SPvP: Everything is not the developer's fault
The current project is the one I want to talk about because this is the one where I am losing patience. I have advertised this tournament nearly everywhere I could (and it will soon appear on HDGW2 as well) and I approached many major teams to sign up. So far I have received entrees from Team Paradigm, Origine Online, and a third lesser known party. Bravo to you, but to the rest of you who outright told me no, you are a shameful example of why the SPvP in this game is suffering. Don’t believe me? Upon asking a top 15 QP leader if his team would be interested, he said no and responded with this (name blocked out of respect).
Wow. You don’t want to participate in a “for-fun” tournament because you are afraid of losing? My tournament was created to be a fun little contest to keep the community alive, but some of the top teams do not want to participate because they are afraid of losing? Well, have fun when real tournaments come around then, because those involve more than one team as well.
The main point of my post here today, is to call out EVERY major team. You all should be doing something to contribute to the community. Whether it be streaming or putting up guides on youtube, or even a written guide if you do not have the technical assets to do the previous two. Something should be done by the leaders of the game, instead of just constant complaining. A perfect example of where this input could help is with new players coming into SPvP from either just buying the game or coming over from PvE. They are going to get their faces stomped in without any help, but guides from other top players would certainly help this, but unfortunately there have been a huge lack of any in the past few months.
I call out to each and every major team (EStars, Onibawan, Super Squad, Chieftain Ninjas, Paradigm, PZ, and so on) to show me that you are a worthy member of this community. From what I have seen, Onibawan, Paradigm, and Super Squad are the ONLY big teams that stream or produce any kind of video content (please link to correct me if I am wrong). Well you can change that and possibly even save this game’s chances of becoming an esport. Sign up for the tournament, or if you are scared of loosing, make a guide! Whether it be written or in video form, you all need to do something to benefit the community, or there won’t be one left when the time comes to play at IPL, MLG, Dreamhack, and so on! I’ll leave it at that, and I would appreciate it if the members of the top teams could respond as well with their own feelings.
Tournament info: http://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/144a7w/announcing_the_team_replika_formerly_tsunami_live/
Closing Apology: I realize that this is probably hurtful to many of the top teams and possibly even offensive, and I will edit the post if valid evidence is given that these teams have made an effort to support the community, but to be honest, I am tired of watching the teams make minimal effort to push this game into the world of esports. This post is intended to cause a storm, because without the input of the major teams, nothing will get accomplished. The “State of the Game” show was a good start, but to be honest I feel it was poorly formatted (2 main thieves and 2 main mesmers is an odd choice of guests when discussing balance to say the least), however that can be discussed in another topic. I once again apologize for any hurt I may have caused the big teams, but as I said, I’m annoyed and I want this game to be better.
I’d like to see more of this stuff. We have a great game, but so many people don’t want to explore it. It’s really sad that I see more posts stating “such and such isn’t viable because…” Instead of people thinking outside the box trying to make such and such work. We really spend more time trying the lower the status quo then trying to push our limits. And if I’m wrong on that account, please share what you’ve been doing. We need more constructive post, this board has been getting quite venomous as of late.
Registered Altaholic
Part-time Kittenposter
Part-time Kittenposter
1. Being the voice of balance is exactly what these forums do. It happens so much that every other post is someone complaining about balance or complaining about someone complaining about balance.
2. I paid $60 dollars… guess how much work I plan on doing. You guessed it… none. I plan on doing no work.
3. The state of sPvP is 100% the ANets issue (for good or for bad). The state of the eSports scene is what you may have meant?
4. League of Legends became an eSport well before replays and other eSport related things came into fruition, largely because of, yup, streaming. My guess as to why it isn’t taking off? Because bunker is boring as hell to watch.
5. Other reasons the community seems largely inactive? Because sPvP boils down to a handful of builds, a handful of team comps, and a handful of strategies, none of which takes a huge amount of digital ink to explain.
Upon asking a top 15 QP leader if his team would be interested, he said no and responded with this (name blocked out of respect).
Wow. You don’t want to participate in a “for-fun” tournament because you are afraid of losing?
Actually his response is fairly logical. The current class balance only favors a very small selection of class/build/comp design. In a smaller arena DM setting this will be emphasized even more (notice how all the top 1vGroup videos come from the same 3 classes showcasing their pwnage while rediculously outnumbered?). There is stagnation because the meta has/is well defined atm and it’s gotten old. Want to play a condi warrior in competitive pvp? Tough kitten bucko, run this or die because the best condi build you can come up with is still kitten. Want to run a burst roaming guardian in competitive pvp? Tough crap chummo because it’s a crap option compared to the other choices for that role, bunker or die son. Etc.
Blackwater Vanguard
Yaks Bend
Yaks Bend
Its up to the devs to make 2 v 2 or 3 v 3 deathmatch content. Some people really like that kind of play others do not. The more game modes the higher the pvp population you can’t force it by messaging players already part of the pvp population they are not the issue its the people that dont like the only pvp game mode (capture/conquest) and stopped doing it that had an impact on the population.
Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer ET
Players do have the tools to encourage growth of viewership and interest in PvP through streams and the like. The problem is conquest isn’t the most exciting mode to watch. Streamer’s can’t very well force their players to be interested, and if they’re not getting enough traffic it’s in their best interest to move onto a game that does.
I applaud your spirit BLU, you really want to keep this game alive. But imo it really is the dev’s fault that PvP is dying. It is Anet’s job to make a game people want to play, and it has to be competitive with all the other games on the market. The community can help, sure, but if they dont help, guess where the blame lies. With the devs. Make it [good] and they will come [back]. It just isnt good enough […yet?… time will tell]
I would just like to even start participating in a Tournament, paid or free, pug game with or without VoIP, don;t really care, but I have over 120 tickets now….and nothing to do with them, because there are NEVER any tournament’s going on in the lobby, (Piken Square Server), still wondering if the server’s are intertwined? EU all servers are connected regarding s/tPvP right?
I never see teams signed up, waiting for the full 8/8 to complete, during hightimes there are fixed teams that run, no chance for me to get a spot.
And hot join is starting to get REALLY REALLY boring…with trolling perma-stealth thieves and glass cannon only builds or unkillable bunkers.
Main is warrior, played thief a while, now checking out the ranger and seeing how he works in PvP…2800 Toughness? still get 3 hit by glass cannons…(we need better armor scaling…)
Edit: The above does not mean I dont know how to dodge or anticipate their attacks, however, spammable glass cannon skills should not be able to get through nearly 3K armor with 3 hits…the ranger is a condition build, warrior is shout heal, glass cannons can do what they like there, he’ll be fine, but still, 2 or 3…gl with that on “bunker” warrior.
Anyways, regarding OP, I agree, I never see anyone trying to even put up a tournament, I have tried, but i’m a pug..so no1 listens.
and please people, saying: Join a PvP guild should NOT be the answer.
we need a Party / Matchmaking system YESTERDAY!
Like a sign up list that you are looking for a tournament team that other’s can browse. Teleporting over all maps, pvp and pve asking people who want’s to start a tourney, is a highly ineffective and discouraging way of getting this going.
wtf…skyham….all is vain
(edited by Obly.9243)
LOL
There are no top teams.
No ladder = no top teams.
1. Being the voice of balance is exactly what these forums do. It happens so much that every other post is someone complaining about balance or complaining about someone complaining about balance.
2. I paid $60 dollars… guess how much work I plan on doing. You guessed it… none. I plan on doing no work.
3. The state of sPvP is 100% the ANets issue (for good or for bad). The state of the eSports scene is what you may have meant?
4. League of Legends became an eSport well before replays and other eSport related things came into fruition, largely because of, yup, streaming. My guess as to why it isn’t taking off? Because bunker is boring as hell to watch.
5. Other reasons the community seems largely inactive? Because sPvP boils down to a handful of builds, a handful of team comps, and a handful of strategies, none of which takes a huge amount of digital ink to explain.
this is what i think every time some user defend anet as if they had their right to 100%
Coming from fighting games, where the japanese developers of arcade games basically have no idea about and don’t care about “esports” at all, the success or failure of a competitive scene in that genre depends entirely on the players.
People travel across the country to participate in tournaments, people organise weekly/monthly events in their local area, inviting top players from overseas. People promote their game in real life, talking to game companies and getting sponsorships etc.
All of this without replays, without streaming (well, recently they have been), without matchmaking, often even without online play. Don’t whine about “not having the tools.”
Of course, the flipside of this is that, maybe GW2 is just not the sort of game to inspire the sort of passionate following that something like fighting games, where some games are still played even after 10+ years.
If that’s true, then it’s ANet’s problem that they need to worry about.
As for balance, it’s pointless to whine and theorycraft on the forums about balance. The best way to demonstrate balance problems to ANet, is to abuse it as much as possible, spread the word so that others can abuse it too, and basically play-to-win as hard as your optimising little soul can handle. This is how games get fixed – by giving real gameplay data to the devs, not empty theory in the forums.
to the rest of you who outright told me no, you are a shameful example of why the SPvP in this game is suffering. Don’t believe me? Upon asking a top 15 QP leader if his team would be interested, he said no and responded with this (name blocked out of respect).
Wow. You don’t want to participate in a “for-fun” tournament because you are afraid of losing?
I appreciate that you are trying to build community, but getting upset about the above comment is being overly sensitive in the extreme. When I read that comment, it seems like the person is being really well natured about it, he even says his team’s mesmer might want to participate. Not only that, but do you not think his response actually highlights one of the reasons why there is no official 1vs1 or 2vs2?
Cheers to you BLU I see way to much complaining with no effort put into the community to better their own experience in sPvP. There are a lot of features we need from ANet to rally thrive and they are working on it but complaining about it all day does nothing. I would love to get into the 2v2 Tourney but I am an NA player.
Spill The Blood <- Join The sPvP Guild
(edited by Thirsty.2875)
people put in work during beta and got kitten in return from anet, so why bother now? they are so slow in getting stuff working (paid tourneys worked in beta then took a month to go live??) and even slower in implementing new features. spvp has seen zero new content since even beta. oh wait we got one new map with them same boring game mode. as a casual player who mainly solo or duo queues and wants to play tournament against others doing the same this game offers nothing for me. and I am the majority.
Sprawl – Necro – Eredon Terrace
(edited by Sprawl.3891)
“How is ArenaNet supposed to make this game an Esport when the playerbase does absolutely nothing to promote it. "
Release a good, complete, game.
If you make it… they will come.
Releasing something, say ‘focused on being an Esport’ yet with none of the basic tools to play it as such, oh and with a terrible meta…. it won’t get far AT ALL.
A community can carry a game for a bit, but I don’t see that alone bringing in the large amounts of people that the game needs to be a shining E-sport comparable in any way to LoL.
What do you expect from them though? There are already TONS of online videos/guides for every class posted somewhere, people looking to look can find a wealth of information about the game as is… enough to easily get their foot in the door.
I can’t really see top tier players throwing out more making a profound impact on the player population. There are dozens of top tier builds floating around, and most do stream so you can’t say they are doing nothing… its at the point where ‘moar guides and videos’ will only do so much. If you take the conversation down to ideals though, then yeah, the community would be boiling with threads about classes/specs and imbalances with top tier players leading it all, but saying ‘for not taking that roll top tier players, you caused a large part of why this game is dying’ is outrageously unfair. It’s not their job, top tier players can play the game insanely well but it doesn’t mean that they are obligated to balance it for the devs and carry their community. Sure, ideally, in a completely altruistic world full of ideals, where Anet met these top tier players with open arms, they would be running this community and balance, there would be streamed player made tournaments every day and the meta would be constantly evolving into something beautiful… but this place is far from that and very unlikely to change.
People are people.
I admire you trying to keep the game alive, its gonna be a tough road to tread.
Best of luck, I hope you succeed though and GW2 does become popular beyond anyone here’s beliefs.
I personally wish it was even half as entertaining as WAR was for me, since even then I would find it worth notable time.. but we don’t all get what we want.
(edited by garethh.3518)
The top teams on EU or NA do literally nothing for the community besides streaming, and I am just sick of it. You guys (should be) the voice of balance and the community in general
As a pvp lvl20 necromancer player, this is absolutely not true.
The game is for everyone, not just a bunch of “top tier gamers”. Just one or two builds per class is used in torneys, then the balance on other builds would be totally forgotten. In teams, Necromancer may be very usefull, but in 8vs8 you can’t stand agains medium skilled eles, warr, guardian, thiefs, mesms on 1vs1, and thats just not fair, totally unbalanced and IT IS UP TO DEV’s.
True balance rests in each class being able to defeat any other on 1v1 and be defeated in 1v2
Forums have TONS of info about ppl perception how good/bad their classes are. TONS of bugs reports no one read or take care about.
To the op a quick life lesson. When a professional sports team(nba,nfl,mlb) or any other are playing bad. Who is the first guy to get fired?The coach!When a huge company is not doing good and are not hitting the projected marks.Who is the first guy to get fired?The CEO! Point being this is 100% Anet fault no matter what you day.
When the developers tells you pvp is not were they want it to be and it was kitten at launch because pve department was done.What makes you think people want to stick around and promote the game if its not even ready..Why waste rime when we dont have ladders or rankings.
I hear an endless amount of general kittening day in and day out that “x is the devs fault, and they are ruining this game” and “theres no players, devs this is entirely your fault” Well thats not true at all. Devs are only a small portion of why people are laughing at this game’s SPvP atm. Where the kitten is the community at? Literally no one has attempted to do anything! The top teams on EU or NA do literally nothing for the community besides streaming, and I am just sick of it. You guys (should be) the voice of balance and the community in general, but instead you sit in a corner and whine about X and Y being put into the game without putting out guides or even tips to your own stuff. How is ArenaNet supposed to make this game an Esport when the playerbase does absolutely nothing to promote it. And it is in absolute load of Bull kitten that “we don’t have the tools to do it.” Guides, 1v1 tournaments, 2v2 tournaments, Blogs, Streaming, Webshows, Casting, the list goes on of what you can do! Before anyone begins calling me out for not doing anything, let me state everything I have done since prelaunch in addition to going to school, working a part time job, and putting in 20+ hours a week to my team.
- Comprehensive Ranger Guide for Launch: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/48253-blus-ranger-guide-for-new-and-experienced-rangers/
- Comprehensive Engineer Guide (never got around to part 2 due to team issues): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fmdAIY0kw
- Hours of streaming answering questions and trying to help anyone I could that was watching me: http://www.twitch.tv/blu42
- Replika 2v2 Tournament (current project)
You’re absolutely right, non-former GW players are the fault for influencing the devs to create the game this way. In PvP Anet has taken RPGs back 10 years. Literally.
The point I was trying to make through the linked quote was that the teams complain about there not being any support of an esport (like tournaments), but when one comes along people (like the one linked) pass it off essentially contradicting their own priorities for this game
The point I was trying to make through the linked quote was that the teams complain about there not being any support of an esport (like tournaments), but when one comes along people (like the one linked) pass it off essentially contradicting their own priorities for this game
Right a tournament in a open game where many people WILL come and disrupt the tourny and will most likely be a huge pain to finish. NTY
The point I was trying to make through the linked quote was that the teams complain about there not being any support of an esport (like tournaments), but when one comes along people (like the one linked) pass it off essentially contradicting their own priorities for this game
Right a tournament in a open game where many people WILL come and disrupt the tourny and will most likely be a huge pain to finish. NTY
16 participants, it would not be hard to get 8 of them to come into the same room at once. Please read all the content of my post before worthlessly putting it down
The point I was trying to make through the linked quote was that the teams complain about there not being any support of an esport (like tournaments), but when one comes along people (like the one linked) pass it off essentially contradicting their own priorities for this game
Right a tournament in a open game where many people WILL come and disrupt the tourny and will most likely be a huge pain to finish. NTY
16 participants, it would not be hard to get 8 of them to come into the same room at once. Please read all the content of my post before worthlessly putting it down
tl;dr paid money for a game w/ no customization of maps, game modes, no ladder, nor a way to private skirmish. O look at that dota 2 is in open beta w. all of that have a nice day.
The point I was trying to make through the linked quote was that the teams complain about there not being any support of an esport (like tournaments), but when one comes along people (like the one linked) pass it off essentially contradicting their own priorities for this game
Look, I think its cool you tried to put together a tournament but lets not act like your tournament was “serious”. The teams practice playing 5v5 conquest and have focused their builds and play style around that, you created a 2v2 death match tournament. While I think its a fun idea I don’t think you can expect all players to have an interest in it when it is such a different game mode than conquest and then judge the community based on their interest in your tournament.
@Suzu
What are you talking about?
@Seether
I understand but I am referring to a lot more than just the lack of interest for the tournament. Very little streaming and almost no youtube content is also a factor in this argument as well
What exactly would any of this accomplish? Basically nothing has changed since launch; extreme lack of viable builds within the metagame, and it’s forced by the gametype.
Absolutely nothing the players do at this moment will change anything. It’s ALL on the developers.
Obviously the majority of people DON’T want to play Conquest, or watch it either.
3v3 on the other hand; I think that would be kittening amazing in this game!!!1
@Suzu
What are you talking about?
@Seether
I understand but I am referring to a lot more than just the lack of interest for the tournament. Very little streaming and almost no youtube content is also a factor in this argument as well
Was saying it is all the devs fault why should we the CUSTOMERS make these tournies and such, if there is absolutely NO internal support to make these types of games in a 2012 game? lmao
“edit”: An E-sport Ready game as Anet proclaimed ! lol
What exactly would any of this accomplish? Basically nothing has changed since launch; extreme lack of viable builds within the metagame, and it’s forced by the gametype.
Absolutely nothing the players do at this moment will change anything. It’s ALL on the developers.
Obviously the majority of people DON’T want to play Conquest, or watch it either.
3v3 on the other hand; I think that would be kittening amazing in this game!!!1
At the very least, the content from people would help to spur some of the WvW or PvE population into playing SPvP
@Seether
I understand but I am referring to a lot more than just the lack of interest for the tournament. Very little streaming and almost no youtube content is also a factor in this argument as well
There’s no youtube content because ArenaNet decided at release to not allow people to monetize gw2 videos unless they were for an established video game site. While I don’t know how much of an incentive the money aspect was for some to create videos I would expect there would be more video guides being published on youtube if monetization was allowed.
As for the streaming, I know you are on EU so its different but on I was spending the vast majority of my time streaming sitting in the mists waiting for queues or just waiting in between matches. This is boring for people like myself who have only 1 monitor and don’t want to bother streamers with random web surfing and boring for viewers who are spending most of their time watching someone stand around and wait.