
Other specs seem don’t have competitive enough build yet. This is hardly power creep.
The thing that I felt during my first day in the demo was that basically no one played a support or healing build (except maybe 1 or 2 firebrands). The crazier the damage of profession/build was, the more it was being played it seems. Maybe its cuz everything is new and people want to try damage builds first, but it looks like that support has quite a marginal role in the new elite specs. Quite a shame.
To me, the powercreep on this expansion is minimal compared to HoT. It feels like the same game with new shinies.
^
I was expecting it to be worse tbh. I’m glad they aren’t trying to kill off HoT specs.
… I still want tengu.
To me, the powercreep on this expansion is minimal compared to HoT. It feels like the same game with new shinies.
^
I was expecting it to be worse tbh. I’m glad they aren’t trying to kill off HoT specs.
Same here
Stella Truth Seeker
i’m surprised that soulbeast being able to endure pain for 11sec is not more hype
. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
for me it some class are great and some are the worst
the OP:
holosmith – the best dmg output
scourage – great condi dmg as ever
the OK:
soulbeast – need to tune down the boons sharing. the dmg is good. i have easy 25 stability might perma quickness etc….
firebrand – need to tune down the burning. dmg is ok. support is ok.
spellbreaker – great unti condi which need to tune down the resistance abilities. dmg is ok
weaver – dmg is good but still more sustain is needed. not good as support. barrier needs more hp buff.
the UP:
renegade – condi spec is worst. need condi handling versus the condi fest out there. need more dmg to the SB for it to be hybrid weapon. cant support nor sustain that well with his utilities. other can do it far better
deadeye – good dmg but easy to be reflected. cant do much in pvp with rifle. so d/p or even s/d/p comeback.
mirage – need more tweaks to be phantasm build. condi is boring and power must come back
New specs are not overpowered at all. They are working as intended, to sell the expansion.
This is the best elementalist build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ
New elites are strong, but some are weaker than the one we already have, or just grant a Different playstyle, without too much difference in damage or survavibility.
The damage overall has increased by a little but not so much.
I love the Firebrand and it’s AoE damage can be really insane, but also lose all the defensive skills of the DH, becoming really easy to chase and kill. I like that thing, making him more a Glasscannon class in sPvP. I didn’t find it a good support elite and Mantras are just bad to support allies. The Tome of Resolve don’t grant enough heal to make the Firebrand survive or be a real support. A Druid or Tempest can do much better.
That new elites don’t kick away the old ones, increasing the build diversity and the variety of playstyle you can find in a match.
Holosmith deals too big damage for sure, but i will keep in mind that this test week end might not be a really good way of evaluating new builds. Everyone is testing builds + unranked mode is full of newcomers/low experienced players. You usually have 3-4 teammates getting rolled on middle point over and over, but it would be the same against a turret engi ( to a lesser extend obviously).
That being said, the problem to me might be the damage output that is too quick, and that might lead to vision issue on big fights. 100b warrior and DH guardians, you would easily predict where the spike will land and still have a few seconds to react. Considering holosmith, this might deal too big and too quick damage on a huge range so that people ( and more likely aged people) would have time to anticipate and react
Having had time to play to play more:
Holosmith
The photon forge #1 and #2 damage is just too high. Using a power amulet, 1200-1500 (non-crit) damage auto-attacks at 0.5s cast just wreck anything. And since they’re auto-attacks, dodging isn’t a viable way to avoid the damage. #2 is a leap which does 2500-3000 (non-crit) on a 2sec CD which makes them harder to kite.
The might stacking at high heat is also a bit of a problem.
However, the rest of holosmith is fine, maybe even too weak.
Scourge
Scourge has over-the-top condition damage, mostly from two places:
1. Punishment skills are too stacked. They strip a boon, apply 2x torment, and cripple in addition to other effects. Trail of Anguish is particularly stacked and Ghastly Breach makes Plaguelands look like a joke.
2. Demonic Lore is either overpowered or bugged. It’s giving a stack of burning for each stack of torment. That adds a lot of hurt since scourge is loaded with torment, but if you get hit by scepter #3, you just melt.
So at least the specs aren’t broken to their core like HoT specs. Tweaking a few skills/traits will bring them in line while keeping them playable and interesting.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
Having had time to play to play more:
Holosmith
The photon forge #1 and #2 damage is just too high. Using a power amulet, 1200-1500 (non-crit) damage auto-attacks at 0.5s cast just wreck anything. And since they’re auto-attacks, dodging isn’t a viable way to avoid the damage. #2 is a leap which does 2500-3000 (non-crit) on a 2sec CD which makes them harder to kite.
The might stacking at high heat is also a bit of a problem.
However, the rest of holosmith is fine, maybe even too weak.
There are a lot of skills that hit harder than those in the game, so I don’t follow your complaint here. Some numbers with zero context isn’t much in the way of useful feedback…
Some other food for thought on Holosmith is that it gets deleted by condi pressure. Holosmith can be setup with a fair bit of mobility via leaps (PF#2, rocket boots + gadgeteer, rifle) that it can certainly roam, but on the flip side the specialization lacks enough survivability options to avoid getting snacked on by current meta roamers.
I’m curious how you set up because the sword is pretty clunky so you’ve very little pressure outside of proton forge mode; rifle being your best option. I’ve found the condi variant to be fairly lackluster – others just do condi much more effectively tbh.
I’m not suggesting the class is weak or underpowered, instead its refreshing to see the devs create professions that have soft spots and aren’t good at (or trying to be) at everything — that goes for all of the PoF elite specs.
@Naix.8156
What’s hard to understand? Equip an a power amulet (+1050 or +1200 power), activate Photon Forge, and auto-attack (#1 chain) or use #2 on a test NPC (or player). Look at the numbers and compare them to what you get on a similar 0.5sec melee weapon (or scale it to a 0.75sec one). What weapon you have normally shouldn’t matter since Photon Forge is essentially a kit.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
I partly disagree.
The powercreep, IMO, seems to come from Holosmith and Scourge. That seems to be the consensus. Those do a _ton_of damage. They need to be toned down. Otherwise, all the other specs seem to be fine to me.