Guild Wars 2

Stealth Gyro from Scrapper is too over powered. It’s worse than PU Mesmer before the nerf. not only does it spawn every 20 seconds… it can be placed when some one is stunned or disabled. I don’t believe Engineer should even get any more stealth skills as stealth should only really be for classes such as Thief and Mesmer. The Gyro is also tough to take down and gives about 4 seconds of stealth even after the Npc is destroyed.

I’m ready for all the salt and hate mail I’ll get but along with adaptive armor , THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TELL ME THATS NOT OVER POWERED.

Will this ever get changed or did Anet really just destroy “balanced” pvp ?

In what game mode are we talking? You give up other awesome elites by taking stealth gyro. It’s as strong as an elite should be, but you can always CC/aoe/focus gyro. It dies rather fast to focus.

I’ll agree that it’s annoying to handle, makes rezzing teammates easy, but it’s far from impossible to deal with especially in 1v1s. Scrappers don’t benefit from stealth as much as other classes do in most roles, it just helps them not die or support the team.

Rhomulos.2089:

You give up other awesome elites by taking stealth gyro. It’s as strong as an elite should be

Tornado says hi.

I guess you never tried it on your own, then you would see its not that great. Also tough to take down? Cant agree.
Plus i think adaptive armor is pretty much overrated. Im playing perfectly weighted since a while and cant feel any difference in sustain. Scrappers sustain doesnt come from adaptive armor, its majorally the reflects, blocks and evades.

Loboling.5293:

Rhomulos.2089:

You give up other awesome elites by taking stealth gyro. It’s as strong as an elite should be

Tornado says hi.

Getting Tornado from X is the band-aid balance for not having 100% chance Rampages, at Ele’s expense of having a kitten elite skill.

Sazukikrah.5036:

THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TELL ME THATS NOT OVER POWERED.

Then any attempt to debate & educate you is pointless.

For the interested reader:
Opposing to what the previous poster propagated,
- the gyro is quite squishy and can be taken out easily, both from condi and power-builds.
- it has huge pathing issues, making its use quite annoying for the engineer himself. More often than not it stops for no reason whatsoever & forces us to manually run back for the stealth ticks, or leave it alone, resulting in very short stealth uptimes.
- it is a elite-skill, preventing us from either running moa+rampage, mortar+Orbital strike or supplycrate. The absence of moa alone reduces our advantage above necros / rampage warris quite heavily.
- Picking stealth gyro also makes us weaker against other engineers, since they can reveal us (and we them), so we kinda counter each other. Also dragonhunters are a surprisingly good counter against this gyro, if they pick their aoe reveal trap.

And yes, picking this skill obviously has advantages for us, else we’d not pick them:
- we can aoe-stealth to any time, allowing us to rezz downed team-members & execute stomps more safely.
- even if it gets destroyed in cleave right instantly, the few seconds stealth we get from activating it are good gap-closers, waiting time for cooldowns, or windows for repositioning.
- in combat it can become very effective IF our opponent is dumb enough to allow us to keep it up. Ofc attacking reveals us, but the gyro tick is on longer intervals than the reveal lasts, causing us to blink in and out of stealth every 3 seconds, which does a good job in messing with opponents targeting.
- prestacking stealth on a node while waiting for incoming enemies give us the advantage of the unexpected first strike, and thunderclap is a exceptionally good one at that. In some rare scenarios (that include the gyro not to kitten up, follow properly & stack up stealth on us) we actually can sneak past defenders by destroying the gyro before they can see it & cap the node while they already moved out to another one.
- The wonky pathing-AI of the gyro can work in our favor, causing it to run off in complete wrong directions, leading chasing opponents into utter confusion. Small tipp, if you see it flying away, don’t follow. chnces are that it got confused by the terrain and we actually wait (on the node or not) for you to run off / give up on your (maybe good) positioning. Just dps it ranged, wait & keep your fingers above your stunbreaker.

regardless what situation of the above you’re facing, destroying the gyro once it’s up, is your best bet. Even in the worst case (traited for final salvo) it will blow up in a lighting field, giving the engi superspeed to run away / close the gap.

I agree about stealth. Not particularly against engineer, just in general. Stealth in the early edition of game acted as escape buffer. No profession could use it in any sort of meaningful way apart from thief. Slowly it got added to ranger. Now it has been extended on mesmer and engineer and is no longer a strictly defensive tool. In their current state engineer stealth is situationally good in some PvE instances, but far from needed. In PvP though engineer/scrapper have a solid advantage in having no real weaknesses. They may not hit the hardest, move the fastest etc..but they are weak to nothing. The only way to truly beat an engineer is upset their play style. Even then with transmution/adaptive armour and a passive immunities it is also kinda helpful if they mistime a situation. Apart from that engineer is a solid profession at the moment. Each build a has a little wiggle room for customization by the player and they can be traited to have what they need when they need it. Engineer just doesn’t need stealth like it use to. At this point it can’t be removed, but it’s recharges and duration could certainly be looked at.

Theres no doubt that it has way too low cd/too high hp for what it does. It takes few seconds before it goes down and while you focus it engi has free time to smash your face with pry tool or w/e else they hide at that time. The combination of sustain, stab and direct+condi damage is imo over the top. Basically dd ele 2.0 stab&stealth edition.

It’s a bit too strong in Stronghold… but I fail to see it useful anywhere else.

Stealth Gyro is OP?

It’s the biggest LOL I ever saw.

Pretty much indicates where Engineer is.

Implement this for Thief and you’ll see the spam of cries.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

No profession could use it in any sort of meaningful way apart from thief. Slowly it got added to ranger. Now it has been extended on mesmer and engineer and is no longer a strictly defensive tool.

You realize that Mesmers have all their stealth skills, traits and utilites since the release of this game, right? Even PU existed since headstart. A crappy version, but PU nonetheless. Then they added defensive buffs in 2013.

Concerning sneak gyro; I agree that the CD seems too low… but then again, I haven’t had any problems dealing with it. 20s is pretty neat for a skill like that. Mass Invis is basically a “Sneak Gyro” (4s pulse) with one single pulse (5s stealth) and it has a whopping 90s CD, and almost 2s cast time. Bigger range of course, but that seems like a huge tradeoff.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Concerning sneak gyro; I agree that the CD seems too low… but then again, I haven’t had any problems dealing with it. 20s is pretty neat for a skill like that. Mass Invis is basically a “Sneak Gyro” (4s pulse) with one single pulse (5s stealth) and it has a whopping 90s CD, and almost 2s cast time. Bigger range of course, but that seems like a huge tradeoff.

Mass Invis doesnt give away your position (gyro is always visible and cannot be invis’d) and doesnt fail to keep up with you whilst running….

As I said, first pulse.

Yall like missed the fact that it can still be used during stun or disabled. None of you think that’s too oppressive?

zxstanyxz.8769:

tetrodoxin.2134:

Concerning sneak gyro; I agree that the CD seems too low… but then again, I haven’t had any problems dealing with it. 20s is pretty neat for a skill like that. Mass Invis is basically a “Sneak Gyro” (4s pulse) with one single pulse (5s stealth) and it has a whopping 90s CD, and almost 2s cast time. Bigger range of course, but that seems like a huge tradeoff.

Mass Invis doesnt give away your position (gyro is always visible and cannot be invis’d) and doesnt fail to keep up with you whilst running….

You get 4s AOE stealth even if you only get the first pulse of the sneak gyro. That was the comparison tetrodoxin gave. So even if you destroy your gyro immediately, sneak gyro is clearly better than MI. The only advantage of MI would be its range, but I would personally trade immediately that for a 0s cast time.

Silverkey.2078:

zxstanyxz.8769:

tetrodoxin.2134:

Concerning sneak gyro; I agree that the CD seems too low… but then again, I haven’t had any problems dealing with it. 20s is pretty neat for a skill like that. Mass Invis is basically a “Sneak Gyro” (4s pulse) with one single pulse (5s stealth) and it has a whopping 90s CD, and almost 2s cast time. Bigger range of course, but that seems like a huge tradeoff.

Mass Invis doesnt give away your position (gyro is always visible and cannot be invis’d) and doesnt fail to keep up with you whilst running….

You get 4s AOE stealth even if you only get the first pulse of the sneak gyro. That was the comparison tetrodoxin gave. So even if you destroy your gyro immediately, sneak gyro is clearly better than MI. The only advantage of MI would be its range, but I would personally trade immediately that for a 0s cast time.

I’d prefer the range tbh, which is why i still run with elixer s so i can throw stealth on a downed teammate on the other side of the point to stop them from being stomped. for conquest i still generally prefer elixer x over sneak gyro as i find it has a lot better useage for the way i play, though on stronghold i will take sneak gyro most times (depending on team comp)

if sneak gyro didnt have as many issues as it does (pathing and what-not) i would say it is slightly over powered, however until they fix its many issues (ai) then it wont be overpowered in my mind (i’ve managed to deploy it and not get the benefit of even the first pulse because of its issues)

I would never take it over X or Mortar. it’s just not good enough. hardly OP, more like UP.

choovanski.5462:

it’s just not good enough. hardly OP, more like UP.

Wut?)

Mak.2657:

choovanski.5462:

it’s just not good enough. hardly OP, more like UP.

Wut?)

it’s not that good dude. I’ve seen it a bunch in PvP and it doesn’t stand up to X or Mortar.

It dominates at 1×1. It’s is jail free card on 20cd, free res at team, counter to any other stealth users and tactics, etc. Though it is only 1 of probably imbalanced issues among many others (all elites)

Mak.2657:

It dominates at 1×1. It’s is jail free card on 20cd, free res at team, counter to any other stealth users and tactics, etc.

?
I’ve denied stealth reses a lot of times dude. all you need to do is cleave.
sure it lets you leave a losing fight and give up a cap point, but that’s true for any stealth skill. I’m pretty happy to let my opponents give up points.

i don’t know how you’re being dominated by it.. I really don’t.

Just visit 1×1 servers.
If you are gonna die – you would give up a cap anyway. Now with gyro you can go invis, ltl kite and burst heal(bh -thing which other stealth classes usually can’t do) and come back. Very low CD and good hp for gyro

Mak.2657:

Just visit 1×1 servers.
If you are gonna die – you would give up a cap anyway. Now with gyro you can go invis, ltl kite and burst heal(bh -thing which other stealth classes usually can’t do) and come back. Very low CD and good hp for gyro

lol what?
thieves heal over time while stealthed ,can use heals while stealthed , can stealth more while stealthed .

mesmers can stealth while spawning a clone or phantasm , can heal while stealthed , can teleport while stealthed.

Ranger and DH can stealth with trapper runes and heal while stealthed

what exactly is your argument besides hating on scrapper for sucking at the game?

Mak.2657:

Just visit 1×1 servers.
If you are gonna die – you would give up a cap anyway. Now with gyro you can go invis, ltl kite and burst heal(bh -thing which other stealth classes usually can’t do) and come back. Very low CD and good hp for gyro

Let’s list something important:
- Stealth Gyro is permanently Revealed
- Stealth Gyro is within ~5m max distance from Scrapper using it

Now tell me how hard it is to tell where Scrapper is and how hard it is to burst him down when he’s stealthed by Gyro.

I am having so much fun with scrapper but I do think stealth gyro is a bit too good. Despite all the pathing issue it might have, in most cases roaming in wvw I simply using it For the 4 sec stealth (destroy the gyro right after placing it) on a 20 sec cd. It’s much better than decoy or the prestige or MI in terms of cd in a solo roaming setting.

You suggest aoe burst (while most of burst are target only) the whole area where scrapper could be? Even when scrapper is stealth ressing it not an easy task cause protection, blind triggers, sustain,.. Plus func gyro doing work while scrapper could stay aside.

tetrodoxin.2134:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

No profession could use it in any sort of meaningful way apart from thief. Slowly it got added to ranger. Now it has been extended on mesmer and engineer and is no longer a strictly defensive tool.

You realize that Mesmers have all their stealth skills, traits and utilites since the release of this game, right? Even PU existed since headstart. A crappy version, but PU nonetheless. Then they added defensive buffs in 2013.

Concerning sneak gyro; I agree that the CD seems too low… but then again, I haven’t had any problems dealing with it. 20s is pretty neat for a skill like that. Mass Invis is basically a “Sneak Gyro” (4s pulse) with one single pulse (5s stealth) and it has a whopping 90s CD, and almost 2s cast time. Bigger range of course, but that seems like a huge tradeoff.

I do know about the thing you call mesmer. As stated “it has been extended on mesmer.” Decoy and torch were in the early game a GFTO mechanic. However they have evolved now to “They never saw me coming.” Since it became popularized with the changes to PU stealth is no longer just a defense tool. It is boon stacking mechanic and lead in attack. In the beginning it was stealth/blink away mechanic.

Again, to make it clear I am not wanting to target any one profession that can stealth, just stating that stealth, like all things should be in constant review to match whether the intention is equal to the usage. This is no different to the current fad of traps. is the intention matching up with the usage? Do they need a new approach of viewing them for future balancing concerns.

Scrapper Stealth Gyro = spam aoe here to get bags

It’s strong in niche situations that generally aren’t relevant to our game types, if we’re talking about getting out of a gank/2v1 etc, then it’s the only elite that can do it. Even then all it takes is to spam the area with aoe or kill the gyro real fast. It’s not even a stun break.

If a Scrapper takes this as their elite, they’re giving things up. It can be countered, perhaps not efficiently by a single person, but what the scrapper does is limited now.

No X for team fights/mobility/securing 1v1s/point holding and no Mortar for 1v1s, utility etc.

No comment atm on Stronghold viability. I don’t think balance matters for that right now.

Stealth Gyro have saved my life many times… But my scrapper is a tank and needs survival. I use it when I stomp, rez, getting out of trouble or making sure people loose target from whole team now and then.

I think Stealth gyro is perfect and doesn’t need a nerf becouse if it does it will not get used and be another skill like mortar was before update.

I may have missed it but people who want’s to nerf it, how do you want to nerf it?

If we want a low recharge aoe stealth elixir S (and smoke bomb) is also a thing. And the former is the toolbelt of an excellent invuln skill that’s frequently used (HGH + tools reduces its recharge massively). Think of it as an elite version of elixir S without the invulnerability skill to go with it. Its very good. It’s just that in pure gamewinning power, crate and elixir (and mortar (cant say tar and d next to each other) depending on your taste) offer a lot, and in conquest these might be preferable to stealth.
Regarding stats for the gyros itself if left out its about 10k, the same as for the other gyros except bulwark last time i looked. And the armor is very much far from impressive. It counters ranged, non aoe weapons but it shows the general trajectory of the engineer to allow you to cleave.

But given that this thread has happened i will address whoever is reading this and who is currently working on the nerf i would suggest maybe not letting it pulse directly on placement, requiring 3 seconds before kicking into effect to address the issue of placing and detonating (or you could maybe have gone with the gyros recharging while out and tweak the numbers after that). Small mechanical tweaks before boring number games please.

And i think that if there’s stuff wrong about the scrapper i would not look for it in the gyros.

I am actually more annoyed how tanky that thing is and the range on the revealed debuff. 900 is just too much, period.