Guild Wars 2

Highlie.7641:

So I will give you a quick backstory: I smurfed the majority of season 1, then eventally stop playing before season one ended. this basically mean’s my MMR is Below average. (or should be anyway)

This is putting me in the unique position to see both sides of this debate, and let me tell you it is absolutely hilarious down here. I’ll keep this half short and just say that next season you should probably consider removing Profession stacking.

At least you are being honest. I don’t think many will fault you for smurfing last season as it was one of the only guaranteed ways to make progress in the long run. I have a feeling at least a few of the people complaining throughout the last week were also smurfing and are now reaping what they sowed.

Maybe they are above average but when you game the system to make yourself seem worse than you are you will now get paired with people perceived to be on your level. Call it karma of sorts, but in the end I am sure even those people will be able to rise up the ranks.

Well to Basket and insane maniac – I resent you calling me a liar (in essence) and negating my exp, or claiming that if I play as much as I do (I do), that surely I would be out of my stuck positing in tier 2 emerald by now, so I must suck and be where I belong.

I am now in ruby on my alt after 3 days of playing. My alt had a clean slate when I started playing, as it is a new char. I could have been a brand new player to pvp, being thrown into the system with experienced players, starting at the exact same place as them, but hardly of the same skill level. However, I do have skill. That is why I am in ruby now.

Nonetheless, on my main, where I also play pvp everyday, I am stuck in emerald tier 2 (I ranked up from tier 1 yesterday where I had been since day 1). My “rank up”/ladder exp on my alt was completely different than my “rank up”/ladder exp on my main re: moving up/down the ranks.

You people in here on winning streaks obviously haven’t experienced a losing streak and have no idea what the losing streak “unskilled” pvp players are complaining about. Until you do, you might want to think about all of the unsensitivity and harshness out there being expressed against players who have already been kicked really hard by a messed up system that penalizes losing streak players.

I might remind you, you lose as a team. Consequently, your personal mmr is adjusted according to the play motivations and skill levels of each and every one of your teammates you play with on every game. Hence, your personal mmr is based on your overall team composition each game and many other factors, including your personal skill as well as the personal skill level of all your teammates.

Also, many factors were present the 1st day of the season, that are not present today, including pro leagues blasting thru the system and trouncing solo quer’s (who were hardly on a level playing with them, since they couldn’t coordinate or be on ts with their teammates or have gimmicky synchronized op stomp builds) and artificially driving their mmr into the ground that day (before people figured out to stop playing if you lose a few and come back later – and how nice for some of you that you figured it out quickly).

Also, how do you explain that I am now, after 3 days of playing, in ruby with my alt, yet I am stuck in emerald on my main? I have breezed thru the ranks on my necro on my new alt, yet on my meta reaper main I am stuck in emerald.

Am I a bad, “unskilled” player, or a good “skilled” player? Am I a complainer, or am I a happy camper? And no, I am not a liar.

Please. Those of you slamming “unskilled players” (whatever that is, according to seas 2), you are all just riding the wave of happiness that happens when the system projects you will have a 66% win ratio if you catch a winning streak for whatever reason (especially true/likely if you do not play a lot, or you started the season either new or with an above 50% win/loss ratio, or you did not play the first day, or you have the benefit of reading forums and following the advice to quit playing for a bit if you lose).

Wait till you plateau. Then you will catch the losing streak, and then you will be a loser, and your mmr will tank and then you will be an “unskilled player with low mmr” stuck wherever you are (perhaps in diamond, lol, if you are lucky). So which will it be then – you are an “unskilled player with horrible mmr” stuck in diamond forever, or will you be a “skilled player stuck in diamond” with a horrible mmr who rode the magic win bus to get to diamond – or will you just stop playing so as to not destroy your mmr. I suspect the latter.

As to why people cannot get out of being stuck in emerald or amber or low sapphire. Have you seen the quality of players in emerald tier 1? They are drawing from ambers. These are people who do not pvp, don’t know what nodes are, think getting the highest score means they’re the best, one on one in mid map, etc.

While I may not be pro league, I am also not representative of the types of players I am typically paired with. Its almost impossible to move up if your team routinely consists of, for example, a mesmer, war, necro, ele, and ranger, and 2 are from tier 4 amber and 1 from emerald tier 1 and 1 from emerald tier 4 and none of the teamamtes are playing meta (or even good builds for that matter) and none of them are experienced or skilled and your team is pitted against a team of 3 meta reapers, a dh and a healer ele, all from sapphire tier 1 with average skill and experience or higher. Who’s gonna win?

Anyway, I think there are many people out there with significantly different experiences than the so-called “skilled” players, and I do not think they are trashtalking. They are frustrated and upset (especially, if like me, you love strong ranked competition pvp) and are good players being artificially penalized. And the proposed solution of playing unranked is not satisfactory, since it has now become the training playground, where people play out new classes/skills or 1 v 1 each other in a corner of the map. Hardly the same as ranked, and hardly fun.

As to how much I play, I play 10-12 hrs a day, and since seas 2 started its all been pvp. Sometimes I give up and go to unranked. Sometimes I’m on my alts. But its all pvp, and the majority of it is ranked pvp. In the first 4 -5 days it was exclusively ranked pvp on my main trying to get out of being stuck in tier 1 emerald – 10 hrs a day in ranked pvp on my main.

I have a scenario I would like each of you “skilled” players to try. Go create a free HoT alt char. Go into ranked pvp. Breeze thru to ruby or higher. Then go help those players you know or believe to be skilled players caught in a nasty downward mmr spiral stuck at a tier. See how easy it really is to “carry” them up and out. If you play with them, and in your opinion they suck and are where they belong, move on and pick another player. I will guess that you will see many are good players and that it is exceedingly hard, if not impossible, for you and that “unskilled” player to progress. Further, as your own mmr tanks on that alt char (if it does) watch what happens to your own personal ability to get out of a long losing streak (and remember, some of those players who are experienced and good players got “stuck” in their tiers/losing streaks on day 1 of seas 2).

You may want to think about your own talk here, as it feels pretty harsh to me. I am a player who can see your "skilled’ point of view easily, as I have had the same type of happy experience with the seas 2 system on my alt, but I also know firsthand, the very real and upsetting losing/stuck experience many players are experiencing on the flip side, and rubbing their noses further into the ground by being callous is not helping the situation at all. It’s actually pretty harmful and toxic on a human level. It also contributes to making good players who love gw want to leave forever. Better think about the consequences of what type of player base will be left (new casuals) if you are too harsh a critic about a system you haven’t experienced the negative effects of, regardless of your skill level.

In my original post I had a typo I wanted to correct so I did so, and since there were no replies to it at the time, I did so.

I want to address what you and Basket said as well.

I resent you, in essence, calling me a liar. It is a violation of forum rules. You do not have to believe me. I do not have to prove anything to you, and I certainly don’t have to show you my PvP API keys.

I have many people who are actively involved with my experience and can verify for you that what I am saying is the truth. I see one already has. I have no reason to lie. What in the world would be my reason for lying? I mean, think about it. If I suck, and I’m just complaining, I will be stuck forever anyway, so what good will come of all the complaining? I am trying to make anet and other players aware of a significant, probably unintended (at least in practice if not in conceptualization) problem with the software coding for seas 2 ranked pvp, as it is grossly penalizing solo q players, especially those who played day 1. Hopefully other players can learn to avoid some of the mistakes that I made that first day (by playing all day when pros were going thru, or not taking a break of a few days when you get a losing streak, etc.) and can avoid the frustrating experience I am having.

Also, it only takes me 10 mins or so to type my posts. That’s what graduate school will do for you. If you don’t want to read wot, or its tldr for you, move on to twitter soundbytes where most people don’t learn or hear anything. Please also feel free to block me on the game. I find block is a very useful function for players who never want to hear or learn anything from anyone.

As to Basket’s comment. I purchased 2 HoT expansions on 2 diff accts prior to seas 2. You can also get gw 2 main game for free and play ranked pvp.

Also, I don’t mind giving gw money. I love the game! That’s why I have been playing it for 14 yrs. Its my favorite game. Why do you think I am so passionate about what I believe is a serious coding mistake? I hate seas 2 of ranked pvp, and it has ruined the pvp experience for me, and since it is my fav thing to do on the game, and it appears I will be stuck in emerald solo q forever w/ no way up or out and my mmr ruined for all future seasons, yah, Im thinking of quitting.

However, there have been many very cool, understanding players who have offered support and help. I am in a state of indecision at present. I want to keep playing. I love all aspects of gw2 (though there is room for improvement in many areas of the game), but as to whether this ranked pvp change will be a dealbreaker, this jury of one is still out deciding.

Please keep your toxic, judgmental opinions about me and my personal experience to yourself, and keep your posts limited, like I did, to your own satisfaction or dissatisfaction with your own experience playing – it is very rude and unwarranted otherwise and you keep doing it, adding to the toxicity and personal player attacks.

And while you are not directly stating I am a liar, you are certainly implying and suggesting I am and challenging me to prove I am not. No thank you, I will pass on the challenge. I don’t think I will engage in any further toxicity with you. Think whatever you like of me, and try to discredit all that I say as much as you like. When losing mmr happens to you (if and/or when it does) you will then finally have a different perception and personal player toxicity and attacks will no longer seem like something you feel some personal need to do.

When and if I start losing games I will realize I have reached to spot on the ladder I was meant to be at and that is that, I won’t storm to the forums and complain that Anet is against me and the match making is bogus. The problem has been for people with either unstable or average MMR (which new players should not have) and I don’t appear to have either of those.

You have some pretty outrageous claims so it should be no surprise that people have asked you to post evidence. I did see you post in a different thread that you started a free HoT account and got to ruby in one day when no such account exists.

But hey if you aren’t just PvPing for the back piece you should just continue to play on your alt account if you are doing so well. Why play on your main account for 10 hours a day losing hundreds of matches in a row when you can get your free ride to the top on the other account like everyone else having success this season.

I have many typos in my posts cuz I type so fast (hence the 10 mins) and don’t bother to really edit (so sry to all). Sometimes I catch them, sometimes I don’t. I meant you can start a free account or a HoT account and play ranked pvp, which is what I did, since I have both. Players on the game have seen me and know me on all of my accounts, but whatever.

And I never said anywhere I got to ruby in one day. Never.

When you plateau, and you start losing, I will say to you to keep trying to improve to get to say diamond, or ruby, or leagues or whatever it is that’s your goal. If you keep playing when You personally plateau (I never had the option of “plateauing”), and you keep losing, you will then experience what I experienced that first day. Your mmr will tank, and you will start getting matched up with players who are worse and worse. At that point, not only will you have “plateaued” (and remember, I didn’t get the chance to “plateau,” as my mmr was driven down day 1 while I was still in emerald by pro leagues stomping on solo quer’s), but you will start to lose mmr. The mmr coding is then designed for you to win 33% of the time. You now have an uphill battle out of your “plateau” – you have reached your personal skill level (in your case, probably true, but in many other’s cases, not so much, since many other factors were responsible for driving down their mmrs that first day, and in some instances, still persists today), and you are coded to win only 33% of your games, and you are paired with teammates who are worse than your teammates on your last game (if mmr is truly a reflection of personal skill, which it is not). On the other hand, your opposition has none of these limitations, cuz they may all be on a winning streak. They may also be a team of four. In addition, it’s even more disastrous, if, as you’re trying to get out of your plateau (you know, “stuck”), you are solo queing, and you have no idea who your teammates are, you cannot organize/synchronize/communicate with them and you have no idea what their true respective skill levels are.

Sorry you feel I have made outrageous claims. These claims are real. Some of the pro players who have offered to help “carry me” are seeing that what I am posting is real firsthand Think whatever you want. Or put your money where your mouth is and help lower mmr players with skill out of their disastrous and exceedingly frustrating and demoralizing play experience. If you find that all the players at the bottom who are stuck really suck, what will you have lost? If you find that what I say is true on the other hand, what will you have gained? Humbleness if nothing else, I suspect.

I do pvp on my alt for the funner pvp experience. However, I have a personal attachment and pride attached to my main char, as I am sure you do. I would like to have the achievements completed (don’t care about the backpiece). Is that wrong to want the achievements? Why do you care why I play, and what my personal reasons are for wanting to get the achieves on my main as well as my alts?

And see, here’s the rub… I bet you tried to get the profession win achievements on your main account… with builds you arent that experienced on… whereas on your alt, you play your main profession.

Think about it.

I don’t care about your personal reason per se its more in general how people just join ranked PvP for the back pack. People PvPing just for the back pack are the people many of you are complaining about being matched up with every game.

Other than for guild missions I purely solo queue so I have no intention of inviting a bunch of lower rank players to a team. I solo queue because I find it is more casual and I don’t have to take it that seriously.

If I was stuck in the nightmare of a 100 game losing streak (which wouldn’t have happened to me because I have only played around 20 games this season) I would continue to just play my 3 daily matches and wait till only the bad players were left to make a serious push up the ladder.

Based on some of the teams I was matched up with in amber I can guarantee you a single good player could carry a game against them, I had two matches in amber where nobody on the opposite team even contested mid at the initial push.

Lastly if several pros have offered to carry you out of your situation why haven’t you accepted the offer, I have seen you beg in other threads for someone to do just that?

I play my meta reaper and meta rev and dh on my main. I play necro on my alts. I am less familiar w. my non meta build on my alt than the builds I play on my main. There, Yasi, I’ve thought about it. Now what? So where’s the rub? You’re wrong in your assumptions, kitten many are on this forum.

Basket – your last post says it all. You’ve only played 20 games this season.

I played all day day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4. Remember, many of these problems were unknown in the early days of the season, hence the voluminous amount of posts. No one knew what was happening. I didn’t figure out what was going on, and the extent of it, and the significance of it for long lasting effects, until several days in, after coming to the forums and reading, and comparing my own experiences with others. I thought I had gone insane and was caught in the Twilight Zone. I just kept losing and losing no matter what I did or how hard I tried. I have never experienced that in all my years playing gw. Had a friend not told me to check the forums, I might have never figured out what was wrong, and the full extent of it, and seen how my experience seemed to differ from others, yet be the same as others at the same time.

I’m in emerald, not amber. I carried teams thru amber as well. In emerald tier 1 and 2, you can get both amber and emerald teammates (time of day/mmr, etc) and you can get pitted against all emerald, emerald/saph, or all sapphire teams (same considerations). Plus, you have a built-in coding mechanism that not only pits you against a superior team intentionally, it codes it so that you only have a 33% chance of beating them!

I wish I could get some matches where ppl knew to even run to mid node.

Several pros have offered. How do you know I haven’t accepted their offers? Why do you persist in making assumptions that are continuously wrong? Ask my pro league friends their genuine opinions as to whether I suck. I don’t admit to being a pro player, or even necessarily a good player. But I know I’m a much better player than where I continue to be stuck, even with pro player assistance.

Also Basket, if u r such a cas player, then why all the passionate posts filled with generalized and specific suspicion and toxicity? I am a hardcore casual player. I solo q as well. I hope you don’t hit your plateau (and I suspect you won’t cuz u have the benefits of the warnings posted on these forums), which you certainly might do if you offer to help out lower tier players!

you can quote people without double posting you know, thats what i meant, not dont quote people :/

additionally, there is no such thing as a hardcoded win rate. its a figment of your imagination. the game has not been coded to give you an unwinnable match or 2 after a win.

the fact that the limit as the number of games you play approaches infinity is a 50% win rate is not coded anywhere in the game, it is simply a result of you climbing or falling in mmr to your proper place, and then playing a bunch of games against people of supposedly equal skill. your win rate will always deviate from 50% because your (and others) skill level changes and ratings lag behind it, making imperfect matches, especially when you dont play many games or the population of near equal players is small (which, admittedly, could be a significant issue with the system as it is, but only evan has those details).

See, the thing is… Eater of Peeps… you could easily post a screenshot of your last handful of matches on your main and your alt… and proofing with that your statements.
You being WAY too defensive here just screams fabrication.

And guys… there is no place in league where you are “supposed” to be. There is no plateauing as some like to call it. At one point, you hit 50% mmr, then the game starts throwing you together with less good players and/or against better players… 50% mmr just means you get an increase in difficulty, it does not mean you cant get beyond that.

I was stuck for three days in sapphire t3 until just now, getting pips, loosing them again, loosing them some more and now Im on a winstreak again. At one point someone sure would have said “thats where you are supposed to be”…. but its actually not, I played a few more games et voila… knot is unraveled and Im winning again.
With the current system, and the current playerbase, you will hit these snags over and over again. As soon as you hit a certain point, you either have to wait for some players to move on (or log out), so you dont get matched with/against them… or you brazen it out and have to hope to not get an unrecoverable loosing streak.

Also, there are times a day, I simply dont even try to play pvp. Its what I call ‘scrub primetime’ then… and I dont really want to risk it.

insanemaniac, I had two games today with the exact same players on my team… five solo players… Id say, that says a lot about the size of the playerpool.

@Eater of Peeps The reason I have been arguing on the forums is because the format this season promotes a system where you can progress without grinding. You are right I have only played about 20 matches but in those 20 matches I have managed to reach the last tier of emerald vs people who have claimed to play a hundred (if not hundreds) of matches are still stuck in the first few tiers.

The grinders had their way on the previous leader boards and Season 1 so seeing the forums flooded with tears the second they don’t get there way is annoying for players who finally have a chance to progress and compete without playing 10-15 matches everyday.

@Yasi You are correct in the fact that there is no plateau I was more agreeing that there will be a point where my 20 game win streak is broken and I will fall to a more realistic win rate of 50-60% but even then this season it will be easier to climb than last because of the win streak bonuses and in the long run everyone should be able to climb slowly after they find their spot on the ladder.

Also this season if you instantly queue right after finishing a match you are very likely to get the same teammates as they will be queuing at the same time with a similar MMR to you, if you get a bad team it is a good idea to wait a few minutes before queuing up again. That isn’t to say the population isn’t decreasing but it doesn’t mean the player pool is small on its own.

You know Yasi, I would. But now I won’t. Being pressured to prove myself is not something I care to do so you believe me. Believe whatever you want. Doesn’t make me a liar or you right.

Insanemaniac – “there is no such thing as a hardcoded win rate … to give you an unwinnable match or 2 after a win.” If you do the mathematics, as your mmr lowers, the end result is that if you win, let’s say 40% of the games you play, you will be partied up with players who also win 40% of the games they play, therefore the odds of you coming up against a “worse” team then you is only 39% and the odds of you coming up against a better team than yours is 61%. This applies to each of your teammates as well since their low MMR is what also got them placed on your team. By contrast, the other team has a 61% chance of winning (a substantially greater chance of winning than your team’s 39%).

Thus, the artificial skew/favoring of winning streaks over losing streaks and the correlational rewarding of those winning streaks by matching up players with similar mmrs and vice versa.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

@Eater of Peeps The reason I have been arguing on the forums is because the format this season promotes a system where you can progress without grinding. You are right I have only played about 20 matches but in those 20 matches I have managed to reach the last tier of emerald vs people who have claimed to play a hundred (if not hundreds) of matches are still stuck in the first few tiers.

It is because you were lucky enough that the system favored you. You might have equally well ended up on that other side. In that case, i’m quite sure you would have had a different opinion.

The fact that the system is broken doesn’t mean that it works against everyone – there are numerous people that benefit from it. You are one of them.
The system is still broken, however.

Yeah you are right my MMR is only above average because I have been lucky since the old solo queue leader board used to exist. At no point have I ever been good at the game, in fact everyone that is currently doing well this season is being carried by your bad teammates.

Luck has nothing to do with me not being in your situation, you are in your situation because your MMR is somewhere around average. Your issue should be with new players starting out with average MMR not the match making system itself.

Basket, you admit yourself that you havent really stalled yet. I have. Twice. I was twice at a point where even though I carried hard, and did not loose by much (400+ to 500+)… basically games I didnt loose pips for last season…. I lost pips I just earned the game(s) before that.
A winstreak does NOT negate that. I got a LOT of double pips last season… and even though I lost my share of games, those I felt were close, I didnt loose pips for usually.
That system was better than this streak-system.
Other things were broken last season, as I wrote countless times on the forums (smurfing, stronghold farm, builds, not resetting mmr, tanking mmr). But instead anet went over board trying to fix something that didnt really need a fix. Now the mmr favors large premades vs smaller premades and you get the same players every match thanks to small playerdivisions. I know exactly which around 15 players have the same league position and same mmr than me, because if I dont take a break for one day, I get matched up with them every game.

Nice Matchmaking @Anet. They really hate people doing solo q

Eater of Peeps.9062:

You know Yasi, I would. But now I won’t. Being pressured to prove myself is not something I care to do so you believe me. Believe whatever you want. Doesn’t make me a liar or you right.

Insanemaniac – “there is no such thing as a hardcoded win rate … to give you an unwinnable match or 2 after a win.” If you do the mathematics, as your mmr lowers, the end result is that if you win, let’s say 40% of the games you play, you will be partied up with players who also win 40% of the games they play, therefore the odds of you coming up against a “worse” team then you is only 39% and the odds of you coming up against a better team than yours is 61%. This applies to each of your teammates as well since their low MMR is what also got them placed on your team. By contrast, the other team has a 61% chance of winning (a substantially greater chance of winning than your team’s 39%).

Thus, the artificial skew/favoring of winning streaks over losing streaks and the correlational rewarding of those winning streaks by matching up players with similar mmrs and vice versa.

ok first, you need to differentiate between mmr and win rate. the 2 are entirely different numbers and cannot be conflated. here is information on what mmr is. yes it is elo, and yes gw2 uses mmr which is a modification of glicko score, which is a modification or the elo system. or something. but this is the basis for discussing your mmr. anyways, my point is, you simply cannot assign your win rate to be your mmr.

here is why:
lets say you throw your first 1000 games. your win rate is 0% and your mmr is trash. but then you start trying and win the next 200 games, and then find yourself at a spot where you win 50 of the next 100 games, because your mmr recovers fairly quickly. you are finally facing opponents who are actually at your skill level. now your win rate is 250/1300, or 19.2%. but you are at your correct mmr, and as you play another 2000 games, you win 1000 and your win rate slowly creeps towards 50%.

you can also look at the “opposite” case. this is how players ended up with ridiculously high win rates like 75-90% on the leaderboards way back closer to gw2s launch, and can still be seen to some extent in unranked. matchmaking sucks and just kinda puts you up against whoever is in the queue and tries a little to even out the average mmr of each team, but its really bad at doing so. in that situation, the pros that are able to not only win but also carry others are basically given free games almost every time, but the cycle of free games is never ending, so you see a high win rate that doesnt get closer to 50% as time goes on, because of bad matchmaking. when the system changes to good matchmaking, pros would quickly find their proper mmr (unless almost 0 people are actually more skilled than them), and then their entire game history would asymptotically approach 50% win rate from above.

so win rate is entirely irrelevant. this is why tons of people constantly ask for anet to show us mmr. because its the only real measure of skill. win rate can be kittened with. even mmr can be kittened with by throwing games, which is where proper oversight comes in to ensure that games remain competitive (not as in close matches, as in not throwing).

time and again i see people who complain about the system be unable to accurately describe what is happening. hopefully this will help you separate mmr from win rate in your mind.

tbh, i think the main problem with season 2 is the clamp on the pip range from which your teammates can be selected. basically, the system needs to take a pool of people in a restricted mmr range, select the one with the fewest pips, and grab the 4 people closest to that persons mmr.

instead, what is happening is that since leagues primarily represent a grind and not a skill rating due to no backwards progress (especially evident in amber-sapphire), the people that we should be matched with leave the pool of players we can be matched with simply because they play more games.

hence, players who are good but not good enough to carry the people theyre being matched with have to grind extra games because theyre unable to streak. in addition, grabbing a friend at your skill level would make it much easier to streak, because 2-4 people communicating will have a much easier time carrying players who are in the proper mmr range but probably would not get paired if the player pool extended past 15 pips.

in theory, if we took this system and simply cut out sapphire-diamond, it would be a better system. amber and emerald would be there to introduce players into the system. then the “legendary” divisions (rename the first few) match up everyone regardless of whether a person is legendary 1 or 6 or 10 and always give the illusion of forward progress by not being a zero sum system, and in reality division has nothing to do with mmr. but in that case, you would also have to attempt to match a team to another team with a close mmr to prevent an endless stompfest like we saw in the first days of this season. and it also would reward improving much much more than being good already, and while its good to reward improvement, its “necessary” to reward awesomeness. because in the end all we want is the rewards right?

in any case, season 3 sorely needs to separate “progress towards legendary” from “grinding gets you somewhere” from “division as a reflection of mmr”.

Wow, that really cleared it up! Not. I wasn’t confused, you just misinterpreted what I said, but w.e. I do appreciate that you took the time to explain ur view of mmr vs win/loss differentiation, as it may help some.

The net result is still how I described it.

I believe you Eater of Peeps. Been trying all day in emerald and got 2 wins I don’t even know how many times and always lost the third one. You can’t get up a tier without 3 wins in row. or 2 wins (after a losing 3 times) a loss then 2 wins. That never happened either.. It was 2 wins.. loss and win then loss. Statistically it should of happened the amount of times i got to 1 pip away. Like how a casino designs their games so the house always wins. If they are going to screw us over this much we can only expect more in the future. I don’t think this games worth playing with such bad management.

I think the problem also lies in solo q you have a good chance of coming up against a team that’s all op classes. Like 3 reapers and 2 scrappers or 4 eles and your whole team aren’t any of those. Or you have a team mate that wants to throw the game. Like one game I had where I was one pip away a necro abandonned us in the midfight where we would of won it and you could tell they were slacking. The odds of things like this happening are quite high and go against your chances of 3 wins in a row.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Wow, that really cleared it up! Not. I wasn’t confused, you just misinterpreted what I said, but w.e. I do appreciate that you took the time to explain ur view of mmr vs win/loss differentiation, as it may help some.

The net result is still how I described it.

sure bro. you keep thinking your win rate has anything to do with mmr.

Glicko2 is your winrate over a set interval with added variables deviation and volatility.
Volatility is there to smooth out erratic player performances (winning games player shouldnt be able to win, loosing games against players rated way below him).
Deviation is a variable to determine how “trustworthy” the mmr is. It basically is a mathematical solution of “something between X and Y”. It should increase the longer a player hasnt updated his rating (hasnt played in a pvp match) because … and thats what makes Glicko so much better than Elo, it accounts for not being able to perform on the same level as before you took a break for example.

But… and here’s the thing… Glicko2 – and mmr – do NOT take skilllevel into account. The mmr is calculated by looking at your… drumroll winrate.
You win, you increase your rating…
You loose, you decrease your rating…
Your deviation and volatility variables influence how much your rating is increased/decreased.

It’s been a while since I looked back at this thread but there was a point I wanted to contest with what some of you are saying: “high MMR players got carried by their MMR”. If that’s the case then they’re most likely stuck in high sapphire or low ruby. People in diamond/leg now started having even matches as far back as high sapphire. Nearly all my games in ruby were decided by a couple of mistakes or bad decisions.

Now that doesn’t address the issue with the large loss streaks people are having, and honestly unless people record their matches and post for evaluation (which some people have), there will be no way to truly determine if MMR is really the issue.

Sapphire is not bad for this season at this point. There are still loads of high end players who don’t play as much or started late who are still climbing through..

claytonmorby.3751:

It’s been a while since I looked back at this thread but there was a point I wanted to contest with what some of you are saying: “high MMR players got carried by their MMR”. If that’s the case then they’re most likely stuck in high sapphire or low ruby. People in diamond/leg now started having even matches as far back as high sapphire. Nearly all my games in ruby were decided by a couple of mistakes or bad decisions.

Now that doesn’t address the issue with the large loss streaks people are having, and honestly unless people record their matches and post for evaluation (which some people have), there will be no way to truly determine if MMR is really the issue.

Sapphire is not bad for this season at this point. There are still loads of high end players who don’t play as much or started late who are still climbing through..

I think the loss streaks are those mainly below/in sapphire. The skill level (while I’m stuck in Emerald T4) varies wildly. And cannot consistently win matches.

One match will be a cake walk were it feels like a 5 v 3. Next it feels like constant 4 v 5 for the next few matches. Skills which the either team is still has new to pvp players, to a match that felt like a good S1 Ruby/Diamond match.

my matches would be like win, win, lose, win, lose, win, lose, lose, win, win, lose lose lose then go onto win, lose, lose, lose, lose, win > repeat

Well since you can just grind out of amber that’s why emerald can be a cesspool of matches.

And S1 ruby/diamond matches were different for everyone, since it was pure grind through MMR.

If amber emerald were lost pips lost tiers divisions like ruby and diamond most of the new players wouldn’t get past the first amber tier. Average players could of probably climbed out faster not having to slosh through the mud for 15 tiers.

If they had a pve event that rewarded people with the backpiece but with a different flame colour say then the people who only want th skin would no longer be in pvp and only those that actually want to do pvp would stick around.

Because alot of people have no idea how to be a team or even the aim of the pvp game modes.

And it may seperate the best from the rest but it puts off over half their potential playerbase from bothering to continue because they are being punished for being new or not in a team or just not the beat pvper.

Have it like s1 where matches where more even, if a player is a pro as they claim then they should be able to pull a win out of a fair-ish fight, right now alot of people are putting down people who have bad games when they only won due to playing people who are far worse than them or because they teamed and switched classes mid match to win.

A league is no place to test out a new system like they have been doing now.

It just alienates a big playerbase whilst promoting bug exploits like the switching your class once the match has begun not to mention using certain meta builds in teams to practically ensure wins.

In the current system if you have a bad start then you will have bad matches right up til the last few weeks when you are having to cram in tons of matches to get to whatever division you have the skill to be in all because you had a single bad match at the beginning.

“Big playerbase”… I beg to differ… during primetime I get matched with the same around 15-20 people all the time. Sapphire t4.

Playerbase is way too small.

Season 2 is much worst then Season 1. Not sure how I’m managing it but I’ve made it to 1 pip from t5 sapphire 9 times now in 2 days only to make it back to the bottom of t4 sapphire 9 times. Most of what I’ve read hear is negative stuff but with a positive view; almost like the playerbase is trying to communicate with the devs that as we know don’t exist in communication land. The read sure but they dotn talk back and they don’t care. I’d say I dotn care but I’m obviously posting something. i’ll prolly even keep playing and failing to get the 2 last tiers I need for ruby. I hate the devs responsible for this. All is vain.

Yasi.9065:

Glicko2 is your winrate over a set interval with added variables deviation and volatility.
Volatility is there to smooth out erratic player performances (winning games player shouldnt be able to win, loosing games against players rated way below him).
Deviation is a variable to determine how “trustworthy” the mmr is. It basically is a mathematical solution of “something between X and Y”. It should increase the longer a player hasnt updated his rating (hasnt played in a pvp match) because … and thats what makes Glicko so much better than Elo, it accounts for not being able to perform on the same level as before you took a break for example.

But… and here’s the thing… Glicko2 – and mmr – do NOT take skilllevel into account. The mmr is calculated by looking at your… drumroll winrate.
You win, you increase your rating…
You loose, you decrease your rating…
Your deviation and volatility variables influence how much your rating is increased/decreased.

yes it does. you are rated against other players in every game, and every update to your mmr is based on who you played against. look at this, specifically at step 4 (pg 2) and step 7 (pg 4), where the algorithm grabs a game outcome and modifies it with a predicted outcome, weights it with a function of deviation, and normalizes it, using throughout your opponents rating and deviation.

your win rate has little to nothing to do with your current mmr. at best it can be used as an indicator of upward/downward/unchanging rating when most of the matches are near fair. that plainly cannot be the case in the event of a hard reset, where even a rating difference as small as 200 (in a scale bounded by 100-5000 and likely largely populated in the range of 1000-2000) will minimize the effect on your rating change.

/edit: actually I really dont give a kitten… Im not gonna reiterate the same statement I made hundreds of times just so you can still not get it. Believe what you like. And the sky is purple for some.

Yasi.9065:

/edit: actually I really dont give a kitten… Im not gonna reiterate the same statement I made hundreds of times just so you can still not get it. Believe what you like. And the sky is purple for some.

This…

“… where the algorithm grabs a game outcome and modifies it with a predicted outcome, weights it with a function of deviation, and normalizes it, using throughout your opponents rating and deviation.

your win rate has little to nothing to do with your current mmr." ?

Huh? The algorithm “grabs your game outcome … but has little to nothing to do with your current mmr?” O, I c, win/loss (game outcome) has nothing to do with mmr and vice versa! Right.

I have had the coding thoroughly explained by someone who knows. I get how it works.

I stand by what I said. If you have a losing streak of about 10-20 games for whatever reasons (and it could be anything, and on the first day it was many things), the algorithm codes it so that you will lose 66% of the time, and likewise, if you have a win streak of about 10-20 games, you will win 66% of the time. That is the end result and net effect of the algorithm, however you guys choose to explain. Just do the simple math.

you can win a bunch of unfair games and gain very little mmr, and lose a few fair games and lose a lot of mmr. or the opposite. thats why win rate doesnt matter.

Anet doesn’t know how to design anything right.

They need to copy the Starcraft 2 matchmaking system

1.) Go back to MMR as primary matchmaker (like SC2)
2.) MMR Persists through seasons (like SC2)
3.) Everyone resets to Amber on Season Reset (Not like SC2 but for good reason)

At end of Season everyone is Amber however:

Legendary/Diamond players will play each other at start of season (and throughout)

Amber/Emerald players will play each other at start of season (and throughout)

In this system you still get league resets however you get fair matches the entire season.

Storms Fury.9307:

Anet doesn’t know how to design anything right.

They need to copy the Starcraft 2 matchmaking system

1.) Go back to MMR as primary matchmaker (like SC2)
2.) MMR Persists through seasons (like SC2)
3.) Everyone resets to Amber on Season Reset (Not like SC2 but for good reason)

At end of Season everyone is Amber however:

Legendary/Diamond players will play each other at start of season (and throughout)

Amber/Emerald players will play each other at start of season (and throughout)

In this system you still get league resets however you get fair matches the entire season.

Season 1?

Krysard.1364:

Season 1?

Basically, yes. As long as you would add some mechanisms for pushing the better players faster up (so, not having pips gained/lost amount based on mmr difference, but rather purely on match results) it would be still way superior to what we have now.

What was a problem then was that better players soloquing were often gaining no pips on win and losing multiples on loss. The other main problem (having a low division player in a high division premade in order to get more favourable matchups) got already fixed halfway the previous season.