Guild Wars 2

I think there’s a lot of aspects to pvp that aren’t immediately obvious, and you’ve highlighted that well. All these items listed should be considered when designing a build, or more so a team.

My only criticism is that the list seems a little muddled. Some of the roles here are broad, some very specific. Maybe just think about if there’s a way to organize the list a bit, maybe group specific tasks under broader role definitions. I haven’t been able to come up with specific suggestions for that, just something to chew on.

Brigg.6189:

I think there’s a lot of aspects to pvp that aren’t immediately obvious, and you’ve highlighted that well. All these items listed should be considered when designing a build, or more so a team.

My only criticism is that the list seems a little muddled. Some of the roles here are broad, some very specific. Maybe just think about if there’s a way to organize the list a bit, maybe group specific tasks under broader role definitions. I haven’t been able to come up with specific suggestions for that, just something to chew on.

Thanks for the feedback Brigg. I will definitely give it some thought and see what I can do to group them more broadly.

Also really nice job so far though. Forgot to mention that.

Blackjack.5621:

roles like this don´t exsist. You can´t just say -> I would like to fit these roles and make a build to fill them.

real roles are:

hammer longbow warrior
s/d thief
bunker guard
terror necro
spirit ranger
shatter mesmer

so if you try anything else, one of those builds above can do your job better, so you rather pick one of the listed builds and see in what roles you can use them.

The current trait system pigeonholes classes and does not allow for diversity cause you have to follow the synergies and op traits in the traitlines and you can´t balance traits without affecting other builds. A system where you choose your role/playstyle first and then get access to some trait choices is much better.

Sorry for hijacking this thread. I was really interested in what the OP posted, but sadly the discussion took a different route and will not be what I wanted anymore.

However, I’d like to know these things, since I’ve just started playing sPvP (I had a lot of fun in hotjoin though):
Of the characters you mentioned, what are their SUPPOSED roles?
I know that everything must be done according to the situation and that a player must learn to adapt.

I know already that the bunker guard is supposed to hold the mid point.

S/D thieves (or D/P ones) can reliably land a huge burst of damage while keeping a moderate defense – so they make for great roamers: they are supposed to roam from point to point, pick targets who are at low health and keep pressure on them, keeping the point safe.
What about other roles? Why is spirit ranger that op? What can HE do that another class/build cannot?
Assuming everything is going smoothly, which class has to focus on the close point? And which one must focus on the far point?

I really want to know this, because I want to learn how to improve myself and I always end up wandering around in the map, getting killed if there are 2 or more enemies, winning my 1v1s and stuff – and I can do this with almost any class. That’s why I would like to know more about this.

The roles go like this:

• Mid-point Bunker: Responsible for holding the capture of a point during teamfights. Often the tankiest member of a team, their low damage output is offset by the support and utility they provide. Best classes: Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist.
• Close-point Defender: Responsible for capturing and retaining capture of the team’s close-point. When home is secure, they often either rotate to mid or to far, according to the team’s strategy. Close-point defender builds are usually somewhat selfish, as they are geared towards winning 1v1 fights against enemy far-point assaulters, and will either be aggressively built for getting quick kills, or defensively oriented with knockbacks for getting and retaining capture. Best classes: Warrior, Ranger, Engineer.
• Far-point Assaulter: Similar role to the close-point defender, except the job here is to put continuous pressure on the enemy team’s home. The biggest difference here is that it becomes more important to have a reliable method of disengaging since it is easier for the enemy to collapse on their home point, especially after respawns. Best classes: Thief, Warrior, Engineer.
• Teamfighter: A dps character whose build is set up for doing well in larger-scale fights (3v3 and up). These builds tend to be based at least partly around dealing AoE damage to multiple targets at once, and may run one or more utilities that have little or no effect in duels, such as res utilities or other support effects. Best classes: Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior.
• Roamer: Responsible for moving around the map quickly, getting to wherever is most advantageous for the team. Since their role does not often involve maintaining control of points, roamers are built for high damage, but low defense. Built this way, roamers can enter fights and quickly sway the outcome for their team before they leave again to continue roaming. Possible objectives include: decapping or capturing unattended points, finishing off low-health enemies, and ganking badly positioned or high-priority enemy targets. Best classes: Thief, Warrior, Mesmer.

Keep in mind, this guide is more meant for newer players, and is a bit simplified for ease of understanding. It doesn’t necessarily cover all possibilities, and the “best classes” is a matter of opinion and changes with the class balance and metagame. Teams contain various mixes, and won’t always fill all the roles that I’ve listed.

I like how detailed Icetrinity’s breakdown is. The main problem with “balance”, as I see it, is that some professions are able to fulfil any of those roles by speccing into different builds, while otehrs only one or two (contrast thieves and warriors as an extreme example). Furthermore, within each profession, there are certain individual builds which can pack in so much utility that they can fulfil multiple roles (eg spirit rangers can bunker a point solo, but also provide great group support with their spirits; or for another example condition necros, who were always awesome in team fights, getting dhuumfire and thus became a lot more viable in 1v1 situations as well).
So it isn’t a matter of “why is X overpowered?”, but more a matter of “why is X decent and capable at so many more roles than me?” This problem is obviously exacerbated if you mostly play solo queue, as you don’t have control of what roles your other teammates can fulfil and you’re often forced to play a certain role not because you’re the best at it because you’re the least incapable of it. This means the playerbase 0tends to gravitate towards either selfish builds, so they can be sure of winning 1v1s, or these few supremely flexible builds that can fulfil multiple roles.

To my mind, this imbalance isn’t solely due to the game mechanics: for the most part, it’s actually due to the game mode! Conquest needs a lot of running around between points, it splits up the team excessively, and punishes group-support builds by limiting them to only one role. In other words, many of the roles Icetrinity outlined exist exclusively in the Conquest gametype, and would be out of place in any other environment! In a pure TDM game, for instance, I suspect people would gravitate towards only 3 roles:
a. damage
b. defence/group support
c. utility and shutdown
Some people would specialise in one of the above, and a lot more would come up with builds that would fulfil 2 or all 3 of the above in different proportions. Suddenly, but limiting the number of “roles”, you open up the number of build variety tremendously, allowing for things that aren’t really optimal in conquest to have their day, even in solo queue with random teammates.

Not that I’m advocating TDM as a competitive tournament game mode tbh. It would be fun to have for casual play but I don’t think it would work for gw2. Instead, a return to GW1-style GvG (TDM with secondary objectives) would do wonders for the competitive scene in this game!

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

I’ve played this game since some of the first closed betas, mostly focusing on pvp. I have never seen anyone go for builds that could actually fulfill these roles. People just go with whatever is the easiest with highest reward.
I’m not saying that you can’t create a build to fulfill these roles, I’m simply saying that it’s definitely not needed. There is no reason to create these roles, since one or two more basic and general roles/builds can accomplish everything that is needed in the current meta.

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

I’ve played this game since some of the first closed betas, mostly focusing on pvp. I have never seen anyone go for builds that could actually fulfill these roles. People just go with whatever is the easiest with highest reward.
I’m not saying that you can’t create a build to fulfill these roles, I’m simply saying that it’s definitely not needed. There is no reason to create these roles, since one or two more basic and general roles/builds can accomplish everything that is needed in the current meta.

so using unbalanced build for own advantage and stomping the enemy and wonder why any of the other roles, required in a even fight, dont be needed?

but actual its not all about roles. strategie/ tactic is also important. splits and how have a greater impact.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

You’re kidding yourself if you think, that people create (and use) builds, specifically to “Stomp Prevent” or “Body Cleave”. A standard condition Necro with marks can do both, in every single situation imaginable.

And please stop being so kitten condescending. You’re basically saying; “If you had a higher skill-level, like me, you’d understand all these roles”. I happen to know KrisHQ, and we’ve both played high tier tournament PvP from the very beginning of the game.

Adian.8756:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

You’re kidding yourself if you think, that people create (and use) builds, specifically to “Stomp Prevent” or “Body Cleave”. A standard condition Necro with marks can do both, in every single situation imaginable.

And please stop being so kitten condescending. You’re basically saying; “If you had a higher skill-level, like me, you’d understand all these roles”. I happen to know KrisHQ, and we’ve both played high tier tournament PvP from the very beginning of the game.

I wasn’t trying to be condescending? I was just putting it into different perspective. Sorry, I won’t do that again.

Adian.8756:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

You’re kidding yourself if you think, that people create (and use) builds, specifically to “Stomp Prevent” or “Body Cleave”. A standard condition Necro with marks can do both, in every single situation imaginable.

And please stop being so kitten condescending. You’re basically saying; “If you had a higher skill-level, like me, you’d understand all these roles”. I happen to know KrisHQ, and we’ve both played high tier tournament PvP from the very beginning of the game.

no ppl dont create builds only for that. they take that in account by creating a build. nothing more has arc trying to say.

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

I’ve played this game since some of the first closed betas, mostly focusing on pvp. I have never seen anyone go for builds that could actually fulfill these roles. People just go with whatever is the easiest with highest reward.
I’m not saying that you can’t create a build to fulfill these roles, I’m simply saying that it’s definitely not needed. There is no reason to create these roles, since one or two more basic and general roles/builds can accomplish everything that is needed in the current meta.

I agree that at the practical use level, it’s not going to be that useful. In fact, we would get similar conclusions what we experience day to day if we listed what roles certain meta builds play at the moment and how effectively they play it. But conceptually this can be very supplemental and it’d help categorize and possible standardized the way we approach builds and team comps in the future—at least with this game type. It’s a good initiative nonetheless and I don’t think the point was to theorycraft but data mine what already exists and create something useful for players.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

I’ve played this game since some of the first closed betas, mostly focusing on pvp. I have never seen anyone go for builds that could actually fulfill these roles. People just go with whatever is the easiest with highest reward.
I’m not saying that you can’t create a build to fulfill these roles, I’m simply saying that it’s definitely not needed. There is no reason to create these roles, since one or two more basic and general roles/builds can accomplish everything that is needed in the current meta.

I agree that at the practical use level, it’s not going to be that useful. In fact, we would get similar conclusions what we experience day to day if we listed what roles certain meta builds play at the moment and how effectively they play it. But conceptually this can be very supplemental and it’d help categorize and possible standardized the way we approach builds and team comps in the future—at least with this game type. It’s a good initiative nonetheless and I don’t think the point was to theorycraft but data mine what already exists and create something useful for players.

Helping newer players with guides (like Sensotix) and creating descriptions of roles is indeed a great thought, but the game is simply not in a state where that is really necessary. I’ve always wanted to try making guides and/or VoD-commentating, but the game never reached a competitive state, where I believed that to be a demand. In fact, all these roles might even lead to people theorycrafting builds to fulfill these roles, which we all know is not going to help them (worst case scenario).
Believe me, I would wish the game had a depth where all these roles were needed. The fact that a specific player on the team is focusing on interrupting stomps is music to my ears.
I’m just trying to be realistic. Let’s not make GW2 something it’s not. That might have been the cause of the game we’re seeing today, focusing too much on E-Sports rather than basic enjoyable gameplay.
And just for good manners – I did not read your post as condescending at all, but that might have been because I didn’t really get the point of the “complicated” argument. In other words, I didn’t assume you were talking about my ability to read the game.

The meta builds generally accomplish a bunch of these roles at the same time. Obviously the top players don’t sit there and theorycraft, but they naturally gravitate toward these types of builds because they bring so much to the table.

Any objective analysis of the game is going to be more beneficial than just taking some dude’s word for it.

jmatb.6307:

The meta builds generally accomplish a bunch of these roles at the same time. Obviously the top players don’t sit there and theorycraft, but they naturally gravitate toward these types of builds because they bring so much to the table.

Any objective analysis of the game is going to be more beneficial than just taking some dude’s word for it.

I think the OP knows this – he didn’t mean that people go and make builds that specialise in fulfilling only ONE of those roles (well, some might). He wasn’t saying “these are all the knids of builds we have” he was saying “these are all the different jobs you can do in a match.” He did specify that he knows that a lot of builds can fulfil more than one of those role.s

Great topic. Like others have said, too many redundant roles.
Also I was wondering if you could do like a summary on the type of roles each profession falls under and their effectiveness, when compared to other classes. I think that might help the devs more while at the same time help players even more.

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

I’ve played this game since some of the first closed betas, mostly focusing on pvp. I have never seen anyone go for builds that could actually fulfill these roles. People just go with whatever is the easiest with highest reward.
I’m not saying that you can’t create a build to fulfill these roles, I’m simply saying that it’s definitely not needed. There is no reason to create these roles, since one or two more basic and general roles/builds can accomplish everything that is needed in the current meta.

I agree that at the practical use level, it’s not going to be that useful. In fact, we would get similar conclusions what we experience day to day if we listed what roles certain meta builds play at the moment and how effectively they play it. But conceptually this can be very supplemental and it’d help categorize and possible standardized the way we approach builds and team comps in the future—at least with this game type. It’s a good initiative nonetheless and I don’t think the point was to theorycraft but data mine what already exists and create something useful for players.

Helping newer players with guides (like Sensotix) and creating descriptions of roles is indeed a great thought, but the game is simply not in a state where that is really necessary. I’ve always wanted to try making guides and/or VoD-commentating, but the game never reached a competitive state, where I believed that to be a demand. In fact, all these roles might even lead to people theorycrafting builds to fulfill these roles, which we all know is not going to help them (worst case scenario).
Believe me, I would wish the game had a depth where all these roles were needed. The fact that a specific player on the team is focusing on interrupting stomps is music to my ears.
I’m just trying to be realistic. Let’s not make GW2 something it’s not. That might have been the cause of the game we’re seeing today, focusing too much on E-Sports rather than basic enjoyable gameplay.
And just for good manners – I did not read your post as condescending at all, but that might have been because I didn’t really get the point of the “complicated” argument. In other words, I didn’t assume you were talking about my ability to read the game.

It feels like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing or are just bitter or come across as extremely bitter.

This topic doesn’t take away anything in a way it, it tries to flesh out the possible roles that exist in the game. It might also give developers some ideas on where to take the meta. The game doesn’t always have to be in this current state, it can change and if you don’t think it can change, it begs the question: why are you still here?

In any case, this topic is awesome and it doesn’t hurt anybody.

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

KrisHQ.4719:

The idea is good, but this is seriously reading too much into GW2.
Sorry. But no such thing as a “Body Cleaver”, “Peeler” and “Stomp Preventer”.
Atm there are a few “roles”. Condition Bunker, Bunker and Glasscannon.
Bunker and Glasscannon are self-explanatory and the Condition Bunker can fulfill pretty much everything else.

I don’t think it’s reading too much into GW2. It’s actually pretty complicated if you go into details about what you can do. It’s just way too fast paced where you’ll miss those details and it almost seems as if it doesn’t matter, but it can matter.

I’ve played this game since some of the first closed betas, mostly focusing on pvp. I have never seen anyone go for builds that could actually fulfill these roles. People just go with whatever is the easiest with highest reward.
I’m not saying that you can’t create a build to fulfill these roles, I’m simply saying that it’s definitely not needed. There is no reason to create these roles, since one or two more basic and general roles/builds can accomplish everything that is needed in the current meta.

I agree that at the practical use level, it’s not going to be that useful. In fact, we would get similar conclusions what we experience day to day if we listed what roles certain meta builds play at the moment and how effectively they play it. But conceptually this can be very supplemental and it’d help categorize and possible standardized the way we approach builds and team comps in the future—at least with this game type. It’s a good initiative nonetheless and I don’t think the point was to theorycraft but data mine what already exists and create something useful for players.

Helping newer players with guides (like Sensotix) and creating descriptions of roles is indeed a great thought, but the game is simply not in a state where that is really necessary. I’ve always wanted to try making guides and/or VoD-commentating, but the game never reached a competitive state, where I believed that to be a demand. In fact, all these roles might even lead to people theorycrafting builds to fulfill these roles, which we all know is not going to help them (worst case scenario).
Believe me, I would wish the game had a depth where all these roles were needed. The fact that a specific player on the team is focusing on interrupting stomps is music to my ears.
I’m just trying to be realistic. Let’s not make GW2 something it’s not. That might have been the cause of the game we’re seeing today, focusing too much on E-Sports rather than basic enjoyable gameplay.
And just for good manners – I did not read your post as condescending at all, but that might have been because I didn’t really get the point of the “complicated” argument. In other words, I didn’t assume you were talking about my ability to read the game.

Haha np. I understand where you are coming from but I guess it’s hard to find the fine line between helping others and trying to enjoy the game as much as possible but at the same time not making it seem that everything is okay—because it isn’t. Honestly I’m just supporting my buddy Ice (or Hrarr is what I call him) with his interest in doing this R&D work. xD

Yes, the game is more complicated than just building a character/team that satisifies X number of roles. There’s other aspects such as 1v1 strength, survivability, sustain, general role efficacy, and role diversity (one character being able to fulfill multiple roles) that all play into how effective a team is.

However, I think all roles listed here are absolutely worth considering when making a team. I think it’s also especially useful for new players in understanding why meta builds are meta.

Take Adian’s necro example, he’s completely right that a staff necro is decimating to downed players. That’s part of the point though. The necro is an amazing teamfight asset because it’s got huge spammable cleave and multiple fears at range, it’s brutal for body cleave and rez/stomp denial. If you want to remove your necro from the team you better have a class that can do similar (good luck).

silvermember.8941:

It feels like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing or are just bitter or come across as extremely bitter.

This topic doesn’t take away anything in a way it, it tries to flesh out the possible roles that exist in the game. It might also give developers some ideas on where to take the meta. The game doesn’t always have to be in this current state, it can change and if you don’t think it can change, it begs the question: why are you still here?

In any case, this topic is awesome and it doesn’t hurt anybody.

I’m not arguing for the sake of arguing. I’m arguing for the sake of discussion.
Two very different things.
The topic does not really try to flesh out the possible roles, but rather complicates the game to a state it’s simply not in. If this topic was really about helping, the best thing would be to post the current meta-builds and give a decription of what points each role should go for, and what each build’s strengths and weaknesses.
Sure I could just ignore the thread, but then it shouldn’t have been posted on a discussion-forum. And to assume I’m bitter? Why would I be bitter? The thread is not destructive in any way, neither is my reply.
I simply wrote it to get people thinking instead of just accepting, I want people to be critical. Is he (He=Me) right? Why, why not? I (obviously) believe I am.
Lastly, I mainly check the forums because it’s interesting to see how the games continues to develop either for the good or the bad, a general interest in game-development I suppose, not because I still have “faith” in the game. I know that GW2 won’t ever become what I had hoped one year ago, so that’s not why I’m sticking around.

KrisHQ.4719:

silvermember.8941:

It feels like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing or are just bitter or come across as extremely bitter.

This topic doesn’t take away anything in a way it, it tries to flesh out the possible roles that exist in the game. It might also give developers some ideas on where to take the meta. The game doesn’t always have to be in this current state, it can change and if you don’t think it can change, it begs the question: why are you still here?

In any case, this topic is awesome and it doesn’t hurt anybody.

I’m not arguing for the sake of arguing. I’m arguing for the sake of discussion.
Two very different things.
The topic does not really try to flesh out the possible roles, but rather complicates the game to a state it’s simply not in. If this topic was really about helping, the best thing would be to post the current meta-builds and give a decription of what points each role should go for, and what each build’s strengths and weaknesses.
Sure I could just ignore the thread, but then it shouldn’t have been posted on a discussion-forum. And to assume I’m bitter? Why would I be bitter? The thread is not destructive in any way, neither is my reply.
I simply wrote it to get people thinking instead of just accepting, I want people to be critical. Is he (He=Me) right? Why, why not? I (obviously) believe I am.
Lastly, I mainly check the forums because it’s interesting to see how the games continues to develop either for the good or the bad, a general interest in game-development I suppose, not because I still have “faith” in the game. I know that GW2 won’t ever become what I had hoped one year ago, so that’s not why I’m sticking around.

Everything you just said helped prove my point.

OP cared enough to make a topic about roles, if you don’t agree you can make your own or contradict his points with even better points. He saw something in the game that based on his experience and made a post trying to explain his theory. The OP isn’t taking away anymore than a person posting builds, if you are confident in your role or ability you don’t need this topic.

In any case, I am sorry your faith in the game did not pay off, but that has nothing to do with anything. Sometimes things don’t turn out as we hope, but coming back and criticizing the people that still play and care enough to make a topic, while offering nothing is just petty. If you are not really sticking around for what value does sticking around the forum does to you? does it make you feel better? what does it do.

silvermember.8941:

KrisHQ.4719:

silvermember.8941:

It feels like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing or are just bitter or come across as extremely bitter.

This topic doesn’t take away anything in a way it, it tries to flesh out the possible roles that exist in the game. It might also give developers some ideas on where to take the meta. The game doesn’t always have to be in this current state, it can change and if you don’t think it can change, it begs the question: why are you still here?

In any case, this topic is awesome and it doesn’t hurt anybody.

I’m not arguing for the sake of arguing. I’m arguing for the sake of discussion.
Two very different things.
The topic does not really try to flesh out the possible roles, but rather complicates the game to a state it’s simply not in. If this topic was really about helping, the best thing would be to post the current meta-builds and give a decription of what points each role should go for, and what each build’s strengths and weaknesses.
Sure I could just ignore the thread, but then it shouldn’t have been posted on a discussion-forum. And to assume I’m bitter? Why would I be bitter? The thread is not destructive in any way, neither is my reply.
I simply wrote it to get people thinking instead of just accepting, I want people to be critical. Is he (He=Me) right? Why, why not? I (obviously) believe I am.
Lastly, I mainly check the forums because it’s interesting to see how the games continues to develop either for the good or the bad, a general interest in game-development I suppose, not because I still have “faith” in the game. I know that GW2 won’t ever become what I had hoped one year ago, so that’s not why I’m sticking around.

Everything you just said helped prove my point.

OP cared enough to make a topic about roles, if you don’t agree you can make your own or contradict his points with even better points. He saw something in the game that based on his experience and made a post trying to explain his theory. The OP isn’t taking away anymore than a person posting builds, if you are confident in your role or ability you don’t need this topic.

In any case, I am sorry your faith in the game did not pay off, but that has nothing to do with anything. Sometimes things don’t turn out as we hope, but coming back and criticizing the people that still play and care enough to make a topic, while offering nothing is just petty. If you are not really sticking around for what value does sticking around the forum does to you? does it make you feel better? what does it do.

Obviously you didn’t really read my post, or you’re just reading your opinion into it.
I’m not criticizing, and I thoroughly explained why in my post.
I also explained why I’m sticking around, you don’t have to ask me twice. But just be avoid another identical question, I will answer it again:
It does not make me feel better. I’m just interested in how the developers handle the outcome of the game going forward. I’m simply interested in the development process, especially after having disappointed a lot of people. If that does not answer your question, I can’t help you.

This thread seems to have received a lot of attention while I was sleeping, so I am going to try to address several people’s posts/criticisms (criticism is certainly welcome) in one go.

manveruppd.7601:

I think the OP knows this – he didn’t mean that people go and make builds that specialise in fulfilling only ONE of those roles (well, some might). He wasn’t saying “these are all the knids of builds we have” he was saying “these are all the different jobs you can do in a match.” He did specify that he knows that a lot of builds can fulfil more than one of those role.s

I feel as though some people reading this thread have missed what manveruppd (and others) have stated. This thread was never about analysing FOTM/Meta builds, as they are constantly changing with balance patches (however long it may be between them). This thread IS about providing a deeper perspective on the different roles that exist inside of tPvP in its current form (as manveruppd said in another post, some roles would be different within different game modes).

It is easy to say that there are only 3-4 roles, but that doesn’t do this game justice. There are many things to consider during any match, and my hope was to highlight that through this thread. There are many smaller roles that I felt deserved to be highlighted. For example, having someone capable of guaranteeing every downed player is stomped goes a huge way toward winning a match. I developed this list based on what I understand from my experience in tPvP as well as the feedback I have received from others. Everything I listed has already existed (I didn’t stumble upon some new game-changing concept), but I felt much of it went unnoticed or unappreciated.

I want to make it very clear that the roles I have defined should not be focused on individually when creating a build. They should act as a guide to help players in identifying key areas of gameplay, from which they will choose several roles to incorporate into their build depending upon the needs of the player/team and the chosen profession.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback, criticism and support so far.

Well. The problem with the current state of the game, is that most builds are without weaknesses (general condition problem). This means that pretty much all of the current meta builds excel at all the roles described, at least a lot of them. The biggest difference is mobility.

KrisHQ.4719:

Well. The problem with the current state of the game, is that most builds are without weaknesses (general condition problem). This means that pretty much all of the current meta builds excel at all the roles described, at least a lot of them. The biggest difference is mobility.

Can’t agree more. Every class can heal, every class can support, every class can DPS, every class can tank and every class can do direct damage and conditions. These are the things normally distributed on different classes based on the holy trinity. Guild Wars is lacking this, therefore all classes are kinda the same and should in theory be viable. There’s just the problem that Anet completely messed up the balancing with too short CDs, overpowered traits, too high amount of damage or heal and other things. They can’t even get this right. But well that’s a different topic…

Overall I still think that some classes are better at specific things than others and like the OP said it isn’t even about who is better. It’s about what a class can do and HOW it can do these things. This helps newbies learning to PvP in general.

KrisHQ.4719:

Well. The problem with the current state of the game, is that most builds are without weaknesses (general condition problem). This means that pretty much all of the current meta builds excel at all the roles described, at least a lot of them. The biggest difference is mobility.

Well that’s why those builds are in the meta. But if you were playing something other than conquest they wouldn’t be. How many spirit rangers do you see in wvw for instance?

That’s why in my earlier post I said that the problem with pvp isn’t balance but a dearth of different game modes. It’s all conquest, all the time. Tournament in GW1 (Tombs/Heroes’ Ascent) had something like 8 different maps you had to go through, each of them a slightly different game mode, from CTF to TDM to king of the hill etc. While there were plenty of gimmicky team builds that aimed to exploit the mechanics of one or more of those maps, they rarely made it all the way to the top. How many IWAY teams did you see in HoH? I guarantee that if the tournament map rotation included a TDM or a CTF mode we’d see a lot fewer teams with 2 bunkers designed to just knock people off points!

manveruppd.7601:

KrisHQ.4719:

Well. The problem with the current state of the game, is that most builds are without weaknesses (general condition problem). This means that pretty much all of the current meta builds excel at all the roles described, at least a lot of them. The biggest difference is mobility.

Well that’s why those builds are in the meta. But if you were playing something other than conquest they wouldn’t be. How many spirit rangers do you see in wvw for instance?

That’s why in my earlier post I said that the problem with pvp isn’t balance but a dearth of different game modes. It’s all conquest, all the time. Tournament in GW1 (Tombs/Heroes’ Ascent) had something like 8 different maps you had to go through, each of them a slightly different game mode, from CTF to TDM to king of the hill etc. While there were plenty of gimmicky team builds that aimed to exploit the mechanics of one or more of those maps, they rarely made it all the way to the top. How many IWAY teams did you see in HoH? I guarantee that if the tournament map rotation included a TDM or a CTF mode we’d see a lot fewer teams with 2 bunkers designed to just knock people off points!

Well. Different game modes still wouldn’t change the gameplay. The game wouldn’t be a success even with 10 different gamemodes, because the way skills and combat work atm. there won’t be a competitive scene. That is slight off-topic so I’ll just leave it there.
But yes, other “roles” would probably be needed. The problem is, that I’d bet the same meta-builds would also fulfill those.

Well, I think they are trying to push “supports” into the meta now, but damage/mobility is still king. Unless you are a guardian/warrior, support is very subpar because this game as a serious lack of healing and sustain, which means that eventually you will get wore down while doing insignificant damage to the enemy and providing little to your team in terms of [non-existent] heals or boons, which atm most class are self-sufficient about that

P-p-p-p- power rangers?