Guild Wars 2

Hey guys
This runes need a nerf, they just do. Every single power spec uses them nowadays. All I see wherever I go vs a power based build (semi-bunker, roamers) is ppl with parrots around them. ENOUGH WITH THE OP NPC’S OR AI OR WHATEVER IN SPVP.
I use this runes too, what else can i do, if I don’t use them I most likely lose the fight (I’ve tested this).
I play more sPvP than WvW because I can’t handle zergs well but sPvP is becoming a zergs vs zerg mode with all this kitten around my character

Here’s a thought – make all NPC summon runes/sigils pve only.

Only npcs/ai remaining in pvp are profession based summons (pets/clones/minions/etc).

Five options I can think of to balance these runes (or some combination of 2-5):
1) Remove them from PvP
2) Rework attack to reduce amount of evade frames
3) Lower attack damage
4) Lower HP
5) Increase CD

As it is right now it has basically the same HP as Rock dog, deals slightly higher damage, and has a pretty long duration evade with each attack, that happens about every 2-3 seconds, all on a lower CD than the dog. Its just a bit overwhelming as a proc right now.

Would prefer them to be outright removed rather then nerfed, but a nerf is better then nothing.

CAW! Caw! Polly want a cracker!

Curunen.8729:

Here’s a thought – make all NPC summon runes/sigils pve only.

Only npcs/ai remaining in pvp are profession based summons (pets/clones/minions/etc).

I would not be opposed to this, though if it is nerfed should be s spvp thing only. Those type of runes ain’t so great in wvw/pve.

This AI crap is taking over sPvP and I don’t like it. Heck who does? I tried Turret Engi, and kitten I don’t get kitten of Engi and I still do great with that build. I say end this godkitten cheese AI builds at once.

I see guild mates that do PvP only with Necro MM and nothing else, you know why, because it wins most of the time (at least they lost vs me with my Medi Guard) and they don’t know kitten about Necro (most of them don’t since they don’t play it other than sPvP)

Lol. I was just going to make a post about this.

I’d also like to add that the AI from runes can do more dmg than the player that summoned it sometimes… like wut? O.o;

Krittz.6013:

Lol. I was just going to make a post about this.

I’d also like to add that the AI from runes can do more dmg than the player that summoned it sometimes… like wut? O.o;

Yes that can happen too. I pretty sure that happens with my turret engi, I pretty kitten sure that my rifle doesn’t hit for 1k

Really want to see something changed. Had a recent death breakdown with claw (bird) at top contributor at over 6k damage. After seeing that I immediately adopted using them after not using them for months as a matter of pride.

Bird does decent damage but the biggest gains are defensive. Birds eat projectiles, distract other ai, especially mesmer roll clones which ruins shatters. Birds even do subtle things like eat warrior bursts when I roll, using up enemy adrenaline and intelligence sigil charges. Necro marks, ranger traps, so many things it just triggers or wastes.

Rock dog did all of this too but bird being an effective DOT means you compete with or match offensive runes while keeping great defensive disruption.

Lopez.7369:

It’s hilarious how overpowered the bird is. I fight so many people who do less damage than their bird, just because they have no idea what they’re doing but still get attacked.

this … I got kitten d by 3 kittening birds at the same time today
And the best thing was that their owners could completely ignore me whilst those freaking birds did their job…

I love the sound of the dying parrot – something very satisfying about hearing that feathery fiend squawk out its final death cry.

(Sounds horrible I know – I like birds irl, honest!)

I like the bird, “God why” * you ask in horror * well because it has a butt ton of hp, stack 25 stacks of bleed and 15 stacks of torrent, poison, burn and some confusion and let your necro bro epidemic that kitten.

Good night sweet prince XD

If you ask for nerfs on this type of Runes that summons a pet, any nerf to these runes will render them absolutely useless and unfavorable to players immediately after the patch. That will be extremely detrimental to build diversity and promoting variation in itemization and gearing.

Instead of asking for nerfs, we can maybe suggest that these pet summoning runes be unavailable to choose in sPvP. However, this will also have a negative impact in build diversity, itemization and gearing in sPvP setting. I believe the developers have said in an interview previously that they want to balance all things – including skills, builds, itemization, and gearing around all aspects of the game.

This means that they don’t want to have an implementation of changes for one aspect of the game – ex. PvE open world, then another for WvW and sPvP. Developers always want to make changes/updates/improvements with all aspects of the game taken into account, and not focus on just a single aspect of the game.

I would disagree with such “nerf” to these runes. These runes may present an interesting spec in sPvP, but they’re not really the best choice outside of sPvP. There are other favorable runes in other aspects of the game, and this is where diversity in itemization comes in. I believe players should have the freedom of choice for each different rune set based on certain aspect of the game. There is no best rune for everything, and the game developers are always looking to promote diversity in game. Taking a viable option and choice away will only hurt this approach.

There is enough profession based ai floating around and cluttering up the screen – I believe that any additional ai, whether from runes or sigils or whatever, has no place whatsoever in a pvp environment.

Build diversity is one thing – having unnecessary npcs in a pvp mode is not the same issue.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/pvp-Bird-rune-op-engieneers-op/first#post4181414

For sword dagger thief strength runes are better, but bird rune is very strong for warriors and engies is what i can say.

Players just can’t stop complaining and whining. Ever since the game release (about 2 years ago) they always and always complain. Because of those complains the game gets modified, then other people complain again and the game gets modified again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

We got to the point where everyone wants 1v1 instead of teamwork (hence new map), conditions do not matter that much, teamwork combos are useful only in World Versus World, and everyone look for automated builds with multiple pets and turrets.

Seriously, stop… just stop and think this is a tactical teamwork game created for entertainment, not to consume it’s content fast by pressing 123 and move on to other content. If you don’t enjoy this game, then just leave it, just find some other form of entertainment, because time is one of the most important things in everyone’s life.

Just think for a moment: waiting for something to happen here or waiting for your wishes to be implemented in the game will not make you happier, because of the time consumed so far.

Everything is allowed, but not everything is useful to me, or you.

Acrisor.8097:

Players just can’t stop complaining and whining. Ever since the game release (about 2 years ago) they always and always complain. Because of those complains the game gets modified, then other people complain again and the game gets modified again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

We got to the point where everyone wants 1v1 instead of teamwork (hence new map), conditions do not matter that much, teamwork combos are useful only in World Versus World, and everyone look for automated builds with multiple pets and turrets.

Seriously, stop… just stop and think this is a tactical teamwork game created for entertainment, not to consume it’s content fast by pressing 123 and move on to other content. If you don’t enjoy this game, then just leave it, just find some other form of entertainment, because time is one of the most important things in everyone’s life.

Just think for a moment: waiting for something to happen here or waiting for your wishes to be implemented in the game will not make you happier, because of the time consumed so far.

Everything is allowed, but not everything is useful to me, or you.

What has all that got to do with pirate runes? Don’t make such a blanket generalisation about complaints.

I stand by my statement that the only player summoned ai in a pvp mode should be profession based.

The npc gameplay is awful in general. Atleast make it so that the bird’s 60s cooldown begins once it is destroyed.

pvp in this game just turned into a bit player flavored pve mode where 90% of the time we are battling pets and not their owners (sup turret engis)…

pokemon wars 2 /slowclap

idk why devs keep promoting passive gameplay by buffing AI based builds and nerfing direct dmg…

PvP is Player vs Player and not Player vs Pet but seeing the changes that were done for the past year it doesn’t seem like devs are interested in promoting player skill in player vs player enviroment

AI really needs to be changed. Suggestions:

- Pet runes: need to go from pvp, end of story
- Pet dmg: pets shouldn’t outdmg the pet owner; if it is the case right now, pets dmg needs to be transfered to owner and pet should be more of support tool…
iIt will also fix the issue with some classes building full tank and still doing silly dmg via pets because of messed up scaling (yo rangers, engis). If this change would be implemented, those classes would actually have to build for dmg to do it

- Turrets: if engi is too far from his turrets (the range should be relative short), turrets get automatically destroyed. Also duration on crate reaaaaalllllyyyyyy needs to be lowered. Imagine if thieves guild would call 6 thieves spamming hard CC and high dmg and staying there 1 min. No ty.

The supposed weakness is that if engi leaves turrets he is useless, however recently it turned into: place turrets around the point, go roam around other points spamming aoe while enemies would have to suicide vs your turrets trying to get the point you sieged up.

More advanced tactic: place bunker guard on point, place turrets around the point so they can’t be aoed, point will be never taken unless you zerg it with 5 man.

This 2 are the biggest issues with ANY AI in generall:
- AI autotracking: AI will track you no matter where you go, it really removes any kind of smart positioning or awarness, this really needs to change – if the owner lost target, pet should stop following the target; i am sure this will be actually helpfull to manage AI for people who would love more controll over their pets and not watch their wolf run somewhere across the map

I know some people would say, but but but it will be buff to stealth classes. Well, right now AI auto trackling is rendering stealth useless and if you didn’t notice stealth is usually survival mechanics for those classes, AI pretty much deny survival for those classes; that would be same as for example each warrior strike would remove every single boon from guardian and hit through invul, pretty silly if you ask me.

- CC and pets: even while owner is being CCd, downed etc, pets keep attacking enemy players rendering any form of CC hardly effective against AI builds and downed form is a death sentence – in pvp if owner got CC/downed, his pet should stop attacking target but maybe grant some kind of utility for owner for the duration of the CC, for example small heal, regen, stun break on long CD, protection etc.

P.S. this suggestions are strictly for pvp, weither or not they should be applied in other areas of the game is different story

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

You seem to have no clue about meta builds. Most team q builds work around might stacking/air fire procs, why don´t you start nerfing this first or atleast wait until after the next big tournament so we don´t have to learn a whole new class and adjust the lineup and strategy?

Pirate was the only way for less op builds to get near to those classes who can stack might / proc air sigil.

Ranger also relied on parrot to proc burn from spirit, this build is dead now too, thank you.

Even if AI is not what people want to see it keeps things balanced. Yet the main goal should be to allow viable builds that don´t rely on runes/sigils whihch needs major nerf to all sigils.

Blackjack.5621:

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

You seem to have no clue about meta builds. Most team q builds work around might stacking/air fire procs, why don´t you start nerfing this first or atleast wait until after the next big tournament so we don´t have to learn a whole new class and adjust the lineup and strategy?

Pirate was the only way for less op builds to get near to those classes who can stack might / proc air sigil.

Team: Cheese Mode

Makes sense

Thank you for nerfing the bird.

Amen to the bird nerf!

Can’t wait to see what the next broken pvp game mechanic abuse is going to be!

Does this mean that bird is no longer the word? Kappa

Thank you, this is appreciated.

Quick responses to both runes of strength and pirate. Very nice.

I still think bird will still be a decent choice in this meta. It still evades attacks so it will be better than the other summons. The rune itself still buffs might which goes well with the celestial builds that used it. It must won’t be over the top now.

Blackjack.5621:

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

Celestial staff doesnt fill the role of that clerics staff exactly.. besides cant you always pick up the glyph of elem pets? just a thought! i dont recommend it or anything but if the idea is having more reliable outside source of damage then isnt this a logical next step before abandoning the build completely ?

Avead.5760:

Blackjack.5621:

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

Celestial staff doesnt fill the role of that clerics staff exactly.. besides cant you always pick up the glyph of elem pets? just a thought! i dont recommend it or anything but if the idea is having more reliable outside source of damage then isnt this a logical next step before abandoning the build completely ?

Cleric staff ele cant survive 1v1 because enemies go full ham on you while overextending like mad since they don´t need to go defensive. Only way to make it 1st tier again would be a buff to air 2 and fix air 3 and add some single target damage to autoattacks to deal counterpressure otherwise it´s dead if you want to be competitive.

tried some 25 might stack build with similar surviveability but it just doesnt do damage, the autoattacks dont hit any moving target that is more than 6-7 meters away.

Josh Davis.6015:

The release notes haven’t been updated yet, but the health of the Tropical Parrot was reduced by 50% in today’s release to bring it in line with other summons such as the rock dog.

We’ll keep an eye on it for now and reevaluate its strength it in the future if need be.

Thanks for the update. When will the release notes be updated and available for review?

Cynz.9437:

pvp in this game just turned into a bit player flavored pve mode where 90% of the time we are battling pets and not their owners (sup turret engis)…

pokemon wars 2 /slowclap

idk why devs keep promoting passive gameplay by buffing AI based builds and nerfing direct dmg…

PvP is Player vs Player and not Player vs Pet but seeing the changes that were done for the past year it doesn’t seem like devs are interested in promoting player skill in player vs player enviroment

AI really needs to be changed. Suggestions:

- Pet runes: need to go from pvp, end of story
- Pet dmg: pets shouldn’t outdmg the pet owner; if it is the case right now, pets dmg needs to be transfered to owner and pet should be more of support tool…
iIt will also fix the issue with some classes building full tank and still doing silly dmg via pets because of messed up scaling (yo rangers, engis). If this change would be implemented, those classes would actually have to build for dmg to do it

- Turrets: if engi is too far from his turrets (the range should be relative short), turrets get automatically destroyed. Also duration on crate reaaaaalllllyyyyyy needs to be lowered. Imagine if thieves guild would call 6 thieves spamming hard CC and high dmg and staying there 1 min. No ty.

The supposed weakness is that if engi leaves turrets he is useless, however recently it turned into: place turrets around the point, go roam around other points spamming aoe while enemies would have to suicide vs your turrets trying to get the point you sieged up.

More advanced tactic: place bunker guard on point, place turrets around the point so they can’t be aoed, point will be never taken unless you zerg it with 5 man.

This 2 are the biggest issues with ANY AI in generall:
- AI autotracking: AI will track you no matter where you go, it really removes any kind of smart positioning or awarness, this really needs to change – if the owner lost target, pet should stop following the target; i am sure this will be actually helpfull to manage AI for people who would love more controll over their pets and not watch their wolf run somewhere across the map

I know some people would say, but but but it will be buff to stealth classes. Well, right now AI auto trackling is rendering stealth useless and if you didn’t notice stealth is usually survival mechanics for those classes, AI pretty much deny survival for those classes; that would be same as for example each warrior strike would remove every single boon from guardian and hit through invul, pretty silly if you ask me.

- CC and pets: even while owner is being CCd, downed etc, pets keep attacking enemy players rendering any form of CC hardly effective against AI builds and downed form is a death sentence – in pvp if owner got CC/downed, his pet should stop attacking target but maybe grant some kind of utility for owner for the duration of the CC, for example small heal, regen, stun break on long CD, protection etc.

P.S. this suggestions are strictly for pvp, weither or not they should be applied in other areas of the game is different story

Agreed to a degree on most points.
Engineer elite turrets duration reduced.
Mesmer phantasms stick to a fairly close proximity to the mesmer.
Ranger pet leash range is still overly large. Also a range on swapping them needs to be introduced. If you sic a pet onto me and forget about it and out of frustration I decided I’m killing it. You shouldn’t be able to swap out at over 60% of the map away when you remember it and have it return instantly to your side. A pet is for life, not just for christmas. Take care of it or lose it.

Blackjack.5621:

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

You seem to have no clue about meta builds. Most team q builds work around might stacking/air fire procs, why don´t you start nerfing this first or atleast wait until after the next big tournament so we don´t have to learn a whole new class and adjust the lineup and strategy?

Pirate was the only way for less op builds to get near to those classes who can stack might / proc air sigil.

Ranger also relied on parrot to proc burn from spirit, this build is dead now too, thank you.

Even if AI is not what people want to see it keeps things balanced. Yet the main goal should be to allow viable builds that don´t rely on runes/sigils whihch needs major nerf to all sigils.

If an ai pet is so integral to your survival then it must be op, otherwise your saying 1 ai pet carryies you and you cant survive with out it? either way well done anet for nerfing more ai

Jomo kenyatta.7351:

Blackjack.5621:

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

You seem to have no clue about meta builds. Most team q builds work around might stacking/air fire procs, why don´t you start nerfing this first or atleast wait until after the next big tournament so we don´t have to learn a whole new class and adjust the lineup and strategy?

Pirate was the only way for less op builds to get near to those classes who can stack might / proc air sigil.

Ranger also relied on parrot to proc burn from spirit, this build is dead now too, thank you.

Balance means something is EQUALLY strong. It doesn´t mean that there aren´t op synergies.

Even if AI is not what people want to see it keeps things balanced. Yet the main goal should be to allow viable builds that don´t rely on runes/sigils whihch needs major nerf to all sigils.

If an ai pet is so integral to your survival then it must be op, otherwise your saying 1 ai pet carryies you and you cant survive with out it? either way well done anet for nerfing more ai

ofc it was op, but it was the only way for many builds to deal with other op kitten like 25 might and air/fire

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Ranger pet leash range is still overly large. Also a range on swapping them needs to be introduced. If you sic a pet onto me and forget about it and out of frustration I decided I’m killing it. You shouldn’t be able to swap out at over 60% of the map away when you remember it and have it return instantly to your side. A pet is for life, not just for christmas. Take care of it or lose it.

Lolz!

Thank you.
Finally the game is 100% balanced, and people will stop that constant complain about PvP being broken because of Strength and Pirate Runes.
Thank you very much for all the nerf done so far. This is a proof that developers always listened and always will listen to players.

THANK YOU!!!

Don’t listen to the whiners, that Parrot was OP, and needed a nerf.

Although, I think nerfing the damage output would have been a better idea….
BUT still, thank you <3

Eurantien.4632:

Quick responses to both runes of strength and pirate. Very nice.

There was absolutely nothing quick about this.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Eurantien.4632:

Quick responses to both runes of strength and pirate. Very nice.

There was absolutely nothing quick about this.

It’s still 2014.

Blackjack.5621:

Thanks for removing more builds from the meta like ranger and staff ele. For staff ele it was the only way to apply counterpressure and survive, the bird could survive due to ele heal and protection and hit the target when i cc people. If you think chubz ele build without vigor/evasive arcana procs works you just go the na noob syndrom, sry.

You seem to have no clue about meta builds. Most team q builds work around might stacking/air fire procs, why don´t you start nerfing this first or atleast wait until after the next big tournament so we don´t have to learn a whole new class and adjust the lineup and strategy?

Pirate was the only way for less op builds to get near to those classes who can stack might / proc air sigil.

Ranger also relied on parrot to proc burn from spirit, this build is dead now too, thank you.

Even if AI is not what people want to see it keeps things balanced. Yet the main goal should be to allow viable builds that don´t rely on runes/sigils whihch needs major nerf to all sigils.

The runes promote bad gameplay because of annyoing AI that does the job you’re supposed to do. If a rune is the only thing that makes a build or class viable than it’s the developers’ turn to fix the class itself – not by creating overpowered runes but by changing spells and traits.

Wow really ? :o good job devs.

Thank god for that fix ( I dont consider it a nerf). The bird life was totally unbalanced and too many players exploited that in so many unfair ways.

Josh Davis.6015:

The release notes haven’t been updated yet, but the health of the Tropical Parrot was reduced by 50% in today’s release to bring it in line with other summons such as the rock dog.

We’ll keep an eye on it for now and reevaluate its strength in the future if need be.

i still think it needs a “shorter leash” range. Its like old ranger pets, and the ability for a player to keep people busy at one point while being at another point is too strong.

Eurantien.4632:

Kiriakulos.1690:

Eurantien.4632:

Quick responses to both runes of strength and pirate. Very nice.

There was absolutely nothing quick about this.

It’s still 2014.

Remember the 8% shave to healing sig though? Only to have nearly every warrior even at the highest level still use it?

So this bird will die faster, it is still a bad design imo.

When will the warrior’s healing signet have an active effect that is better than its passive effect?

Honestly still don’t understand why everyone complaining about the runes. Can’t remember a single time that the bird was ever directly responsible for me dying. Nor do I remember it helping me much when I tried it once. I just think that some people spend more time complaining about things rather than learning to adapt and overcome.

Great, now they’ll melt in 0.05 secs in WvW. Hey Josh, how about nerfing the Celestial Engi’s builds? It’s bad enough they only need one Legendary to achieve max stats on bundles in WvW. Oh, and fixing the thief stealth trait bug!

DeWolfe.2174:

Great, now they’ll melt in 0.05 secs in WvW.

If the only nerf was reducing the hp by 50% than your bird was dying in 0.075 seconds?

Josh Davis.6015:

The release notes haven’t been updated yet, but the health of the Tropical Parrot was reduced by 50% in today’s release to bring it in line with other summons such as the rock dog.

We’ll keep an eye on it for now and reevaluate its strength in the future if need be.

It’s something, but the main problem was the damage it does, way higher than rock dog. Let’s see how thing go now. Thanks for the nerf

mPascoal.4258:

Josh Davis.6015:

The release notes haven’t been updated yet, but the health of the Tropical Parrot was reduced by 50% in today’s release to bring it in line with other summons such as the rock dog.

We’ll keep an eye on it for now and reevaluate its strength in the future if need be.

It’s something, but the main problem was the damage it does, way higher than rock dog. Let’s see how thing go now. Thanks for the nerf

I think its level is MUCH better now. You have to compare the power level to another 6-point when evaluating the rune. Strength runes or ogre give you +5% or +4% damage. The bird should do a similar amount of damage in most situations (more in some, less in others).

Excellent change!

Also, as to Zapdos’s concern that this removes staff-ele from the meta: I am not so sure about that. Staff ele is now worse in 1v1’s (and rightfully so), while still being a beast in teamfights. Even though I play staff ele, it shouldn’t be as good in 1v1’s as it was, while still having the mobility and beastly team-support/damage in larger fights. I still think there is a role for staff ele if built/played well, and you CAN get some decent 1v1 damage by giving up some survival utils (might stacking + glyph of ele power works pretty well b/c those auto-burns give excellent sustained pressure.