Guild Wars 2

Engineer Hammer skills 2-5 have Strong Base Damage and Coefficients and Strong Defensive Capacities.

Electro Whirl:
Damage (x2): 888 – 2.2 Power Coefficient
Defense: Reflect Missiles

Rocket Charge:
Damage (x3) 1,212 – 3.0 Power Coefficient
Defense: Evade 1s

Shock Shield:
Damage (x5) 1,010 – 2.5 Power Coefficient
Defense: Block 2s

Thunder Clap Does High Damage and Stuns for 1 Second.
Damage (x6) 1,452 – 3.6 Power Coefficient
Defense: Stun 1s

Compared to All other Melee Classes:
-Engineer has Superior Base Damage
-Engineer has Superior Power Coefficients
-Engineer has Superior Defense

Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.

no worries every one complains about necro..they can t see how broken it s scrapper.

Now thief spoke… Scrapper get some hits in his survival abilities, now you want nerf him more.. Look you have weapon swap, we not. Some kits like nade, bomb kit are useless without trait. (Or very less effective)

Meaby don’t cry, and learn how to counter him. I hate hammer and with core engi I never have problem defeat him.

And remember: ppl love running hammer in open world, this is thing of anet to separate few skills between pvp and pve.

Gunna have to wait a few months, OP.

Storms Fury.9307:

Engineer Hammer skills 2-5 have Strong Base Damage and Coefficients and Strong Defensive Capacities.

Electro Whirl:
Damage (x2): 888 – 2.2 Power Coefficient
Defense: Reflect Missiles

Rocket Charge:
Damage (x3) 1,212 – 3.0 Power Coefficient
Defense: Evade 1s

Shock Shield:
Damage (x5) 1,010 – 2.5 Power Coefficient
Defense: Block 2s

Thunder Clap Does High Damage and Stuns for 1 Second.
Damage (x6) 1,452 – 3.6 Power Coefficient
Defense: Stun 1s

Compared to All other Melee Classes:
-Engineer has Superior Base Damage
-Engineer has Superior Power Coefficients
-Engineer has Superior Defense

Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.

how about you actually read the skills for once
because you’d notice they are all channeled and that is why they have such high base coefficients .

electro whirl = 1.1×2

rocket charge = 1×3

shock shield = 0.5×5

thunderclap = 0.6×6 Stun on impact not pulses

think about it backstab from the back has 2.4 scaling yet lands up to 8k in a single hit yet you dont see thunderclap hit for 12k per pulse nor does the flamethrower hit for 9k per tick of its 10 hit auto attack

Everyone is missing the point.

Every single scrapper skill (except auto attack) has good Offense AND Defense.

The point is not every skill should have both.

Do you see (melee specs) Warrior, Guardian, Necro, Thief, Revenant have EACH skill (aside from auto) have BOTH Good Offensive AND Defensive capacity built into them?

No you don’t.

The bottom line is Scrapper Hammer needs to have 1 (and just 1) Weapon Skill picked where they remove the Defensive Capacity from it.

Its completely imbalanced for a class to have Offense and Defense across its entire Weapon Skill Bar. No other class does but Engi.

And P.S. the reason they don’t have Weapon Swap is because they have F1-F5 skills.

As staff Thief, its my second nemesis ( first is dh ).

You can’t win if the scrapper is good.

d/p you can trade due to blind abuse but yes, he will deal greater hits than you.

btw let’s wait some days more cause the patch is still fresh.

Only thing I see here is that OP got rekt by better player and now clearly looking for excuses.

Rozbuska.5263:

Only thing I see here is that OP got rekt by better player and now clearly looking for excuses.

Wrong.

I’m observing that other Melee Class Specs don’t have Defense on every Weapon Spot on their bar.

So neither should you.

I have to agree, even when bunkers were rampant, power scrapper was still on is prime, only being held back by bunkers, but now that they are gone …oh boy!

In my opinion what needs to be hit is not the defense part, what bothers me is that all the traits I have to go for are defensive and yet I deal a crap load of damage, that is whats is wrong. If I specc defense, I shouldn’t be hitting that much, otherwise we have the old D/D cele. Lower base damage, keep scaling (or lower it a little bit more if needed).

Rozbuska.5263:

Only thing I see here is that OP got rekt by better player and now clearly looking for excuses.

this pretty much

Have you seen Druid’s staff and greatsword combo?

Dragonhunters’ bow…

The DPS of hammer is fine.

Rezzet.3614:

Storms Fury.9307:

Engineer Hammer skills 2-5 have Strong Base Damage and Coefficients and Strong Defensive Capacities.

Electro Whirl:
Damage (x2): 888 – 2.2 Power Coefficient
Defense: Reflect Missiles

Rocket Charge:
Damage (x3) 1,212 – 3.0 Power Coefficient
Defense: Evade 1s

Shock Shield:
Damage (x5) 1,010 – 2.5 Power Coefficient
Defense: Block 2s

Thunder Clap Does High Damage and Stuns for 1 Second.
Damage (x6) 1,452 – 3.6 Power Coefficient
Defense: Stun 1s

Compared to All other Melee Classes:
-Engineer has Superior Base Damage
-Engineer has Superior Power Coefficients
-Engineer has Superior Defense

Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.

how about you actually read the skills for once
because you’d notice they are all channeled and that is why they have such high base coefficients .

electro whirl = 1.1×2

rocket charge = 1×3

shock shield = 0.5×5

thunderclap = 0.6×6 Stun on impact not pulses

think about it backstab from the back has 2.4 scaling yet lands up to 8k in a single hit yet you dont see thunderclap hit for 12k per pulse nor does the flamethrower hit for 9k per tick of its 10 hit auto attack

This.

One has to take into account that they are multiple hits and channeled spells.
They dont do their dmg fully in one instant.

OP is correct and most know it.
The offensive abilities of pre-nerf revenant, the defensive abilites of druid…how is that balanced?
And those don’t count as a channel, the ele d/d earth 4 and 5 were channeled, the old warrior rifle f1 too

scrapper was a top tier class along with b/s mesmer bunker

mesmer got gutted and scrapper just got a couple of laughable cooldown increases, lol

Lexander.4579:

scrapper was a top tier class along with b/s mesmer bunker

mesmer got gutted and scrapper just got a couple of laughable cooldown increases, lol

The mesmer changes are poor I agree but scrapper hardly dominated the meta like chronobunker did.

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

scrapper was a top tier class along with b/s mesmer bunker

mesmer got gutted and scrapper just got a couple of laughable cooldown increases, lol

The mesmer changes are poor I agree but scrapper hardly dominated the meta like chronobunker did.

you put it right there saying that chronobunker dominated the meta

however even if scrapper didnt dictate the flow of matches it still had (has) insane amount of raw power/defense including some nice utility with sneak and function gyros

I got to agree with thread opener. I used to play thief until hot release, but switched to multiclassing after thief was in a bad state (not taöking about newest thief buff now). I played in a pretty high tier, due to familie and work reasons i couldnt play a lot lately. Nevertheless, altough i never played a decend engi, i can run scrapper against esl players and teams with succes (alltough i only meat them in unranked atm). The damage is ok, but the sustain comming with it is insane. As i didnt play a lot latetly my ranked tier got pretty low and i am only ruby. In ruby i can often 1v3 and kill all three players wirh the scrapper. And again, i am not even a good scrapper. No matter how bad the opponents are, this should not be possible. Invuls, heal and condiremove, lots of dodges and blocks, stunbreakers, stealth, lots of regen, steath counter. Pretty much every defensive option is combined in this class, but still the damage is insane. Easy acces to venom to prevent healing and interrupts seals the deal. Remeber when cele engi was op, this is by far worse!
Only class i go 1v1against another scrapper is rev, maybe the buffed thief now.
It even sipports quite well wirh decend mobility.
This sounds pretty bad, but than again a small debuff in either damage or sustain could bring it into the right spot.

I’ve pretty much known that Scrapper is going to be good after the most recent patch, but now I’ve finally played it a little and it looks absolutely incredible.

- Amazing in teamfights (heavy AoE, some shared boons, condi-removal, sick on-point pressure, very sustainy and hard to spike down, sick CC, good at rezzing/stomping)
- Mobility is average
- Reveal and stealth
- Damage is absolutely insane (I was running pala amu and hoelbrak runes), both the sustained dmg and the spiked dmg.
- Heavily counters certain builds like thief, DH
- Very strong in 1v1’s
- Strong against both condi and power-dmg

It really is the full package… I can easily see ESL teams running 2+ Engi’s atm.

Akkeros.1675:

OP is correct and most know it.
The offensive abilities of pre-nerf revenant, the defensive abilites of druid…how is that balanced?
And those don’t count as a channel, the ele d/d earth 4 and 5 were channeled, the old warrior rifle f1 too

were you dropped on your head…?

those had channeling but it was a channeled timer followed by skill activation
engi is multi hit channels
its not the same 10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10,10 in 2 seconds
compared to 2 seconds and then 100

I been saying scrapper hammer needs some nerfs since HoT came out. Channeled spells is probably worst argument ever since channeled spells force you to burn dodges for every single spell. Imagine ranger had rapid fire on every single LB spell and built in utility.

Also, i would LOVE to hear any defense for hammer while thief SB exists (which has HUGE trade off for every utility). Or necro weapons, or ele weapons, or frankly most of the weapon sets in game that have some kind of utility.

Remember back when engi was balanced around weaknesses to CC and condi pressure? I’m sure we’re all soo glad they’ve moved on to balancing around more strengths and no weaknesses instead :^)

Sins.4782:

Remember back when engi was balanced around weaknesses to CC and condi pressure? I’m sure we’re all soo glad they’ve moved on to balancing around more strengths and no weaknesses instead :^)

yep, I look forward to the day guardians get 4 900+ range leap finishers and access to poison, torment, chill, confusion and bleed on their next elite spec

Cynz.9437:

Also, i would LOVE to hear any defense for hammer while thief SB exists (which has HUGE trade off for every utility). Or necro weapons, or ele weapons, or frankly most of the weapon sets in game that have some kind of utility.

Do you know what those other weapons have in common, too?
They’re on classes with multiple weapon sets. Even elementalists, whose loss of a second weapon set is converted to multiple attunements (albeit, they pay the price of having four attunements by having individually weaker skills, be it due to their cooldowns or effects).
And before someone else comes out the “toolbelt” excuse…it isn’t like engineers are the only one with F skills – guardians have got three signets-like skills, for example. While still retaining the second weapon slot. And since someone will mention kits too, well, they’re utilities – and that makes them optional, unlike something given as baseline and that’s always available. The latter, you can balance a class upon – they always have it, as said before. The former, no way – else they get essentially forced upon instead.
So, you think that engineers’ weapons are stronger than the norm and should be balanced like other classes’ one?
Fine, give engineers a second weapon set and it’s done. But until then, something has to make up for it.

(and either way, splitting balance over the different game modes would go a long way to properly balance things; still, they aren’t doing it, despite all of them being much different from each others)

Manuhell.2759:

Cynz.9437:

Also, i would LOVE to hear any defense for hammer while thief SB exists (which has HUGE trade off for every utility). Or necro weapons, or ele weapons, or frankly most of the weapon sets in game that have some kind of utility.

Do you know what those other weapons have in common, too?
They’re on classes with multiple weapon sets. Even elementalists, whose loss of a second weapon set is converted to multiple attunements (albeit, they pay the price of having four attunements by having individually weaker skills, be it due to their cooldowns or effects).
And before someone else comes out the “toolbelt” excuse…it isn’t like engineers are the only one with F skills – guardians have got three signets-like skills, for example. While still retaining the second weapon slot. And since someone will mention kits too, well, they’re utilities – and that makes them optional, unlike something given as baseline and that’s always available. The latter, you can balance a class upon – they always have it, as said before. The former, no way – else they get essentially forced upon instead.
So, you think that engineers’ weapons are stronger than the norm and should be balanced like other classes’ one?
Fine, give engineers a second weapon set and it’s done. But until then, something has to make up for it.

(and either way, splitting balance over the different game modes would go a long way to properly balance things; still, they aren’t doing it, despite all of them being much different from each others)

Indeed.

Engineer has no sweapon swap.

On my warrior, I can have dmg spells, reflect, block and stuns too on my combined weapon swaps (even on my axe + shield alone to some extend, although the dmg part aint great in that swap, so need the other swap if I want more proper dmg).

Engi having dmg+defences on some spells is both an advantage and disadvantage.

An advantage if you can use them at the same time (blocking while dealing dmg)
A disadvantage if you for example have to block something, while not in range for it to deal dmg.

If you would strip the hammer of some stuff, than we would need weapon swap and put the stripped stuff on a second weapon, so that we would still have all those tools but than over 2 weapons spread.

Some people dont look at the hammer from the right perspective I think.

Are they more OP than my reaper? Doubtful, but interesting if it is.

Yashuoa.9527:

Manuhell.2759:

Cynz.9437:

Also, i would LOVE to hear any defense for hammer while thief SB exists (which has HUGE trade off for every utility). Or necro weapons, or ele weapons, or frankly most of the weapon sets in game that have some kind of utility.

Do you know what those other weapons have in common, too?
They’re on classes with multiple weapon sets. Even elementalists, whose loss of a second weapon set is converted to multiple attunements (albeit, they pay the price of having four attunements by having individually weaker skills, be it due to their cooldowns or effects).
And before someone else comes out the “toolbelt” excuse…it isn’t like engineers are the only one with F skills – guardians have got three signets-like skills, for example. While still retaining the second weapon slot. And since someone will mention kits too, well, they’re utilities – and that makes them optional, unlike something given as baseline and that’s always available. The latter, you can balance a class upon – they always have it, as said before. The former, no way – else they get essentially forced upon instead.
So, you think that engineers’ weapons are stronger than the norm and should be balanced like other classes’ one?
Fine, give engineers a second weapon set and it’s done. But until then, something has to make up for it.

(and either way, splitting balance over the different game modes would go a long way to properly balance things; still, they aren’t doing it, despite all of them being much different from each others)

Indeed.

Engineer has no sweapon swap.

On my warrior, I can have dmg spells, reflect, block and stuns too on my combined weapon swaps (even on my axe + shield alone to some extend, although the dmg part aint great in that swap, so need the other swap if I want more proper dmg).

Engi having dmg+defences on some spells is both an advantage and disadvantage.

An advantage if you can use them at the same time (blocking while dealing dmg)
A disadvantage if you for example have to block something, while not in range for it to deal dmg.

If you would strip the hammer of some stuff, than we would need weapon swap and put the stripped stuff on a second weapon, so that we would still have all those tools but than over 2 weapons spread.

Some people dont look at the hammer from the right perspective I think.

You have kit’s that are better than other classes weapons.

If you have trouble with Scrapper use spamwich build. Aprooved by Esports.

Junkpile.7439:

Yashuoa.9527:

Manuhell.2759:

Cynz.9437:

Also, i would LOVE to hear any defense for hammer while thief SB exists (which has HUGE trade off for every utility). Or necro weapons, or ele weapons, or frankly most of the weapon sets in game that have some kind of utility.

Do you know what those other weapons have in common, too?
They’re on classes with multiple weapon sets. Even elementalists, whose loss of a second weapon set is converted to multiple attunements (albeit, they pay the price of having four attunements by having individually weaker skills, be it due to their cooldowns or effects).
And before someone else comes out the “toolbelt” excuse…it isn’t like engineers are the only one with F skills – guardians have got three signets-like skills, for example. While still retaining the second weapon slot. And since someone will mention kits too, well, they’re utilities – and that makes them optional, unlike something given as baseline and that’s always available. The latter, you can balance a class upon – they always have it, as said before. The former, no way – else they get essentially forced upon instead.
So, you think that engineers’ weapons are stronger than the norm and should be balanced like other classes’ one?
Fine, give engineers a second weapon set and it’s done. But until then, something has to make up for it.

(and either way, splitting balance over the different game modes would go a long way to properly balance things; still, they aren’t doing it, despite all of them being much different from each others)

Indeed.

Engineer has no sweapon swap.

On my warrior, I can have dmg spells, reflect, block and stuns too on my combined weapon swaps (even on my axe + shield alone to some extend, although the dmg part aint great in that swap, so need the other swap if I want more proper dmg).

Engi having dmg+defences on some spells is both an advantage and disadvantage.

An advantage if you can use them at the same time (blocking while dealing dmg)
A disadvantage if you for example have to block something, while not in range for it to deal dmg.

If you would strip the hammer of some stuff, than we would need weapon swap and put the stripped stuff on a second weapon, so that we would still have all those tools but than over 2 weapons spread.

Some people dont look at the hammer from the right perspective I think.

You have kit’s

If you have read Manuhel2759 his post right and my reply to his, than you can see that the Kit argument doesnt work in this context.
He already explained that.

Yashuoa.9527:

If you have read Manuhel2759 his post right and my reply to his, than you can see that the Kit argument doesnt work in this context.
He already explained that.

It’s amusing how people always come out with that argument.
If someone ever proposed to give warriors lower base stats because they can take banners to compensate for it, or that they should lose some health every second by default because by using healing signet they would still have a positive net outcome anyway, people would call him crazy. And they would be right.
And yet, when engineers are involved, people seriously think it should work like that.

engineers weapons normally have offence and defense baked into them. it’s only natural that hammer is more defensive as it’s melee. no weapons swap and the potential of running with no kits, hammer has to be pretty well rounded to work- and it is. everything has solid windups and big animations though, so its a very dodgeable weapon. it’s well rounded because you need to theoretically be able to play just using it by itself. it has to have a complete melee style in 5 skills.

is the damage too high? does it have too much utility? might have said yes before HoT, but with revenant, druid, and other elite specs wandering around its fine tbh. normally it’s run on a very tanky build with marauders or paladins, which means sustain from traits and utilities while having high damage still.

if anything I’d be worried about toolkit with power wrench. the vigor buff makes the traitline deeply attractive and a 3sec block on a 13sec CD is incredible.

try using some Brains and using CCs and weakness to counter scrappers scrapperss all mostly run power builds shut them down with weakness

not to mention conditions are a scrapper hard counter
if any of you whiners is playing a mesmer,necro and rev you got no excuse to cry about your profession is a natural hard counter you just fail at the game

plus its not like scrapper is bunker while running berserker gear they are tough because they usually run with all defensive trait and bruiser amulets like marauder and paladin

Unfortunately a brain doesn’t (hard) counter braindead builds :/

Condis are not a hard counter to scrapper. Maybe the new condi necro/reaper is, but that’s pretty much all. And marauder is not a bruiser amulet.

Ragnarox.9601:

If you have trouble with Scrapper use spamwich build. Aprooved by Esports.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0JWZ8t08TY

Stop spreading this kittening kitten, some people can’t tell it’s a kittening joke, the video attempts to show that snap targeting is stupid, but during the video he unintentionally said why snap targeting shouldn’t be use the majority of the time.

Some people think that’s a legit video and can’t tell he’s fighting kitten players.

Yes you can beat people by just spamming skills in hotjoins and low mmr brackets, no its not just necro that can do that.

NeXeD.3042:

Stop spreading this kittening kitten, some people can’t tell it’s a kittening joke, the video attempts to show that snap targeting is stupid, but during the video he unintentionally said why snap targeting shouldn’t be use the majority of the time.

Some people think that’s a legit video and can’t tell he’s fighting kitten players.

Yes you can beat people by just spamming skills in hotjoins and low mmr brackets, no its not just necro that can do that.

You angry mate cause some dude prooved how brokenly OP your class is now? But you are in luck cause ppl who balance this game have zero sense and skills to balance this properly.

For reminder:

Retaliation and Reflect are two mechanics with high damage when it come from a DPS. Please make sure you look at when you attack.

I got games yesterday where people where complaining my damage (over a cleric scrapper build) when it was their dps on their face that make them QQ.

Storms Fury.9307:

Compared to All other Melee Classes:
-Engineer has Superior Base Damage
-Engineer has Superior Power Coefficients
-Engineer has Superior Defense

Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.

It is balanced around the fact that we can’t switch weapon.
Kits damage are sub-par to most weapons skill of the game.

If something need to be done, is simply raising Cooldown on hammer 2 and 4.

Dal

BTW, saying this:

“Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.”

Is Wrong since you didn’t compare it to other professions.

You need to give all those stats for all other professions before doing disinformations.

Jourdelune.7456:

Storms Fury.9307:

Compared to All other Melee Classes:
-Engineer has Superior Base Damage
-Engineer has Superior Power Coefficients
-Engineer has Superior Defense

Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.

It is balanced around the fact that we can’t switch weapon.
Kits damage are sub-par to most weapons skill of the game.

If something need to be done, is simply raising Cooldown on hammer 2 and 4.

Dal

maybe blocks wouldnt be a problem to people if they learned to not blow their cooldowns when their enemies have huge GLOWING orbs of lightning around them

Storms Fury.9307:

Engineer Hammer skills 2-5 have Strong Base Damage and Coefficients and Strong Defensive Capacities.

Electro Whirl:
Damage (x2): 888 – 2.2 Power Coefficient
Defense: Reflect Missiles

Rocket Charge:
Damage (x3) 1,212 – 3.0 Power Coefficient
Defense: Evade 1s

Shock Shield:
Damage (x5) 1,010 – 2.5 Power Coefficient
Defense: Block 2s

Thunder Clap Does High Damage and Stuns for 1 Second.
Damage (x6) 1,452 – 3.6 Power Coefficient
Defense: Stun 1s

Compared to All other Melee Classes:
-Engineer has Superior Base Damage
-Engineer has Superior Power Coefficients
-Engineer has Superior Defense

Scrapper Base Damage, Power Coefficients, and Defensive Capacity need to all be re-evaluated. Right now this is clearly imbalanced.

how about you actually read the skills for once
because you’d notice they are all channeled and that is why they have such high base coefficients .

electro whirl = 1.1×2

rocket charge = 1×3

shock shield = 0.5×5

thunderclap = 0.6×6 Stun on impact not pulses

think about it backstab from the back has 2.4 scaling yet lands up to 8k in a single hit yet you dont see thunderclap hit for 12k per pulse nor does the flamethrower hit for 9k per tick of its 10 hit auto attack

and again all of you uninformed people ignore this facts

stop spamming offensive skills and play smart for once and you’ll see scrapper is the stupidly easiest profession to counter

Ragnarox.9601:

NeXeD.3042:

Stop spreading this kittening kitten, some people can’t tell it’s a kittening joke, the video attempts to show that snap targeting is stupid, but during the video he unintentionally said why snap targeting shouldn’t be use the majority of the time.

Some people think that’s a legit video and can’t tell he’s fighting kitten players.

Yes you can beat people by just spamming skills in hotjoins and low mmr brackets, no its not just necro that can do that.

You angry mate cause some dude prooved how brokenly OP your class is now? But you are in luck cause ppl who balance this game have zero sense and skills to balance this properly.

That video was before the patch. Has nothing to do with now, I don’t disagree that Necro is OP as kitten now. But with the way everyone was farting out boons something had to be done, not that I agree with the solution just that I understand the reasoning. Think of it ok we nerfed the hell out of blighter’s boon, so if necro isn’t going to benefit as much as other classes from boons not to mention our class mechanic negates a decent amount of heals from allies, so let’s make them the god of all boon hate. Also there’s no way it lasts for longer than a month or so