Guild Wars 2

Elementalist probably has the least build diversity of any class in the entire game. Do you think that elementalist should get a damage build, even if it is as mediocre as power mesmer, condi rev, or burn guard? Please explain why or why not, and be respectful.

Theyve got a dps build. Its just not good enough yet

It is interesting, as even if ele gets a esl tier viable dps build, it won’t become used until it becomes so good that it can off set the loss of an auramancer in the support role due to class stacking rules. It would have to be completely dominant over the other damage builds before this happens though since auramancer is part of the backbone of pretty much all teams currently.

Ele’s should get dps build but it’s a long way to make it happen.

Reworks are need to make it possible to survive 1v1 against anything with current amulets with almost no active damage migration and just heals and easy to remove protection. It’s incredible that war can run naked and still he will have better survivability than ele on paladin.

Dps is there but ,,must have focus offhand thing or die" really limits the options out there. There was and effort from devs to improve few things (and efforts to make it worse like ,,mancer traits nerf") but it has no point. We can’t get to this spikes/nukes if we die 1v1 against anything faster then necro by autoattacks!

The fastest way would be new amulet like this: 1050 power, precision and 560 healing, toughness. Tempest thanks to efforts of devs works only with toughness and healing power. It would make possible to make bruiser spec but on same time this amulet would be more or less be broken on scrapper/druid so I doubt it will ever happen.

It’s not right that people are forced to play same thing..boooring as hell thing healboting after 4 seasons in row!. There is nothing mechanically challenging on this build. Your rotation? Run after necro/rev and keep them alive. That’s your rotation! Accept fact that if necro/rev are bad, don’t kill things, move you to impossible to win fights, no matter how long and well you play ele you just leave your team 3v5 and that’s it. That’s how carry works on healbot.

It’s a myth that ele’s play meta because it’s meta. That there are alternatives reserved to skill’ed one’s. Not in EU ranked. Those ,,alternatives" will force your team play 4v5 game in higher ratings no matter what you do. Every class will do your job better than your ,,alternative" by just survival.

But don’t worry those who fear mighty godly ele dps. I am 100% sure that non of dev ever seen or look at ele/tempest balance topic ever. There is a reason why they call healbot ,,supreme".

You’d need to completely rework sceptre and/or dagger offhand or possibly restrict amulets based on class.

You can’t buff dagger mainhand or focus offhand or you make menders ele stronger, you could adjust utility cool downs to be lower like 50s mistform, arcane shield on 30s is nice but mismatched in traits.

To be honest I think the best thing is rework sceptre completely and then reduce RtL cool down to 20s, reduce a few offhand dagger cool downs too in air, water and earth.

As far as core fresh air its viable for 1v1. The main issue is the damage isnt consistent like a thief.

-Make phoenix 12 seconds
-Decrease cast time of dragons tooth
-buff water auto attack by 10%
-Buff shatterstone damage by 50%

Well, I HAD a post, but then when I pressed “Post Reply” some error came up and now it’s gone. The gist of what I said is this:

- Rework Ele.
- Reduce powercreep across the board by increasing CDs of defensive skills and reducing damage.

Easier said than done, but I think this is what Ele needs more than direct buffs. We can’t risk Ele becoming part of the powercreep problem. They were already there with the Support Tempest. That was nerfed and it’s still powerful.

What fresh air core Ele Need:
Reduce cooldown of Phoenix
Reduce cast time and after cast of Dragon thoot.
Reduce cooldown of Fgs to 90sec.

It Will not make Ele DPS metà, because lets be honest ele DPS Will never be in meta like thief will never be a support spec… but it will sure more viable for most of us casual player that hate be a stupid healbot.
Also no one of these change will buff metaboringashellhealbot so please Anet do it.

Thanks GG bb

Reduce cooldown of Phoenix
Reduce cast time and after cast of Dragon tooth.
Reduce cooldown of Fgs to 90sec.

This would be great for any scepter user. I pesonaly would realy have a 1/4 CT on Dragon tooth. More important then the aftercast. Of course if you lower the aftercast you have to be careful about the CT…. I prefer a very short cast time.
And 90s might make FSG actually pvp useful …. what? ELe and a useful elite ?

Wolfric.9380:

Reduce cooldown of Phoenix
Reduce cast time and after cast of Dragon tooth.
Reduce cooldown of Fgs to 90sec.

This would be great for any scepter user. I pesonaly would realy have a 1/4 CT on Dragon tooth. More important then the aftercast. Of course if you lower the aftercast you have to be careful about the CT…. I prefer a very short cast time.
And 90s might make FSG actually pvp useful …. what? ELe and a useful elite ?

The aftercast on DT is fine, what’s not fine is how long it takes the tooth to drop. The skill is too powerful to have no counterplay, I think a 1s casting time, then it drops 1/4s after you finish casting, is fine. People should have some ability to dodge such a powerful attack and you should be vulnerable while using it, what you’re proposing is OP. Imagine if warrior was able to use other skills while Hundred Blades’ effect was occuring. I agree with your points on FGS and Phoenix, though maybe 15s CD for Phoenix would be enough

They need to first bring celestal back, because the elementlist is a celestial class and the might has been nerfed across the board already. It made no sence to nerf the might because of celestial, then remove celestial and not undo the nerfs.

Then they need to make berserker amulet viable on elementalist again, like it was in the good old days. For that they need to scrap the new trait system and replace it with something more like what we had in the beginning, when we could take more than 3 trait lines and got stat points from them.

Huskyboy.1053:

Wolfric.9380:

Reduce cooldown of Phoenix
Reduce cast time and after cast of Dragon tooth.
Reduce cooldown of Fgs to 90sec.

This would be great for any scepter user. I pesonaly would realy have a 1/4 CT on Dragon tooth. More important then the aftercast. Of course if you lower the aftercast you have to be careful about the CT…. I prefer a very short cast time.
And 90s might make FSG actually pvp useful …. what? ELe and a useful elite ?

The aftercast on DT is fine, what’s not fine is how long it takes the tooth to drop. The skill is too powerful to have no counterplay, I think a 1s casting time, then it drops 1/4s after you finish casting, is fine. People should have some ability to dodge such a powerful attack and you should be vulnerable while using it, what you’re proposing is OP. Imagine if warrior was able to use other skills while Hundred Blades’ effect was occuring. I agree with your points on FGS and Phoenix, though maybe 15s CD for Phoenix would be enough

I think you misunderstood. I don´t want to lower the drop time just the casting time.
The result would be it still might not hit much, but its more a fire and forget cast AE denial.

Wolfric.9380:

Huskyboy.1053:

Wolfric.9380:

Reduce cooldown of Phoenix
Reduce cast time and after cast of Dragon tooth.
Reduce cooldown of Fgs to 90sec.

This would be great for any scepter user. I pesonaly would realy have a 1/4 CT on Dragon tooth. More important then the aftercast. Of course if you lower the aftercast you have to be careful about the CT…. I prefer a very short cast time.
And 90s might make FSG actually pvp useful …. what? ELe and a useful elite ?

The aftercast on DT is fine, what’s not fine is how long it takes the tooth to drop. The skill is too powerful to have no counterplay, I think a 1s casting time, then it drops 1/4s after you finish casting, is fine. People should have some ability to dodge such a powerful attack and you should be vulnerable while using it, what you’re proposing is OP. Imagine if warrior was able to use other skills while Hundred Blades’ effect was occuring. I agree with your points on FGS and Phoenix, though maybe 15s CD for Phoenix would be enough

I think you misunderstood. I don´t want to lower the drop time just the casting time.
The result would be it still might not hit much, but its more a fire and forget cast AE denial.

Yeah haha I understood. I think fire and forget encourages low-skill play. When I said “should be vulnerable” I meant that it would retain its existing cast time, which leaves you unable to use other skills with casting times.

The problem with DT in my view isn’t that it’s high-risk (it is), the problem is that it’s high-risk, low-reward, as it rarely hits. I think it should be changed it high-risk, high-reward by decreasing the drop time significantly. The 1s cast time is extremely telegraphed with the tooth appearing overhead, I think that’s sufficient warning for a good player.

I think I should get free food at dennys when I’m drunk, but hey guess what.

I think just nerfing the other classes would be well on the way towards making this happen, other than that Ele would just need a few small tweaks to make a DPS build with daggers comparable to its current role.

Ofcourse Ele should have a damage build. All professions should have multiple builds, but the game has been narrowed down too much.

The ele needs much thinks, my short opinion down
Atm. a freshair build is just working well if he use all skills and traits to get the air-overload. On lowranks it works well, but high ranks or teams can easy get this builds out. Thats cause his defence is low and i can tell why:

Since the start we got the problem that ele gets strong by multy-functional amulets like divinity or the condi, power, toughness + vita, this is cause the skills and effects gets much stronger by attributes instead of having good bases on the skills or and balance on the attribute.

Just remember the DD ele: every might means 160-180 more dmg on 1 stack burn^^

As ele you got from start low live, low armory on the other hand we have all other stats at the middle. i think thats why anet gives the ele higher bonus from stats and much boons at the same time.

Looking at the big changes its interessting whats happens: all classes got more sustain by themself and some specialisations by skills/ traits, just the ele looses more sustain by loosing the amulett and he still have the same sustain on the active defence* side.

• Active defence is something that you push for reduse the dmg like: Blind, block, evade, protection and so on.

Edit: only if the ele plays earth, arcane and templest he gets more defence (cause of the cd reduction of Arcane Shield).

Well the ele reduse the dmg to 40%, thats worser then dodging or block cause at that time you reduse it to 100%, even with counters like unblockable you got more defence by blocking on teamfights.

The only thing ele changes is the sustain from the team, so the team can choose if they use theyr defence skills or get supported by theyr own team and use them later. That also means the Team can play more aggresive or stay longer at fights. Ofc just if the ele supports on the right time, means before the breakpoint (on most classes its on ~50%)

So the ele got buffed by the new line just look a divinity ele on WvW, he is one of the strongest classes. The problem is:
- Nerfed by changing the Amulets
- He still got too good attribute bonus
- Bad bases on skills
- not much active defence based on all others*
+ the good point atm is a strong support
+ bether cds on skills (even if theyr not so usefull^^)

• If i count the cds at a battle ele got 30% dmg reduction all others are on 50% only mesmer can get 55% by actived the shield and rev can go up to ~65% dmg reduction but he loose all dmg^^.

And it woud help if the ele got clear rolles on the different weapons and stay unice to the other classes.

Poelala.2830:

Elementalist probably has the least build diversity of any class in the entire game.

Not really, ele just has the most “special snowflakes” who are so ignorant they think it is only the class in PvP with only one strong build or the only class with weapons that have issues, and as for the “entrie game” it is one of the most pampered classes out there, perma meta in PvE for 4 years (compare that to necros for example), perma meta in WvW (compare that with engy, ranger, thief, etc).

zinkz.7045:

Poelala.2830:

Elementalist probably has the least build diversity of any class in the entire game.

Not really, ele just has the most “special snowflakes” who are so ignorant they think it is only the class in PvP with only one strong build or the only class with weapons that have issues, and as for the “entrie game” it is one of the most pampered classes out there, perma meta in PvE for 4 years (compare that to necros for example), perma meta in WvW (compare that with engy, ranger, thief, etc).

Sorry sir but your are wrong. In case of ele it’s not problem that healbot is only build out there that is ,,strong" and effective at something. It’s not problem here that healbot is meta. It’s problem that healbot is mandatory to stay alive against anything and is mandatory to do anything in conquest as ele. One of causes of this is that tempest elite specialisation is GARBAGE without healing power and toughness.

I know that there are out there classes with same issues like rev but power rev is not freaking boring as hell and your skill maters more on such build then on simple heal spam.

Main problem is that ele is celestial by nature and there is no amulet that even comes close to support that idea..otherwise if would be ok to run an offensive ele.
Unfortunately you need all stats to do any resemblance of dmg, from precision to condi dmg…and at 100% you must have toughness and healing power as you can only facetank dmg on ele

Too many inv, block, dodge. All meta class off+def same time spam now. What do you think on ele? Let’s them join that spamming pool or bring celestial amulet back or give them block block block blind blind blind like DH?

This is HoT. No block No dodge No inv that mean you are a glass! you don’t have Damage!

Sure but nerf their support so far it makes Ventari look good.

I am fine with ele mainly facetanking damage but… Ele has a lot of skills that are spread. So you have all but less focus. So less burst, less condies, less CC, less active defences. What you have is good boons and healing. This makes ele clelestial to do enough damage. You basically need both damage types to kill. If you focus on one type to do enough then you give up defence to a degree where your low armor and HP class will die on random hits like warrios arch divider …. What is left is to focus on the strength. Boons and healing … I personaly like hybrids but no amulet realy supports it well. Maybe classes should get personal amulets …. But this endangers diversity even more having one personal amulet and resultign build per class being best …

Mr Godlike.6098:

zinkz.7045:

Poelala.2830:

Elementalist probably has the least build diversity of any class in the entire game.

Not really, ele just has the most “special snowflakes” who are so ignorant they think it is only the class in PvP with only one strong build or the only class with weapons that have issues, and as for the “entrie game” it is one of the most pampered classes out there, perma meta in PvE for 4 years (compare that to necros for example), perma meta in WvW (compare that with engy, ranger, thief, etc).

Sorry sir but your are wrong. In case of ele it’s not problem that healbot is only build out there that is ,,strong" and effective at something. It’s not problem here that healbot is meta. It’s problem that healbot is mandatory to stay alive against anything and is mandatory to do anything in conquest as ele. One of causes of this is that tempest elite specialisation is GARBAGE without healing power and toughness.

I know that there are out there classes with same issues like rev but power rev is not freaking boring as hell and your skill maters more on such build then on simple heal spam.

Wrong, firstly the idea that ele meta build is boring and the one meta build several other classes have is not, is subjective and lots of classes have things that are mandatory not just ele.

So lets take engy as an example, firstly “boring” to play, I know players who played engy for 3 years who quit the game because scrapper bored them to tears (and that was when the scrapper was still broken OP pre-nerfs), and why did they quit, because the class has no real variety so if they don’t like hammer paired with defensive traitlines and elixir gun they are screwed into playing something sub-par just like eles that want to play something else other than the team support type build.

Let’s look at the weapons firstly Rifle, that got wrecked by HoT powercreep the increased reflects, increased stab, increased stunbreaks, increased passives, increased evades/dodges, etc, plus it was left behind in terms of damage, so is a joke, shield has been a joke for a long time and p/p is a sub-par build that plays like a 3rd rate thief with no mobility, so all you have is hammer.

And then look at the hammer build, what does practically every engy take for traitlines – alchemy & inventions, because without them (alchemy especially which is basically mandatory) scrapper lacks enough defense to survive. And of course that 2 of the other traitlines are trash, one of which is okay for p/p (note ele has much better traitlines and far fewer useless traits) and the other is simply sub-par compared to inventions.

Then what do you have with this hammer build, really a rezbot that does mediocre damage (after all the nerfs), with poor damage application and that is relatively hard to kill. For many engy players if you compare that to pre-HoT builds it is very dull to play. (yes which is subjective)

Then look at how many skills are garbage on engy, turrets (bar healing) are trash, gadgets are trash (they nerfed the only good one into uselessness), even most of their kits have been left behind so are between sub-par and trash.

And that is just engy, it is not the only other class in a bad state (go look at rev for example the class is just a complete mess), so cut the “special snowflake” nonsense that ele is the only class that has issues in PvP. (and as for PvE & WvW where ele has been perma meta, whilst some other classes…)

zinkz.7045:

Poelala.2830:

Elementalist probably has the least build diversity of any class in the entire game.

Not really, ele just has the most “special snowflakes” who are so ignorant they think it is only the class in PvP with only one strong build or the only class with weapons that have issues, and as for the “entrie game” it is one of the most pampered classes out there, perma meta in PvE for 4 years (compare that to necros for example), perma meta in WvW (compare that with engy, ranger, thief, etc).

WvW isn’t a thing, man. ANET left this gamemode to die years ago.

Idk whats with all these arguements. The question is if you feel ele needs a viable damage build. All I am trying to say is we do have one but its not viable at higher tiers because its outclassed by other dps builds.

A bigger look at the meta as a whole, the amount of blocks and evades people can spam is part of the reason its not that viable.

FrownyClown.8402:

Idk whats with all these arguements. The question is if you feel ele needs a viable damage build. All I am trying to say is we do have one but its not viable at higher tiers because its outclassed by other dps builds.

A bigger look at the meta as a whole, the amount of blocks and evades people can spam is part of the reason its not that viable.

Eles problem is not viability of others builds, eles problem is they are so good on suport role that in terms of team construction its mandatory the ele suport, and ele going suport ennables other dps oriented builds. in resumen eles problem is not viability, eles problem is the “meta”, other classes droping almost all suport because they are eles(and druids) suporting them

Iv been playing fresh air s/f, s/d for a few years now it’s my favorite play style to play. When roaming and sometimes in PvP (unranked for funzies). For me inorder to get full use of my burst I usually have to set them up by knocking them down and switching to fire and phenix and DT. However most of the time the enemy has enough time to brake stun and move out the way of phenix (if I don’t do it point blank) and DT well that is nothing but a safety move now to stop pressure from some melee users since it takes way to long for it to land. If you count the broken cast time/animation to the time it hits the ground it’s ineffective when you have Mesmer shatters that happen instantly, headbutts that happen instantly, backstabs that happen instantly I can go on and on about instant damage moves that other DPS classes have over the lack luster DPS moves a s/f s/d has.

What I’d like to see is phenix having double the movement speed and not a broken cast/animation timming for DT, as well as a faster fall rate.

(Was done on my phone sorry for any spelling or missunderstanding sentences)

Huskyboy.1053:

Wolfric.9380:

Reduce cooldown of Phoenix
Reduce cast time and after cast of Dragon tooth.
Reduce cooldown of Fgs to 90sec.

This would be great for any scepter user. I pesonaly would realy have a 1/4 CT on Dragon tooth. More important then the aftercast. Of course if you lower the aftercast you have to be careful about the CT…. I prefer a very short cast time.
And 90s might make FSG actually pvp useful …. what? ELe and a useful elite ?

The aftercast on DT is fine, what’s not fine is how long it takes the tooth to drop. The skill is too powerful to have no counterplay, I think a 1s casting time, then it drops 1/4s after you finish casting, is fine. People should have some ability to dodge such a powerful attack and you should be vulnerable while using it, what you’re proposing is OP. Imagine if warrior was able to use other skills while Hundred Blades’ effect was occuring. I agree with your points on FGS and Phoenix, though maybe 15s CD for Phoenix would be enough

Ow yeah,i imagine a warrior,like if they would have arc divider on half second cast time “900 range around warr” or decapitate,uhm,wait…..Dragon tooth is terrible atm,you dont need even dodge,you can cripled and chilled walk from it,and still have time to /sleep emote.Heck,even droping it on downed one fails,cause ppl usually res faster,than you get it landed.

Please, I don’t need a life story or a synopsis of your history on ele. A simple yes or no accompanied with an explanation would suffice.

ele is full of underperforming and un to less used traits and utilities and many for years. Yes there work to do. But ele is not alone …

Poelala.2830:

Please, I don’t need a life story or a synopsis of your history on ele. A simple yes or no accompanied with an explanation would suffice.

I think that’s exactly what everyone just said. Consider reading their posts.

Well, every class has a damage build. Actually a good staff ele can do alot of damage. However, the issue is not that the build isnt necessarily good enough, its that the team needs support.

Currently there are only two classes that can give strong healing support, that is Ele and just recently added Ranger.

Often times if you look at the comps of the other team you will see that you need your ele for support, such as holding the point because of their great healing and condi clear, keeping you alive against high damage teams, ect.

It is similar to the debate ongoing over necros who, at best used for corruption or condition damage. Otherwise we are useless to our teams.

If I need a ADC, Why I choose ELE? ELE has got the mark of Healing. It came from HoT. Came from Power Creep. No one can make it change!

Anet should never give a full healer in PVP. That is their fault. You can see HoT from a bunker meta to now the damage out of control. That’s all about Healing Problem. You can refer Other failed MMO PVP – WoW.

Healer leave PvP alone