Guild Wars 2

Now, it’s obvious the devs are trying to deal with some imbalances that Haste creates. However, this is not the way to do it. By simply nerfing the global haste ability, you are ignoring the millions of other problems this creates, not just for one class (cough, warrior), but for several. It’s kind of like shoving dirty under a carpet, except in this case the dirt is a huge, basketball sized, hardened carapace of a dead kittenroach that can clearly be seen from a mile away.

I am sorry, Anet, but I am deeply, deeply, immensely confused by what thought process went through your mind(s) in order to implement these “balance” changes… I’m sure alot of the community is.

Personally, I liked running with a warrior before, because it suited the way I liked to the play the game, however I always felt as though it was a sort of “crutch” because it was a low-niche class (meaning it didn’t fill enough roles in a team). Now, not only will it be low-niche, but it will be bad at delivering within the small niche it is encrusted in.

Please re-think what you’ve done.
Thank you.

No. The way A-net works what you propose would leave bad game mechanics in forever at the pace A-net works. Lets get rid of problematic game mechanics pronto and then deal with aftermath. There is no perfect way to way to balance things.

Haste needed a nerf from the beginning. But it should have come with “bunker nerfs” at the same time…

no to haste nerf.

I disagree that bunkers need a nerf. It’s a part of the design of the game and is what Anet originally wanted. Bunkers have already been considerably nerfed (especially Guardians)…

I also think burst is very healthy for a game of this kind because it creates a higher skillcap for reasons I have already stated.

I played pistol whip thief since release and its now absolutely unviable, thanks Anet for ruining the build i enjoy.

yes to haste nerf

Its a double nerf.
1st because of the direct from 100% to 50%

secondly by extending the duration of haste skills you extend the duration of there debuff.
This essentially kills 100b warriors.

What i recommend is they simply MUST reduce the negative effects of the debuff. ADjust frenzy damage debuff to 25%. Adjust thief haste to only take off 50% of endurance and stop regenation for 2 seconds.
Adjust no healing to 50% healing debuff.

otherwise youve nerfed it 2×. YOu will have done in warriors who RELY on short quick haste to be effective.

I play PW thief.
People need to get real. Quickness itself needed a nerf, it was outrageous.
It was a bandaid fix to relatively poor weaponsets and the fact we even accepted this speaks poorly on ourselves. From day flippin 1, Quickness should have been nerfed and the sets that rely on it should’ve been adjusted to compensate instead having this bandaid effect to make up for things.

Anet certainly has the ability to naturally
a) increase the speed of certain skills.
b) increase their damage
c) give them additional effects.
I see no reason why they should leave a broken mechanic from now until-the-end-of-time.

Instead of asking for the bandaid, should tell them to heal the wound.

The warrior with quickness certainly wasn’t overbearing in the slight (I didn’t have an issue with it, nor did basically everyone past rank 20) but if we’re being serious here, Quickness could not remain in it’s previous state.

If Anet really cares they have some quick buff hot-fixes they can do within the next week or two, to quick fix some sets. They can revert some Tactical Strike & PW nerfs and we can all be happy.

What i recommend is they simply MUST reduce the negative effects of the debuff. ADjust frenzy damage debuff to 25%. Adjust thief haste to only take off 50% of endurance and stop regenation for 2 seconds.
Adjust no healing to 50% healing debuff.

Agree with day on this, generally.

i say YES to the haste nerf, but they NEED to add something for warrior to compensate.
we’re already the worst profession, HB frenzy was our one trick pony, now we’re just the class that can’t do anything better than others.
there is no reason to play my favourite class now, whatever you want to achieve another class will do better.

i say “we’ll see” and “it’s probably fine”

Liewec.2896:

i say YES to the haste nerf, but they NEED to add something for warrior to compensate.
we’re already the worst profession, HB frenzy was our one trick pony, now we’re just the class that can’t do anything better than others.
there is no reason to play my favourite class now, whatever you want to achieve another class will do better.

Frenzy should only be 25% extra damage now, not 50%

I say YES.

No class should be able to burst people from 100 to 0 and Quickness (not Frenzy itself) makes that possible, it’s not fun, rewarding or skill dependant, just lame.

That being said, both warriors and thieves need more sustainability.

Quickness should have been nerfed a LONG TIME AGO, before many professions got they’re dmg nerfed because of it…

The SAD thing is these professions that got nerfs because og Quickness didn’t get they’re abilities back as they were…

I think its probably a good change with a few more adjustments to the negative affects. People wouldn’t be so mad about it if they nerfed some of the defensive capabilities of others though. (aka ele’s)

After playing around with new haste I don’t like it at all. Warrior is not the same. Bring back the old haste!

ensoriki.5789:

I play PW thief.
People need to get real. Quickness itself needed a nerf, it was outrageous.
It was a bandaid fix to relatively poor weaponsets and the fact we even accepted this speaks poorly on ourselves. From day flippin 1, Quickness should have been nerfed and the sets that rely on it should’ve been adjusted to compensate instead having this bandaid effect to make up for things.

Anet certainly has the ability to naturally
a) increase the speed of certain skills.
b) increase their damage
c) give them additional effects.
I see no reason why they should leave a broken mechanic from now until-the-end-of-time.

Instead of asking for the bandaid, should tell them to heal the wound.

The warrior with quickness certainly wasn’t overbearing in the slight (I didn’t have an issue with it, nor did basically everyone past rank 20) but if we’re being serious here, Quickness could not remain in it’s previous state.

If Anet really cares they have some quick buff hot-fixes they can do within the next week or two, to quick fix some sets. They can revert some Tactical Strike & PW nerfs and we can all be happy.

What i recommend is they simply MUST reduce the negative effects of the debuff. ADjust frenzy damage debuff to 25%. Adjust thief haste to only take off 50% of endurance and stop regenation for 2 seconds.
Adjust no healing to 50% healing debuff.

Agree with day on this, generally.

i’ll be content and happy if they do this but i’m bleeding out without my bandaid.

Global quickness nerf means they can tone up individual skills/weapons that need it without huge backlash while at the same time toning down key bunker skills. This game needs to be about avoiding damage, not stunbreaking every time somebody pops quickness on you.

I don’t get it….. I’ve seen so many Threads about how Quickness is supposed to be OP, but I never got it.

I get that It’s maybe too good that a Ranger has such an easy time to get Quickness, but in competetive play, I’ve used my Quickness almost solely to speed-rez or speed-stomp.

On the Warrior, I don’t get the Nerf one bit: The War has by far the biggest Drawback and he has no way of Reducing the CD on Frenzy. Also, the War has no Invis and his Gap-Closers are easy to dodge. Ergo: If you got spiked down by a Warrior on Frenzy, you are either bad, had bad luck with your Stunbreakers not being ready or the opposing team played well together – in all these circumstances, getting killed by the War is totally acceptable and not imbalanced in any way.

On the Engi, no1 used the Quickness anyways and besides some weird bugs on the Thief, Quickness was fine on them as well, because the Thief needed to sacrifice yet another “getaway-skill” for it.

To me, this looks like a balance-change completely geared towards lowlevel-players. I don’t hate it, but I don’t understand it.

Also, the War got some nice Buffs on the Banners, maybe this will make him more useful. I never was a fan of Frenzy on War anyways and I either used completely different builds than 100b, or I used Immobilizes (Sword F1 or Bola) rather than Frenzy.

I don’t think it’ll strenghten Bunker-builds more either, because against Guard, you use Conditions and against Bunker-Ele, nothing comes even close to Thief+Mesmer.

PowerBottom.5796:

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I don’t get it….. I’ve seen so many Threads about how Quickness is supposed to be OP, but I never got it.

I get that It’s maybe too good that a Ranger has such an easy time to get Quickness, but in competetive play, I’ve used my Quickness almost solely to speed-rez or speed-stomp.

On the Warrior, I don’t get the Nerf one bit: The War has by far the biggest Drawback and he has no way of Reducing the CD on Frenzy. Also, the War has no Invis and his Gap-Closers are easy to dodge. Ergo: If you got spiked down by a Warrior on Frenzy, you are either bad, had bad luck with your Stunbreakers not being ready or the opposing team played well together – in all these circumstances, getting killed by the War is totally acceptable and not imbalanced in any way.

On the Engi, no1 used the Quickness anyways and besides some weird bugs on the Thief, Quickness was fine on them as well, because the Thief needed to sacrifice yet another “getaway-skill” for it.

To me, this looks like a balance-change completely geared towards lowlevel-players. I don’t hate it, but I don’t understand it.

Also, the War got some nice Buffs on the Banners, maybe this will make him more useful. I never was a fan of Frenzy on War anyways and I either used completely different builds than 100b, or I used Immobilizes (Sword F1 or Bola) rather than Frenzy.

I don’t think it’ll strenghten Bunker-builds more either, because against Guard, you use Conditions and against Bunker-Ele, nothing comes even close to Thief+Mesmer.

The problem is a lack of foresight. Anet knew that quickness was hampering their ability to balance weapons/skills, so they decided to tone it down. However, they failed to take into account the immediate negative repercussions (which would have been quite obvious to many people in the pvp community), leaving us in a rather awkward state where bunkers are now stronger than they’ve been in quite a while. And it certainly did indirectly buff bunkers; they now have much less worry about being picked off by instagib damage when they would have otherwise been much more vulnerable to it.

i owul prefer a little improvement to skills atk speed itsselves and remove quickness completely.
so warriors would give more importance to immobilizes, cripple and stuns. thieves give more importance to hit and run (pw build i mean) and the game could be more dps/balanced style instead of burst style.

Warriors were already the worst class and relied the most on quickness, this is just cruel and unusual punishment.

Long live our bunker overlords?

Whoever thinks haste didn’t need to be nerfed should really refrain from ever voicing their opinions on balance from this point forward.

Haste should have been removed altogether, but let’s see how this pans out.

Haste nerf a bad thing?.. LOL

Haste nerf needed to happen, but the fact is ITS A DOUBLE NERF. Reduce the cost debuff effects to compensate for the reduced haste effect.

If there is nothing that anet does to compensate for the longer debuff, then this will be one of the worst nerfs by far. As a thief, using haste meant you were prepared to die because fighting with no endurance is not safe at all, you are a sitting duck unless you had a get-away skill to use. Grant a positive effect that compensates for the lower dmg and longer debuff and then this update will be considered fair.

As a thief with haste, it meant that in the 2 seconds of basilisk venom, I’d pretty much kill any glass cannon with autoattacks alone. I never had to press a single button.

Defending that is insane.

Med.6150:

As a thief with haste, it meant that in the 2 seconds of basilisk venom, I’d pretty much kill any glass cannon with autoattacks alone. I never had to press a single button.

Defending that is insane.

Not that I’m defending Haste, but its “insane” to defend you using
- an elite
and
-a utility
against a
-low hp
-paper armor wearing glass cannon
-without its stunbreak up
while you’re playing
-the burstiest class in the game.

That’s an awful lot of qualifiers.

Haste probably needed a nerf (and the classes that use haste needed some compensation for it, tooled for damaging bunkers and being less effective against non-bunkers), but your example is a poor one.

daydream.2938:

Liewec.2896:

i say YES to the haste nerf, but they NEED to add something for warrior to compensate.
we’re already the worst profession, HB frenzy was our one trick pony, now we’re just the class that can’t do anything better than others.
there is no reason to play my favourite class now, whatever you want to achieve another class will do better.

Frenzy should only be 25% extra damage now, not 50%

that’s hardly compensation.
look at the other classes with quickness: mesmer, ranger, thief, all have builds that they can fall back on, frenzy>100b was warriors only serious competitive build, now your enemy will just step backwards while you’re slooooooowly swinging your sword.
yes the quickness nerf had to happen, but they did’nt do a thing to make warriors viable now.
as i said before, now there truely is nothing that warriors are best at, whatever your goal there is a better class than warrior.

evilapprentice.6379:

Not that I’m defending Haste, but its “insane” to defend you using
- an elite
and
-a utility
against a
-low hp
-paper armor wearing glass cannon
-without its stunbreak up
while you’re playing
-the burstiest class in the game.

That’s an awful lot of qualifiers.

Haste probably needed a nerf (and the classes that use haste needed some compensation for it, tooled for damaging bunkers and being less effective against non-bunkers), but your example is a poor one.

This was not an example to show how awesome a thief can be by applying these elaborate tactics or to encourage somebody to find a counter, so please refrain from analyzing every single ability used in the context in order to paint a different picture of what I am saying or just for the sake of arguing.

Here are the basics, which you should be taking away from what I posted above:

I press a button, I proceed to stand next to a guy that is full HPs and 2 seconds later he’s dead. I just killed somebody by standing next to them for 2 seconds. If you think that’s fine (which you obviously don’t, as you actually agree that haste needed to be nerfed), then, well, I don’t know .

I don’t need the Basilisk Venom (call that elite, if you wish, fact is I can make somebody stand still or in melee range of my toon for 2 seconds by using vast amount of skills that are not elites).

Med.6150:

evilapprentice.6379:

Not that I’m defending Haste, but its “insane” to defend you using
- an elite
and
-a utility
against a
-low hp
-paper armor wearing glass cannon
-without its stunbreak up
while you’re playing
-the burstiest class in the game.

That’s an awful lot of qualifiers.

Haste probably needed a nerf (and the classes that use haste needed some compensation for it, tooled for damaging bunkers and being less effective against non-bunkers), but your example is a poor one.

This was not an example to show how awesome a thief can be by applying these elaborate tactics or to encourage somebody to find a counter, so please refrain from analyzing every single ability used in the context in order to paint a different picture of what I am saying or just for the sake of arguing.

Here are the basics, which you should be taking away from what I posted above:

I press a button, I proceed to stand next to a guy that is full HPs and 2 seconds later he’s dead. I just killed somebody by standing next to them for 2 seconds. If you think that’s fine (which you obviously don’t, as you actually agree that haste needed to be nerfed), then, well, I don’t know .

I don’t need the Basilisk Venom (call that elite, if you wish, fact is I can make somebody stand still or in melee range of my toon for 2 seconds by using vast amount of skills that are not elites).

Without context, your example is misleading. “Killing someone in 2 seconds” is way different than “Killing someone running a GC spec with your GC spec’d thief (remeber, king of burst damage) using a skill that enhances burst damage by 100% while he sits there and takes it despite having a plethora of skills at his disposal to avoid it.”

Killing a low hp low armor target who stands still is really, really easy – Haste isn’t even required in your scenario, it just makes it trivial.

I’m actually happy Haste got a nerf – but again, haste was a necessary evil to keep bunkers from being nigh invincible (in a “winning the game” sort of sense, not a “they absolutely can’t be killed” sense). A reduction to haste should have been accompanied with the addition of a bunker-busting toolset for said classes.

I’m not mourning the loss of haste, I’m mourning the inadvertent (and quite plain to see) buff to bunkers that the haste change has put into effect. I honestly would have preferred haste to exists as it did pre-patch for another month or 2, and only change when they were ready to roll out additional changes to shore up the loss of burst dps.

My poor Hmann.

it was/is a bad game mechanic, be glad it’s not gone completely bro!

Haste needed this nerf and it was called back during the beta weekends, everyone knew it was OP and now ArenaNet finally saw the light and put a stop to this meth bubble/100b/HS/Zephyr madness.

They are doing it right, so NO to this topic.

Something like haste (increased attack speed) worked fine in guild wars 1, this is because the foundation of that game was fine.

Frenzy exists in guildwars 1 and if there was forums, absolutely no one would have complained about it, no one.

If you make a skill that kind of relies on haste, then it is only going to be viable with it, that alone is a no no when you have skill set restrictions. Nothing in guildwars 1 needed ias to be viable really like people complain 100b does.

It should be there to boost what you already have, not there to make it viable.

Zodian.6597:

it was/is a bad game mechanic, be glad it’s not gone completely bro!

Of course it was a bad mechanic, but entire skillsets are balanced around it even existing, which means the entire system is completely out of wack right now.

I was playing a quickness warrior in full berserkers gear, focused 100% on damage and zero survivability, just for the heck of it.

I could destroy a class in heavy armor before they could even load me into their client. I welcome the quickness nerf, it opens peoples minds to exploration. Every build was too focused on it, I remade my build the other day completely and took quickness out of the equation, and I haven’t looked back yet.

Believe it or not, There are other more than viable options!

haste nerf ok, but you killin thief anet, not fun to play no more, stealth also, what is next?
nerf signets? warriors are dead, thief is next, not happy…

numri.7081:

I was playing a quickness warrior in full berserkers gear, focused 100% on damage and zero survivability, just for the heck of it.

I could destroy a class in heavy armor before they could even load me into their client. I welcome the quickness nerf, it opens peoples minds to exploration. Every build was too focused on it, I remade my build the other day completely and took quickness out of the equation, and I haven’t looked back yet.

Believe it or not, There are other more than viable options!

If you were destroying people in “heavy” armor (which doesn’t mean they’re bunker) that quickly, then they were bad. Running around zerging people in hotjoins does not account for the viability or none-viability of a spec or class.

Well, my main point wasn’t that quickness was broken. It limited peoples minds. And with limited minds we would never have seen any IWAY, no Spiritualists, no Ancestors rage bomb in Guild Wars 1.

Meta-game is a beautiful thing.

Ok so things to think about.

Thing A: ‘they nerfed 100db war’ is a misleading statement. They nerfed all viable dps warrior builds I am aware of (working on alternatives now).

Thing B: ANet has created a problem with warriors I’m not sure how to fix, however a fix is urgently needed. Slapping 25% damage taken onto the debuff probably won’t be much use as dps is much more important during that critical burst stage.

Thing C: Although I’m sure some devs are aware, it’s important to note that some of the people complaining about this issue are not low tier players. If you look above this post you’ll see posts by davinci, qt vain etc. This is not the normal post nerf BS which permeates these forums. It’s genuinely problematic.

Say YES to haste nerf.
TY BB.

No no, you all wanted your TW nerf. Here you go.

Haste nerf was a GOOD thing. The issue people have is with the disparate impact that said haste nerf has had. Namely to the warrior- a class that was struggling already.

daydream.2938:

Haste nerf was a GOOD thing. The issue people have is with the disparate impact that said haste nerf has had. Namely to the warrior- a class that was struggling already.

It’s completely killed ranger burst as well. (Not necessarily ranger sustain) Thieves have suffered a tad but I’ve seen them managing with signet instead.