Guild Wars 2

Mesmer being one of many stronger classes at the moment, I am forced ague the folly in adding condition removal to healing shatters in the inspiration trait line. Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear as long as they counter build to it. But this trait only adds make mesmer practically unkillable with condition builds. There is no class that is given 4 heals and 4 condition removal skills without even equipping utilities. The balance I would hope for is similar sustain to other classes abilities in their defensive trait-lines. Otherwise, have it toned down to the other classes and maybe even split this into two traits.

‘Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear’
Stopped reading after this….

Ok I’ll bite. Aside from Null Field and Arcane Thievery, what is another source of burst condition removal?

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Ok I’ll bite. Aside from Null Field and Arcane Thievery, what is another source of burst condition removal?

I forgot Arcane thievery exists…

Exciton.8942:

‘Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear’
Stopped reading after this….

The only decent condi cleanse is the inspiration line. I rarely see or use null field in PvP because it is junk. May be useful for bunker chron but that will soon be dead. Arcane Thievery misses to often for no reason to be useful. If you use inspiration line with marauder amulet then you may feel the high survivability, but you are trading off burst damage and will rarely break a semi-decent bunker type player. I know because I used that build for a long time. Even with zerker amulet it lacks high enough burst in the current meta.

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

Silverkey.2078:

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

Compare this to other classes

Zelulose.8695:

Mesmer being one of many stronger classes at the moment, I am forced ague the folly in adding condition removal to healing shatters in the inspiration trait line. Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear as long as they counter build to it. But this trait only adds make mesmer practically unkillable with condition builds. There is no class that is given 4 heals and 4 condition removal skills without even equipping utilities. The balance I would hope for is similar sustain to other classes abilities in their defensive trait-lines. Otherwise, have it toned down to the other classes and maybe even split this into two traits.

Really!? You want to nerf mesmers again? Saying inspiration condi clear is an issue!? looooool… You know it only clear 1 condition/shatter, and those shatters got cd aswell!

You want to touch our only trait line that acually works well and help with diversity in builds etc…

Stop crying! This is not the time wanting more nerfs for mesmers… They are getting nerfed very hard in upcoming patch…

Nobody will care for your post, and devs will ignore it aswell since it a bit ignorant… I going to try put this simple…

You are wrong! And should try understanding the mesmer class, before asking for nerfs! This must be a l2p issue! If mesmers are annoying you ingame, and you have hard time win vs them, then go play one and try understand it first! Then you will realize 2 things…

1: They are not that “op” as you first thought.

2: Its not that hard to win vs them, once you know what to look for and figuring out their skillset…

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Zelulose.8695:

Mesmer being one of many stronger classes at the moment, I am forced ague the folly in adding condition removal to healing shatters in the inspiration trait line. Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear as long as they counter build to it. But this trait only adds make mesmer practically unkillable with condition builds. There is no class that is given 4 heals and 4 condition removal skills without even equipping utilities. The balance I would hope for is similar sustain to other classes abilities in their defensive trait-lines. Otherwise, have it toned down to the other classes and maybe even split this into two traits.

Really!? You want to nerf mesmers again? Saying inspiration condi clear is an issue!? looooool… You know it only clear 1 condition/shatter, and those shatters got cd aswell!

You want to touch our only trait line that acually works well and help with diversity in builds etc…

Stop crying! This is not the time wanting more nerfs for mesmers… They are getting nerfed very hard in upcoming patch…

Nobody will care for your post, and devs will ignore it aswell since it a bit ignorant… I going to try put this simple…

You are wrong! And should try understanding the mesmer class, before asking for nerfs! This must be a l2p issue! If mesmers are annoying you ingame, and you have hard time win vs them, then go play one and try understand it first! Then you will realize 2 things…

1: They are not that “op” as you first thought.

2: Its not that hard to win vs them, once you know what to look for and figuring out their skillset…

^ This.

Also if you find yourself struggling with identifying mesmer tells there are various posts some I even made myself that describe what a mesmer has to do to achieve any decent level of damage, once you have the knowledge you can work on outplaying it.

If you are talking strictly survivability that trait only really outright deals with burn guardians, and opposing condi mesmes due to having few high stacked conditions. The biggest strength is the potential removal of debilitating condis such as fear/chill/imob, and is over all pretty balanced as makes it so mesmers don’t just die to one stack of bleed if they didn’t take a 30+ sec c/d to counter it. All in all many condi based combatants have no issues pressuring mesmers that are not bunker. Which really bunk mes has been an entirely different issue.

But I mean you get your wish anyways, core mesmer is pretty bad and the nerfs to alacrity on chrono will reduce how frequently a mesmer can shatter.

Also when Mesmer uses shatters ro clear condis/heal, they aren’t using them to deal damage and then they have gone on cooldown for some time.

Silverkey.2078:

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

nice maths man, 0,6 condi cleanse per seconds, alias 1 condi removed every 2 sec…
isnt that enough? How can you whine about it?
and what if that remove condi on shatter would be on hit rather than on use? would be more in line with warrior cleansing ire, and you would start thinking before saying you have no good cleansers.

Shala.8352:

Silverkey.2078:

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

nice maths man, 0,6 condi cleanse per seconds, alias 1 condi removed every 2 sec…
isnt that enough? How can you whine about it?
and what if that remove condi on shatter would be on hit rather than on use? would be more in line with warrior cleansing ire, and you would start thinking before saying you have no good cleansers.

He said he plays a bunker. Basically standing on point cycling through skills while sitting in 2 fields (null and timewarp) with alacrity. Outside of this specific build (which will soon be dead after the next patch) hardly anyone uses null field and timewarp. The numbers presented do not represent the majority of builds, because your damage hits like a wet paper bag.

I play mes and the condi clearing is a atrocious outside of the inspiration line. Even with inspiration clearing multiple conditions on you is a nightmare, and you have to burn through all your shatters in one go to cleanse which means you are wasting a lot of damage. A burst chrono is likely to be rolling with minimal condi clear. There was a time when most mes builds lived on the wire and rolled with no condi clear at all before the buff to condi damage/stacking.

Personally I would like to see some decent condi clearing in other trait lines because at the moment you have to choose too much between damage and condi cleanse. Also access to decent stability if you play power shatter is virtually non-existent which means you have no cc protection at all.

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Zelulose.8695:

Mesmer being one of many stronger classes at the moment, I am forced ague the folly in adding condition removal to healing shatters in the inspiration trait line. Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear as long as they counter build to it. But this trait only adds make mesmer practically unkillable with condition builds. There is no class that is given 4 heals and 4 condition removal skills without even equipping utilities. The balance I would hope for is similar sustain to other classes abilities in their defensive trait-lines. Otherwise, have it toned down to the other classes and maybe even split this into two traits.

Really!? You want to nerf mesmers again? Saying inspiration condi clear is an issue!? looooool… You know it only clear 1 condition/shatter, and those shatters got cd aswell!

You want to touch our only trait line that acually works well and help with diversity in builds etc…

Stop crying! This is not the time wanting more nerfs for mesmers… They are getting nerfed very hard in upcoming patch…

Nobody will care for your post, and devs will ignore it aswell since it a bit ignorant… I going to try put this simple…

You are wrong! And should try understanding the mesmer class, before asking for nerfs! This must be a l2p issue! If mesmers are annoying you ingame, and you have hard time win vs them, then go play one and try understand it first! Then you will realize 2 things…

1: They are not that “op” as you first thought.

2: Its not that hard to win vs them, once you know what to look for and figuring out their skillset…

+1…the only build I managed to make that used reliable-ish condi clear outside of the mandatory shatters is signet… SIGNET for heavens sake… And even then I need to micromanage each single condition I have and decide whether or not its worth cleansing.
I’ll listen when condi amount drops significantly from t the table. Come back to QQ at that point

Then you should play a thief and then a bunker mesmer again, lawl.
A “bunker thief” would be good too.

Vague Memory.2817:

Shala.8352:

Silverkey.2078:

Anyone who plays mesmer in the current meta knows that 1 condi on shatter is not that much…
I play bunker, with:

• 5 condi cleanse on heal = 0.17 condi/s
• 7 condi cleanse on null field = 0.22 condi/s
• 1 condi cleanse on shatter = 0.18 condi/s
• resistance on F5, null field, and sometimes time warp

So in total, about 0.6 condi cleanse/s, a bit more thanks to alacrity (but this is getting nerfed) and a bit less considering that shatters are used for more than just condi cleanse so they are rarely used on CD.

And at the end, I still melt to condi if focused (in particular by reapers corrupting all the boons since I also get boons on shatter).

You should remember also that this is a heavy investment. Condi cleanse is the main reason a mesmer uses inspiration. We don’t get much more out of this trait line than condi cleanse. Remove it and the whole traitline becomes really really weak.

nice maths man, 0,6 condi cleanse per seconds, alias 1 condi removed every 2 sec…
isnt that enough? How can you whine about it?
and what if that remove condi on shatter would be on hit rather than on use? would be more in line with warrior cleansing ire, and you would start thinking before saying you have no good cleansers.

He said he plays a bunker. Basically standing on point cycling through skills while sitting in 2 fields (null and timewarp) with alacrity. Outside of this specific build (which will soon be dead after the next patch) hardly anyone uses null field and timewarp. The numbers presented do not represent the majority of builds, because your damage hits like a wet paper bag.

I play mes and the condi clearing is a atrocious outside of the inspiration line. Even with inspiration clearing multiple conditions on you is a nightmare, and you have to burn through all your shatters in one go to cleanse which means you are wasting a lot of damage. A burst chrono is likely to be rolling with minimal condi clear. There was a time when most mes builds lived on the wire and rolled with no condi clear at all before the buff to condi damage/stacking.

Personally I would like to see some decent condi clearing in other trait lines because at the moment you have to choose too much between damage and condi cleanse. Also access to decent stability if you play power shatter is virtually non-existent which means you have no cc protection at all.

Yes I realize my post did not make a clear point. What my maths showed is that in order to bunker efficiently, bunker chrono use a lot of condi cleanse, only a small proportion coming from shatters. What made bunker chrono really strong was:

• quickness rez/stomp
• shared alacrity (support)
• personal alacrity boosting our personal defenses (block, sword 2, shatters, heal etc…)
• a huge amount of HP + armor to act as a damage sponge

And I use the past tense because the next patch is going to axe all of that by a lot. The viability of bunker chrono after this patch is possible but far from obvious. And the sad part is that outside of this build, chrono don’t have much. Power shatter is in the same situation as thief currently (but won’t receive any buffs), condi shatter may receive buffs, but it will hardly put up the same amount of condis that reaper or condi rev can provide (we have only 2 real condis). There are also some interesting interrupt-slow build, which is currently unviable because of the passive stability (rev+bunker mes) + “eye for an eye”, but depending on the patch may be remotely viable.

So no need for additional nerfs, mesmer is not in a good spot right now.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Ok I’ll bite. Aside from Null Field and Arcane Thievery, what is another source of burst condition removal?

To be fair, we have Mantra of Resolve.

Exciton.8942:

‘Mesmers have always had practically perfect condition clear’
Stopped reading after this….

I did a spit take myself lmao