Guild Wars 2

Have you noticed the state of forums:
More than half of forum discussions are cries for nerfs/buffs, in other words whining about class balance. Fortunately this is fixable, it just needs design of good balancing system (I can do that and post it on forum if ANET is incapable to do so (apparently so since they fumble so much about it) ).
The majority of the rest of forum discussions are people (justifiably) complaining about anet forcing us into the game modes that are not fun and that we do not want to play. By this I mean primarily these:
1. Forcing us to make 5-player team and not allowing us to play in smaller teams or solo (1v1 que). Who has time to dedicate himself to fixed daily schedules or to collect 5 ppl to go play a game? What are casuals supposed to do?
2. Forcing us to play capture the point boring mode (how about some death-match or whatever else players decide is fun; stop telling us how to have fun, just do your job and provide the infrastructure, let us decide what is fun).
3. Lack of meaningful rankings that are essential part of bringing balance to classes.

ANET needs to stop deciding for players what is fun and what is not. They need to provide proper infrastructure (many game modes and many group sizes) and let players decide what they want to play (what is fun and what is not fun).

Every MMO forum is like this.

They 100% need to hire a PvP community manager. Not in the sense of a forum mod but a developer that caters to the general needs of a pvp community. Reward systems, integration, progression, how fun certain builds are, etc. The current team’s focus is completely on the competitive side of things with many of these areas being completely forgotten about.

Raytek, it does not have to be….
All you need to stop talk about balance is ‘objective measure of balance’, which I already described elsewhere.
It is stupid to claim that class is overpowered or underpowered in certain ‘setting’ (let us say 1v1 deathmatch, or 5v5 point capture) if that class has fair statistical representation in the top 100 and top 500 rankings for given ‘setting’.
Just because designers of MMO games are sadly incapable of designing good “balancing system” does not mean it should be like that. I will design a system and post it on forum. Then they can adapt it or do whatever they want.
This game has good potential, infrastructure is abysmal.

Still confused as to why people are complaining so much about balance. The great thing about GW2 is that you don’t need to grind a character to the level cap to PvP with them. Just make a character with a profession that is currently functioning well, play through the 5 minute intro, and you are good to go. If someone wants to make a well thought out post with suggestions on how to improve the game, that’s great, but right now, it’s usually the same repetitive solutions if any are given at all. I remember seeing a post a while back where someone actually made a top-down blueprint of an entire PvP map and explained how it worked. There are several threads spread throughout the class forums with inventive builds and a lot of effort explaining how it can add viability to their favorite class. I’d really like to see more creative posts like these.

Quick Note:
The last thread I read addressing issues with a thief actually suggested that making backstab have a huge annoying animation was an acceptable fix. Threads like these are polluting the forums and really, really need to stop.

Geewoody.2017:

Still confused as to why people are complaining so much about balance. The great thing about GW2 is that you don’t need to grind a character to the level cap to PvP with them. Just make a character with a profession that is currently functioning well, play through the 5 minute intro, and you are good to go. If someone wants to make a well thought out post with suggestions on how to improve the game, that’s great, but right now, it’s usually the same repetitive solutions if any are given at all. I remember seeing a post a while back where someone actually made a top-down blueprint of an entire PvP map and explained how it worked. There are several threads spread throughout the class forums with inventive builds and a lot of effort explaining how it can add viability to their favorite class. I’d really like to see more creative posts like these.

Quick Note:
The last thread I read addressing issues with a thief actually suggested that making backstab have a huge annoying animation was an acceptable fix. Threads like these are polluting the forums and really, really need to stop.

backstab having a huge tell is irrelevant since the skill is performed from stealth so u wont see the tell anyway

Geewoody.2017:

Still confused as to why people are complaining so much about balance. The great thing about GW2 is that you don’t need to grind a character to the level cap to PvP with them. Just make a character with a profession that is currently functioning well, play through the 5 minute intro, and you are good to go. If someone wants to make a well thought out post with suggestions on how to improve the game, that’s great, but right now, it’s usually the same repetitive solutions if any are given at all. I remember seeing a post a while back where someone actually made a top-down blueprint of an entire PvP map and explained how it worked. There are several threads spread throughout the class forums with inventive builds and a lot of effort explaining how it can add viability to their favorite class. I’d really like to see more creative posts like these.

Quick Note:
The last thread I read addressing issues with a thief actually suggested that making backstab have a huge annoying animation was an acceptable fix. Threads like these are polluting the forums and really, really need to stop.

Apparently you do not understand few points:
1. Playing class very well requires practice (with that class and actually specific build of that class). So why be forced to retrain?
2. We need diversity in classes, if all of us jump on FOTM all the time the game will be boring. Thus imbalance is not good for the game.
3. There are many builds that are subpar, you can experiment with them but not really do very well in serious fight.
4. Backstab already has huge ‘tells’: It is either done from combo that turns you into stone (to which you should stunbreak/dodge before backstab hits), OR it is done after thief stealths in front of your eyes, in the case of which you need to develop movement/dodging patterns that prevent thief from getting behind your back to land it.

You can’t have an E-sport unless it’s fun. You can make it fun without having to make it an E-sport.

We know you’ve put a lot of work into sPvP to make it an E-sport, but sometimes you have to admit what is fun and what isn’t, and rethink things from the ground up.

People find duels to be fun. People find playing causally with 1-2 friends to be fun. People find other gametypes like capture the flag to be fun.

GW1 PvP wasn’t fun to people because it was built to be an E-sport, people had fun because it was built to be fun. Were Starcraft and LoL created entirely with E-sports in mind? Nope, they were primarily made to be fun. They had the correct formats to become E-sports, but it all starts with fun and grows from there.

Raytek.6193:

Every MMO forum is like this.

Nail on the head.

It sucks, but there’s not a lot you can do about it. People don’t generally go on the forums to say “OMG I just had the most fun tournament game ever!! love this game!!” because we’re going to keep playing instead.

Or maybe we should start making threads like these?

Maybe makers of MMOs should communicate better how they intend to achieve balance….it is something people expect by default when they come to the game. If you advertise 8 classes, please do not make half of them so sub par so that they are severely under-represented in the top lvl pvp.

If ANET for example clearly defines:
1. What it means for class to be balanced.
2. How they objectively measure where the class is with respect to balanced point.
3. How the balancing system works (control) (once they objectively measure where the class is, how they intend to bring it to balanced point if it is not there).

Keep in mind that, even if game was balanced, people would complain if you do not clearly communicate #1 and #2 to them.

So , Follidus, given my post just above, I think that there is a lot to be done about it.

If you for example:
1. Define class balance to mean: That class has ‘fair’ representation in top level rankings (let us say top 100 and top 500) for given setting (for example 1v1 deathmatch setting). So if there are 8 classes you should see approximately 20-ish members of each class in in top 160 players. (I mean true rankings, something akin to chess ranking system; skill, not grind, based)
2. Objective mesure then naturally becomes the representation of class in top rankings.

Then if mesmer comes complaining about warrior 100b in 1v1 deathmatch setting demanding nerf for warriors, you tell him:
Look, there are 30 mesmers in top 160 players (1v1 deathmatch), and only 12 warriors…so your class is actually much stronger than warrior obectively looking; the nerf is coming to your class and warriors will actually get a buff. So stop complaining and L2P, msg top players of your class in-game and ask for an advice. Yes…it is that easy to stop all this forum nonsense when you have proper infrastructure in place….(….you are welcome ANET….)

Raytek.6193:

Every MMO forum is like this.

Actually not every mmo. Only mmo’s who failed to live up to its potential and guess what? For the most part those games are dead. Go figure!!

Most of the people complaining in this forums are pretty similar.
1. Rankings and ladders
2. Needs more game modes(TDM/Arenas being the most asked for)
3. Balancing needs to be done better

It’s 2013 gaming has changed. Its more mainstream. Yet this game is lacking the basics that keeps players from staying. They have the right to complain!

Raytek.6193:

Every MMO forum is like this.

Except Firefall’s. That is actually a pretty mature community. Probably because all the nimrods haven’t migrated there yet.