Guild Wars 2

OK, let’s try and do this again…

Mods, please-please-please refrain from merging this topic. The reason I have started this is because the original poster of the first thread has gone on hiatus so having a new post allows me to make updates.

I’m keeping my list out of this, however if I get the time I’ll try and average out the (reasonable) lists we get here and try to get an idea of what the forum population’s view of the current games balance is.

Also, please try to take a few minutes to justify your reasoning and remain as objective as possible. Obviously everyone will have bias based on what we play but use facts to explain your view, and be sure to check what you are saying is accurate.

Tier List Key:
S = Superior (Highest Tier)
A = Average (All classes should strive to be here)
B = Below Average
C =

The – (Negative) sign denotes that the class may fall into a lower Tier.
The + (Positive) sign denotes that the class may get bumped to a higher Tier.
The = (Equal) sign denotes that the class is equivalent to other classes with = in the Tier.

EDIT: Just a suggestion when evaluating a class, think about whether the class is strong or weak or easy or hard to play because of it’s design, or if it’s in its current state because of the Meta.

For example the Mesmer isn’t seeing much play atm, but is it because the class is weak, or is it because it’s biggest weakness, conditions, is so popular?

Or is Warrior really as strong as many view it to be because it was overbuffed, or is the prevalence of condition builds that bring few counters to CC and the absence of their natural enemies like Mesmers that make them feel so strong?

UPDATE: It seems like the only consistent analysis is that Ele is the worst PvP class atm.

After today’s patch:

S
Warrior
Necromancer

A
Ranger
Guardian
+Mesmer

B
Engineer
Elementalist

C
+Thief

Edit: Turns out there were no balance updates for today’s patch.

Revised list:

S
Warrior
Necromancer

A
Ranger
Guardian
Mesmer

B
Engineer
Thief

C
Elementalist

Guess I’ll start this.

S tier – - – - – - – - -
No one here

A tier – - – - – - –
Necro+
The good ones have great survivability AND damage as well as a good stunbreak or two.

Guardian
BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK, and now you’re on fire!

Engie-
Can CC and such pretty well to do their damage. Have obvious counters.

B tier – - – - – - –
Mesmer
Avg damage, avg survivability, above avg befuddlement and has good surprise bursts sometimes.

Warrior
Good damage, good to awesome stability, good hard CC, as much hp as necro until death shroud. Usually has one hole in their build that will always be there that can be exploited until they die.

Thief
(Still in stealth)

Elementalist-
Seemingly below avg in almost always survivability or damage. Wouldn’t mind seeing them get a buff.

Ranger’s a difficult one* to place. After most of my fights it could be B- or C+. So I’ma just mark it here like so. Reasoning is that they either kick my butt after those crazy blocks/evades or I run up and touch them and they die =/.

*Forum fun fact: Type the words “hard” followed by “one” and it’ll output “kittene”.

After today’s patch:

S
bunker Guardian

A
Necro
Warrior
Engineer
Ranger

B
Thief
Mesmer

C
Ele got no idea actully i dont see many of them in tpvp

S:
warrior

A:
thief
necro
guardian

B:
ranger
engineer

C:
mesmer
ele

S: Warrior, Necro, Thief
A: Guardian, Ranger, Engineer
B: Mesmer
C: Elementalist

s: Warrior Necro Guardian Thief
a: mesmer ranger engineer
c: ele

“c: thief” LOOOOL NEVER thief is still so broken in tpvp

S: Warrior, Necro, Thief
A: Guardian, Mesmer, Ranger, Engineer
B: Elementalist

s:
war, necro, thief

a:
guard, engi, ranger

b:
mesmer

c:
ele

S
war nec thief

A
guard ranger engi (actually engi is kind of B but only because the S classes can counter it reasonably well (also im biased on engi so i put A anyway))

B
Mesmer

dont even try playing ele – just not enough HP to be alive

S –
A – Warrior+, Necro, Thief-, Guardian-
B – ranger, mesmer, ele, engineer
C -

Ottohi.2871:

Guess I’ll start this.

S tier – - – - – - – - -
No one here

A tier – - – - – - –
Necro+
The good ones have great survivability AND damage as well as a good stunbreak or two.

Guardian
BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK, and now you’re on fire!

Engie-
Can CC and such pretty well to do their damage. Have obvious counters.

B tier – - – - – - –
Mesmer
Avg damage, avg survivability, above avg befuddlement and has good surprise bursts sometimes.

Warrior
Good damage, good to awesome stability, good hard CC, as much hp as necro until death shroud. Usually has one hole in their build that will always be there that can be exploited until they die.

Thief
(Still in stealth)

Elementalist-
Seemingly below avg in almost always survivability or damage. Wouldn’t mind seeing them get a buff.

Ranger’s a difficult one* to place. After most of my fights it could be B- or C+. So I’ma just mark it here like so. Reasoning is that they either kick my butt after those crazy blocks/evades or I run up and touch them and they die =/.

*Forum fun fact: Type the words “hard” followed by “one” and it’ll output “kittene”.

LOL @ this post.

Every class has a stunbreak or two..

S: Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian

A: None

B: None

C: All others

S: Warrior- , Necro-
A: Engineer+, Mesmer+, Guardian, Thief-, Ranger-
B: Ele+

People underestimate the burst of a mesmer. It’s beyond ridiculous and almost in the superior category.

S:
Necro – AOE condi spam and fear
Warrior – CC regen is insane. Healing signet needs to be have less base heal and an increased tie to healing power. (Use soldiers amulet and the heal should be much less than today. Use clerics and it should be more than today)

A:
None

B:
Guardian – If this was a tPvP thread, they would be A
Mesmer – Fantastic roamer
Ele – Not as bad as eles like to claim.
Engi – 2 good specs

C:
Thief – Good for killing noobs. That’s about it.

C-:
Ranger – Easy to kill

S
Necro
Warrior

A
Guardian A+
Thief >A
Mesmer =A
Engineer <A

B-Peasant tier.
Ranger
Elementalist

S = Superior (Highest Tier)

• Spirit Ranger
• Necro

A = Average (All classes should strive to be here)

• Warrior (might become S – Class soon)
• Guardian
• Mesmer
• Ele
• Thief

B = Below Average

• Power Ranger

C =

Assuming class tiers mean best build in it’s place in a team:

S:
-Necromancer
(Really good at lots of everything at once)

A:
+Warrior
(Huge buffs to healing and condi removal made them hard to focus while doing enormous damage)
+Ranger – Spirits
(Spirits still bring strong team support and really good damage from the ranger)
=Guardian – Bunker
(Guardian strong as ever, although they may have “sitting in a circle” competition from Warrior now)
=Engineer – Kit/condi
(Just feels ever so slightly redundant to ranger with a bit more teamfight power)
=Thief – s/d or d/p – both ok

B
=Mesmer
(Portal will never be bad, no matter how easily the class falls under millions of conditions)
=Elementalist
(Feels a bit redundant to other tanky dps builds like most warriors but good eles like Blinx and cmc almost make it feel like S+)

Reasons for my listing is pure representation based. No theory crafting or views on individual abilities, just a real world litmus test of what classes a team will bring when a real consequence to losing exists.

The data I am using comes from the PAX invitational, both the final and the Open qualifier finals for NA and EU, and the ESL Open Finals and Grand Finals. That is a total of 8 teams, each reaching the highest levels of success.

S:
=Ranger
9/8 On the 8 teams being most successful in these tournaments there were 9 Rangers. One team was willing to bring 2 rangers over any other class.

A:
+Guardian
8/8 Every single one of the 8 teams had 1 Guardian. May be closer to S class.

+Necromancer
8/8 with one Necromancer per team. May be closer to S class.

-Thief
6/8 Six of the 8 teams gave a team spot to a thief. With 8 professions and only 5 spots on a team, no profession should expect 100% representation. With 40 total spots over 8 teams, each profession should have 5. The thief may be the only true “A” but I will assign it a – and give the other two A class professions a + to denote the difference.

B:

=Warrior
3/8 Warriors were found on only 3 of the 8 teams. Two of the teams were finalists so Warrior may deserve a +, only more tournaments will show that. Regardless warriors are under-representing since each profession should achieve 5 spots out of 40 or 12.5% representation in top teams.

=Engineer
3/8 Three of the 8 teams had an engineer spot. One of the engineer spots was a finalist team. Engineer may be a – when compared directly in this category with warrior. Finalist spot is a very close distinction, and both are equally under-represented, so both are simply listed as =.

-Mesmer
2/8 Only 2 teams gave spots to a Mesmer, but both those teams were finalists. Mesmers may have a hidden strength, but they still are less represented than Warrior and Engineer in B class. Listing them with a – to show this.

C:
Elementalist
1/8 Only one elementalist found a spot in the top 8. Help these guys. The most under-represented profession at this time.

Iscariot.4876:

Reasons for my listing is pure representation based. No theory crafting or views on individual abilities, just a real world litmus test of what classes a team will bring when a real consequence to losing exists.

The data I am using comes from the PAX invitational, both the final and the Open qualifier finals for NA and EU, and the ESL Open Finals and Grand Finals. That is a total of 8 teams, each reaching the highest levels of success.

S:
=Ranger
9/8 On the 8 teams being most successful in these tournaments there were 9 Rangers. One team was willing to bring 2 rangers over any other class.

A:
+Guardian
8/8 Every single one of the 8 teams had 1 Guardian. May be closer to S class.

+Necromancer
8/8 with one Necromancer per team. May be closer to S class.

-Thief
6/8 Six of the 8 teams gave a team spot to a thief. With 8 professions and only 5 spots on a team, no profession should expect 100% representation. With 40 total spots over 8 teams, each profession should have 5. The thief may be the only true “A” but I will assign it a – and give the other two A class professions a + to denote the difference.

B:

=Warrior
3/8 Warriors were found on only 3 of the 8 teams. Two of the teams were finalists so Warrior may deserve a +, only more tournaments will show that. Regardless warriors are under-representing since each profession should achieve 5 spots out of 40 or 12.5% representation in top teams.

=Engineer
3/8 Three of the 8 teams had an engineer spot. One of the engineer spots was a finalist team. Engineer may be a – when compared directly in this category with warrior. Finalist spot is a very close distinction, and both are equally under-represented, so both are simply listed as =.

C:
Elementalist
1/8 Only one elementalist found a spot in the top 8. Help these guys. The most under-represented profession at this time.

No mesmer? lol and people are still calling for nerfs on us.

jportell.2197:

No mesmer? lol and people are still calling for nerfs on us.

Totally my fault, I missed the notes I made on them, I’ll edit and add them.

I think Mesmer will become a big player again due to Warriors becoming more popular which means the condition meta is becoming less attractive. Considering how well a Mesmer can counter a Warrior them being strong is actually a good thing for them.

Only Ele seems to be truly lacking, I think they need to be able to become bunkers to the point where either a Ele or a Guardian would be a strong choice. Pretty much every class would then have some sort of role to play and from then on only shaving should need to be done in theory.

Iscariot.4876:

Reasons for my listing is pure representation based. No theory crafting or views on individual abilities, just a real world litmus test of what classes a team will bring when a real consequence to losing exists.

The data I am using comes from the PAX invitational, both the final and the Open qualifier finals for NA and EU, and the ESL Open Finals and Grand Finals. That is a total of 8 teams, each reaching the highest levels of success.

S:
=Ranger
9/8 On the 8 teams being most successful in these tournaments there were 9 Rangers. One team was willing to bring 2 rangers over any other class.

A:
+Guardian
8/8 Every single one of the 8 teams had 1 Guardian. May be closer to S class.

+Necromancer
8/8 with one Necromancer per team. May be closer to S class.

-Thief
6/8 Six of the 8 teams gave a team spot to a thief. With 8 professions and only 5 spots on a team, no profession should expect 100% representation. With 40 total spots over 8 teams, each profession should have 5. The thief may be the only true “A” but I will assign it a – and give the other two A class professions a + to denote the difference.

B:

=Warrior
3/8 Warriors were found on only 3 of the 8 teams. Two of the teams were finalists so Warrior may deserve a +, only more tournaments will show that. Regardless warriors are under-representing since each profession should achieve 5 spots out of 40 or 12.5% representation in top teams.

=Engineer
3/8 Three of the 8 teams had an engineer spot. One of the engineer spots was a finalist team. Engineer may be a – when compared directly in this category with warrior. Finalist spot is a very close distinction, and both are equally under-represented, so both are simply listed as =.

-Mesmer
2/8 Only 2 teams gave spots to a Mesmer, but both those teams were finalists. Mesmers may have a hidden strength, but they still are less represented than Warrior and Engineer in B class. Listing them with a – to show this.

C:
Elementalist
1/8 Only one elementalist found a spot in the top 8. Help these guys. The most under-represented profession at this time.

Great way of displaying data. This sort of info is more useful than just listing a profession with no extra detail added. The difference between a longbow/rifle warrior and a hammer/mace warrior is too big to simply just say warrior.

S: -Warrior, -Necro

Necros may be moving down because people are figuring out how warriors counter them. Warriors may be moving down because people are figuring out how mesmers counter them.

A: +Guardian, =Ranger, =Thief, +Engineer

Engineer just barely clings to this tier, but with upcoming changes as well as a shifting meta, they may emerge in a strong position. That said, the relative difficulty of playing them effectively will prevent them from ever being on the same level of say, pre-nerf spirit ranger. Warriors stomping the condition builds also helps guardians re-establish themselves.

B: +Mesmer, Elementalist

Elementalist is hard to figure out, and I get the feeling I’m not the only one. The barriers prohibiting players from reaching full potential will have to be broken to really see where they are, a la engineer as of next month. I don’t think condition builds will fall out of favor enough for them to shine as bunkers, but it may strengthen their position some.

Mesmer is looking to have a prominent spot when the new meta settles, not so much as the centerpiece of the meta, but rather a strong counterpart to it. Wild card here.

C: N/A

S

Warrior – Their combined durability and ability to constantly AoE stun is overpowered.

Necromancer – Again insane survivability combined with constant fear and a ridiculous amount of conditions being applied AoE.

A+

S/D Thief is pretty decent but the only Thief build that is remotely competitive. All other Thief builds are significantly worse.

Guardians – The only thing fundamentally broken about Guardians is their insane survivability, much of which is based on their constant boon-spaming. No class should be able to tank 2-3 enemy players for an extended period of time. Conquests exasperates this issue to an extent.

A

Ranger – Their Evade spam build is pretty strong and probably closer to A+ levels, but in general the class is roughly where it’s supposed to be.

Engineer – This has always felt like something of a wildcard to me. Some Engineer-builds are really powerful, others are not. Seems to depend a lot on the player too.

Mesmer – The rate at which they spawn Illusions is a bit excessive at times but other than that they seem to be ok. Given their utility and class design Mesmers will never really be “weak”.

Elementalist – The past weeks have been a little rough for Eles and you don’t see many in sPvP. I still have a hard time calling them underpowered however given how strong they are in WvW. I think Eles would be fine once Necros and Warriors are brought in line.

B: Most other Thief builds

Dee Jay.2460:

S

Warrior – Their combined durability and ability to constantly AoE stun is overpowered.

Necromancer – Again insane survivability combined with constant fear and a ridiculous amount of conditions being applied AoE.

A+

S/D Thief is pretty decent but the only Thief build that is remotely competitive. All other Thief builds are significantly worse.

Guardians – The only thing fundamentally broken about Guardians is their insane survivability, much of which is based on their constant boon-spaming. No class should be able to tank 2-3 enemy players for an extended period of time. Conquests exasperates this issue to an extent.

A

Ranger – Their Evade spam build is pretty strong and probably closer to A+ levels, but in general the class is roughly where it’s supposed to be.

Engineer – This has always felt like something of a wildcard to me. Some Engineer-builds are really powerful, others are not. Seems to depend a lot on the player too.

Mesmer – The rate at which they spawn Illusions is a bit excessive at times but other than that they seem to be ok. Given their utility and class design Mesmers will never really be “weak”.

Elementalist – The past weeks have been a little rough for Eles and you don’t see many in sPvP. I still have a hard time calling them underpowered however given how strong they are in WvW. I think Eles would be fine once Necros and Warriors are brought in line.

B: Most other Thief builds

First of all, many classes have weak builds and strong builds. Some people are putting Guardians as superior and that because of one role/build bunker. The problem with judging thieves accuarately is that stealth classes always attract a bunch of newbs. When you actually face a skilled thief they are without a doubt superior right now. They do tons of damage, can avoid a lot of damage, and can disengage from fights basically at will. How cant that not be op. To me a thief should be a class that has the advantage initially like the first 10 seconds and then become extremely vulnerable in short order. Right now unless they get stuck in a team fight with loads of aoe flying around or get stuck in uneven fight and people get lucky and cc them long enough to kill them you can’t kill them if they don’t want to die.

S
+Warrior
=Necromancer
=Thief
-Ranger

A
=Guardian

B
+Mesmer
-Engeneer

C
-Elementalist

S
- Ranger (spirit build)
- Thief (sword/dagger)
- Warrior (uses healing signet)

A
+ Necromancer
= Guardian
= Engineer

B
+ Mesmer
+ Elementalist

S
+ Warrior
= Nekro
= Ranger

A
+ Guardian
= Engineer
- Thief

B
+ Mesmer
= Elementalist

all i knows is elementalist is on the last possible tier.

Tier D for Death or downed state.

Tier S:

• Warrior: insane survivability, insane damage, insane stuns, insane condition cleansing. Way over the top.

Tier A:

• Ranger: the spirit build might be annoying because of the amounts of cluttering AI, but overall it is in a reasonable state
• Necro: after the dhuumfire and bleed nerf, the amount of conditions applied isn’t so deathly anymore. They have still their weaknees: being heavy susceptible to stuns and squishy.
• Guardian: always been a must pick for every team
• Mesmer: still strong and well represented
• Engineer: strong point holder with heavy AoE, currently overshadowed by warriors and spirit rangers
• Thief: quite reasonable state. The S/D build might be annoying, but that’s the only one.

Tier B:

• Elementalist: need some work as they are currently forced into an incredibly squishy fresh air burst build

Tier S:
+ Necro- Still stupid godmode tier. The amount of conditions they can stack with little to no risk because it is all AOE ranged is ridiculous. Not to mention the buff to deathshroud where they lose the health slower has been in effect making them quite survivable for a cloth class. (compare this cloth class to the other two and you see what I mean). The dhuumfire nerf was needed and the bleed nerf didn’t really do much.

-Warrior They are only here because of the condition meta and being a decent counter to it. Healing signet is garbage compared to burst classes. If the condition meta gets toned down leaving more room for burst builds warriors and healing signet will see a slight drop off.

Tier A.
+Engineer- Possibly one of the best bunker builds in the game the ability to shrug conditions off at 25% makes them very effective in this meta and they are not running HGH as much anymore because of the sword dagger thieves. They are likely in one of the best places for a class right now.

=Guardian- still a staple on most every team. Can’t face tank a condi meta like engineers. Maybe some of their nerfs were a little too over done….

=Ranger- The spirit nerf was well needed. They may need other buffs right now for build diversity but they are most definitely not the weakest class.

-Thief: With the s/d nerf inc. They could prolly use a little buff to their sustain. The evading wasn’t the annoying thing the fact that LS could do so much for so little was. Other classes have to go into at least a master tree to even remove a boon and thieves got a very spammable boon transfer for almost no cost….

Tier B:
=Mesmer- May only be slightly higher than ele and that is for one reason Portal. Our AOE is garbage unless we take the greatsword. Shatters are still easily dodge able, and our condition removal is garbage the amount of blast finishers we have are on terrible CD’s and otherwise not very useful to the team. The mantra buffs may be cool but anet needs to look at our sustain and map presence and at least get mesmers to tier A.

=Ele- Ele is just right now. They got their healing wrecked their condition application isn’t all that great they have some of the most telegraphed skills in the game (compare churning earth to a terror necros reapers mark.) They need something back in the way of survivability to even be helpful anymore.

All right time for a quick analysis.

It seems that the only 2 classes that are considered to not be useful in some way are Mesmer and Ele. I think as Warrior continues to gain prominence it will reduce the number of condition users on a team to one. This will not only open a slot for Mesmer but it also means that there will be much fewer conditions being thrown around. I don’t feel any major buffs are really needed, Mesmers still have some crazy good builds it’s just that the Condi Meta made them obsolete.

As for Ele, well they were clearly overnerfed. The best thing I feel for them would be giving them the ability to mid Bunker as well as a Guardian. Another role could also be roaming DPS.

Honestly, the game’s balance isn’t all that terrible atm. One class has a chance to become strong again because their main counter is being squashed by the class they counter and the other class needs some buffs or just a toning back of previous nerfs.

S
+ Warrior
= Nekro
= Ranger
- Guardian
- Thief

A
= Engineer

B
+ Mesmer
= Elementalist

Zoutsha.1093:

S
+ Warrior
= Nekro
= Ranger
- Guardian
- Thief

A
= Engineer

B
+ Mesmer
= Elementalist

This is the one

jportell.2197:

Iscariot.4876:

Reasons for my listing is pure representation based. No theory crafting or views on individual abilities, just a real world litmus test of what classes a team will bring when a real consequence to losing exists.

The data I am using comes from the PAX invitational, both the final and the Open qualifier finals for NA and EU, and the ESL Open Finals and Grand Finals. That is a total of 8 teams, each reaching the highest levels of success.

S:
=Ranger
9/8 On the 8 teams being most successful in these tournaments there were 9 Rangers. One team was willing to bring 2 rangers over any other class.

A:
+Guardian
8/8 Every single one of the 8 teams had 1 Guardian. May be closer to S class.

+Necromancer
8/8 with one Necromancer per team. May be closer to S class.

-Thief
6/8 Six of the 8 teams gave a team spot to a thief. With 8 professions and only 5 spots on a team, no profession should expect 100% representation. With 40 total spots over 8 teams, each profession should have 5. The thief may be the only true “A” but I will assign it a – and give the other two A class professions a + to denote the difference.

B:

=Warrior
3/8 Warriors were found on only 3 of the 8 teams. Two of the teams were finalists so Warrior may deserve a +, only more tournaments will show that. Regardless warriors are under-representing since each profession should achieve 5 spots out of 40 or 12.5% representation in top teams.

=Engineer
3/8 Three of the 8 teams had an engineer spot. One of the engineer spots was a finalist team. Engineer may be a – when compared directly in this category with warrior. Finalist spot is a very close distinction, and both are equally under-represented, so both are simply listed as =.

C:
Elementalist
1/8 Only one elementalist found a spot in the top 8. Help these guys. The most under-represented profession at this time.

No mesmer? lol and people are still calling for nerfs on us.

Because we have cloneeessssss man…op cloneeeeessss everywhere. kitten

Like I said before, Mesmers are weak in the condition meta, but as the meta shifts towards something more balanced their inherit weakness to conditions won’t be such a big issue.

Going to say

S:
warrior +( they lack utility, and mobility skills but in a fight is just wrong. majorly broken. And don’t bother defending them as most warriors still aren’t running the correct build.)

necro – ( very powerful needs toned down.)

A:
thief+ ( the perma evade is a bad mechanic. I am glad they got survival but srsly tone it down. Also signet of agility refilling teams endurance is o.p—-fix it!)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Agility

Guardian + ( no other class comes close to team support and survival as guardian. Yes other professions can live longer (engi and warrior) but they bring far far less team utility making it a selfish useless choice)

ranger – ( with the nerf to the spirits, kill them and a good chunk of their damage disappears, but not all of it. Their ability to tank while waiting for spirits to be back up is still very strong. They are fine although maybe include less dodge spam)

Engineer – (Although we have 1 viable role (condi aoe) we can switch out multiple utilities (kits) to meet the fight in a better way. For example elixir gun is better than nades against warriors for the stun break + weakness. We have diversity and it requires higher skill than more other professions to play. Good spot for us.)

B:
Mesmer (not in a good spot, as s/d thief does better unfortunately.)

C:
ele (Cmc does a good job but it is easy to see that other professions do better.)

S: Thief, Warrior, Necro, Ranger
A: Engineer, Guard
C: Mesmer, Ele.

S
+++Necromancer
Guardian (bunker)
A
+Thief
Warrior
-Ranger
B
+Engineer
C
Mesmer
Ele

Reevz.2617:

S
+++Necromancer
Guardian (bunker)
A
+Thief
Warrior
-Ranger
B
+Engineer
C
Mesmer
Ele

+1 to this post

I feel all classes except the Ranger are in the A territory. The reason the Ranger is in the C territory is because I suspect that he may soon be dropped due to the large amounts of AoE soon to be coming his/her way (Engineer/Ele updates).

Zoutsha.1093:

S
+ Warrior
= Nekro
= Ranger
- Guardian
- Thief

A
= Engineer

B
+ Mesmer
= Elementalist

This one strikes me as the most accurate.

Warriors possess good survivability due to healing signet, and regardless of their other weapon, the CC of hammer or mace is very strong.

Necros are no longer the walking nuclear reactors that they were during the summer months, but none the less, still command your attention in a teamfight.

After the shaving of spirits, the ranger meta has become a little less mindless, which is a step in the right direction. However good spirit rangers will still have a place on most teams.

Guardians are still solid bunkers due to survivability and great team support. Not much else to say.

I disagree that thieves can only run S/D. I think (although much harder to play) can hold their own if the person playing knows what hes doing. Either way thieves are useful by just having shadows refuge.

My main class is the engineer. Atm most builds are condition damage builds. A few skilled players can excel with power engi builds but for now i will talk about condi engis. While engineers cannot deal out as much condition damage as necros, we do have much more support and disengage. I believe skilled engineers can will always have a place in the meta just because of the multi-skill nature of the class.

Mesmers have seen a bit of a comeback in the recent months due to warriors countering rangers and necros and less condis being present. They can pull of some nice burst damage and have AoE stealth and portals to help their team.

Elementalists lack builds and survivability. Elementalists feel really pigeon-holed into using cantrips or arcana utilities. All of their best traits are stuck in two lines, and these traits just barely help them compete.

Basically all of the posts go something like;

top: Either thief warrior

bottom; elementalist

I agree, my goodness, eles are in such a bad spot atm :C it makes me want to throw mine down a cliff sometimes, and it is my main, 13xx out of 15xx hours….

Though I guarantee you that if the post about the possible changes on Oct 15 are true, all that eles are getting is higher healing (on a skill that still cant land, and even if it does, not worth 200 healing every 1 second, IF the intended target, the ally, is in melee range of the person you are attacking) or their gimmick Conjures getting buffed…..way to go, they basically want you to go hammer them away full glass cannon without cantrips , and without fixing the inherent issues with eles; the cant go outside water/arcana 40-60 points with cantrips if they want to be more than an innefective kamikaze. But oh well, we all know Anet is really good and fast when it comes to balancing, as showed in GW where it took ages (several years, 2-3) to get some classes going…

S (faceroll)
Necro
Spirit ranger aka petting zoo
S/d thief
Warrior

A
Guard
Engi
Mesmer

B
Ele

Fortus.6175:

Though I guarantee you that if the post about the possible changes on Oct 15 are true, all that eles are getting is higher healing (on a skill that still cant land, and even if it does, not worth 200 healing every 1 second, IF the intended target, the ally, is in melee range of the person you are attacking) or their gimmick Conjures getting buffed…..way to go, they basically want you to go hammer them away full glass cannon without cantrips , and without fixing the inherent issues with eles; the cant go outside water/arcana 40-60 points with cantrips if they want to be more than an innefective kamikaze. But oh well, we all know Anet is really good and fast when it comes to balancing, as showed in GW where it took ages (several years, 2-3) to get some classes going…

just post your tier, no discussion here, let’s keep the thread clear.

Guardian
Necromancer/Warrior
Engineer/ Mesmer/ Thief
Spirit/ Condition Ranger
Elementalist

(Eternity)
Power Ranger trying to use Longbow

S Tier:

- Necro

A Tier:

S/D Perma-dodge Thief (their damage is fine, their defenses are not. Only remotely conterable by AoE condi spam and AI spam, which managed to do damage while the player is kiting away)

CC Healing Signet Warrior (very durable, spams CC and high damage. Unsuspecting Foe needs nerfing, base Healing Signet needs to come down, but get buffed in terms of scaling)

Bunker Guardian (unkillable, passive, provides powerful support)

Engineer (Supply Drop is crazy OP, too much of everything. All kinds of long-sustainable and permanent boons, Invulnerability, crazy sustain, Automated Response, all kinds of spammable condis, AI damage, high CC, blocks, escapes, engages… stealth. You name it, Engie has it)

+ Spirit Ranger (still too easy and too strong, AI does all the work, can rez himself and provides very strong support. Passively, of course)

B Tier:

- Non-CC Warrior w/o Healing Signet (same old Warrior, but Zerker Stance and Cleansing Ire prevent them from falling into C tier in the current meta)

+ P/D Thief (shuts down melee builds, but too predictable, has too little defenses and dies from blind-fire AoE condis. Still, capable of high damage and sustain. Would be A tier if not for lovely Necros and AI co.)

+ Mesmer (will be A Tier with Necros nerfed. AI damage, range, burst, mobility, insane survivability in glass builds through Invulnerability and stealth. Needs to be nerfed in the same patch that nerfs the Necro)

- Elementalist (difficult to play, but capable of huge burst and Bunker-ability; countered by sure-hit Condi spam and AI meta, while having none of its own. Would be B+ or even A if skill floor wasn’t so high)

C Tier:

+ D/D Thief (same as P/D, but doesn’t secure stomps as well and doesn’t hard counter builds that need to actually hit their targets. Huge damage capability and sustain is still there, Would be B Tier, if wasn’t countered by everything)

Thief in any other build (P/P is weak and hard-countered by clutter, which is the name of the game, Condi-spam doesn’t provide nearly enough pressure and exposes you to damage, S/P is slow and doesn’t deal enough damage, plus suffers greatly from lag. Weird builds like double SB are just annoyance, but not real threat)

Power Ranger

+ Roamer/DPS Guardian (almost out of the Peasant Tier, but too squishy and provides zero support when going for any kind of respectable pressure. And even then, the damage isn’t very good)

Spirit Weapon Guardian (deliberately made to be awful by A-net. Weak summons that you need to sink 40 trait points into to make usable. And then they suck. Or they would suck, but they can’t, because they’re dead. They provide no support to speak of, unlike Spirits.)

If i can say my idea…
i want to start wtih a difference between mindless player and skilled player because there is a great difference.

Mindless player
S: warrior, engineer (condition), thief (full zerker)
A: ranger (condition), necromancer
B: mesmer, ranger (power), engineer (power), elementalist (holder), guardian
C: engineer (power), thief (stealth), elementalist (power)

Skilled player
S: warrior ( + ), necromancer (condition), thief (stealth/condition), ranger (spirit), engineer (condition), elementalist (holder)
A: mesmer (phantasm)( + ), ranger (power build)( + ), guardian (holder), engineer (power), elementalist (power)
B: necromancer (power), mesmer (condition), guardian (zerker), ranger (bm)
C: none -with a minimum of skill and a smart party you can do everything-

note: in the “skilled player” list there are more option for the same class (and still few option, like cond and power and holder) because a mindless player only know how to attack while a smart player also know every other particular aspect of a class game-style.

also i want to underline that, if you are talking about hearth of the mists, you experience greatly depends on your team, on your capacity to play with other players and your team’s capacity to do a “team work”… if not, the this top tier list can tell you which team will win but in every other situation every single possible “top tier list” is useless.