Guild Wars 2

Greetings, i’m returning since a long break (who isn’t?), i made up my mind and i want to level up a profession to level 80 at least once.
At the moment i’m going for the pvp route, aka stacking 60 tomes of knowledge then levelling up 20-80 immediatly, meanwhile i’ll have all the time to choose a profession.

The reason i’m posting this in the pvp forum is because a question popped up and i’ve been rightfully suggested to ask here.
Quote from the original thread:
“I’ve been playing thief for quite a bunch of hours and there are times i really feel totally useless, for example when i’m facing guardians or condi engis, regardless of the build i choose.
It feels very rock-paper-scissor to me: thieves can’t deal with guardians at all, engineers can only hope to escape from a condi necro, rangers have trouble with mesmers(dem reflects), etc etc.
It feels every profession has a fixed counter regardless of the build.
So question is: is my thought completely wrong? If yes, why? If no, which profession has the least amount of “fixed” counters that can’t be countered with particuliar builds(for example engineer vs condi necro, not even elixir C wouldn’t save you)?”

Since i’m making another thread already, i’d squeeze in another question: which are the professions with the most/least bugged/useless abilities and traits?

Thanks in advance for any reply.

I think you are wrong, With specific builds you can counter specific builds, every profession have traits and trait lines to do DMG, remove conditions, control, etc. The problem is, when you go to a specific counter build, normally you lose hard in another encounters.

About second question, Engineer. He have the most useful and least bugged abilities of the game.

klarkc.3754:

I think you are wrong, With specific builds you can counter specific builds, every profession have traits and trait lines to do DMG, remove conditions, control, etc. The problem is, when you go to a specific counter build, normally you lose hard in another encounters.

About second question, Engineer. He have the most useful and least bugged abilities of the game.

But then, assuming the battleground is a medium sized box with no different heights, how does an engineer beat a terrormancer (or thief beat a guardian) of equal skill?
That’s of course one single enviroment, but even with all condi reduction/removal traits, healing turret, elixir C, elixir gun and whatelse it’s almost impossible to win that particuliar fight.

I think too much…

ButterOfDeath.2873:

klarkc.3754:

I think you are wrong, With specific builds you can counter specific builds, every profession have traits and trait lines to do DMG, remove conditions, control, etc. The problem is, when you go to a specific counter build, normally you lose hard in another encounters.

About second question, Engineer. He have the most useful and least bugged abilities of the game.

But then, assuming the battleground is a medium sized box with no different heights, how does an engineer beat a terrormancer (or thief beat a guardian) of equal skill?
That’s of course one single enviroment, but even with all condi reduction/removal traits, healing turret, elixir C, elixir gun and whatelse it’s almost impossible to win that particuliar fight.

I think too much…

Well it depends on the situation but you can still pull out a victory. At the moment there isn’t any true hard counters because depending on the situation you could still win. A Terrormancer will be running with 2 stunbreaks, so you can bait the wurm and spectral out first with two rounds of overcharged shot and then go ham with slick shoes. Your nades have a bigger range than their staff so as long as you dodge staff 4 and dagger 4 then that matchup can definitely be won.

Benjamin.8237:

ButterOfDeath.2873:

klarkc.3754:

I think you are wrong, With specific builds you can counter specific builds, every profession have traits and trait lines to do DMG, remove conditions, control, etc. The problem is, when you go to a specific counter build, normally you lose hard in another encounters.

About second question, Engineer. He have the most useful and least bugged abilities of the game.

But then, assuming the battleground is a medium sized box with no different heights, how does an engineer beat a terrormancer (or thief beat a guardian) of equal skill?
That’s of course one single enviroment, but even with all condi reduction/removal traits, healing turret, elixir C, elixir gun and whatelse it’s almost impossible to win that particuliar fight.

I think too much…

Well it depends on the situation but you can still pull out a victory. At the moment there isn’t any true hard counters because depending on the situation you could still win. A Terrormancer will be running with 2 stunbreaks, so you can bait the wurm and spectral out first with two rounds of overcharged shot and then go ham with slick shoes. Your nades have a bigger range than their staff so as long as you dodge staff 4 and dagger 4 then that matchup can definitely be won.

Except that the engineer would need to outplay the necromancer, as one/two fears would kill you.
I mean, you’d have to carefully outrange the necromancer’s staff, pop the necro’s stunbreaks (he can just insta-fear you instead of popping them btw) and then you must also avoid using too many conditions. Instead, once the necro fears you into a spectral wall it’s kind of over.
Thus that all sums to “run away from/kite what you can’t beat” which i despise as a thing.
That’d be fine if you could build yourself to counter that specific build, but in some cases your opponent is guaranteed the upper hand.

I know it’s kind of a little thing (just rocket boost away huehue) but it grinds my gears quite alot.
It’s like when a warrior can GS#3 over those short gaps of skyhammer, but a thief can’t SB#5 over them…it doesn’t really matter at all but it greatly hurts your feelings lol.

engi > all /thread

Dodge transfers and interupt consume conditions and you win.

NeXeD.3042:

Dodge transfers and interupt consume conditions and you win.

You really underestimate necros imo: dodging the staff transfer is hard (they could just staff #2,#3 and bait both your dodges as the animation is the same), they can fear you anytime and start chaining conditions, if you stun break they can do it again with either staff 5 (which they can bait, just like staff 4) or spectral wall.
Really, try to hold a point vs a capable terrormancer as an engineer…

ButterOfDeath.2873:

NeXeD.3042:

Dodge transfers and interupt consume conditions and you win.

You really underestimate necros imo: dodging the staff transfer is hard (they could just staff #2,#3 and bait both your dodges as the animation is the same), they can fear you anytime and start chaining conditions, if you stun break they can do it again with either staff 5 (which they can bait, just like staff 4) or spectral wall.
Really, try to hold a point vs a capable terrormancer as an engineer…

I main a necro. I didn’t say it was easy…. I simply stated how to win. If you load me up with condis and I haven’t blown my transfers yet then you should know it’s going to come right after you load me. Load me up and try for some sort of hard CC before I can transfer or if you have dodges which since you pretty much have perma vigor swiftNess you should have plenty.

I understand there is alot to the fight but there is alot to any fight….. also learning what classes to avoid is part of the game….

With that said engi is in a pretty good place right now so it’s not surprising an Engi would be crying about a condi necro since it is the closest thing to a hard counter there is.

There are going to be counters and hard counters it’s how the meta evolves.

Also spectral wall isn’t that great if your falling for that kitten you got other problems.

NeXeD.3042:

ButterOfDeath.2873:

NeXeD.3042:

Dodge transfers and interupt consume conditions and you win.

You really underestimate necros imo: dodging the staff transfer is hard (they could just staff #2,#3 and bait both your dodges as the animation is the same), they can fear you anytime and start chaining conditions, if you stun break they can do it again with either staff 5 (which they can bait, just like staff 4) or spectral wall.
Really, try to hold a point vs a capable terrormancer as an engineer…

I main a necro. I didn’t say it was easy…. I simply stated how to win. If you load me up with condis and I haven’t blown my transfers yet then you should know it’s going to come right after you load me. Load me up and try for some sort of hard CC before I can transfer or if you have dodges which since you pretty much have perma vigor swiftNess you should have plenty.

I understand there is alot to the fight but there is alot to any fight….. also learning what classes to avoid is part of the game….

With that said engi is in a pretty good place right now so it’s not surprising an Engi would be crying about a condi necro since it is the closest thing to a hard counter there is.

There are going to be counters and hard counters it’s how the meta evolves.

Also spectral wall isn’t that great if your falling for that kitten you got other problems.

Actually i’ve played more necro than engi and my arguments were based off the fact i melted any engineer i’ve met(some of them were really good players too).
And yes, i’ve proudly been using spectral wall: the initial idea was a counter to melee while being tanky, then when i didn’t need it for that purpose i’d just place it behind feared enemies or underneat people for an instant fear. Really it’s better than it seems.

Either way, the second question has been answered already, but the first isn’t: at the end of the day, which is (in your opinion) the profession that can build in order not to have any hard counters (like the example we’ve just discussed)? If there’s none, which ones are closest?

I’ll still be trying (almost) them all during these few days of tome farming, but since i’m not very experienced and knowledge is power…

The answer to your question is either celestial rifle engi or d/D ele but you will always run into soft counters, hard counters, players and situations that you cannot win against. Part of the game is understanding what you can do against what builds and how to rotate accordingly.

I didn’t mean you specifically were crying, just that it would make sense that an engi would cry about one. I’ve met engineers that worked me over pretty good, you said it yourself you are not experienced my guess is they weren’t as good as you or they thought.

NeXeD.3042:

The answer to your question is either celestial rifle engi or d/D ele but you will always run into soft counters, hard counters, players and situations that you cannot win against. Part of the game is understanding what you can do against what builds and how to rotate accordingly.

I didn’t mean you specifically were crying, just that it would make sense that an engi would cry about one. I’ve met engineers that worked me over pretty good, you said it yourself you are not experienced my guess is they weren’t as good as you or they thought.

I was referring as profession as all the possible builds combined, not a build to rule them all. (for example, it’s obvious i have to be wary of a mesmer if using a LB/SB ranger, but i don’t always have to as a ranger)
Either way, it’s kind of sad that each profession has those unfavorable fights regardless of the build somebody chooses.

If you didn’t hAve some unfavorable matchups you wouldn’t have balance.

I don’t understand what you are asking….. “i was referring as profession as all possible builds” no idea what that means.

NeXeD.3042:

If you didn’t hAve some unfavorable matchups you wouldn’t have balance.

I don’t understand what you are asking….. “i was referring as profession as all possible builds” no idea what that means.

I mean if that i’m class X and i take condi removal, i can deal with condi based opponents well enough to have approx 50% win rate, same way if i build to absorb alot of damage then you’ll have little problems against somebody willing to slash your face.
However, if as class Y i take all damage reduction possible and still have issues against physical opponents, then it’s not that right.

Of course, if class X takes a lot of condition removal traits and abilities, it’ll have issues recovering after being stabbed a few times, while if it takes alot of defensive traits and abilities it’ll probably bleed and/or burn to death.

Basically: as long as your opponent is another player, you know his/her exact build and he/she isn’t going to change it at all, is it possible to have a favorable/fine matchup? (by fine i mean 50% chance of victory at equal skill)
In the case of engineer, then the answer would be no because you’ll always have an unfavorable matchup against a condi necro ( just an example).

It’s obvious every build can be soft countered to an extent, but it’s quite sad if a profession will always and regardless have to fear some matchups regardless of the abilities and traits chosen.

Well a condi or celestial engi wouldn’t necessarily be countered by a power necro depending on weapon sets and utilities. It’s not always class x counters class y it depends on builds. You see most people saying necro counters engi just because we see more condi necros and condi or celestial engis

NeXeD.3042:

Well a condi or celestial engi wouldn’t necessarily be countered by a power necro depending on weapon sets and utilities. It’s not always class x counters class y it depends on builds. You see most people saying necro counters engi just because we see more condi necros and condi or celestial engis

That’s beyond the point, if you see a necro as an engineer you’ll still be afraid it’s a condi one and if it is then you’ll either run away or hold the point as much as you can then run away (almost) all the times.
Regardless of it being only part of a profession, it’s still an opponent you’re very unlikely to beat regardless of your setup.

Basically what i’m trying to do is choosing a class that can accomodate your needs: your opponent is going to make you bleed to death? Then take enough condi removal; your opponent is going to stab you in the back? then heal up that damage or evade it; your opponent is going to pew pew you your face? then take that reflect and return everything to sender.

If a profession is permanently unlikely to win certain fights then it may not be for me…and if no profession meets that requirement (aside the fact it’d be a terrible design choice) then i’d pick the one that suffers the least from this issue.

Your talking in circles man.

Nothing I said is “beyond the point”

It seems like you are just new and having l2p issues to be honest.

The profession you want is d/D cele ele.

You can tell what kind of necro by their weapons and when you get hit by one.

NeXeD.3042:

Your talking in circles man.

Nothing I said is “beyond the point”

It seems like you are just new and having l2p issues to be honest.

The profession you want is d/D cele ele.

You can tell what kind of necro by their weapons and when you get hit by one.

d/d ele isn’t a profession, it’s a build.
Almost every power necro uses staff regardless and indeed once you get hit you either choose to fight for a little and run or keep fighting (in the case you’re an engineer).

What you said is that a cele rifle engineer(build) isn’t necessarily counter by power necro(build too, which i’m not questioning)…and that’s indeed beyond the point.

By the way, my skill at playing the game doesn’t matter: i’ve always been comparing two builds played with equal skill and it’s clear that in such an impossible enviroment (as you’d need to clone somebody) a condi necro would have the upper hand against any engineer.

Now i wonder, why do you keep calling builds rather than professions? ò.ò

i think warrior has the fewest hard counters to worry about.

Solstice.1097:

i think warrior has the fewest hard counters to worry about.

Can you type which are those fewest hard counters?

ButterOfDeath.2873:

Solstice.1097:

i think warrior has the fewest hard counters to worry about.

Can you type which are those fewest hard counters?

depends what weapons, runes, sigils, amulet, traits, heal, utilities, and elite you are running.

lol

ButterOfDeath.2873:

NeXeD.3042:

Your talking in circles man.

Nothing I said is “beyond the point”

It seems like you are just new and having l2p issues to be honest.

The profession you want is d/D cele ele.

You can tell what kind of necro by their weapons and when you get hit by one.

d/d ele isn’t a profession, it’s a build.
Almost every power necro uses staff regardless and indeed once you get hit you either choose to fight for a little and run or keep fighting (in the case you’re an engineer).

What you said is that a cele rifle engineer(build) isn’t necessarily counter by power necro(build too, which i’m not questioning)…and that’s indeed beyond the point.

By the way, my skill at playing the game doesn’t matter: i’ve always been comparing two builds played with equal skill and it’s clear that in such an impossible enviroment (as you’d need to clone somebody) a condi necro would have the upper hand against any engineer.

Now i wonder, why do you keep calling builds rather than professions? ò.ò

Because that’s how it works, it’s build vs build not just profession vs profession.