Guild Wars 2

As an engineer, pre-patch I felt that Celestial was our only real option. Nothing else came close to it in utility. Running Berserker pre-patch was OK for Static Discharge builds, but when Celestial did 70% the damage Berserker did it felt kind of silly to give up all the defensive gains you lost by going glass cannon. Rabid felt just the same way, with Celestial dishing “good enough” condition damage with Incendiary Powder to where full condition builds felt lackluster gains when prioritizing it.

To resolve this issue of Celestial doing too much damage, ArenaNet moved Incendiary Powder to the Firearms tree, making us choose between it or Explosives to maintain our survivability with Alchemy and Tools. Now build diversity has opened up a bit, with Soldier, Marauder, and Rabid all getting a fair amount of play, but very few engineers post-patch feel it is worthwhile to run Celestial anymore, and no top tier players seem to hold any faith in it holding up in high MMR and tournament play. ArenaNet’s choice to nerf Celestial for engineers essentially rendered it useless.

Warriors saw much the same treatment, though not quite so severely—namely to nerfs to their warhorn traits—but the result is still the same: what was once meta is now never taken.

If Celestial is to see this kind of feast-or-famine treatment, where it’s either meta or simply suboptimal, then maybe it’s just in ArenaNet’s best interest to remove it from PvP. I see a lot of the same threads now calling for Celestial nerfs, usually directed toward elementalists and necromancers. What if the issue isn’t the traits but the amulet itself? If they had to choose between power, condition damage, and sustain, just as engineers do now, would we still take issue with them?

Sadly it’s easier said then done,
I do believe removing it from PvP would be beneficial; however, you will have a ton of people raging at the top of their lungs threatening murder, suicide, and lawsuits because their class is “now broken and useless”.

A lot of people, have a hard time believing there is more to a class then what a youtube critic tells them is appropriate to play. Yes, that shouldn’t be a reason to keep it but it’s a factor…

It can be done though, there are examples of amulets and sigils not being added to pvp due to an OP factor…

I think that thanks to cele amulet we can have some really interesting builds, and it
benefits from the exponential of this game to craft a big variety of builds, being one of them the jack of all trades that can be any celestial build. Maybe slightly nerfing it (10%) can help to decrease the players complaints, but I think that the amulet is awesome, and the problem is the build balance itself.

In fact, what we need is way more variety of amulets, so even new builds can be created, not to reduce the amount we have now…

should be removed or reduce the stat gain to 300 each.

when one class/spec can utilize it better than all 7 other classes combined, its a glaring problem that needs to be addressed.

Krysard.1364:

In fact, what we need is way more variety of amulets, so even new builds can be created, not to reduce the amount we have now…

I agree, we do need more amulets, sigils and runes. However, there should be some mindfulness to the stats.

cele amulet is balanced.
ele is not.

nerf ele, not cele.

I think the issue with removing Celestial amulet is that we can’t mix and match certain stats and then making a Hybrid is much more difficult. The Elementalist in particular gets hurt by this as we can use all the stats effectively, but without the Celestial amulet, it’s more difficult to pull it off.
Maybe a better solution is to either shave off some of the stats or better yet, fix up the classes. Elementalist has a myriad of issues(too much reliance on Water/Arcane + 3x Cantrips and brain-dead Burn application) for example. At the same time, I think Conquest might be to blame as it benefits these types of builds.

Malchior.5732:

I think the issue with removing Celestial amulet is that we can’t mix and match certain stats and then making a Hybrid is much more difficult.

Hybrid builds might be the problem, though.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

cele amulet is balanced.
ele is not.

nerf ele, not cele.

But don’t you think ele is only op with cele? Removing cele will put ele in a rightful place.

Celestial necromancer is a strong build, but its nowherre near the godmode status of cele ele or prepatch cele warrior/engi because it doesn’t take any traits/skills for AoE heals, and it really can’t becuase it requries such a specific combination of traits to have any synergy and effectiveness at all.

You’d pretty much put necromancers back into the post-dhuumfire-nerf days, and necros would be forced to run tanky soldier’s builds that do 0 damage or minion builds to do anything since condi necro is useless and zerker wells is thief food.

Now ask yourself, do you really want that?

Celestial is perfectly fine. There are two working celestial builds and only one that is widely over powered.

Shatter Mesmer is Op, should Marauders be removed? Think about it. It’s a silly request. More marauder builds work than Celestial btw.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

cele amulet is balanced.
ele is not.

nerf ele, not cele.

^
Ele skills need lower base values and higher scaling. With Cele Ammy in HotM: Drake’s Breath dealing 1.3k damage on top of the burning. Burning Speed doing 1.3k damage and Fire Grab doing 2k damage on burning targets… Cleansing Wave healing for 1.8k (through both Dagger Water 5 and Evasive Arcana). Healing Ripple has alright base and scaling values. 2x Cleansing Wave + Healing Ripple is basically a heal skill of itself.

Too much sustain and damage because of base values. Cele Amulet is fine, but DD Ele can pump out too much with it. Also, Burning Speed and Ring of Fire need slightly larger cds. Tooooo much damage.

calling cele d/d a hybrid build is laughable.

cele d/d isn’t a hybrid build, its an EVERYTHING build, outside of access to stealth (not like they need it) and maybe spike damage potential, there isn’t a single thing in pvp that cele d/d doesn’t at least achieve a 90% efficiency at compared to the top of the line specs.

they can bunker at least 90% as well as a guardian, has at least 90% of the mobility of a thief, can cleanse/dish out condis etc etc.

its not a “hybrid” if you get 50 miles per gallon but also can haul as much as a pickup truck and take on a Bugatti Veyron in a street race

I wreckon cele needs a nerf…

Most of my characters are cele builds, just has way too much going for it no matter what class you put it on. I actually feel like I have to use celestial.

The ONLY class I havent worked out a viable cele build for is thief, but it’s getting there

sephiroth.4217:

I wreckon cele needs a nerf…

Most of my characters are cele builds, just has way too much going for it no matter what class you put it on. I actually feel like I have to use celestial.

The ONLY class I havent worked out a viable cele build for is thief, but it’s getting there

Ironically, Thief is the only class in the game without Burning. :P wut?!

honeslty I think it’s really just mobility that needs to be toned down in general…buuut that’s just my opinion. Removing celestial would do nothing, eles would probably just go soldier or knights or something else. Maybe even cleric. And another spec or build would rise to the top and be considered top dog.

Celestial amulet is fine, for most professions it is sub optimal amulet. Celestial d/d elementalist is not fine, because elementalist can at same time have incredible sustain, good mobility and stack tons of might to compensate the lack of offensive stats. D/D ele also has access to a lot of burning, which stacks. I feel that the meta d/d ele build is a bunker build. It should still keep most of it’s sustain, but it’s ability stack burn and might should be reduced. Even if celestial would be removed, d/d elementalist would still be overpowered.

Really if celestial would be the main problem, then I think we would see much more players using it, but right now the marauders amulet seems much more common!

I really do not want celestial amulet to be gone since it is the only balanced stats choice. The game should offer hybrid stats as well and they should remain valid, but not overpowered. Nobody in their right mind if claiming that celestial engineer is overpowered right now.

Arenanet should also carefully rethink the balance between burns and bleeds. I feel that the bleeds do a bit too little base damage, while burning is strong even if you have no points invested in condition damage. Engineers can also do a lot of burning, but since bleeding has so low base damage, this pretty much killed hybrid engineer builds (together with changes to incendiary powder) and made condition engineer into a one trick pony (stack burns and hope you won’t die while your skills are on cd). Previously the grenade kit and the bomb kit were both good choices for power, celestial (hybrid) and condition. Now I feel that grenade kit, bomb kit and the mortar kit all work the best with power based stats (e.g. marauder, soldier etc).

Yup cele should be gone from pvp, amulet thata lets you do everthing at same time and making it viable just calls for balance issues. Not to mention those proffesions are very boring to play against. For me ele was much more fun when hey had to specialise to power dmg, condi dmg or cleric survival, now they do everything just with one.

I’ve always had a problem with celestial amulet.

If you just look at all the various tournaments and especially WTS celestial has always been used. The main problem is we have classes with a lot of active defense or sustain and are good at might stacking in some way, this makes bruisers which are basically the best things to run in conquest. If you go full bunker you can’t kill anything, if you go full zerker/marauder you can’t sustain anything. Bruisers sustain and damage well and celestial exacerbates it. It really has no trade off, even with the stats lowered on it it still makes professions way too versatile compared to other amulets.

I’d like to see more specialized pvp roles as it would allow more professions imo to break into teams. Or they’d have to make every class just as viable as another with celestial and that’d be boring/hard/impossible.

Right now we just have roamers and bruisers, occasionally you’ll see a bunker guard, but I’d like to see more professions like it where it does have trade offs. Bunker guard you have bad mobility and no damage, but can carry a team fight. What’s the trade off for most cele classes? DD ele, old shoutbow, old engi all were/are (ele) broken. Necro now is probably the most balanced of them since it lacks mobility and active defense, but if it had just one of those it’d be up there with DD eles complaints.

This lack of diversity also effects the roamer role too as thief/mesmer are just better than everything because they can pull of marauder the best. The stealth and ports and ability to disengage make them clear picks over other professions in most serious teams. Like yeah we have had rampage war and well necro and burn guard but they all lack the proper sustain (stealth is so huge to this as it helps mitigate pressure in fights and allows disengage) to survive and mobility to rotate. But this isn’t on topic technically so enough of that tangent. However I do think it’s a relevant comparison.

Conquest mode just favors certain professions too heavily and I doubt getting rid of celestial, even though I’d like it, would solve the problem.

maybe ele needed all of it’s trait lines gutted and it’s synergy neutered? that killed cele Engi, could kill cele ele too.

I just think they should just give classes that run it nerfs towards the use of the amulet IE eles and necros. Like they did for engis, they didn’t cause the cele amulet to be useless for engi, it just became “balanced.” I like where cele engi is now, I still see good use in it, and no one really complains about it anymore. Now that’s “balanced!”

Wolfey.3407:

Sadly it’s easier said then done,
I do believe removing it from PvP would be beneficial; however, you will have a ton of people raging at the top of their lungs threatening murder, suicide, and lawsuits because their class is “now broken and useless”.

A lot of people, have a hard time believing there is more to a class then what a youtube critic tells them is appropriate to play. Yes, that shouldn’t be a reason to keep it but it’s a factor…

It can be done though, there are examples of amulets and sigils not being added to pvp due to an OP factor…

Sorry but I can´t agree to that…that would be the easy solution, if celestial brings problems create balancing per amulet, skills could have diferent coeficients depending on the amulet equiped.

I work in software and my company when faced with an argument like It’s hard technically someone always answers if it was easy everyone could do it. And 70% of the times we manage to go beyond what was considered hard technically.

Balance what is imbalanced and please don’t start removing things because it’s too hard…

Challenge yourselfs beyond what you think it’s possible, sometimes you fail sometimes you manage to do something everyone thought impossible.

When anet started they believed in a manifesto, they challenged conventions, and in gw1 went above and beyond, surpassing amazing odds…you as a company chose a hard path, you are facing balancing problems that are unique, just don´t start giving up.

Some of us still believe in you guys, I know you can find the solution.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Celestial amulet is fine, for most professions it is sub optimal amulet.

This is kind of the point of my bringing this up. It’s either meta or it’s useless. There’s no in-between.

ArenaNet just hasn’t found a way to strike a balance between specializing your stats and being a jack of all trades, so maybe it’s best that everyone just specializes stats and has a role.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Wolfey.3407:

Sadly it’s easier said then done,
I do believe removing it from PvP would be beneficial; however, you will have a ton of people raging at the top of their lungs threatening murder, suicide, and lawsuits because their class is “now broken and useless”.

A lot of people, have a hard time believing there is more to a class then what a youtube critic tells them is appropriate to play. Yes, that shouldn’t be a reason to keep it but it’s a factor…

It can be done though, there are examples of amulets and sigils not being added to pvp due to an OP factor…

Sorry but I can´t agree to that…that would be the easy solution, if celestial brings problems create balancing per amulet, skills could have diferent coeficients depending on the amulet equiped.

I work in software and my company when faced with an argument like It’s hard technically someone always answers if it was easy everyone could do it. And 70% of the times we manage to go beyond what was considered hard technically.

Balance what is imbalanced and please don’t start removing things because it’s too hard…

Challenge yourselfs beyond what you think it’s possible, sometimes you fail sometimes you manage to do something everyone thought impossible.

Just want to make it clear to newer players that Celestial wasn’t in the game at launch.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Wolfey.3407:

Sadly it’s easier said then done,
I do believe removing it from PvP would be beneficial; however, you will have a ton of people raging at the top of their lungs threatening murder, suicide, and lawsuits because their class is “now broken and useless”.

A lot of people, have a hard time believing there is more to a class then what a youtube critic tells them is appropriate to play. Yes, that shouldn’t be a reason to keep it but it’s a factor…

It can be done though, there are examples of amulets and sigils not being added to pvp due to an OP factor…

Sorry but I can´t agree to that…that would be the easy solution, if celestial brings problems create balancing per amulet, skills could have diferent coeficients depending on the amulet equiped.

I work in software and my company when faced with an argument like It’s hard technically someone always answers if it was easy everyone could do it. And 70% of the times we manage to go beyond what was considered hard technically.

Balance what is imbalanced and please don’t start removing things because it’s too hard…

Challenge yourselfs beyond what you think it’s possible, sometimes you fail sometimes you manage to do something everyone thought impossible.

Just want to make it clear to newer players that Celestial wasn’t in the game at launch.

That doesn´t justify getting rid of an amulet cause they failed to balance it…there are several ways to do that, do skill adjustments per amulet and it gets easier.

If the argument agaisnt doing that is because it´s hard my answer is start working then it won’t get any easier by saying it’s hard

idk when people will learn that celestial has nothing to do with imbalances.

certain marauder builds are over the top
certain celestial builds are over the top
one could even argue that there are carrion/rabid builds that are over the top but overshadowed by other things like high group cleanse, so they’re not all that worth it.

the biggest culprit right now in the game is burning, the cause of imbalance on certain builds. fix that and everything will get better.

there are other annoying things in the game, so after burning is fixed the whining will shift to them and it will most likely be PU and condi mesmers (and whatever AI builds are deemed “too brainless”).

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Wolfey.3407:

Sadly it’s easier said then done,
I do believe removing it from PvP would be beneficial; however, you will have a ton of people raging at the top of their lungs threatening murder, suicide, and lawsuits because their class is “now broken and useless”.

A lot of people, have a hard time believing there is more to a class then what a youtube critic tells them is appropriate to play. Yes, that shouldn’t be a reason to keep it but it’s a factor…

It can be done though, there are examples of amulets and sigils not being added to pvp due to an OP factor…

Sorry but I can´t agree to that…that would be the easy solution, if celestial brings problems create balancing per amulet, skills could have diferent coeficients depending on the amulet equiped.

I work in software and my company when faced with an argument like It’s hard technically someone always answers if it was easy everyone could do it. And 70% of the times we manage to go beyond what was considered hard technically.

Balance what is imbalanced and please don’t start removing things because it’s too hard…

Challenge yourselfs beyond what you think it’s possible, sometimes you fail sometimes you manage to do something everyone thought impossible.

Just want to make it clear to newer players that Celestial wasn’t in the game at launch.

That doesn´t justify getting rid of an amulet cause they failed to balance it…there are several ways to do that, do skill adjustments per amulet and it gets easier.

If the argument agaisnt doing that is because it´s hard my answer is start working then it won’t get any easier by saying it’s hard

There are already stat adjustments per amulet in the form of embedded damage and healing coefficients for each skill. These coefficients are plenty balanced across all the amulets, and I think many would agree that building for condition damage is actually good now compared to before; as an engineer, I definitely feel like running Marauder, Soldier, or Rabid each have their strengths and deficiencies, and each work well against certain classes versus others.

Right now, I think despite the qualms of Celestial being very good, this is probably the most diverse meta we’ve had in years. Bunker builds actually work, power builds actually work, and condition builds actually work. Nothing is left out, and I think we’re very close to finally achieving a real rock/paper/scissors role definition in PvP that doesn’t involve dedicated healers—which I was under the assumption was ArenaNet’s goal with Guild Wars 2.

So I think that your suggestion of retooling coefficients based on the amulet taken is pretty much working as intended minus Celestial. And the thing is, I think we would find it easy to “balance” Celestial, as the primary culprit right now is how saturated burning damage is. Nerf burning access and double dagger elementalists end up a lot less problematic.

But if burning access is nerfed to the point where elementalists are better off just specializing for power, then they’re just going to drop the Celestial amulet entirely, just as engineers have, and run something else depending on what role you want to fill on your team.

So my problem isn’t that Celestial is hard to balance so much as, by design, it’s a feast or famine amulet where either a class makes use of all stats it has, making it meta, or a class fails to make use of every stat it has, making it pointless to take.

It takes a lot of very specific values and traits to line up for Celestial to be good, and for that reason—when it’s good—it’s really good. But when it’s not good, it’s trash. And when it’s trash, no one is going to take it. So you have this situation where Celestial is either dominant or nonexistent for a class. This has pretty much always been the case since they introduced the amulet in PvP, and there hasn’t really been a time in this game’s life, as far as I can recall, where Celestial has been a middling amulet.

It’s always been feast or famine, and for some classes—especially engineer—it’s been a whole lot of feasting over the past couple years that in a lot of respects masked a lot of the deeper problems we have as a class that are now coming to light.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Wolfey.3407:

Sadly it’s easier said then done,
I do believe removing it from PvP would be beneficial; however, you will have a ton of people raging at the top of their lungs threatening murder, suicide, and lawsuits because their class is “now broken and useless”.

A lot of people, have a hard time believing there is more to a class then what a youtube critic tells them is appropriate to play. Yes, that shouldn’t be a reason to keep it but it’s a factor…

It can be done though, there are examples of amulets and sigils not being added to pvp due to an OP factor…

Sorry but I can´t agree to that…that would be the easy solution, if celestial brings problems create balancing per amulet, skills could have diferent coeficients depending on the amulet equiped.

I work in software and my company when faced with an argument like It’s hard technically someone always answers if it was easy everyone could do it. And 70% of the times we manage to go beyond what was considered hard technically.

Balance what is imbalanced and please don’t start removing things because it’s too hard…

Challenge yourselfs beyond what you think it’s possible, sometimes you fail sometimes you manage to do something everyone thought impossible.

Just want to make it clear to newer players that Celestial wasn’t in the game at launch.

That doesn´t justify getting rid of an amulet cause they failed to balance it…there are several ways to do that, do skill adjustments per amulet and it gets easier.

If the argument agaisnt doing that is because it´s hard my answer is start working then it won’t get any easier by saying it’s hard

There are already stat adjustments per amulet in the form of embedded damage and healing coefficients for each skill. These coefficients are plenty balanced across all the amulets, and I think many would agree that building for condition damage is actually good now compared to before; as an engineer, I definitely feel like running Marauder, Soldier, or Rabid each have their strengths and deficiencies, and each work well against certain classes versus others.

Right now, I think despite the qualms of Celestial being very good, this is probably the most diverse meta we’ve had in years. Bunker builds actually work, power builds actually work, and condition builds actually work. Nothing is left out, and I think we’re very close to finally achieving a real rock/paper/scissors role definition in PvP that doesn’t involve dedicated healers—which I was under the assumption was ArenaNet’s goal with Guild Wars 2.

So I think that your suggestion of retooling coefficients based on the amulet taken is pretty much working as intended minus Celestial. And the thing is, I think we would find it easy to “balance” Celestial, as the primary culprit right now is how saturated burning damage is. Nerf burning access and double dagger elementalists end up a lot less problematic.

But if burning access is nerfed to the point where elementalists are better off just specializing for power, then they’re just going to drop the Celestial amulet entirely, just as engineers have, and run something else depending on what role you want to fill on your team.

So my problem isn’t that Celestial is hard to balance so much as, by design, it’s a feast or famine amulet where either a class makes use of all stats it has, making it meta, or a class fails to make use of every stat it has, making it pointless to take.

It takes a lot of very specific values and traits to line up for Celestial to be good, and for that reason—when it’s good—it’s really good. But when it’s not good, it’s trash. And when it’s trash, no one is going to take it. So you have this situation where Celestial is either dominant or nonexistent for a class. This has pretty much always been the case since they introduced the amulet in PvP, and there hasn’t really been a time in this game’s life, as far as I can recall, where Celestial has been a middling amulet.

It’s always been feast or famine, and for some classes—especially engineer—it’s been a whole lot of feasting over the past couple years that in a lot of respects masked a lot of the deeper problems we have as a class that are now coming to light.

Nice reply and I agree with what you wrote, I’m not a defensor of removal of any amulet in the game because I agree that we are really close to a nice state of things, elementalist need nerfs true…but that is mostly due to how much burning stacks we can dish out while having good sustain, If that got reduced then we would have a class with good sustain and reduced damage (pre patch this was our status)

Would also love to see warrior/engineer/ranger get back in meta (although marauder warrior still sees use) perhaps specializations are gonna help with that.

Warriors and engineers are close to meta just need a bit of tweaking and rangers need a role to fit in meta perhaps druid will be that role (hopefully)

You have a short memory, apparently.

Celestial builds only became viable when they changed strength runes. Might stacking is what makes celestial runnable at all. Boons are the problem.

Arkimedes.8730:

You have a short memory, apparently.

Celestial builds only became viable when they changed strength runes. Might stacking is what makes celestial runnable at all. Boons are the problem.

Celestial dagger/dagger was falling out of meta before patch even with might stacking…neither celestial nor might stacking are the problem, the problem is elementalist now dishes too much burning stacks and spams blindness tweek that and they get back in line.

And excude me by focusing this on d/d elementalist but it stands as the strongest celestial build of the moment.

We all know what this is really about. OP Eles have been around for quite some time. Always in the Meta. But now that Necromancers are using the cele amulet and doing well with it, it has reached a new point of UNACCEPTABLE!!!

Cele amulet not the problem. It’s one of the least used amulet right now. Ele is the problem. Burn damage isn’t the problem, the amount of stacks some classes put out is the problem. Stop suggesting changes that will hardly touch the real problem that will further nerf the classes that are not a problem.

Shaogin.2679:

But now that Necromancers are using the cele amulet and doing well with it, it has reached a new point of UNACCEPTABLE!!!

Not at all. I actually play my necromancer a lot with the signet build and enjoy it, namely because it is so effective against elementalists.

Arkimedes.8730:

You have a short memory, apparently.

Celestial builds only became viable when they changed strength runes. Might stacking is what makes celestial runnable at all. Boons are the problem.

also the prepatch cele engi build didn’t focus on mightstacking at all since vamp runes and intell sigils with high condi pressure gave it enough damage to not even need it.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Malchior.5732:

I think the issue with removing Celestial amulet is that we can’t mix and match certain stats and then making a Hybrid is much more difficult.

Hybrid builds might be the problem, though.

A setup intended to be utilized by hybrid classes is hardly the issue at hand. Currently one of the only situations where we see this stat combination as being overbearing is through combination with Elementalist sustain and duration/frequency of their burn applications. This is not to say that burning and celestial is the problem, but rather that certain adjustments need to be made so that this particular setup is not so effective that it dwarfs others by comparison.

Mnemesis.8257:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Malchior.5732:

I think the issue with removing Celestial amulet is that we can’t mix and match certain stats and then making a Hybrid is much more difficult.

Hybrid builds might be the problem, though.

A setup intended to be utilized by hybrid classes is hardly the issue at hand. Currently one of the only situations where we see this stat combination as being overbearing is through combination with Elementalist sustain and duration/frequency of their burn applications. This is not to say that burning and celestial is the problem, but rather that certain adjustments need to be made so that this particular setup is not so effective that it dwarfs others by comparison.

+1 due to common sense, finally someone that sees things as they are

Arkimedes.8730:

You have a short memory, apparently.

Celestial builds only became viable when they changed strength runes. Might stacking is what makes celestial runnable at all. Boons are the problem.

Changing base game mechanics, potentially breaking things in ALL game modes – just to pat defenders of one amulet in one game mode? Lol, lol and lol.
No, just no.

Cele amulet has nothing to do with anything. Eles have gotten stronger due to streamlined traits and other trait changes, they have always been able to stack might extremely easy and now with burn damage increased now they have even more out going damage as they have always been able to easily stack that too.
Basically all these minor and major changes to classes and other mechanics have power creeped the hell out of eles and it just shows how poorly anet cross checks current game mechanics before they change things.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Mnemesis.8257:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Malchior.5732:

I think the issue with removing Celestial amulet is that we can’t mix and match certain stats and then making a Hybrid is much more difficult.

Hybrid builds might be the problem, though.

A setup intended to be utilized by hybrid classes is hardly the issue at hand. Currently one of the only situations where we see this stat combination as being overbearing is through combination with Elementalist sustain and duration/frequency of their burn applications. This is not to say that burning and celestial is the problem, but rather that certain adjustments need to be made so that this particular setup is not so effective that it dwarfs others by comparison.

+1 due to common sense, finally someone that sees things as they are

+2, but if dd find more difficult targets than a good necro, they will QQ to, becouse their class lost effectivness, and player complain if is to hard to play.

A small example, before patch my bunker guard could old a d/d for quite some time, once in a while happened stale the combats, same with other classes on wvw, i received l2p noob pm’s alot becouse i was delaying camp capture…

So if Anet creates those adjustments players will whine becouse they think they deserve that reward kill by just playin that build, itshould work flawlessly becouse they true believe they have skills, and that cause less atraction to pvp lesser players playin becouse there isnt a “easyer” way to win.

Sorry to be blunt to the community, but effort in gw2 builds means unbalanced build while a effective build/gimmick that hardly can be countered mean balance.. this is what all are most expecting.. players want heavy AA damage in every class and builds mostly for a lower effort of a easy win.

SaintSnow.6593:

Cele amulet has nothing to do with anything. Eles have gotten stronger due to streamlined traits and other trait changes, they have always been able to stack might extremely easy and now with burn damage increased now they have even more out going damage as they have always been able to easily stack that too.
Basically all these minor and major changes to classes and other mechanics have power creeped the hell out of eles and it just shows how poorly anet cross checks current game mechanics before they change things.

You’re looking at it from the perspective of Celestial being overpowered.

I’m looking at it from the perspective of Celestial being the only real choice for elementalists for over a year now with no other real option. I am not concerned with what’s overpowered so much as the state of the meta.

So long as celestial is available, it is a crutch and in some cases is the preferred amulet to sustain on point. Over all, for classes with access to healing/damage/burning it becomes the preferred option. Post patch, you can also offset the low stats on celestial with certain traits that buff stats for a short period of time. It would be best, in my opinion, to limit amulets to 4 stats. However, so long as it is available, I will continue to build around it for my engi, warrior, guardian since those classes have access to the above traits. For solo queue, it’s only fitting since you never know what role you will play on the team and it beats having to switch chars.

I’m fine with removing cele.

D/D Ele is the problem though, probably just want to tone them down a bit instead of removing a stat option for everyone.

If anything i think they should completely remove the spvp amulet system and use the regular gear system.

Then start balancing again from scratch, it works both spvp and wvw simultaneously.

It is become quite evident, they simply cant or dont have the resources to balance both systems simultaneously.