Guild Wars 2

Not particularly balanced for tourneys, but it’s a fun map when everyone is just goofing around. CC effects are bad enough without making them all oneshot people.

The number one topic of moaning on these forums since day one has always been linked to the fact that there’s only one game mode in tpvp. The minute they add something which spices it up a bit, in this case, players having to focus more on positioning/fighting across the map rather than standing on a point 24/7, everyone complains.

The cannon needs to be dodgeable, but apart from that, there’s so much room for fun and clutch plays in this map, that I can actually imagine it being the most enjoyable to watch streams of, imo.

Don’t be afraid to change builds and tactics. I sometimes think people just want everything to work the best with their one special build. If maps were all the same, there would be no point in new ones.

No No No, Forever say NO. There are so many wrong with this map just over the top of my head.

1/ The map promotes CC too much, specifically the KB and Fear. More often than rare, you will see Engine, Necro all over the map and multiple in one team. How does that promote diversity?

2/ The quickest way to kill OP so far. Push OP out of the ledge, GG. How does that promote skill play?

3/ In a scenario, you still alive after being pushed down, how you get back up besides let the Worms down there kill you? Either way, you still need to be Dead to get back in the fight? How does that promote a decent fight?

4/ The match become a Competitive Pushing Tournament instead where both teams compete for pushing the opposite off ledge and just win from point killing OP? So what is the point to be a Conquest Mode Map PvP?

Etc…

I believe there are a lot more issues regarding to this map. Overall rating, Beyond Comprehensive Bad.

Hotjoin, Yes. Fun, Yes. Tourney, No. Competitive, No…

EoNxBoNx.9213:

What skill is there in that in just CCing someone while they get annihilated by that. Sure it makes everyone play different builds, but in a 3-round tournament, you cannot change builds, you can change utilities and traits.

There are no 3-round tournaments. And they probably won’t come back that soon(they might have other maps then at these 3-round tournaments).

Skill by CCing someone that gets killed by falling down? Yes. You need to time and save the skills that do these stuff… and be careful not to die to others that do this.

Also both teams need to to the same. All maps can be played in tournament. Cause it is not the maps that need to be balanced(maybe if they give a terrain advantage to some team – such stuff has to be balanced) but the players and teams.

Even classes don’t need to be balanced 1 vs. 1 and a few classes can just be stronger at one map – no problem… if the teams are balanced and the players(meaning by skill and team composition so every team has a few playing classes that are good at that map for certain stuff).

Face the truth: You just don’t like the map cause you play a class that is not good at this map and get pwned by the other teams… which also might because the map is new. People will learn to play it and just have someone controll the cannon for their team then everything is fine… even if you don’t play a “good class”… cannon won’t be able to hit you as long as somene else from your team plays a “good class”(fearing others down and controlling the cannon).

Of course both teams then will have people fighting for the cannon. Which makes it fun. Better than some secondary objetcive you can just ignore… like Foerfire “lets zerg at middle and never to go lord”.

Edit:

2/ The quickest way to kill OP so far. Push OP out of the ledge, GG. How does that promote skill play?

You use skills to push them(launch) or fear. More fun and skill play then the usual “hey taking a build from internet and using a preset skill rotation”.

Luthan.5236:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

What skill is there in that in just CCing someone while they get annihilated by that. Sure it makes everyone play different builds, but in a 3-round tournament, you cannot change builds, you can change utilities and traits.

There are no 3-round tournaments. And they probably won’t come back that soon(they might have other maps then at these 3-round tournaments).

Skill by CCing someone that gets killed by falling down? Yes. You need to time and save the skills that do these stuff… and be careful not to die to others that do this.

Also both teams need to to the same. All maps can be played in tournament. Cause it is not the maps that need to be balanced(maybe if they give a terrain advantage to some team – such stuff has to be balanced) but the players and teams.

Even classes don’t need to be balanced 1 vs. 1 and a few classes can just be stronger at one map – no problem… if the teams are balanced and the players(meaning by skill and team composition so every team has a few playing classes that are good at that map for certain stuff).

Face the truth: You just don’t like the map cause you play a class that is not good at this map and get pwned by the other teams… which also might because the map is new. People will learn to play it and just have someone controll the cannon for their team then everything is fine… even if you don’t play a “good class”… cannon won’t be able to hit you as long as somene else from your team plays a “good class”(fearing others down and controlling the cannon).

Of course both teams then will have people fighting for the cannon. Which makes it fun. Better than some secondary objetcive you can just ignore… like Foerfire “lets zerg at middle and never to go lord”.

Edit:

2/ The quickest way to kill OP so far. Push OP out of the ledge, GG. How does that promote skill play?

You use skills to push them(launch) or fear. More fun and skill play then the usual “hey taking a build from internet and using a preset skill rotation”.

By 3-round tournaments I meant actual tournaments.

And there is no skill in just using CC, you don’t have to save onto it, especially when every profession on your team would have one. Whether its a KB, KD, or fear, even immobilize can be considered. There is no skill because there is no real counter-play to it.

Sure you fight at the cannon, same situation. Anyone that just gets knocked off loses that teamfight. Or even if it is a 1v1, put the best class up there to just knock someone off.

This is not a good map, but it is not bad as a FUN map, and that is all it should ever be.

Quote:
Edit:
2/ The quickest way to kill OP so far. Push OP out of the ledge, GG. How does that promote skill play?
You use skills to push them(launch) or fear. More fun and skill play then the usual “hey taking a build from internet and using a preset skill rotation”.

Yup right, CC Spamming Feast. Here I come. And yet we do have some topic against spamming and yes this map is exactly what you guys are against, Spamming CC.. We have Spam Evade, Spam Conditions. Now Spam CC. What’s next?

It’s a new map where the positioning matters even more than before. Learn to adapt, play the map more often and you’ll also have fun on it!

Spam thief heartseeker. Spam autoattack. Lol. All about spamming. Spamming grenades. If you spam then you’ll reach a CD(yes engineer is a bit too low… did not know why they lowered ram with the other update… they can permanently rotate between skills like there).

Maybe after all CC the target affected by CC should get a stability for 10 seconds so you would need to time the CC more. You could still it against a lot of different targets(with some classes that just have a lot of access to CC)… but not just combo use it to “launch” someone from half across the map to the end and push them down. Cause with 10s stability he can do a lot to get out of a dangerous position.

Of course 10s seems a bit too much. Would need to be tested what amount would be good(also the person using lots of CC can’t be controlled that easy anymore than).

Teutos.8620:

It’s a new map where the positioning matters even more than before. Learn to adapt, play the map more often and you’ll also have fun on it!

Does that all matter? At the end of the day, which team has the most CC combination, win.

Serdoc.7261:

Ah good ol Tor Anroc.
Playing a Dwarf IronBreaker and flinging people into lava was too much fun

As for this map, it will probably need a few balance tweaks and bug fixes.

Made me curious, so I looked it up.

trolololol
I feel bad for all those poor souls being tossed into the lava like golf balls.

I can imagine engis having a field day on this map, shortly followed by warriors, guardians, necros and mesmers.

Edit: Seems CC galore won’t be the only thing running rampant on this map

Thief port OP, heh.

Each map already has it’s own meta. I don’t see why it’s so hard to adapt for a PvP community.

Every class has access to most CCs. Some more than others sure, but it’s all a matter of seeing them dodging them or using stability.

Of course, trying to explain a different meta to a community only able to play a single one is rather pointless.

Whoever designed this map didnt play tourneys

The problem is that CC in this game is not difficult to land, and some may be nearly impossible to dodge, the risk and reward doesnt fit well in this map.

Benji.9203:

DXIEdge.2789:

Come on people. You ask for diversity and then you scream when something different appears and your like “give me forest! Give me Foefire!”

This

So true. The relationship between between Anet and the users of this forum often reminds me of the relationship between this mother and her daughter.

JonG.7206:

Benji.9203:

DXIEdge.2789:

Come on people. You ask for diversity and then you scream when something different appears and your like “give me forest! Give me Foefire!”

This

So true. The relationship between between Anet and the users of this forum often reminds me of the relationship between this mother and her daughter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90HhZ-pyC2Y

Yep. Doomsayers and ungratefulness all round.

Ok I been convinced to try the map again. I run ele so I’m going to run arcane shield, armour of earth and blink. Traits include rock solid (stab on earth), armour of earth proc and runes of the sanctuary (stab at 20% hp).

Not running tornado because I dont believe in that bs play. I’ll spend all game hugging walls and eating damage because I’m staying next to my safety wall.

IF they remove the kill by fall on the map sure include it, otherwise it would be 5 necro with long fears running around. I played it once and it was quite enough. Also it’s quite silly that i’m so afraid of something that i throw myself into the void…

It is fun but frustrating.

Littlefeather.8623:

Every one mentions stability, but if you bring something up, bring up the CD/Uptime on it too.

It last 5 seconds people…with a 24 Second CD if your traited into shouts…

This map is not even about PvP, its about avoiding getting knocked down a hole…

Closer to 6.5s if fully traited into Virtues.

Also, take Hallowed Ground with CD reduction, and take X in Virtues.

Bring moar guardians.

Spirit-Hammer gets finally viable!!!

Shalla.3967:

The number one topic of moaning on these forums since day one has always been linked to the fact that there’s only one game mode in tpvp. The minute they add something which spices it up a bit, in this case, players having to focus more on positioning/fighting across the map rather than standing on a point 24/7, everyone complains.

The cannon needs to be dodgeable, but apart from that, there’s so much room for fun and clutch plays in this map, that I can actually imagine it being the most enjoyable to watch streams of, imo.

Don’t be afraid to change builds and tactics. I sometimes think people just want everything to work the best with their one special build. If maps were all the same, there would be no point in new ones.

Making a map where professions that have obscene amounts of fear/knockback are inherently superior due to a ledge/fall mechanic EVERYWHERE is not a new game type. It’s just boring.

Become a PvP map-definately not. Classes like necro-who stack 5 fears versus classes like thief who has 0 knock backs=?
Sure I like to be able to dodge around, jump on the jumpy thingys, and be able to go around buildings, I HATE being pushed to death, and that HORRIBLE “beware experiment-say goodbye to the battle u got kitten”
Seriously ? not a PvP map, ruins the fun, and makes fights become pointless since people can just go 5 necros and the game is over.

Yes. Yes it should.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Evasive classes such as Ranger and Thief get immediately put at a disadvantage because of that. It’s Battle of Khylo, but bad.

As a thief i don’t agree.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Excuse me if I believe that if a single map requires you to either use 2 types of builds, or be completely unviable/suck, that map is designed poorly.

And again, no problem using my old build.

Kojiden.8405:

If your team does not control the laser.. YOU LOSE.

Well, then get the laser yourself? Besides, it’s not true either.
We won a game without having the laser at all, and the enemy attacking us with it.
Just quickly run out of the circly, the laser has quite a long CD.

uberkingkong.8041:

There is skill involved, in order to not get knockbacked off the map fight with your back to the wall, watch when your enemy uses up his knockbacks.
If you follow your enemy over a glass floor your an idiot because it’ll break when your on it.
You can dodge the cannon, its called getting out of the AoE.

This map is all about skill and common sense. Because when I bunker side nodes, I always take the glass off, so idiots run right into the pit. I just wish I got points for them falling, so hard to tag them when they run straight into it.

If you run into a pit, you just don’t have any skills.
Positioning is a big big thing in this map and only the most skillful have the best positioning.

Yup, this!

I find thieves the most annoying on Skyhammer due to the cheesy step on glass floor panel => scorpion wire. If timed right, you’ll get pulled before the glass breaks and there’s no way of telling their presence so it’s not like you can react with stability. Then due to the canon, thieves just backcap other points that the laser isn’t aimed at while other teammates get the skyhammer and owns any teamfights. No point in fighting at all now, just fight for the laser and backcap.

Seriously though, it’s grab point A, send someone like a guard or necro at canon. Send someone like a guard on B. Laser point B (who needs dps as a bunker when you got a 10k aoe helping you out?). Have a thief backcap everything. Have the other two defend laser or help the bunker guard at B. Win. Now I guess I should find some players who can play specific classes with specific builds for the next 3 days…or I can just wait it out to keep my sanity.

Yes

NO WAY! nononononono

they come up with an emotion provoking map that fuels rage full games due you kittening up the game play of this map..

srry to say this but L2P MMO and stop QQing about new content for TPvP… something new was needed..

no go relearn the map.. and redo your spec for it..

I don’t think this is a good fit in tourney play.

The map is kind of fun because it is new, but the design of it discourages actual combat and encourages CC fueled insta-gib only fights from fall mechanics. Classes with certain mechanics can negate a fall death while other classes are entirely devoid of mechanics to counter. Also, why have ground down there at all if there is no mechanic to get back up? Make it like the crevasse in the mists that you just die when you jump into it. Oh, and insta-gibbing from stealth is not something that should be possible. Thieves, Mesmers and Engineers all definitely have that capability on this map, and it isn’t terribly hard to do. Not sure if any other professions can at a glance, but I might have missed something. I went to see the new map and found myself trolling people into fall deaths in the most despicable way repeatedly. Now I just feel bad about it even though it seemed like the fun thing to do at the time.

I think it’s funny that people say this is not PVP.

Okay well basically you are defining PVP as standing in a circle spamming your skills to try and gain control of a point. That’s a very limited view of PVP.

This IS PVP it’s just not the PVP you are used to. Had this map been the first one to be implemented there would have been an outrage if Forest had been implemented afterwards because it’s playstyle is so drastically different and would have essentially made “CC useless”.

This is the worst map i have ever see complitely nonsense …. delete this map forever or put this map only in hotjoin… DELETE SKYHAMMER IN TOURNAMENT

the field of play must be only witness of the two contending team, the map must be able to make the game fun but it should not affect so ‘heavily on randomness’ of the events in this map is not obvious to win the team stronger, organized and worthy .

for me this map kills the competitive game

Pandabro.8743:

I think it’s funny that people say this is not PVP.

Okay well basically you are defining PVP as standing in a circle spamming your skills to try and gain control of a point. That’s a very limited view of PVP.

This IS PVP it’s just not the PVP you are used to. Had this map been the first one to be implemented there would have been an outrage if Forest had been implemented afterwards because it’s playstyle is so drastically different and would have essentially made “CC useless”.

It is PvP but it shouldn’t be part of the competitive tournament rotation. It’s a fun map for goofing around and trolling which makes it great for hotjoin. But any map that lets you one shot someone with fear or a knockback is inherently imbalanced for competitive, skill-based play.

This map doesn’t fit the condition spam Meta so its bad? Please. Its the first map where you have to build for the map and not the opposing team. People are actually afraid of knockbacks instead of mildly annoyed. This alone is a good thing it adds importance to skills in all classes I even hear thieves are finding use for spike trap and trip wire. This map IS GOOD AND SHOULD BE IN TOURNAMENTS

jportell.2197:

This map doesn’t fit the condition spam Meta so its bad? Please. Its the first map where you have to build for the map and not the opposing team. People are actually afraid of knockbacks instead of mildly annoyed. This alone is a good thing it adds importance to skills in all classes I even hear thieves are finding use for spike trap and trip wire. This map IS GOOD AND SHOULD BE IN TOURNAMENTS

That’s a BAD thing. Are we playing Guild Wars or Build Wars? You should play to beat the other team, by being better PLAYERS than them. You shouldn’t be able to win because your build/profession is better at spamming CCs to get a oneshot kill.

A PVP map that discourages actual PVP? Sigh. Bring more gimmicky knockbacks and cannons.. Because why not. Let’s face it, skill is not needed here. Just the right class (necro/engineer/guardian). Pffft. Give me a simple wooded area and a deathmatch, let us try our hand at ACTUAL PVP.

So, what everyone wants:

A plain open field with 3 nodes. Nothing else otherwise you get small nodes/positioning advantages, etc.

Nothing but damage skills. Otherwise you get knockbacks and thats cheesy. You get all sorts of CC but thats cheesy.

But actually no, everyone hates conquest, don’t we? And we all want ‘actual’ pvp. Player versus player. So we want deathmatch, I assume.

5 v 5 with only damage skills on a flat playing field.

Ye, sounds fun…

jportell.2197:

This map doesn’t fit the condition spam Meta so its bad? Please. Its the first map where you have to build for the map and not the opposing team. People are actually afraid of knockbacks instead of mildly annoyed. This alone is a good thing it adds importance to skills in all classes I even hear thieves are finding use for spike trap and trip wire. This map IS GOOD AND SHOULD BE IN TOURNAMENTS

Good thing condition heavy professions don’t have good cc skills…right?

Errant Venture.9371:

That’s a BAD thing. Are we playing Guild Wars or Build Wars? You should play to beat the other team, by being better PLAYERS than them. You shouldn’t be able to win because your build/profession is better at spamming CCs to get a oneshot kill.

Part of being a better player is adjusting your build to the circumstances. If you wanted to play a game that wasn’t based around builds there are plenty of competitive FPS out there…

butch.8136:

So, what everyone wants:

A plain open field with 3 nodes. Nothing else otherwise you get small nodes/positioning advantages, etc.

Nothing but damage skills. Otherwise you get knockbacks and thats cheesy. You get all sorts of CC but thats cheesy.

But actually no, everyone hates conquest, don’t we? And we all want ‘actual’ pvp. Player versus player. So we want deathmatch, I assume.

5 v 5 with only damage skills on a flat playing field.

Ye, sounds fun…

Secondary mechanics are good. But controlling the secondary mechanics shouldn’t be a game-breaking thing. You shouldn’t HAVE to cap the cannon to have a decent chance of winning skyhammer. Forest and Khylo do this well: they have secondary mechanics that can be important but they won’t DECIDE the match and they can be COUNTERED and effectively removed from play. That can’t happen on skyhammer

CC’s are good. They’re vitally important to team and solo fights, and skillfully used CC is a great tactic. The problem with skyhammer is that CC doesn’t help you gain an advantage over enemies through skillful and timely usage: CC gives you an instant kill. This makes everyone bring TONS of CC at the cost of damage, and the counters to CC aren’t nearly as available as the CC itself is. People are able to bring so much CC they can spam it without attempting to time things well and it will be extremely effective because you only need to land one lucky hit to get a ONE SHOT KILL.

Those are the problems with skyhammer. It’s a fun map and i enjoy goofing around with it on custom servers. But it doesn’t deserve a place in competitive rotations

Errant Venture.9371:

That’s a BAD thing. Are we playing Guild Wars or Build Wars? You should play to beat the other team, by being better PLAYERS than them. You shouldn’t be able to win because your build/profession is better at spamming CCs to get a oneshot kill.

So let’s throw random skills in our bar and expect to win because we are good.

Nope. A good player is also a player who dodge enemy CCs and can push the enemy down. It is just a different and less forgiving gameplay you’re probably not used to.

If you know that you’re going to play in Skyhammer, just build accordingly. People should know where they are playing in, don’t just ignore that factor and take the build they want to take.

Pandabro.8743:

Errant Venture.9371:

That’s a BAD thing. Are we playing Guild Wars or Build Wars? You should play to beat the other team, by being better PLAYERS than them. You shouldn’t be able to win because your build/profession is better at spamming CCs to get a oneshot kill.

Part of being a better player is adjusting your build to the circumstances. If you wanted to play a game that wasn’t based around builds there are plenty of competitive FPS out there…

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

They already are…

The few competitive teams there are are always adjusting their builds based on what maps they are playing, sometimes even their professions. Sometimes they want more team fight presence on Legacy or they want someone who can take and hold far on Kyhlo.

These things are already happening, this map just makes it more of a necessity, which I don’t feel is a bad thing at all.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

So it all goes down to the fact that you don’t want to adjust your playstyle…
Well, enough said.

sorrow.2364:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

So it all goes down to the fact that you don’t want to adjust your playstyle…
Well, enough said.

Nope, I can adjust to it and lose mostly to thieves with the surprise gank. I don’t have problems playing a game I guess I have to play, but really don’t like the idea of it.

sorrow.2364:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

So it all goes down to the fact that you don’t want to adjust your playstyle…
Well, enough said.

There’s a difference between adjusting your build/playstyle to suit a mechanic or strategy and having to spec for massive CC/CC counters to oneshot others/avoid being oneshotted by spammable CC.

People are destroying balanced teams with 3 necro + 2 engi setups. Doesn’t that suggest that there’s a mechanics issue and not a build adjustment issue?

I would love to see this map regularly in the tournament rotation… Definitely keeps things fresh, forces people to rethink their builds and strategies, which is what I think a new map should do.

Best troll map ever made by Arena.net.
They should make a tourny with this map and lots of prizes just to troll pros.

Gaiyeerishima Cat.1082:

I would love to see this map regularly in the tournament rotation… Definitely keeps things fresh, forces people to rethink their builds and strategies, which is what I think a new map should do.

How does it force people to rethink their builds? Every profession is forced into the one spec that maximizes CC while avoiding as many CCs as possible. This map KILLS build diversity by having a single mechanic that allows you to dominate the other team: oneshot kills via knockback/fear/immob

Yeah this isn’t PvP.
The sheer lack of talent required to play on this map makes it completely and utterly boring, get yourself a warrior or engi and watch the other team fly off the map over and over and over, once you get bored of that, you’ll realise that the map is nothing short of dreadful.

Personally I’ll just stop pvping for the remainder of this map.

Errant Venture.9371:

butch.8136:

So, what everyone wants:

A plain open field with 3 nodes. Nothing else otherwise you get small nodes/positioning advantages, etc.

Nothing but damage skills. Otherwise you get knockbacks and thats cheesy. You get all sorts of CC but thats cheesy.

But actually no, everyone hates conquest, don’t we? And we all want ‘actual’ pvp. Player versus player. So we want deathmatch, I assume.

5 v 5 with only damage skills on a flat playing field.

Ye, sounds fun…

Secondary mechanics are good. But controlling the secondary mechanics shouldn’t be a game-breaking thing. You shouldn’t HAVE to cap the cannon to have a decent chance of winning skyhammer. Forest and Khylo do this well: they have secondary mechanics that can be important but they won’t DECIDE the match and they can be COUNTERED and effectively removed from play. That can’t happen on skyhammer

CC’s are good. They’re vitally important to team and solo fights, and skillfully used CC is a great tactic. The problem with skyhammer is that CC doesn’t help you gain an advantage over enemies through skillful and timely usage: CC gives you an instant kill. This makes everyone bring TONS of CC at the cost of damage, and the counters to CC aren’t nearly as available as the CC itself is. People are able to bring so much CC they can spam it without attempting to time things well and it will be extremely effective because you only need to land one lucky hit to get a ONE SHOT KILL.

Those are the problems with skyhammer. It’s a fun map and i enjoy goofing around with it on custom servers. But it doesn’t deserve a place in competitive rotations

Secondary mechanics are there for a reason. On some maps using them offers a slight advantage (Nifhel). Battle of Kyhlo and Foefire give you even bigger advantages. And similarly Skyhammer’s cannon is a big advantage. There’s nothing game-breaking about controlling the cannon room and you don’t need to divert your entire team to controlling it. Normally 1 is enough with 1 or 2 as backup. Other 2 players should still be capping points. But someone should be rotating into the cannon room immediately if the main guy holding it goes down.