Guild Wars 2

8 matches today. I am still where I started. 4 losses, 4 wins. This is a recurring theme that happens. I have been stuck in the same spot for 3 days now. I haven’t gone up or down. Why? Because this season has been deliberately designed to stop players from climbing the league system.

puts on tin foil hat

Considering there has been 2 whole seasons now, there is a good variety of players spread between the tiers, therefore ArenaNet logically wouldn’t want all the players to climb to the top, because there would be nobody in Amber/Emerald.

The old pips system was fine, because it gave enough leeway for players to reliably climb the tiers, even if they lost, because losing by a hair’s width wouldn’t remove a pip, giving them a chance to gain a pip, and climb next match,whereas the new black and white system “loss = -1, win = +1”, makes it borderline impossible to climb reliably, even with premades.

I can consistently either win the game, or go 400/500 loss. In previous seasons, this means I would have been at least a whole league above where I am now. In the current, corrupt system, I have been stuck in the same spot for long enough to make me question weather I want to quit pvp or not.

Discuss.

On an unrelated note, I have never won a match on Forest of Niflhelm since S3 began. Likely because this season has so many AoE classes in the meta, all three points turn into a blast chamber because they are all enclosed, in which only the team with the most Elementalist and Necromancers can survive in. Its also probably something to do with the fact the Feng Shui is terrible in that map.

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

This isn’t counter-intuitive, to progress you have to progress your skill to be able to climb into the higher skill divisions. It’s of interest to the players that want to be better performing at pvp

So your arguement is that by grinding out matches with absolutely no skill you should be rewarded with a top PvP rank?

You do understand PvP means Player versus Player right? And that you actually have to be better than other PLAYERS to get top ranked?

Yes, PvP is designed to make you lose against players that are better at the game than you are. Are you saying it shouldn’t be? Are you perchance a big fan of Call of Duty?

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

this system has progress designed into it. it is a race to legendary. the very best players get there fastest, but the walkers can make it too by grinding, because the system is flawed and is nowhere near zero sum.

thus, by waiting for everyone better than you to get ahead of you, you can get easy matches and play catch up later and have your progress and your legendary.

insanemaniac.2456:

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

this system has progress designed into it. it is a race to legendary. the very best players get there fastest, but the walkers can make it too by grinding, because the system is flawed and is nowhere near zero sum.

thus, by waiting for everyone better than you to get ahead of you, you can get easy matches and play catch up later and have your progress and your legendary.

This is exactly how it works. Same as season two. Just as meaningless. Progressing leagues gets easier and easier as the better players move up leaving only worse players to play against.

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

that statement is very wrong. unless your god and can carry every team you get then it is dumb luck you advance . am a sapphire teir 2 atm i just had a match normally i would say personal score means nothing. however in this case it does 2 team mates got 0 points . sorry man but i am way beyond players like that skill wise

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

This isn’t counter-intuitive, to progress you have to progress your skill to be able to climb into the higher skill divisions. It’s of interest to the players that want to be better performing at pvp

Personal skill has nothing to do with how well you do in the league. As you are only 20% of a team. Yes a team. If the other 80% don’t do there job, you, no matter how good you are, can not hold points on your own in a 5 vs 1. You might be able to hold out for a bit, but you know the out come. People can “git gud” all they like. If the other 80% don’t know what they are doing, and 80% of the other team dose. You will lose.

The league is as much about luck as it is skill. The pip system.is not a true reflection of.your skill, losing pips is just a way to slow people down, and to make progression harder. To create a false sense of peoples “skill”. Look at every sport on the planet, no one takes away points for losing. They all work on games played, then win, loss, draw. Better players will always win more games, than bad players, even if the bad play more games. This would show peoples skill more truthfully than the pip system. I’m not saying that people in the high divisions don’t belong there, but this system would show people how good they really are. As the match making could just pit people with the same win rates against each other so the cream would rise to the top.

insanemaniac.2456:

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

this system has progress designed into it. it is a race to legendary. the very best players get there fastest, but the walkers can make it too by grinding, because the system is flawed and is nowhere near zero sum.

thus, by waiting for everyone better than you to get ahead of you, you can get easy matches and play catch up later and have your progress and your legendary.

It shouldn’t have to be that way though. Due to the game having stakes (MMR = the more you lose the more you’re going to lose) people need to take the system into account for queuing. Let’s say you want to read a certain book on your own time. You may ask yourself, “What can I learn from this?” and naturally go through it. However, repeat the exact same situation in a classroom setting where grades are on the line and now instead you’ll ask yourself, “What’s the best way of optimizing my score?” which doesn’t necessarily involve learning per se but memorization and different formulas. You know the “importance” of specific dates or X proper noun attached to Y verb.

If the system favors waiting then wait, preferably with reliable teammates you know understands the basics and uses good builds and most importantly understands 1v1 matchups and when to rotate and where. It’s bizarre that people view a league system as a progression system but the player himself needs to get better to advance and top leagues should be reserved for good players. Matchmaking is much better this season than last.

Leagues isn’t a reward track so no, progression is not guaranteed.

Shadow.1345:

Leagues isn’t a reward track so no, progression is not guaranteed.

But it is a reward track, just one you are not guaranteed to progress on.

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

That is not true this season.

Now you are always matched up with players with simliar MMR so except for a few outliers you will always have close to 50% winrate in theory. Does not matter which division you are on.

The only tier system that puts where you belong should be a tier system that directly correlates your position to your MMR. Current system is a test of luck and raw number of games played. e.g. wwwlllw > wlwlwlw

BrotherBelial.3094:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

This isn’t counter-intuitive, to progress you have to progress your skill to be able to climb into the higher skill divisions. It’s of interest to the players that want to be better performing at pvp

Personal skill has nothing to do with how well you do in the league. As you are only 20% of a team. Yes a team. If the other 80% don’t do there job, you, no matter how good you are, can not hold points on your own in a 5 vs 1. You might be able to hold out for a bit, but you know the out come. People can “git gud” all they like. If the other 80% don’t know what they are doing, and 80% of the other team dose. You will lose.

The league is as much about luck as it is skill. The pip system.is not a true reflection of.your skill, losing pips is just a way to slow people down, and to make progression harder. To create a false sense of peoples “skill”. Look at every sport on the planet, no one takes away points for losing. They all work on games played, then win, loss, draw. Better players will always win more games, than bad players, even if the bad play more games. This would show peoples skill more truthfully than the pip system. I’m not saying that people in the high divisions don’t belong there, but this system would show people how good they really are. As the match making could just pit people with the same win rates against each other so the cream would rise to the top.

I’m not saying there isn’t a better way to implement a more reflection of skill, but individual skill does come into play in the current system, the better you become the more you can tilt the odds in your favor, it would have helped more so if they reset the MMR for everyone as well as division placing to better allow people’s skill to place them appropriately, could it be implemented better? Yes. But right now it does show you where your skill level is till the better players filter out of the lower tiers to the tiers they belong

Well… I used to be dragon… In previous season used to be ruby, s1 too and now? All I can do is praying that I get NORMAL teammates… Last matches I was placed with 3 amber and 1 diamond premade – I’m emerald atm, cos of this kittenty system – and we wree up against 2 diamons, 1 ruby and 2 emeralds… You can’t call it fair matchmaking… kitten Since yesterday I got 10 lose streak while being top player in my team with 150-250 points and 2. placeholder had from 20 to 70 points… WTF?! It is definitly allowing players to climb up… Definitly…

Kasteros.9847:

Last matches I was placed with 3 amber and 1 diamond premade – I’m emerald atm, cos of this kittenty system – and we wree up against 2 diamons, 1 ruby and 2 emeralds…

screenshot please.

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Last matches I was placed with 3 amber and 1 diamond premade – I’m emerald atm, cos of this kittenty system – and we wree up against 2 diamons, 1 ruby and 2 emeralds…

screenshot please.

there are screen shots of lots of mix matches in forums this is nothing new

trunks.5249:

insanemaniac.2456:

Kasteros.9847:

Last matches I was placed with 3 amber and 1 diamond premade – I’m emerald atm, cos of this kittenty system – and we wree up against 2 diamons, 1 ruby and 2 emeralds…

screenshot please.

there are screen shots of lots of mix matches in forums this is nothing new

yeah, and every single one of them falls within the parameters set for matchmaking. what this guy is describing would not unless he is part of the premade, therefore i say screenshot please.

This is interesting to me. I find this season to be the most balanced yet. I’ve had several very close nail-biting games. The system still stacks higher MMR players on one team, but the spread is bearable. I feel like I can effect the outcome because the skill levels are all pretty much the same.

Archon.6480:

This is interesting to me. I find this season to be the most balanced yet. I’ve had several very close nail-biting games. The system still stacks higher MMR players on one team, but the spread is bearable. I feel like I can effect the outcome because the skill levels are all pretty much the same.

That’s usually the case this season but today I’ve just been getting exalted legends consistently on the other team so it’s probably best to wait it out before they tank my MMR. The way things look today the more I play the lower my MMR will get meaning less of a chance to make Diamond this season.

Agemnon.4608:

Archon.6480:

This is interesting to me. I find this season to be the most balanced yet. I’ve had several very close nail-biting games. The system still stacks higher MMR players on one team, but the spread is bearable. I feel like I can effect the outcome because the skill levels are all pretty much the same.

That’s usually the case this season but today I’ve just been getting exalted legends consistently on the other team so it’s probably best to wait it out before they tank my MMR. The way things look today the more I play the lower my MMR will get meaning less of a chance to make Diamond this season.

Yeah, I think that’s a good idea. I have a 3-4 game rule. Loose that many in a row and walk away, otherwise who knows what will happen. I am not entirely convinced the whole MMR hell thing has been resolved.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Argon.1563:

Zuko.7132:

The tier system is meant to put u where u belong, if ur having close matches and win about 50% of the time thus staying where u are it seems like u reached ur appropriate place

In which theres no point in playing any more, which is counter-intuitive design considering this an MMO, where the whole point is to keep players interested through opportunities for progression.

This isn’t counter-intuitive, to progress you have to progress your skill to be able to climb into the higher skill divisions. It’s of interest to the players that want to be better performing at pvp

Its counter intuitive when the legendary achievements are designed to be obtained by progressing up tiers and anet themselves state that the intention is that anybody be able to get the legendary backpack if they play enough.

Matchmaking seems more balanced than last season. Overall I’m getting better matches. Unless I’m gonna go up a tier, those matches always seem extra unbalanced. It’s a bit frustrating but nothing I didn’t experience in S2.

Just started playing this season so only currently emerald, got ruby the other 2 seasons by casually pvp’ing sometimes. Still feels unfair as every match seems filled with dragon emotes. I get you can grind it but still.

This is a good thing the numbers at the top should contain only the best. This is how other esports structure their ladder. If you wan’t to climb you have to be good enough to climb.
If you show your improvement based on carrying a team that you try to work with consistently and you don’t climb, then complain.

Also rather than just saying get good. I will say it might not be your fault. Keep track of how often you die giving the enemy points and the percentage of the points you cap by recording your matches. If out of 10 you show outstanding performance and work with your team, it is likely the game’s fault. However, if you find you have a 50/50 good/bad or worse performance rate you are where you belong.

Trust me self criticism first will make you a better player. Don’t be afraid to admit fault whether it is yours or the games.

Legend is way too easy to get anyway and a joke. I’m happy that some people atleast won’t get legend. Mathematically, everyone with enough effort can get legend because of the winstreak system and because over time the better players will climb and leave him with inferior matchups to face. Honestly if you can’t climb, get good or wait till people climb.

again ppl fail to understand the logic
if its 50% win lose rate combine with mmr if you start at specific division yo wont be able to get out of there (maybe you get ruby as you can lose tier also). so now the factor of luck is introduce with win strike and matchmaking which enable you to get another pip and climb.

the system is great for players who dont have mmr (ie new player) as they will get up till their mmr is same as others.
but if in amber i get same mmr ppl against me the division say nothing as i will play against them in 50% win lose chance. until all the lucky one will climb and all the bad ones will stay at amber and now i will face bad ones and no luck match making is involved.

Nobody forces me anything. Nobody will stop me climbing. I shall now stop by myself, from my own will. See you in season 4, where possible things will be better. We all know how the past ~4 years were, so most likely, from my own will, I shall skip season 5 too, and see you in 6, then skip that too… who knows? Long live RNG!

It’s a rank system for god’s sake… It’s not a bad thing if ranks would begin to mean something. Starting in saph this season opened my eyes, I am a bad player and should have never gotten as high as diamond in soloQ…

We need to start accepting the fact that most of us aren’t probably as good as we think and the previously achieved ranks have been lies. For god’s sake usually reaching Diamond rank in a competitive game means something already and legend is reserved for the true cream of the crop (1% or something similar).

The previous seasons have been too easy to climb and this is disrespectful for actually good/talented players.

insanemaniac.2456:

thus, by waiting for everyone better than you to get ahead of you, you can get easy matches and play catch up later and have your progress and your legendary.

It didn’t work that way in season 2, as you’d need to wait for longer than the season’s length. Why do you think it would work now?

Previous season i could understand people whine because matches were unbalanced and long loosing streaks happen.

This season, i don’t see an issue. If you can’t climb, that means that’s the right place for you to improve skill wise, if you don’t want to … then there is nothing to discuss.

this season is 2 months long, your trying to be on top in a few days, and when u cant u start QQing. my problem is the opposite, if i get to legendary in a week what the kitten am i gonna do for the rest of the season? w/e warhammer will be out in 2 days. i play 3-4 games a day this season so far.

One thing is for sure. After seasons are over or after people get their wings your pvp experience will not go up. It will actually go down in to the slums..because this whole circus frustrated people so much they will simply stop playing this arbitrary game mod. So all you elite pvpers..brace yourself for queues.

Seasons were intended as a means to bring fresh blood in pvp. It achieved completely the opposite.

No issue this season. Mostly every game I encountered was close. Loses are due to a series of bad mistakes players make. My favorite is when your winning and people feel its better to get off points to chase 1 person down. Just to lose points and never getting them back. Wins are made by points not kills. In case people forgot that.

Rebound.3409:

One thing is for sure. After seasons are over or after people get their wings your pvp experience will not go up. It will actually go down in to the slums..because this whole circus frustrated people so much they will simply stop playing this arbitrary game mod. So all you elite pvpers..brace yourself for queues.

Seasons were intended as a means to bring fresh blood in pvp. It achieved completely the opposite.

So what does fresh blood want ? To be a fresh legendary no matter how bad they are ?

Who cares about being legendary. You are blind if u think that.

People don’t want to be stuck, after playing 4-5 + hours/day in the same tier for days. Nobody is even thinking of legendary. I don’t think i’ve met any game that does that level of time wasting literally for 0 reward. And you think people won’t get frustrated and quit? HA

Remember..the SAME VERY LIMITED MOD…for 4-5h/day……for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING…100% NO progression

Rebound.3409:

Who cares about being legendary. You are blind if u think that.

People don’t want to be stuck, after playing 4-5 + hours in the same tier for days. Nobody is even thinking of legendary.

Dno, if they don’t like being stuck – then they ll achieve legendary eventually. Which means everyone ll get legendary. Which means everyone is entitled enough to be legendary.

If they don’t like matches itself and only thing they care is progress, then you know, spvp not the mode they are looking for.

Rebound.3409:

Who cares about being legendary. You are blind if u think that.

People don’t want to be stuck, after playing 4-5 + hours/day in the same tier for days. Nobody is even thinking of legendary. I don’t think i’ve met any game that does that level of time wasting literally for 0 reward. And you think people won’t get frustrated and quit? HA

Remember..the SAME VERY LIMITED MOD…for 4-5h/day……for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING…100% NO progression

So you do understand what the word COMPETETIVE means right? Like when you click to join a match it says COMPETE. It means you get rewarded for being better, not for spamming it all day every day. If you’re not better you don’t progress. Honestly, you are arguing that they should turn this into some carebear grind for bored PvEers?

What does competitive mean? at least 80% of the player base plays solo queue. How am i being competitive or how is my skill judged and rewarded with pips considering i might have a bad team. How should i compensate for that and why am i being punished for that?

There is absolutely nothing competitive about this game mod…as players who might deserve better divisions are kept in lower divisions and vice versa.

Anyway, as i said..don’t worry. Each has his own vision. Your game mod will be dead soon enough. 8/10 people who get their wings will never look at this again…or BEST CASE will do 1-2 matches in casual mode not leagues.

All in all seasons failed it’s main purpose and you will feel it soon enough. You are already feeling it in the form of queue times. Yesterday, 3 times in a row i was placed in a full pug group vs the same 4 man team +1 pug. Guess the system can’t find players.

Sometimes is good to stop complaining and accept the beautiful reality: SoloQ must die. Reaching Diamond or Legend in SoloQ is not acceptable in a game designed for teamwork. PvP should never be played alone in a match of 5v5. Imagine forming a football team with random players, now imagine this as a professional e-sport.

Problem is: you can’t kill SoloQ. If you enforce teamplay, nobody consumes this game PvP, if you do not remove SoloQ, there is no fun game and proper balance.

People are not even complaining about diamond or legend. Most are stuck in the kitten tiers like emerald or whatever with close to no progression.

A friend thief who was leg both s1 and s2 can’t get past emerald mid..and he plays like crazy.

Rebound.3409:

People are not even complaining about diamond or legend. Most are stuck in the kitten tiers like emerald or whatever with close to no progression.

Absolutely correct, because they play SoloQ and are matched against other SoloQ. The only way to progress in this situation is pure luck.

If you hate this system so incredibly much and want to be the bestestest then go find a team. If you can’t find a team, make a team. If that is too much effort then you have no right to complain.

exactly..so ANet made a gambling system for 80% of it’s pvp players and STILL EXPECT THEM to continue playing after this is done.

Good job..you came to my conclusion earlier.

That’s what happens when a company catters to just 20% of it’s customers. It also happened in REAL competitive games like Starcraft..not this joke.

Real pro players in this game:
1. Should be rewarded in another way (for ex a special set of leg wings..maybe reskinned if u get to legendary etc, they already get titles)
2. Most pros play seasons as a joke. Real pros play competitions for $$ not pixels

Casuals:
1. Should get something for their hours spent. As is, there are the current wings
2. People should have an easier time to progress till the mid levels (diamond and above should be hard)

For most players in this game it’s down to how much time u waste vs how much u receive for it….and THAT IS A GOOD MENTALITY.

Rebound.3409:

exactly..so ANet made a gambling system for 80% of it’s pvp players and STILL EXPECT THEM to continue playing after this is done.

Good job..you came to my conclusion earlier.

That’s what happens when a company catters to just 20% of it’s customers. It also happened in REAL competitive games like Starcraft..not this joke

You know?! It is not that hard to be in those 20%. Make a team with voice chat. It’s simple.

That is one of the dumbest things you could bring up as an argument together with “git gud”

1. Timezones.
2. On the fly teams need time to get to know eachother and get good. You don’t just form a party and start wining.
3. All of them should be able to be online at the same time interval for several hours.
4. It takes time to solidify what u have as a team classes etc.
5. All should have chat programs all should have microphones and all should want to actually do all that jazz.

It’s down to time. As i said if i or anyone in these leagues was actually trying to be competitive, they would not even think of these and just do organized lobbies for it.

Hell most don’t even like having a party..most players get home from a job, and want to just unwind playing solo.

I repeat..i am NOT TALKING about Diamond and up. I am talking about bone-divisions which are harder to progress the legendary atm.

Rebound.3409:

A friend thief who was leg both s1 and s2 can’t get past emerald mid..and he plays like crazy.

A friend thief who was leg in s1 tanked mmr and then formed a team to farm soloqers and in s2 payed for taxi, can’t get past emerald mid. I have those friends too.

Wait how is he emerald mid if he was leg in s2.

I m so tiered of people whine for no reason, in this season i was playing against top 100 and bunch of esl teams members. And i lost some. Why i don’t whine ? When i even faced them in “kitten” sapphire tier which made my progress stale for a while.

Sry started is sapphire. Got them mixed up.

And no..he played like 80% solo both seasons. He does indeed know some people at his same skill level but timezones kinda made him play more solo. He is just legit good.

And as you i am also tired of people defending a flawed system who can’t see past their pride. As i said, the consequences of this seasons charade are already seen under the form of queues and pugs-vs-team matches which i get more and more. People are simply just quitting. If that’s what you wanted for your game mod, then you will receive it…pretty soon as i can see. It’s all down to the balance between time invested vs reward (may it be items or pips). What seasons have done is to frustrate and drive away new people who were attracted to this mod by the wings (without those wings you would have never had the pvp population to host seasons in the first place).

Wow man to many people going on each throats over a pixel game here.The thing some of them are right the system is weird!Ho it pairs teams up is beyond my comprehension .Personal experience i managed in 1 day to hit Ruby form 0 then i ranked up nice in it,not to mention was put against a loots of premades somehow we won it.What got me high placed.Then after having few pips in ruby i sudden got hit with weird teams do not understand the system and lost all progress.

Here Example Screen shoot from 1 of the last games i played i started leaving fast game without any more paying attention after loosing over 29 games in Ruby thx to having Amber-Sapphire and Emerald team pairs.

Sismis.5390:

Wow man to many people going on each throats over a pixel game here.The thing some of them are right the system is weird!Ho it pairs teams up is beyond my comprehension .Personal experience i managed in 1 day to hit Ruby form 0 then i ranked up nice in it,not to mention was put against a loots of premades somehow we won it.What got me high placed.Then after having few pips in ruby i sudden got hit with weird teams do not understand the system and lost all progress.

Here Example Screen shoot from 1 of the last games i played i started leaving fast game without any more paying attention after loosing over 29 games in Ruby thx to having Amber-Sapphire and Emerald team pairs.

Good example showing that why solo queue is needed.

It is not just frustrating to play against premade. It can be frustrating playing with them as well.