Guild Wars 2

I see a lot of people complaining about this and saw some of the insane burst available using it while dueling so I tried it out.

At first I couldn’t replicate it but found that if you are able to (via being twitch or awesome) do your Shatters in a specific order and all while 3 clones were active or created after this first shatter, that you can get 20+ stacks of might and a pretty nuts AOE combo. The target of which is confused, dazed while you evade dmg.

I’ll be honest here, I hate playing Mesmer when asked. I can see why people ask though since this combo is ridiculous.

Not sure of a suggested fix but 3 stacks per clone per shatter is a little much.

PS. You only burn one utility to do the combo if you are twitch enough. My Area of Concentration Resulted in an Obvious way to do it.

Thank you for reading.

PS. Buff warriors

I think it’s time for devs to explain the thought process behind this change and what the plan is to remedy the problem. Everyone is hating this. Even mesmers.

So can anyone actually explain this combo? Would like a link to a build to =p I can never get more then 15 stack

Pretty much everyone with serious s/tPvP experience was baffled by this change, including Mesmer players. If the goal was to promote build diversity, it makes no sense at all to buff a trait used by the already dominant build.

Illuminati.2683:

PS. Buff warriors

Agreed 100000%.

SHAZAM!

oxy clean

Defektive.7283:

SHAZAM!

oxy clean

lol.

Your spider sense must have tingled something fierce to bring you back to these forums from playing your pyro due to a thread title having SHAZAM in it followed by a buff warriors comment in the OP.

:P

I’m a mesmer and I don’t hate shattered strength at all. I’ve been really enjoying being able to actually generate a decent amount of offensive buffs for a change. Thank you Anet for finally giving us something nice. Please leave shattered strength as it is, thanks.

Israel.7056:

I’m a mesmer and I don’t hate shattered strength at all. I’ve been really enjoying being able to actually generate a decent amount of offensive buffs for a change. Thank you Anet for finally giving us something nice. Please leave shattered strength as it is, thanks.

Posts like this only perpetuate disproportion of class to class strength.

Snip.6138:

Posts like this only perpetuate disproportion of class to class strength.

Perhaps there is no disproportion and you’re just as biased about this issue as I am.

You obviously don’t agree with the changes and I obviously do agree with them.

Luckily it’s not for either one of us to decide. I would hope that Anet developers don’t use the forums to determine what to do with their game.

However, in the off-chance that the developers actually are reading any of this and taking it to heart, please Anet don’t listen to the forum qq and leave shattered strength as it is.

Israel.7056:

Snip.6138:

Posts like this only perpetuate disproportion of class to class strength.

Perhaps there is no disproportion and you’re just as biased about this issue as I am.

You obviously don’t agree with the changes and I obviously do agree with them.

Luckily it’s not for either one of us to decide. I would hope that Anet developers don’t use the forums to determine what to do with their game.

However, in the off-chance that the developers actually are reading any of this and taking it to heart, please Anet don’t listen to the forum qq and leave shattered strength as it is.

this post, after the tons of threads about QQthief op make me sad.

Shukran.4851:

Israel.7056:

Snip.6138:

Posts like this only perpetuate disproportion of class to class strength.

Perhaps there is no disproportion and you’re just as biased about this issue as I am.

You obviously don’t agree with the changes and I obviously do agree with them.

Luckily it’s not for either one of us to decide. I would hope that Anet developers don’t use the forums to determine what to do with their game.

However, in the off-chance that the developers actually are reading any of this and taking it to heart, please Anet don’t listen to the forum qq and leave shattered strength as it is.

this post, after the tons of threads about QQthief op make me sad.

Usually it’s ok to whine bout thieves but it’s not about everything else….seems legit..btw i don’t feel that those shatter mez are so op, you can still easily bring them down with some dazes…funny thing is that you see like 3 max 4 thieves in hotjoin now, but mesmers are everywhere….well at last “more everywhere” than before…and rangers too xD

Israel.7056:

Thank you Anet for finally giving us something nice. Please leave shattered strength as it is, thanks.

Wait just a sec…so you’re saying that mesmers where bad before patch? Seriously? The most powerful pvp class was actually bad without this? u.u

This is gona be nerfed one day for sure and Anet will say it was really a bug that it worked this way just like they did for evasive arcana which was cleary op and still is very strong after the nerf, its just a shame we are going to have to put up with this crap meanwhile. The mesmers defending it remind me very much of those eles who were complaining they are nothing without EA and in a way it was true, if u tried to make a build without it u were just shooting yourself in the foot and the fact ppl still call ele overpowered just shows how unbalanced that build was.

We now have a class with the strongest team fight elite (time warp, guardian book being close second) with one of the best utilities (portal) and an even stronger burst than before, any team not taking this into the fight is just making things harder for themselves and so is every mesmer not taking shatered strenght….

I’m interested in the position on macro’ing.

Pyrial.2917:

I’m interested in the position on macro’ing.

Macros were not allowed in gw1….i remember some ppl got banned for using skill macros on G15 keyboards, because it could be seen as botting, i have to say i agree with that because a bot is something that sends keystrokes instead of the human player…if you press a key and something sends a series of keys to the game bounded to that one, well…it can be called bot because you’re not pressing those by yourself…the keyboard\macro program is doing it for you…. Btw in gw1 I never felt the need to use macros even into high end pvp…like almost everyone i know…

Not mentioning allowing the use of this programs/hardwares for macroing is going to umbalance the game for the ones who don’t own one…if you have one well, just don’t use macros here, if anet wants can easily detect macros by calculating the time between keystrokes…if it’s the same (In the order of tenths of a second) for every combo’s skill everytime you do it..it’s pretty obvious you’re using a program to “press” buttons…

Usually, not only in gw1 the rule is: 1press = 1action.

Would be nice to hear some dev’s opinions about macro programs…

I’m confused. Is the OP implying you can get 20+ stacks off of 1 shatter 3 clones (as in some sort of glitch?) or is he just saying that its easy to get 20 stacks (ie off of 2 shatters + something else giving might stacks like the sigil that gives u 3 on swap?)

I was out wandering around in the wvw map after doing the jumping puzzle daily… I like to stalk a few victims before doing the pve daily before doing the spvp daily. Anyways I find another mesmer, I am a mesmer too. Now I dont know about all this shatter buisness… frankly I hardly even use my shatter utilities. Point is that this guy… opens up on me with some shatter combo while im not even looking at the screen, I target, wtf stacks of might on him… so naturally… Arcane Thievery and kill him pretty smooth with GS/S/S.

I run a real wonky build tho, definately not you run of the mill min maxers style fotm.

20(V,X)/30(IV,III,X)/10(V)/10(VI)/0

Full power, precision, condition damage gear 4Xrune of mesmer 2Xrune of vampireism

blink/decoy/arcane theivery/massinvisibility(moamorph is for losers)

attack my clones if you dare, and good luck laying a glove on me.

Meanwhile I’m lifeblasting my life away on my necro to gain 1 stack of might for 3 secs.

Archaon.6245:

Wait just a sec…so you’re saying that mesmers where bad before patch? Seriously? The most powerful pvp class was actually bad without this? u.u

I have not said this.

I do not know if mesmer is the most powerful pvp class. Obviously you seem to think it is but you are hardly in a position to make such an evaluation. I think the most powerful pvp class depends more on the context of the fight (terrain, type of opposition etc) than just the skills on a hotbar.

What I said was that Mesmers have been getting progressively toned down since I’ve started playing them.

This is the first time they’ve actually given me a new toy to play with instead of just taking my old toys away.

It is for this I am thankful. I really like the way shattered strength works now. I do think there are some popular misconceptions about the functionality of stacking as much might as possible in as short a time as possible. To do so limits the functionality of the shatter mesmer since all he will have is auto attacks for the duration of the buff. It also makes the mesmer very vulnerable in the case of boon strips. I think the more intelligent approach is to steadily rotate shatters to maintain a consistent, albeit not-as-high might buff.

I have also seen people complain about the use of signet of inspiration in conjunction with shattered strength. On first glance this seems like an obvious synergy. However, I offer some things to consider. Firstly, any signet other than signet of illusions could most adequately be described as a tell. A mesmer with signet of inspiration on his bar is the real mesmer guaranteed. Secondly, the recharge timer on signet of inspiration is 45 seconds. So after the mesmer has shared his might stacks with his teammates he’s basically just sitting there. Thirdly, in order to use signet of inspiration, a mesmer has to choose to get rid of some other crucial utility. Perhaps decoy, null field, mirror images, blink, portal or illusion of life. These are all utilities which, imo, can be absolutely crucial. So to sacrifice any of them is a very serious decision. This sacrifice is made to be able to give removable might stacks to his team every 45 seconds all the while carrying a buff on his bar that says: this one is the real one.

Just some things which I think are worth considering.

Israel.7056:

Archaon.6245:

Wait just a sec…so you’re saying that mesmers where bad before patch? Seriously? The most powerful pvp class was actually bad without this? u.u

I have not said this.

I do not know if mesmer is the most powerful pvp class. Obviously you seem to think it is but you are hardly in a position to make such an evaluation. I think the most powerful pvp class depends more on the context of the fight (terrain, type of opposition etc) than just the skills on a hotbar.

What I said was that Mesmers have been getting progressively toned down since I’ve started playing them.

This is the first time they’ve actually given me a new toy to play with instead of just taking my old toys away.

It is for this I am thankful. I really like the way shattered strength works now. I do think there are some popular misconceptions about the functionality of stacking as much might as possible in as short a time as possible. To do so limits the functionality of the shatter mesmer since all he will have is auto attacks for the duration of the buff. It also makes the mesmer very vulnerable in the case of boon strips. I think the more intelligent approach is to steadily rotate shatters to maintain a consistent, albeit not-as-high might buff.

I have also seen people complain about the use of signet of inspiration in conjunction with shattered strength. On first glance this seems like an obvious synergy. However, I offer some things to consider. Firstly, any signet other than signet of illusions could most adequately be described as a tell. A mesmer with signet of inspiration on his bar is the real mesmer guaranteed. Secondly, the recharge timer on signet of inspiration is 45 seconds. So after the mesmer has shared his might stacks with his teammates he’s basically just sitting there. Thirdly, in order to use signet of inspiration, a mesmer has to choose to get rid of some other crucial utility. Perhaps decoy, null field, mirror images, blink, portal or illusion of life. These are all utilities which, imo, can be absolutely crucial. So to sacrifice any of them is a very serious decision. This sacrifice is made to be able to give removable might stacks to his team every 45 seconds all the while carrying a buff on his bar that says: this one is the real one.

Just some things which I think are worth considering.

so…for you giving your team 25 stacks of might every 45 secs and maybe aoe quickness with time warp it’s ok? Potentially to the whole team? 5 ppl with 25 stacks of might and quickness every 3 minutes and half?And ppl still complain bout thieves’s single target counterable bursts…seriously? It’s like a dam freakin’ army of doom…you call this balanced? Really?

lol @ giving your team 25 stacks of might. you can tell which people are theorycrafting and don’t actually know how to play a mesmer at all. that would be a pretty awful way to play.

Yukishiro.8792:

lol @ giving your team 25 stacks of might. you can tell which people are theorycrafting and don’t actually know how to play a mesmer at all. that would be a pretty awful way to play.

ok let’s be more realistic…let’s figure out a contested center point at the beginning ..3vs3…basically a mesmer can go in, shatter clones dealing an huge aoe dmg on the point, and after that sharing around 18 stacks of might to the other 2 mates, maybe dropping time warp….and please, don’t say it’s not possible to do…because one did it just a couple of hours ago in tpvp vs me and my team at keep…so we had dps thief downed, the guardian with almost half hp gone and a necro (Thanks god he had ds on) with all ds hp vanished, and, after that, they had to face a mez, a guardian and a thief with almost full hp, no cds, a kittenload of might and quickness..2vs3 (The downed thief got quickness stomped as soon he went down)….you’re right i play mesmer just for fun..i don’t like the class at all, and probably you are much more competent than me on that, but mind wrack and might sharing work…probably even too much..
……yes you can dodge, you can mitigate stuff…but here’s the main difference between thief’s burst (Appaently soo broken) and mesmer’s: you can evade a single target burst like bs, or at last one is going down and the thief is going to die but, an aoe burst with a dmg comparable to bs on a point where you have to stay, with a way shorter cd than bs, while the mesmer on bf is not going to take a single dmg being ready to buff other mates with a ton of might, able to do that aoe burst multiple times during a single point fight and still having the most powerful elitè in the game ready to make the carnage worse if needed…..well…isn’t a bit too much for a single class?

Archaon.6245:

so…for you giving your team 25 stacks of might every 45 secs and maybe aoe quickness with time warp it’s ok? Potentially to the whole team? 5 ppl with 25 stacks of might and quickness every 3 minutes and half?And ppl still complain bout thieves’s single target counterable bursts…seriously? It’s like a dam freakin’ army of doom…you call this balanced? Really?

The might stacks are nothing that a necro well or a well placed null field can’t get rid of very quickly. Incidentally those wells and null field are on the same cd as signet of inspiration. The same cannot be said for ele and guardian boons since they’re so easily restacked. Also I don’t know if generating and transferring 25 stacks is even feasible, I’d like to see video proof of a mesmer generating that many might stacks by himself. The most I’ve been able to reliably generate and transfer is between 9-12 because of the time it takes to generate clones and land full shatters. Sometimes I can get 18 but that’s if everything goes perfectly. Perhaps with elementalist and/or guardian support 25 is doable, but then elementalists and guardians can generate more boons much more quickly than a mesmer can and they can both do it far more frequently. Time warp is strong but it has a very long cd. In a tournament match it’s probably only going to get used once, maybe twice if the match is long. An ele can share auras as frequently as mesmer can use signet of inspiration and keep his entire team buffed every attunement swap. They can also set up combo fields fairly easily with ring of fire being on such a short cd. Guardians can provide a lot of consistent support as well. I don’t really understand the engineer class very well but I’ve seen them generate lots of boons as well though I don’t understand the class mechanics well enough to speak more about it in depth.

In a pvp match there are things happening every second not just every 45 seconds and 180 seconds. Those other seconds matter too when considering balance.

Keeping that in mind, yes I think shattered strength is balanced. I think signet of inspiration is balanced.

Shattered strength is not the main factor in why the dominate build is so dominate. The real question is why didn’t they address the issues that make the current dominate build so over the top.

It makes me wonder if they really sit on a table and discuss class balance. They also buffed thieve’s by improving stealth running speed.. as if catching a thief wasn’t hard enough. What gives? :S

I’ve been an avid defender of Anet and balance since launch, and even as an Engineer, I still think Thieves are mostly a joke. The vast majority of them can’t fight 1v1, and the ones that can, would have probably beat me with another profession anyway, because they are good players.

But even with all that, that’s all a thief does. Damage, and speed. That’s pretty much it.

Anet just took the profession that requires the most focus to “find the mesmer” throughout the fight, has stealth, has portals, and already good damage and good survivability, and buffed them to a place where even my tankiest specs can’t take their damage.

The problem is that, in theory, yes, it’s easy to find the mesmer, and easy to dodge their clones… but PvP often leads you into tight areas where you are forced to fight the camera angles along with the mesmer, or your areas to dodge are limited.

I’ll be honest, I’ve felt competitive against every other profession, I’ve received compliments many times for playing a good Engineer despite their shortcomings with damage… I’ve no clue what to do against these mesmers.

I’m approaching 2000 matches in PvP and I’ve never had anything I would consider a problem until now. I guess I’m just “bad”, but if that’s true, I must have just suddenly gotten bad since the last patch.

I was 3-shot by a thief last night. My ranger friend gets 1-2 shot by thieves on a constant basis. Also, warrior 15K kill shot on 9 sec cd is outrageous.

Thanks J for the quick response, lots of love.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

I sure hope you will split this “fix” or this “nerf” into “pvp-only”, because in pve, it’s the first time mesmers can deal dmg!

And let me add a question:
Is it the bug mentioned in the other Thread you are going to fix or are you taking away the newly granted might or just simple damage nerf?

PvP split, please….

Jonathan, please let mesmers in pve stay competitive and viable!
Change whatever you think you must change, but please split more into pvp and pve versions. Consider that there exist also a lot of pve mesmers who want to contribute in group fightings with other players in DEs, dungeons and openworld.
Thanks. <3

Zenith.7301:

PvP split, please….

No, You can stack an absurd amount of crit damage in PvE gear, if anything, this is too much (for WvW) too (and even worse).

Ontopic, good to see this getting adressed (hopefully). Only if you aknowledged other borderly broken builds…

live tournaments lol, the optimism is blinding them

Mr. Sharp, does that include macros that guilds use to spam Guild ads? I see alot of them being spammed from time to time.

Khenzy.9348:

Zenith.7301:

PvP split, please….

No, You can stack an absurd amount of crit damage in PvE gear, if anything, this is too much (for WvW) too (and even worse).

So the Thief can still roam free as the undisputed living god in WvW, spiking people where they like from stealth; but a Mesmer (that needs to build himself up to that level first and can be countered easily) needs a nerf? Funny…

Hey! Someone at ANet said something! Keep it up guys! We need you!

can u please remove/nerf portal, it’s stupid that the reason we are needed in a tourny is because of 1 op utility.
then we can see where we really stand in group fights / roaming.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: <snip>

@ Macros: <snip>

Where’s the ‘@buff Warrior: <snip>’ ?

=)

Aveneo.2068:

Khenzy.9348:

Zenith.7301:

PvP split, please….

No, You can stack an absurd amount of crit damage in PvE gear, if anything, this is too much (for WvW) too (and even worse).

So the Thief can still roam free as the undisputed living god in WvW, spiking people where they like from stealth; but a Mesmer (that needs to build himself up to that level first and can be countered easily) needs a nerf? Funny…

I hope they realize how ridiculous thieves are in wvw.theyre bearable in spvp but the infinite stealth and evasion, and godly burst are just getting silly

leman.7682:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: <snap>

@ Macros: <snap>

Where’s the ‘@buff Warrior: <snap>’ ?

=)

Indeed, and the ‘@buff Thief: <snap>’

Khenzy.9348:

Zenith.7301:

PvP split, please….

No, You can stack an absurd amount of crit damage in PvE gear, if anything, this is too much (for WvW) too (and even worse).

Ontopic, good to see this getting adressed (hopefully). Only if you aknowledged other borderly broken builds…

You are aware that WvW is a form of PvP and not PvE correct?

The game should already be balanced separately between PvE and PvP. PvE mobs get stronger as content continues to be released, players do not (barring patch buffs).

While maintaining high stacks of might could be considered unbalanced against other players (where maximum possible hp that might be encountered is around 80k), it’s basically a necessity in the more difficult dungeons and fractals.

THANK YOU JSharp. Finally you are opening your eyes.

what about macros that say let you respond in chat? If limited to that would that be acceptable? There are times I wish I could hit a keybind and respond to a question quickly.

Sarcasmic.6741:

You are aware that WvW is a form of PvP and not PvE correct?

Logically, yes, systemically, no. All WvW maps are considered PvE environments. Any ability that has different effects in PvE versus PvP will use the PvE version of the ability in WvW.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

My question is do you actually have a system in place for dealing with said macro’s other than relying on the community to report the problem for you?

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Think you could fix the bug thats causing the extra 100% Mind Wrack damage, BEFORE you start making changes to the rest of the Mesmer class? Just so you know, to see how things compare without that exploit/bug?

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

When you say you intend to address this change I assume you mean “adjust it in a downward direction”? I don’t actually disagree with this. The burst damage for several classes in this game seems to be getting out of hand. Thiefs, Warriors, Mesmers now, are all capable of killing an opponent before they have time to react. Will you be addressing the fact that Mesmers aren’t the only class that can produce this damage in such a short amount of time?

From a PvE standpoint as well, Mesmers really aren’t that bad, it is just that so many other classes outshine us in DPS and there really isn’t another role to be played in dungeons/fractals for reasonable ROI.

MLieBennett.9031:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

Think you could fix the bug thats causing the extra 100% Mind Wrack damage, BEFORE you start making changes to the rest of the Mesmer class? Just so you know, to see how things compare without that exploit/bug?

QFMFT

I like shattered strength the way it is in PVE. It allows me to actually keep up for once in DWE’s and provides a dynamic playstyle (you have to monitor and keep up might).

I’d like to see mind wrack toned down instead, maybe moved into partial condition damage (explode then stack x bleed for y seconds.. heck, the condition could depend on the shatter used, Diversion could stack weakness, CoF could blind.)

This would cause optimal gear for shatter builds to move from berserker to rampager gear, and tone down burst by this virtue as well with pretty much zero pve dps negatives.