Guild Wars 2

By this I mean turreteers who bunker down a point and are extremely hard to kill while still dealing excellent damage.

Before you call this QQ, I actually play this build these days when I’m tired and still want to win. My point is that this build is very braindead. You put down your turrets and pop their skills as you see fit, and just use rifle to immo, knockback and deal heavy damage. It’s easier than playing the warrior and deals even more damage.

Compared to others classes, this build is almost impossible to counter 1v1 and becomes even stronger in teamfights, when the healsplosions also heal your team while throwing enemy players around to get bursted. Drop down a supply crate on top of them and you’ve got even more turrets and healing. I’ve literally never lost a team fight with this combo.

I really don’t know why Anet decided to buff turrets this much. It’s too much, for too little effort. It isn’t a lot of fun to play nor is it fun to fight, because you know the other player’s having the AI do all the work.

Most AI dependant builds allow the AI minions to be AoE nuked if another player is able to deal enough damage. This build does not, the turrets actually survive a lot of punishment. Armour or HP should be decreased to allow a player with big AoE to focus on taking down the turrets so there’s actually a counter. Not all classes are able to deal huge AoE damage.

I know I’ll get flamed by people who disagree but I really feel like this build detracts from the game.

Those are known as turret engineers and/or turreteers. I wouldn’t really call them rifle engineers. Engis are usually categorised by their utility skill selection. As you can see by skimming through this board, they are part of the braindead trifecta (PU Mesmer, Turret Engi and Minion Master), because they rely heavily on AI. None of the other builds are as effective as the turreteer, though. Thats why you see them in mid and low tier pvp. Its one of the most hated builds and even known engi players call it toxic. Although its not as effective as some people might think, the tendency of players to “feed” it by going 1v1 against it (because even if you win, it usually takes time. You know, enough time for a team mate of the engi to make a 1v2 out if it). Basically, a smart team ignores the turret engi and goes 5v4 against the turret engi’s team on the other two points or they gank him, because unless you’re a condi class, the rocket turret should be wet paper in your hands.

That being said, turrets need to be reworked. They are absolutely useless in PvE and absolutely braindead in PvP. I don’t think they’re worth anything in WvW either, because massive amounts of AoE in zergs and limited mobility of the build in roaming.

OP
L2P.

/ • Message Body length must at least be 15.

Mouseheart pretty much sums up the whole problem.
It’s very powerful 1v1 and if they don’t move, they can be ignored. Sadly, the better ones actually move where their team needs them. At this point the fight generally turns into a “stability or get dead” scenario. At least that’s what happens when I run it. Only a bunker guard with blocks and stability lives, really.

In the meantime, it’s terrible in WvW and situational at best in PvE. Weird design choice. I’d vote for squishier turrets with a lower cooldown if they’re picked up. That way a fast nuke in PvP will deal with them, wheras a skilled engie can try to save them if they get low.

Will also help being more usefull in PvE because you can place them down faster if they not killed. They won’t be viable in WvW ever I think, simply due to the burst.

Tao.5096:

OP
L2P.

/ • Message Body length must at least be 15.

You had nothing better to add? I don’t get people who spam this message and assume that explains everything. I play a turret engie. And it’s not fun nor balanced.

It’s balanced and not op. That’s what everyone’s saying.

Aedrion.6483:

You had nothing better to add? I don’t get people who spam this message and assume that explains everything. I play a turret engie. And it’s not fun nor balanced.

So?
Because it’s not fun for you and you believe it’s not balanced, then it require a nerf of some kind?

Yes, in your case and alike, there is nothing better to add than “L2P”.
You know why?
Because something you can’t deal with, automatically become OP or “non balanced” and all you can do is “ask” for nerf.
Nope.
Turret Engineer isn’t either easy nor hard to kill and it’s not OP or immortal.
It’s annoying till some point, but blame yourself and others who think like you and can’t figure out how to deal with that build.

I’d rather have a cele ele nerf over a cele engi nerf. Cele engis have more counters than a cele ele.

The problem with turret engies(and to a lesser extent some warrior builds and MMs) is that the skill to reward ratio is way too high. Extremely low skill builds shouldn’t ever be good when compared to a normal skill build. I’d be fine with turret engies if there was way more micro involved. For instance, what if turrets didn’t auto heal, but instead healed when their abilities where activated. Also, the base damage needs to be lowered a lot and the active abilities effectiveness increased, but with obvious animations on the turrets.

Tao.5096:

OP
L2P.

/ • Message Body length must at least be 15.

hahaahah. Turret engi who doesn’t want to admit the truth.

turrets are strong enough to win you an on-point 1v1 no matter your skill level. if someone accepts the challenge, they are dumb or inexperienced, but you feel really good about yourself for winning the duel cuz you won it. #winning

Turrets are kittenedly OP.

As a glass build, I’ve gotten killed by a single thumper turret and 1 rocket turret before. Just 2 freakin turrets…Engi just left it there and went to another point. That shows just how much damage turrets do while having an insane amount of HP.

There is no reason why a player should have to waste so much effort and blow his heal just to kill a single AI utility like a turret.

Aedrion.6483:

Mouseheart pretty much sums up the whole problem.
It’s very powerful 1v1 and if they don’t move, they can be ignored. Sadly, the better ones actually move where their team needs them. At this point the fight generally turns into a “stability or get dead” scenario. At least that’s what happens when I run it. Only a bunker guard with blocks and stability lives, really.

In the meantime, it’s terrible in WvW and situational at best in PvE. Weird design choice. I’d vote for squishier turrets with a lower cooldown if they’re picked up. That way a fast nuke in PvP will deal with them, wheras a skilled engie can try to save them if they get low.

Will also help being more usefull in PvE because you can place them down faster if they not killed. They won’t be viable in WvW ever I think, simply due to the burst.

Tao.5096:

OP
L2P.

/ • Message Body length must at least be 15.

You had nothing better to add? I don’t get people who spam this message and assume that explains everything. I play a turret engie. And it’s not fun nor balanced.

Turrets are very strong for one thing: bloodlust nodes. I fought a turret engi on Yak’s Bend and got lucky because I was using a condi build, he was genuinely bunkering the node and holding it.

oh no they are fine because any class/build that takes a very specialized and uselesss in all other occasions class/build or 2 people to kill is perfectly ok

style.6173:

Tao.5096:

OP
L2P.

/ • Message Body length must at least be 15.

hahaahah. Turret engi who doesn’t want to admit the truth.

Totally. Especially when I mostly play warrior or necromancer.

zapv.8051:

The problem with turret engies(and to a lesser extent some warrior builds and MMs) is that the skill to reward ratio is way too high. Extremely low skill builds shouldn’t ever be good when compared to a normal skill build. I’d be fine with turret engies if there was way more micro involved. For instance, what if turrets didn’t auto heal, but instead healed when their abilities where activated. Also, the base damage needs to be lowered a lot and the active abilities effectiveness increased, but with obvious animations on the turrets.

Turret Engineer is a low skill vs bots.

It’s indeed a build with a lot of hate. The best strategy to counter them is actually to leave them alone, similar to PU condie mesmer. However, they are much better than pu condie mesmer in a way that they can actually hold a point…

omg dude
l2p how to kill fast that engy with turret
he dont got condition clean (just healing turret and some traits with melandru rune), focus on him with condition and bring stability on u (if u run thief sword or stealth work to)
turret engy dont got stability or stun break, interrupt him when try to heal (ht got 20 sec on CD)
sure some build cant do anything on turret engy, but is easy to counter

I don’t find turret engies that hard to fight on my power ranger. The first thing I do is burst down the rocket turret, which means their biggest source of DPS is gone. After that it’s a nice Barrage right onto the middle of the point, which not only applies pressure on the engie, but will likely also destroy whatever turret he has standing on it (usually thumper, though net and flame are sometimes used too). And now that two of his turrets are on a 50s cd, it’s time for the kill, which is quite easy, since he has no stunbreakers and no stability.

here we go again. round and round.
l2p. period.

As with all classes you have a hard time playing against…. you should try the class/build before going off on some rant about how its op, because you just end up looking like a total noob. …and you figure out what the build’s weaknesses are immediately.

Here’s a copy-pasted response that everyone complaining about turret engineers should read:

If an engineer sacrifices all of his utility skills and traits to make his turrets stronger, he will not be doing very much damage with his actual weapon, and will be doing practically 0 damage without his turrets.

People don’t know how to fight against a turret engineer, and end up losing due to ignorance.

You have to take out the turrets (at least some of them) before diving headfirst onto a point where an engineer has his turrets.

A well placed Elementalist AoE, Ranger Barrage, Necromancer Life Transfer, etc. can easily destroy (if not severely damage) ALL of a turret engineer’s turrets.

If you want to know which turret to target first… its the rocket turret.

Turret engineer is a build that melts noobs, and doesn’t scare experienced players.
Without the turrets, the engineer is a sitting duck, and taking out the turrets should be your first priority.

What I like to see is greater downsides to moving around spamming skills aimlessly.

It’s great that you can move and use most skills,it’s one of the things that make other games for me unbearable, like when I tried Age of Connan and my character stopped just to fire a freaking bow and I could not no longer bear playing that game past that, but in no way you should be as effective running around than standing still.

The risk you take by standing still has to be compensated, much like you get greater accuracy in many FPS games by standing still and/or crouching than hen moving around.

When you just move around someone, a little extra latency can make their skills fail constantly unless they stop moving, as right when the skills are about to activate you have moved outside the valid range cone (usually behind them), and when holding the right mouse to move, the character won’t face the target on its own like when standing still without touching movement keys. Moving away also works to hit someone running in circles around you, to keep them in front of you, but that won’t do when you need to stay inside a capture point.

This does not happen with builds that work with aimless spamming.

There’s mostly 4 types of targeting:

• Direct like flamestrike. These already have a downside, but not on all skills. If you activate them while running around aimlessly, the target may get behind you, and then the skill will fail to activate or stop channeling. Some skills will still working, so those should be fixed.
• Projectiles. Some skills stray a lot, like Poison Dart Volley. This should be developed even further. If you move, the straying pattern should be wider, if you don’t move, it should be narrower. Not all projectiles have this downside, though. And some have hit boxes too big that will still hit you even if you clearly avoided the projectile with movement.
• Cleaves. Cleaves really, really need some fixing. Nothing should be able to hit through a wall like they do. Yes, you need to face the target, that’s one downside, but you can do so through a freaking 1-metter thick wall, and still hit them without an Obstructed. Luckily capture points do not have obstacles that have that advantage, but in courtyard, with all the pillars, narrow corridors and obstacles, hitting people through walls and pillars is more common.
• Areas. These are the main problem with this issue. They not only can go past certain obstacles like cleaves, you don’t really need to aim them at all. You can just run around throwing them where you think the enemy will be. If the enemy has a little lag, you can predict much more easily where they’ll be and they’ll have much more trouble avoiding them. And no matter how much I think about it, I don’t think this can be solved without ruining many builds. Just because a few builds abuse areas you can’t ruin all other builds that use them. What can you do? Skills or combos that can clear or prevent other areas in an area, kind of like Gust of Wind in Atari’s Neverwinter Nights? Then people will be forced to bring them to counter area spams, and if you are going to force someone to bring some counter, they could as well bring any of the other counters already existing. A solution to this should work across a wider variety of builds without having to bring something specific.

In short: If you move around like a headless chicken, you should be less efficient that if you stay still, take a target and hit precisely.