Guild Wars 2

Why is thief single target damage lower than almost all aoe abilities?
Why is thief supposed to be the best single target dps the worst?
Why is our base health so low without any other means of surviving?
Why are our stealth abilities being made irrelevant due to all the reveal?
Why is our steal unable to critical hit when every other classes ‘f’ ability can?
Why are we locked into a trait line because of one trait that should be baseline?
Why are our traps useless in comparison to dragon hunters or rangers?
Why is our sword base damage 300 or so less than the revenants sword base damage despite them being a Heavy class?
Why do Heavy armor classes get higher base health and toughness than medium and light but deal the same damage and more than thief?
Why does thief initiative system suck and punish us if we miss a CnD?
Why does Daredevil give us no unique mechanic? like serious an extra dodge roll kitten brill not like revenant can just go shiro use basically a withdraw and gain 50 endurance then roll and repeat..

Like for real.. Not just pvp and wvw like pve kitten thief are not viable in raids and deal less dps than rev, engi, ele while having nothing else to offer.. “OOO STEALTH” kitten off engi has sneak gyro – kittening movable shadow refuge lasting like 30 seconds…

Yeah it is another moan thread but idgaf like i was in a pvp match kitten dragonhunter placing some traps on a node, im like right not going to fool for this kitten use my shadowstep utility in trigger them all jump back to avoid damage, then i initiate with sword 2 bam instant dead.. The dragon hunter even said sorry it was literally 100 – 0 in less than 0.5 second

What are you talking about man?! We’re so broken it’s hillarious! We’ve got that shortbow 5 teleport that has a 50% chance to teleport us 900 distance! We can run away like pros!

(On a serious note) I feel your pain mate. I used to be angry about it, but I’ve gotten to the point where I just don’t care because it doesn’t do any good. Developers aren’t showing any concern for the awful spot they have put us in regardless of what we post. I say just troll and try to have a bit of fun or re-roll.

stealth thats why……………..

on a serious note i saw some seriously good daredevils in pvp and i mean seriously good ones. nuking your healtbar while you barely can hit them and when you finaly almost take one down the will just run away like half the map and come back in seconds and continue to nuke you down….

Zoltreez.6435:

stealth thats why……………..

on a serious note i saw some seriously good daredevils in pvp and i mean seriously good ones. nuking your healtbar while you barely can hit them and when you finaly almost take one down the will just run away like half the map and come back in seconds and continue to nuke you down….

That’s the problem. You see a Thief destroying someone and you just assume he’s seriously good. Meanwhile other professions nuke down everyone just by pressing 2 or 3 keys and you don’t think even for a second that they’re any good.

This shows how good of a spot Thief is in.

I can agree that thieves aren’t really in danger of being a super overpowered class, and they definitely have their drawbacks…

But I have to parrot the comment above. Some dagger-wielding daredevils have utterly stomped me in PvP with hefty burst and near constant evasion. They can kite so well and are near impossible to hit for certain melee classes/builds.

I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the unused, default thief builds getting love but please don’t make dagger daredevil any stronger. One worth its salt already flies around the map, being untouchable and ninja-kicking me in the sac…

Thief is fine because of:
- perma stealth
- perma evasion
- 2 or 3 endless spam
- 10k OP backstab
- Shortbow 5
- still every team uses it in esl
- thieves need to L2P
- thief job is not supposed to 1v1 anyone but +1
- decap free bases
Obviously I’m trolling if it wasn’t clear

I agree with OP. Thief sucks so hard now compared to other classes. And Anet ignores this and doesn’t make a change about it, which makes me even more angry…

A lot of the thief (in general) got nerfed when it was verry strong. They buffed everyone else over the years but forgot to un nerf thieves. I switched to ranger a while back, but lets not even begin talking about ranger hate.

Problem with thieves is : stop trying to be brawlers. You are not warriors nor guardians – you brawl = you die. Simple as that.

Btw try DD, they are very strong.

Ragnarox.9601:

Problem with thieves is : stop trying to be brawlers. You are not warriors nor guardians – you brawl = you die. Simple as that.

Btw try DD, they are very strong.

what exactly makes us completely unfit for “brawling”? why is a lightly armored caster profession (ele) the (or was the) best brawler in the game?

there is literally zero logic in demanding thief be completely content in just being subjugated to +1ing. it would be like telling guardians you’re only allowed to play bunker specs.

sinject.4607:

Ragnarox.9601:

Problem with thieves is : stop trying to be brawlers. You are not warriors nor guardians – you brawl = you die. Simple as that.

Btw try DD, they are very strong.

what exactly makes us completely unfit for “brawling”? why is a lightly armored caster profession (ele) the (or was the) best brawler in the game?

there is literally zero logic in demanding thief be completely content in just being subjugated to +1ing. it would be like telling guardians you’re only allowed to play bunker specs.

because devs decided so… they couldn’t care less what is fair and weither we are actually having fun… it is just money money money and if nerfing thief to the groud means more reroll to revenant = more HoT sells then they will do it

besides only person from Anet that is supposely playing thief is Ruby who is “OH SO EXCITEDDDDDDDDDD” to mash golems with staff all day -_-

I just wish they would hire someone that actually cares about thief class. Fact is, thief is garbage. Every single aspect of this class (besides lol moblity) just sucks in comparison.

They want to go esports yets manage to complete ruin 1 of the classes. It is thief daily right now and i don’t see any thieves in matches.

#Inb4GetsMovedToThiefForums

just roll reaper like everyone else problem solved
SUPER EASY TO GET KILLS to kill thieves you only need like 2 or 3 buttons

FeelsAlright.5860:

Shadowstep.6049:

besides only person from Anet that is supposely playing thief is Ruby who is “OH SO EXCITEDDDDDDDDDD” to mash golems with staff all day -_-

I literally hate that woman. She serves absolutely no purpose.

Haha I’m wrong for laughing at this.

Rekt.5360:

#Inb4GetsMovedToThiefForums

wolfgang.3471:

Why is thief single target damage lower than almost all aoe abilities?
Why is thief supposed to be the best single target dps the worst?
Why is our base health so low without any other means of surviving?
Why are our stealth abilities being made irrelevant due to all the reveal?
Why is our steal unable to critical hit when every other classes ‘f’ ability can?
Why are we locked into a trait line because of one trait that should be baseline?
Why are our traps useless in comparison to dragon hunters or rangers?
Why is our sword base damage 300 or so less than the revenants sword base damage despite them being a Heavy class?
Why do Heavy armor classes get higher base health and toughness than medium and light but deal the same damage and more than thief?
Why does thief initiative system suck and punish us if we miss a CnD?
Why does Daredevil give us no unique mechanic? like serious an extra dodge roll kitten brill not like revenant can just go shiro use basically a withdraw and gain 50 endurance then roll and repeat..

Like for real.. Not just pvp and wvw like pve kitten thief are not viable in raids and deal less dps than rev, engi, ele while having nothing else to offer.. “OOO STEALTH” kitten off engi has sneak gyro – kittening movable shadow refuge lasting like 30 seconds…

Yeah it is another moan thread but idgaf like i was in a pvp match kitten dragonhunter placing some traps on a node, im like right not going to fool for this kitten use my shadowstep utility in trigger them all jump back to avoid damage, then i initiate with sword 2 bam instant dead.. The dragon hunter even said sorry it was literally 100 – 0 in less than 0.5 second

honestly your only valid argument here would be the traps sucking one
the rest are all incorrect even the heavy armor one due to guardian having the same hp as thief if guard runs berserkand no vit traits

Rezzet.3614:

wolfgang.3471:

snip

honestly your only valid argument here would be the traps sucking one
the rest are all incorrect even the heavy armor one due to guardian having the same hp as thief if guard runs berserkand no vit traits

Even the trap one is kind of kitten. The DH traps are from an elite spec. I still like my teef, and my guildies never mind me running it in any game mode. Maybe that’s the key… knowing your place in your team whether it’s “optimal” or not.

I know ill get a lot of hate for saying this but.. thief is perfectly fine as it is atm. It is at least as good as it was back in 2014, and it can brawl.

Now at this point, most of you ‘thief mains’ will flame me and ask me to show proof. I have none but anecdotal evidence.

A friend of mine, kronos xnm, has developed a very strong dd build that can defeat almost every known build 1v1. Those it cant win against, it will draw against (without camping stealth).

As for what the build is, im afraid i dont know entirely nor do i wish to reveal it if i did. All i can say is, experiment more and you may find that dd isnt as bad as it seems.

This game will never go esports.

When we think pvp we think Player vs player
When arena net thinks pvp they think passive vs passive

Keyboard turner’s are there target audience, There just going to keep increasing CC, AOE, Passive defenses, Offensive passives, and anything else that doesn’t involve an ouch of brainpower. this game will never be anything more then a filler at this point.

Once you realize that, this game becomes hilarious. Enjoy the ride down i know i am.

Easiest response ever, shut up, l2p

Highlie.7641:

This game will never go esports.

When we think pvp we think Player vs player
When arena net thinks pvp they think passive vs passive

Keyboard turner’s are there target audience, There just going to keep increasing CC, AOE, Passive defenses, Offensive passives, and anything else that doesn’t involve an ouch of brainpower. this game will never be anything more then a filler at this point.

Once you realize that, this game becomes hilarious. Enjoy the ride down i know i am.

I started warrior; so I know what Passive Wars 2 is (shoutbow anyone?). However, many changes have been made. GW2 was not set up with eSports in mind, but I find your lack of faith appalling.

Ah and that is the crutch of it ain’t it loki, When other classes lose to a thief it’s cause there OP. so you whine on the forum and get random power creep.

When a thief loses it’s clearly a L2p issue.

Thanks for the nice example of biased.

Highlie.7641:

Ah and that is the crutch of it ain’t it loki, When other classes lose to a thief it’s cause there OP. so you whine on the forum and get random power creep.

When a thief loses it’s clearly a L2p issue.

Thanks for the nice example of biased.

Just ignore him, hes a troll.

Typical response, can’t contend with logic so you resort to petty attacks. you know the point of “forums” is to debate stuff right?

Highlie.7641:

Typical response, can’t contend with logic so you resort to petty attacks. you know the point of “forums” is to debate stuff right?

You want to debate with “shut up l2p”? Really?

Why not? it’s a good way to kill time while waiting in que.

If ppl say Thief got perma dodge then they didnt saw what shiro can do.

Anet sees thief only as 1 thing. Runner! Daredevil is whole spec dedicated to running away, 99%1v1 fights you will be forced to do guess what? Run. Everyone will tell you that you role is to fight 2v1 3v2 3v1 but thats just BS. in 3v1 even total noob playing any class would be effective just by clicking autoattack. Thief needs to go 2v1 cuz hes utter kitten and cant be compared to any other class in terms of 1v1.

Staff daredevil needs a buff that fore sure. They need some sort of passive defensive since they dont rely on stealth.

Rev’s have reveal abilities so stealth isn’t a big deal anymore. I had an engineer keep me permanently revealed which is a direct class counter and I haven’t caught many very directly. Thief is a sloppy class right now. Basically they poorly designed an assassin class, made a better one, (Rev) and replaced it.

Well at least you still wreck elementalists & mesmers.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Well at least you still wreck elementalists & mesmers.

Uhh zerker Elementalists maybe but Mesmers no way unless they are also zerker and have no stealth skills.

OP you forgot to ask
Why are venom traits in a defensive trait line
Why is daredevil the twin of acro
Why is this class not renamed jester

DD is actually quite balanced, everything else is just enormously overpowered. If all of the elite specializations got brought down to Daredevil level Spvp might actually be competitive.

By balanced I mean as a whole, not compared to other elite specs. It’s not OP, but its also not really underwhelming. Counter play is there, and the skill floor is relatively high but the skill ceiling is quite low. That’s the problem.

Every other elite spec has a very low skill floor… and a high skill ceiling; except maybe berserker.

Highlie.7641:

This game will never go esports.

When we think pvp we think Player vs player
When arena net thinks pvp they think passive vs passive

Keyboard turner’s are there target audience, There just going to keep increasing CC, AOE, Passive defenses, Offensive passives, and anything else that doesn’t involve an ouch of brainpower. this game will never be anything more then a filler at this point.

Once you realize that, this game becomes hilarious. Enjoy the ride down i know i am.

There is so much truth in this that i’m going to double post.

My honest answer to this is: Thief will never be in a good spot because it is impossible to balance stealth based classes well, at least regarding how stealth works in this game and how many aspects have to be considered (and Anet has moved away from separating the game modes functionality-wise). Therefore, as long as thief is basically the stealth class , depending on stealth for core class mechanics it will either suck or be too strong, currently the former.
Just ask yourself why a reveal skill/stealth counter is automatically a thief counter whereas other forms of countering game mechanics (block, reflect, projectile deny) although very strong in some scenarios can not be considered an automatic counter for other classes.

Thief should be redesigned, focusing more on their actual class mechanic steal (or whatever works), while granting access to utility stealth (mesmer, ranger, engi). Then there will be a chance for a well rounded thief class.

Jackalrat.5493:

I wouldn’t mind seeing some of the unused, default thief builds getting love but please don’t make dagger daredevil any stronger. One worth its salt already flies around the map, being untouchable and ninja-kicking me in the sac…

See, that’s the problem; before HoT everybody cried to nerf stealth, so all thieves have left is evades and now people start to cry about the evades… sigh

Meanwhile the berserker…

is bottom tier.

Ragnarox.9601:

Problem with thieves is : stop trying to be brawlers. You are not warriors nor guardians – you brawl = you die. Simple as that.

Btw try DD, they are very strong.

Warrior can’t brawl tho

eXeD.9738:

Zoltreez.6435:

stealth thats why……………..

on a serious note i saw some seriously good daredevils in pvp and i mean seriously good ones. nuking your healtbar while you barely can hit them and when you finaly almost take one down the will just run away like half the map and come back in seconds and continue to nuke you down….

That’s the problem. You see a Thief destroying someone and you just assume he’s seriously good. Meanwhile other professions nuke down everyone just by pressing 2 or 3 keys and you don’t think even for a second that they’re any good.

This shows how good of a spot Thief is in.

Certainly.
Because nuke skill on 2~3 keys will work against someone with 1 HP 1 Armor and countless evades.

Sorry to break the bubble – thief alone sure has been crippled, but that’s because Anet prefer to nerf everything except stealth and mobility – which in all honesty is stupid.

Daredevil on the other hand is an example of how to make a class win against anything no matter how much HP and armor it has, because your opponent won’t land a kittenz on you anyway.

I havent done PvP since HoT but i see dagger pistol thief on metabattle, so i guess it still has its place? Is the class still representeted in tournys? In any case it has its role with +1 and moving around, which is better than nothing. I assume this can be trickier in pugs hence all the complaints, but with a solid team u have an easier time (saying this since Anet most likely is against soloq, and wants to push teamq)

wolfgang.3471:

Why does thief initiative system suck and punish us if we miss a CnD?

I believe that almost everyone else would give up their cooldown system for your initiative

Ski Cask.1457:

I believe that almost everyone else would give up their cooldown system for your initiative

I’m a fangirl of a thief who quit long ago. He has been around before it was viable as a D/D thief to use the trickery line = he only had the base amount of initative which is 12 = 2 CnD.
I watched some of these old videos yesterday and wondered why he only did CnD and backstab and not something fancy like death blossom and only occassionally dancing dagger: Because he couldn’t affort anything else. Initative often sounds better than it in reality is, especially with dagger offhand (which seems to miss more often than it hits without evades, blocks or dodges).

well at least there’s some spotted proof about good high level thief beeing good… try warrior, no matter how much you try, you will be at the same level of a one week warrior player: the same useless level.
At least if you try hard you get some goal with thief.
When i play warrior, i feel like the more i try the worst i become.

I think this guy isn’t very good at thief, through a solider ammy on and dodge crit runes on and flip around landing 7k crits while being untouchable lol

Thunderbird.4298:

I think this guy isn’t very good at thief, through a solider ammy on and dodge crit runes on and flip around landing 7k crits while being untouchable lol

You are not going to be getting 7k crits on thief with soldier ammy.