Guild Wars 2

I read a comment 1 minute ago, and i suddenly saw the light.

SHELTER IS ABSOLUTELY NOT BALANCED.

You can’t interrupt this healing skill, and on a full cleric guardian it heals for about 50% of its HP.

While blocking everything for more than 1 sec.

A guardian will heal no matters as hard EVEN 3 PEOPLE are focusing him ( the only way to stop it is with an unbloackable reaper mark).

This skill should be removed: this is one of the main reasons( along with bunker guard great support) why a guard has been there at the top of the food chain from day 1.

You can’t interrupt Withdraw either or be hit during it.
I aint even mad.

I hope you’re trolling.

On a serious note – you can interrupt it. Corrupt boon if he has stability, or an unblockable fear mark will do the trick.
Also, “50% of its HP” is still 5.3k so it’s not a big deal.

However, I hope, balance team will keep in mind that bunker guardian actually IS unbalanced due to amount of survivability and tone it down accordingly alongside lowering general dmg output we all await.

Also, like ensoriki just said – withdraw is the only skill you cannot interrupt and on top of thakittens instant (+evade +control condi removal +supershort recharge to trigger all “on heal” bonuses).

ensoriki.5789:

You can’t interrupt Withdraw either or be hit during it.
I aint even mad.

It’s different.

Withdraw is istant cast and evades for 3/4 sec, on the squishiest class in the game.

Usually withdraw is the only sustain any competitive thief build will ever achieve ( unless you play cruuk’s build).

Shelter has been there from day 1, along with guardian, at the top of the food chain for a reason.

Withdraw is on the squishiest class, shelter is on the toughest class BY DESIGN.

Sir, you are clueless.
Guardians used the signet for a LONG time, simply because Shelter healing ability is/was kitten. It turned the other way around when power/burst meta came.
Thief is by no means squishiest class (evade, evade, evade, puff) and 2 second of block, whereas the person cannot do anything else is not a dealbreaker by any means.
Since you don’t really get it – I sadly have only advice – get good and work around it.

This heal can block more HP/S then Healing Signet can heal for.

Obviously needs a nerf based off everyone’s whines.

If you don’t attack it will not block anything – seriously, get good and avoid people blocking with an obvious animation.

sid.9870:

If you don’t attack it will not block anything – seriously, get good and avoid people blocking with an obvious animation.

Yeah, because the guardian is the only one who will ever be on the point, and AoE is absolutely not used.

Moreover it’s ridicolous that due to a skill blocking for a second and half, you need to waste so much time in order to kill a guardian.

You’re simply afraid this could actually balance things a little, since NO OTHER CLASS comes to the bunkerability of a guardian, all packed up with super support .

Guardian has been silently OP for too much time, it’s time to nerf.

You can interrupt shelter, but it relies on two factors.

1. The guardian using it when he has stability.

2. A necro corrupting him, with stability up while he is healing.

I am pretty sure this only works with necros because Corrupt Boon is unblockable, so is Well of Corruption.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

You can interrupt shelter, but it relies on two factors.

1. The guardian using it when he has stability.

2. A necro corrupting him, with stability up while he is healing.

I am pretty sure this only works with necros because Corrupt Boon is unblockable, so is Well of Corruption.

And how is this considered balanced ?

Again, the only comparison can be done with thief withdraw, and we all know the answer:

A: the thief will get 2 shotted by burst damage as soon as he gets CCed

B: thief has no access to defensive boon

C: thief cannot be built defensive without being completely useless.

There’s no way to take advantage of withdraw for bunkerability, shelter in comparison is totally broken, and it is.

That makes it plenty balanced. While its “annoying” to deal with only dealing power damage, condi damage still can go through shelter. Ideally, in this meta, everyone is doing condi damage, so Shelter really isn’t helping him all that much, especially when condis are already applied.

Mrbig.8019:

I read a comment 1 minute ago, and i suddenly saw the light.

SHELTER IS ABSOLUTELY NOT BALANCED.

You can’t interrupt this healing skill, and on a full cleric guardian it heals for about 50% of its HP.

While blocking everything for more than 1 sec.

A guardian will heal no matters as hard EVEN 3 PEOPLE are focusing him ( the only way to stop it is with an unbloackable reaper mark).

This skill should be removed: this is one of the main reasons( along with bunker guard great support) why a guard has been there at the top of the food chain from day 1.

Signet of Strength and other unblockable skills like LS/FS.

Far from OP. I would even dare to say it sucks, compared to its sisters. Lets make a comparison, shall we?

Signet of Resolve x Shelter

- Signet of Resolve has a 40 seconds cd, heals for 8150 at lv 80, has a condition removal passive effect, if you are interrupted or dodge in midcast for some reason, it won’t go on full cd.

- Shelter has a 30 seconds cd, heals for 4500 at lv 80, doesn’t remove conditions, if you are interrupted or dodge in midcast, it goes on full cd without healing you a thing

And I don’t need to mention how signet is affected by traits, right?

So, it’s 2 seconds block really worth it for only 10 seconds difference on cd? I don’t think so, and I can’t understand why would anyone pick it over the signet.

EDIT: Funny fact of the day, the number “four hundred and fifty five” is censored on this forum. kitten

It’s a good healing skill but it can be interrupted with any pull and of course the necro mark. The block duration is not too long for its cooldown.

It’s been kind of fun to see more dps guardians recently.

On a full cleric bunker guard with Soldier runes, it heals for about 1/3 of my HP.

A healing skill like this which is hard to interrupt is pretty vital on a bunker with such a small HP pool. If we didn’t have Shelter, we’d need the next tier up of base HP in order to survive sufficiently in 1vX situations. Honestly, it’s not just a Guardian’s survivability that makes them strong in comparison to bunker builds of other classes. It’s that we can survive well against physical damage, condition damage, burst, and we give good boon support and condi clears in a teamfight while also having the Stability to get stomps/resses and keep ourselves on point. Other bunker builds are lacking in one or more of these aspects, and should be buffed to have some more of these tools, because so far Guardian is the only class that achieves a critical mass of them.

tl;dr: Guardians aren’t overpowered and in need of a nerf, bunker builds for other classes just need a buff!

cymerdown.4103:

On a full cleric bunker guard with Soldier runes, it heals for about 1/3 of my HP.

A healing skill like this which is hard to interrupt is pretty vital on a bunker with such a small HP pool. If we didn’t have Shelter, we’d need the next tier up of base HP in order to survive sufficiently in 1vX situations. Honestly, it’s not just a Guardian’s survivability that makes them strong in comparison to bunker builds of other classes. It’s that we can survive well against physical damage, condition damage, burst, and we give good boon support and condi clears in a teamfight while also having the Stability to get stomps/resses and keep ourselves on point. Other bunker builds are lacking in one or more of these aspects, and should be buffed to have some more of these tools, because so far Guardian is the only class that achieves a critical mass of them.

tl;dr: Guardians aren’t overpowered and in need of a nerf, bunker builds for other classes just need a buff!

We have enough power creep already.

As i said it, shelter gives guardians the chance to survive even against 3 enemies for a good shot ( i’ve seen countless time them surviving a combined burst then just using shelter and surviving again for another minute if not more) and , as you may understand, shelter is REALLY vital for them.

This is all packed up with the best team support this game has, SYG in primis.

It’s time to bring it down, and it’s the only way to make other bunkers possible.

Not only, it would led to the needed buffs in damage/mobility department since a guard has always been a bunker a nothing else, totally neglecting all other possible builds.

It would only led benefits for both guardians and the game.

Neither shelter nor withdrawal are overpowered. Arguing either side is just silly.

Withdraw is OP as hell. Incredibly short cd heal with root/snare clear and built in evade to boot.

Shelter at least is a 30 sec cd.

Shelter is easily countered, obviously you’ve never played Guardian.

Basilisk Venom + Shadow shot/Larcenous Strike
or Greater marks +Reaper’s Mark
or Corrupt Boon + Stability
or Magnet
= GG guardian?

But they do lack reasonable counterplay.

I would prefer something like gives aegis at the start and end of the cast and reduce the cd to 25s. In that case it is at least possible for classes outside the necro to interrupt it.

Fourth.1567:

But they do lack reasonable counterplay.

I would prefer something like gives aegis at the start and end of the cast and reduce the cd to 25s. In that case it is at least possible for classes outside the necro to interrupt it.

Thanks god someone understands me.

Mrbig.8019:

We have enough power creep already.

As i said it, shelter gives guardians the chance to survive even against 3 enemies for a good shot ( i’ve seen countless time them surviving a combined burst then just using shelter and surviving again for another minute if not more) and , as you may understand, shelter is REALLY vital for them.

This is all packed up with the best team support this game has, SYG in primis.

It’s time to bring it down, and it’s the only way to make other bunkers possible.

Not only, it would led to the needed buffs in damage/mobility department since a guard has always been a bunker a nothing else, totally neglecting all other possible builds.

It would only led benefits for both guardians and the game.

First of all, if all you’re buffing is unplayable specs (and almost all bunker specs that aren’t Guardian are unplayable), then it’s not really power creep. Power creep is where you keep increasing the power of all the top playable builds across the board over time, and that’s not what’s happening. It’s actually the opposite, the overall power of playable builds has gone down since release (and for good reason, the age of insta burst is almost behind us outside of the long cd scepter/dagger burst combo, and good riddance).

This scenario you speak of, with 3 people beating on a guardian, him blocking all the burst with shelter, and then living “for a minute or more” afterward, I can’t say I’ve ever had happen to me in a top tier tourney match in my thousands of hours of pvp experience. A good bunker guard vs 3 good dps will not live more than 20 seconds, and that’s if the guard starts that 20 seconds with full CDs. They’ll live less than that usually if any aggressive elite gets used.

Lastly, nerfing bunker guard in some way won’t suddenly increase the viability of all the unplayable mid bunker builds. People will just roll with 5 dps and a bunch of res utils and enough personal stab/invulns. There’s no mid bunker build that’s barely on the edge of playable if only bunker guard wouldn’t be so darn good, with recently the possible exception of war after the latest changes but I haven’t gotten much chance to test it since then. The other remotely close candidate is engi, but they weren’t there yet before the elixir r nerf and certainly aren’t there after it.

Guards right now die faster than ever before. I agree that shelter is clearly their best heal, but I’d suggest that buffing signets passive or making the unplayable healing breeze playable would be a better solution. I also agree with Ken that having other options for midbunker would be nice, but I think it would be a balancing task of epic proportions. Also guard DPS specs would probably then need a buff. They’re fine for 1v1s right now, but for teamplay there’s too much crossover with what the bunker is already providing. Or if they’re playing the right handed strength burster, they’re basically a one trick pony that gets instagibbed whenever someone sneezes. It is a funny trick though.

Is this a serious thread?

Aza.2105:

Signet of Strength and other unblockable skills like LS/FS.

Yeah well, the only way LS can ever hope to interrupt Shelter is to :
- Cast Flanking Strike which is blockable
- Use elite Basilisk Venom
- Hit the guardian with Flanking Strike while BV charge is available

IE, it’ll not happen, ever. Only chance of that happening is if you somehow precasted LS and BV before you see the guardian use shelter. IE, if you are psychic or lucky.

Only possibility is to make the guardian walk on the knockdown trap, if he doesn’t have stability up. I suppose you could see the guardian casting shelter, instantly steal his stability and quickly put the trap directly on him. The casting times for all that means it’ll not happen either.

Does the OP even play guardian to say that shelter is not balanced?
And, imagine that, with the guardian “elite” skill – it amounts to a whopping 3s+ of invincibility.

You forgot that guardians can also pop Aegis to block 1 (one) of the next skills of the 3 people surrounding them who are probably spamming skills like crazy.
I calculated this with a scientific method (not…) and Aegis will add 0.001s of invincibility.

In conclusion, Guardians have a grand total of 3.251s of invincibility, then the guardian drops within the next second.

Frankly I wouldn’t be against discussing the skill “shelter” in the future, but not in the current damage heavy meta.

Hahaha, no.

Guardian is the premier bunker because of unparalleled group support and multiple sources of group stability. Not because of a healing skill that actually takes skill and timing to be effective.

By your logic, we should also remove Endure Pain because OMG warriors can 100blades while not taking direct damage!

If you’re having trouble vs. Shelter, it’s a “learn to play” issue. Don’t have everyone unload everything into the guardian at once. They WILL block it. When you see the highly telegraphed shelter animation, just stop attacking for a couple seconds and do something else like reset or get a better position. It’s not hard.

Shelter is fine. The Guardian is fine. Everything else needs to be brought up (or down) to the Guardian’s level.

You can use signet of might to interrupt it.

Oh wait that’s a warrior skill.

I’ll get my coat.

lol…warriors.

Shelter: 30s CD that has no way of being reduced. 2s Block, also no way to extend the block. Lower heal than the signet, and the signet can be traited to 32s CD. Shelter can also be pierced by unblockable attacks like traited Necro marks, and warrior’s signet.

Shelter is a good skill, but it’s strength is wasted unless the guardian uses it to purposely block a burst.

You say it heals 50% HP on a CLERIC’S guard? Yeah, it does. Cleric guards also have ~12k hp and are literally 0 threat to ANYONE in terms of killing power.

This thread has to be a joke.

Mrbig.8019:

ensoriki.5789:

You can’t interrupt Withdraw either or be hit during it.
I aint even mad.

It’s different.

Withdraw is istant cast and evades for 3/4 sec, on the squishiest class in the game.

Usually withdraw is the only sustain any competitive thief build will ever achieve ( unless you play cruuk’s build).

Shelter has been there from day 1, along with guardian, at the top of the food chain for a reason.

Withdraw is on the squishiest class, shelter is on the toughest class BY DESIGN.

You can interrupt Shelter. Unblockable Marks, Wail of Doom, Magnet Pull, anything that can go through blocks. And when you interrupt it, it goes on a FULL COOLDOWN. None of those things can interrupt Withdraw and even if you manage to somehow interrupt it, it will be back up in 3 seconds, which one were you saying is balanced again?

Shelter is easily interrupted by Reaper’s Mark.

You can be stunned by Static Field and interrupted.

In can be interrupted by Wail of Doom.

In can be interrupted by Tripwire.

I can be interrupted by Magnet.

It can be interrupted by using Basilisk Venom and an unblockable skill like Larcenous Strike, or a Thief trap.

It can be interrupted by Corrupt Boon if you have Stability at the time.

Shelter can be interrupted through any number of Warrior Daze/Knockdown/Launch/Stun/Push skills if they use Signet of Might.

It can be interrupted by an accidental dodge and goes on full cooldown.

I’m sure I’ve seen it interrupted by either Spectral Wall or the proc from Nightmare runes also.

There are plenty of ways to interrupt this skill, and when you do you stop all the blocks, and put the heal on a 30s cooldown. Get good skill spammer.

Oh and it can be interrupted by ‘Pull’ 2nd component of Guardian GS Binding Blades.

BobbyT.7192:

Basilisk Venom + Shadow shot/Larcenous Strike
or Greater marks +Reaper’s Mark
or Corrupt Boon + Stability
or Magnet
= GG guardian?

+1
And MrBig: Do I understand you correctly: You want to avoid, that a class can be focused, and even more no one should have the ability to heal un-interrupted? If that is the case, why don’t you look at your own class? This has to be a diversion … you can’t be serious.
I mean … seriously .. of all the things, that needs to be looked at, this is WAY down the list. I still believe S/D-thieves belong in the top-3 on that list.

Shelter is certainly one of the best heals in the game, but it isn’t imbalanced. If anything one could argue that other professions (like Mesmer or ele) need more utility like this in their #6 skill rather than passive and/or ground target effects. The full cool down on rupt really helps to balance the impact of this skill and heavily rewards skilled interrupt play. If there were no unblockable interrupts it would be a balance issue, but since there are a number of ways to interrupt Shelter I don’t see it as a problem, particularly because the amount of healing it does is pretty meh. The value of the skill is in the block. Without the blocking every guard would use the signet (even without the traited CD), and it wouldn’t even be close.

If you have a beef with Guardian, then the closest thing to an imbalanced is their unrivalled ability to buff teammates (particularly with stability), but it is a pretty big stretch to say that Guards are over the top. A Cleric guardian has incredibly poor damage capability and can’t win a 1v1 against pretty much anything (even builds that aren’t viable), they have no mobility what so ever, an they have a weak down state. It is a one trick pony that buys time on a node to make sure that you can get even numbers or better to a team fight. It can’t do anything else really.