Guild Wars 2

I’ve been pondering something for a while and just wanted to ask about the general design of things. The two classes (also the two needing the most help duel to lack of sustain) with high HP seem be falling behind, but when I look at their heals (warrior and Necro) They don’t really seem to be proportionate to their HP. Most of their heals (With a slight exception to maybe Consume Conditions) seems to heal just like any other HP-tier, and sometimes with a longer cooldown even. Doesn’t this defeat the purpose of the higher HP?

Having our lack of other defenses blamed on our high HP total seems kind of counter productive if we don’t heal proportionately to that amount of HP. In this case even as a bunker we’re doomed to dwidle away while others have heals proportionate to their HP and various other mechanics to support low HP.

Thoughts/Insights?

The benefit of high health is that you can survive spike damage better. I think anet purposefully put that in contrast to classes that are better at sustained healing.

But yes, it seems like the way it was balanced high health doesn’t mean as much as having good healing in most situations.

Yeah I understand they’re supposed to use it to survive burst, but that’s why other classes have so much protection/vigor/CCbreaks and tps. Our HP pool just isn’t enough without being able to properly heal it.

Yeah sure, let’s give the highest healings to the classes with highest HP pool. Perfect pvp balance!!!!!!111111111111

Rerroll.9083:

Yeah sure, let’s give the highest healings to the classes with highest HP pool. Perfect pvp balance!!!!!!111111111111

Considering highest hp classes have lowest defense capabilities(low or non existent access to vigor, protection, high amounts of evades, teleports, invulnerability, and so on), they should definitely have better healing than they currently have(especially warriors), and that’s the core of a problem why those classes(again, warriors and necros) aren’t really used all that much in tPvP.

Rerroll.9083:

Yeah sure, let’s give the highest healings to the classes with highest HP pool. Perfect pvp balance!!!!!!111111111111

You didn’t think this out well did you?

Okay. Say I have 27k hp. I take 10k damage. I head for 5k at the end of it, because I don’t have a lot of avoidance. I now have 22k hp and draining.

Okay, say I have 15k hp, I take 6k because I could stun break, I had a lot of evades and protection. I heal for 5k. I’m back to 15k.

Repeat this with a high HP hemorrhaging hp at that rate, It takes about 5-6 “heal rotations” for me to die off, while it takes about 15 for the ladder to finally die.

Now, I know it’s not this flat, it’s just an example of how potential incoming damage is. High HP classes have much less access to Vigor (dodges, flat damage and cc avoidance), Protection(Raw damage reduction), Generally less Regen(added healing), Less mobility (Escaping, which can be applied for various uses), etc. The design of High HP is to sustain burst and be able to take a few hits, rather than avoiding it all or mitigating it. However if we’re taking damage at a higher rate than everyone else and healing for the same amount, we dwindle away, while others can continue to last unless they make a mistake (which is how fights should be won, by overcoming and performing better, not racing the clock, if I can’t OUTperform, then I will lose by default)

Rerroll.9083:

Yeah sure, let’s give the highest healings to the classes with highest HP pool. Perfect pvp balance!!!!!!111111111111

The two classes with the highest Health pools are unarguably the two worst classes in PvP.

Coincidence? No.

No amount of HP will matter if you can’t heal it.

Consider necro lich form. It still dies within a few seconds to a team despite boasting easily 40k hp.

Evasion negates all damage. Ckasses can easily spike 10k damage in their rotations outside bunkers. You can’t tank 20-30k damage.

But if you have a tool that teleports you out of reach of the focus train or spike, you effectively mitigated 30k damage.

The best way to mitigate damage is not to face tank it — it’s to stop it from happening.

And that’s why warrior or necro will simply not survive like thief or ele or mesmer or engineer, simply because even if you doubled their HP pool they’d quickly have to run for their lives as soon as a group puts their eyes on them.

Necromancers and warriors need ways to shut down the offenses headed their way if they are to survive. They cannot tank it.

Most importantly, no amount of conditions will save you from being used like a pinball if you don’t have stability. Conditions are easy to cleanse, they are not reliable for mitigating damage like boons, and you can’t apply conditions to begin with if you are being thrown around by two eles chaining updrafts into earthquakes into roots into guardian hammer.

This thread is somewhat biased, but it still hits a key issue.

The highest damage mitigation skills in the entire game, Evasion, Stealth, Teleportation, and healing were given to classes that were (atleast I think) meant to be glassy, making them far tankier than High HP classes that I thought were supposed to be tanky. Especially when you consider that In order to be tanky on a High HP class, you HAVE to build for it, often sacrificing quite a bit in order to do so, most low HP classes are naturally tanky.

For instance, a Mesmer is naturally tanky because it has high mitigation: Evasion, Mobility, and Stealth – In it’s class mechanic/weapon set. A Mesmer can, and will survive far more than any high HP class because of that.

My regen Ranger can heal for 1,500 HP per second using Troll Ungent and normal Regeneration, for 10 seconds. On a 15 second cooldown (25 (CD) – 10 (Dur.)). WHILE having 1,500+ condition damage. WHILE having 2,500+ toughness. WHILE being able to crit 3k+ physical damage due to the pet. WHILE having some of the best condition removal in the game. WHILE having some of the best condition application in the game on AUTOATTACK ALONE. Which is complete, and absolute nonsense.

I suggested a while back that Necromancers, should have more access to offensive mitigation conditions, and high healing capability. Blindness, Weakness, and heavy regeneration/vampirism. I also suggested that Warriors should have more condition removal, but ultimately have far more toughness, through traiting, at the cost of some burst.

I mentioned the same thing in the State of the Necromancer thread.

It’s one of the more obvious things ANET hasn’t fixed yet.

As is, a large health pool is not a great trade-off for having limited other defenses like (mobility, evades, dodge/vigor, invulnerability, stealth, etc).

The reason is simple. Things like evades, dodges, and invulnerability negate 100% of damage regardless if 1 or 100 people are attacking you. On the flip side, the extra health only helps you…

1. If you are at 100% health when attacked, AND
2. If you aren’t getting attacked by multiple foes that eat up the extra 3-5k health in 1 sec or less.

On top of that, if your heals aren’t proportional to the increased health pool, it’s difficult to ever return to 100% while in combat. On the flip side, classes with other defenses and escapes get them back regularly off mostly low cooldowns.

Even worse, a class like the necromancer starts from scratch with zero life force in fights, so it doesn’t even have one of its key defensive options available. What other class is so neutered or easier to kill than a necro with no life force?

I’ve played a lot of the classes and the major problem with Necros is that they seem to be balanced over having full life force and, even then, they can’t escape a zerg like other classes.

It’s a constant pain having to start with zero life force AND having heals that aren’t even proportional to your increased health to bring you close to 100% again, while you watch other classes constantly getting back to 100% or having their stronger defenses come off cooldown faster.

We’re also not even mentioning the necros ridiculously long cast times and weak utilities that include SELF-DAMAGE to your “extra” health pool (even if you miss your target).

In short, it should be a surprise why necros are one of the least popular professions to play and least successful.

From a warrior perspective, lack of damage mitigation/disengages make it very difficult to compete with mesmers and thieves as a dps role. At the same time lack of healing+condi removal makes it difficult to compete with guard/ele/ranger as a bunker role.

Warrior cleave damage and CC almost makes up for it as a dps role, but it needs to be played perfectly and uncountered to be effective.

@Altroll, Yes it may be a little biased, mainly because I’ve been maining necro recently, but I actually feel like this issue is worse on warriors than necros, so that pads the bias. And my initial thoughts of this spawned long ago watching warriors and looking into their mechanics, an I’ve never really mained a warrior.

However, I don’t feel like I have so say much else. Speshal said everything I could say and more. I hope ANET catches wind of this. Maybe someone with some warrior experience can toss a stone into the well.

I would consider myself an above average Warrior, I love using the class and I am quite effective on it imo. You are infact quite correct, Warriors are by far absolutely pathetic in survivability.

It’s literally impossible to bunker correctly as a Warrior (even a Mesmer can bunker better), and if you want to be able to do any damage, you will be easier to kill than any other class, even with the high HP. I have been able to be a bit tanky, but again, at a sacrifice of damage. Again, what Warriors need, is higher healing/access to protection. Necromancers need more blinds, chills, poisons, weakness, and much stronger regeneration (Vampirism).

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I would consider myself an above average Warrior, I love using the class and I am quite effective on it imo. You are infact quite correct, Warriors are by far absolutely pathetic in survivability.

It’s literally impossible to bunker correctly as a Warrior (even a Mesmer can bunker better), and if you want to be able to do any damage, you will be easier to kill than any other class, even with the high HP. I have been able to be a bit tanky, but again, at a sacrifice of damage.

“Even Mesmer can” can be kinda tricky. I’ve seen certain Phant defender+Staff/sword mesmers that could take a beating haha. I’d say far more than both necros and Warrior. Phant Defender absorbs 50% damage, with Signet of Illusion, that’s some good uptime. I just wanted to throw that in.

Actually, no. Even the toughest bunker builds for Mesmer are less effective than an Acrobatics S/D Thief, but are infact far superior to a Warrior attempting to bunker. However, I have said before in Necro forums, that there is a way to bunker with Necro just as effectively with Guardian, so I cannot lie there, we can bunker. We simply cannot tank, and we lack NORMAL survivability that other classes have in spades WITHOUT having to spec for it.

The difference between the necro and warrior, is that the warrior actually has damage. Necro damage is complete garbage outside spreading bleed stacks with epidemic.

Necro power specs are inferior to other classes’ spec — their damage and survivability is bad compared to mesmer/thief/warrior.

Necro condition specs are outdone by specs that have access to burning, because burning is supremely better to bleeding as a condition.

You bring the necro for the rez signet and aoe fear, period.

Everything else, including boon stribbing, a class like mesmer or sword thief can do better on top of having much better damage.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Actually, no. Even the toughest bunker builds for Mesmer are less effective than an Acrobatics S/D Thief, but are infact far superior to a Warrior attempting to bunker. However, I have said before in Necro forums, that there is a way to bunker with Necro just as effectively with Guardian, so I cannot lie there, we can bunker. We simply cannot tank, and we lack NORMAL survivability that other classes have in spades WITHOUT having to spec for it.

I agree thakittens worse than optimal bunker, I’m just saying they’ve very survivable. But to the Necro bunker thing, I agree we can bunker- but I’d say to an extent. We can solo bunk (1v1) decently, or at least I can as an MM bunker, but I feel like even then, we lose our shine when we try to bunker when vs multiple enemies. We can’t bunk multiple enemies like a S/D thief, Regen ranger, Guardian, Engi and ele can. (And maybe on par or alittle worse than Mes on multiple, because they have target drops and 25% uptime invuln).

As far as I’ve ever noticed because our lack of ability to regain a proportionate amount of health, we can’t hold off multiple enemies nearly like other classes can (save warrior).

Give this guy a snickers.

Zenith.7301:

Necro power specs are inferior to other classes’ spec — their damage and survivability is bad compared to mesmer/thief/warrior.

Actually, a Wellmancer is the second strongest burster in the game when specced properly, second only to a Shatter Mesmer. However, we do lack the survivability other classes get with high damage.

Zenith.7301:

Necro condition specs are outdone by specs that have access to burning, because burning is supremely better to bleeding as a condition.

Very true, we are infact the 3rd worst class in the game for condition application.

Zenith.7301:

You bring the necro for the rez signet and aoe fear, period.

Not quite, I know many people that bring me in for group AoE and heavy pressuring. I also am one of the few Necromancers that uses Lich effectively enough to easily turn the tide of a team battle, even when outnumbered.

Zenith.7301:

Everything else, including boon stribbing, a class like mesmer or sword thief can do better on top of having much better damage.

Actually, we have the best boonstripping in the game. The problem is that S/D Thief is more useful for that since they can use the boons to kill enemies and aid themselves, which is better than corruption in most instances.

ronpierce.2760:

I agree thakittens worse than optimal bunker, I’m just saying they’ve very survivable. But to the Necro bunker thing, I agree we can bunker- but I’d say to an extent. We can solo bunk (1v1) decently, or at least I can as an MM bunker, but I feel like even then, we lose our shine when we try to bunker when vs multiple enemies. We can’t bunk multiple enemies like a S/D thief, Regen ranger, Guardian, Engi and ele can. (And maybe on par or alittle worse than Mes on multiple, because they have target drops and 25% uptime invuln).

As far as I’ve ever noticed because our lack of ability to regain a proportionate amount of health, we can’t hold off multiple enemies nearly like other classes can (save warrior).

As I have said, the bunker build Spazzcromancer created is just as effective as any Guardian bunker. Capable of holding off multiple enemies. I cannot post the full build but it focuses on protection, and deathshroud.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

As I have said, the bunker build Spazzcromancer created is just as effective as any Guardian bunker. Capable of holding off multiple enemies. I cannot post the full build but it focuses on protection, and deathshroud.

I assume I kind of get the idea of the build, is it like 0/0/10/30/30 or 0/0/20/20/30? My question is, while being able to tank is it as useful to a group as other bunkers? And does it have the potential to stay on point like a guardian while also throwing others off point?

edit: save this for personal conversation, this will get off topic really fast.

About healing … in this game. The whole way Arenanet “broke” away from the holy (or unholy if you will) trinity is that all classes can self sustain in their own way.

Now … this is fine … no complaints about this mechanic. But as OP has mentioned, some self sustain feels pretty measly compared to others. Sure, a good portion of this can be chalked up to skill and how much damage you can avoid between heals / trying to sustain (aside from the fact a lot of the PvP in this game is AI driven and requires little to no skill to take advantage of) IE: turrets / pets / other atrocities along those lines, which will kitten your foe’s ability to sustain for you.

Bah … I’m going off on a tangent here. For most classes … and some in particular, sustain feels WAY too strong. Which is most likely why OP feels that their sustain in particular is so weak. Contrast like that may make them feel UP … but … there is still another possible problem behind this.

Damage … spike / burst damage in specific. It’s too kitten high! (Insert meme?) Spike damage feels so high, from all aspects of this game that the bunker / tank oriented classes, such as Guardian (in specific) feel as though they are better going off with high damage / spike builds. “Bruiser” builds hardly feel viable at all, and even worse on top of this is that condition builds feels even less viable than that!

Why? Because immediate damage is terrible, there is little to no pressure at all. The damage over time WOULD be amazing if there were not particular things in this game such as a class having the ability to remove 1 or 2 conditions periodically, WITHOUT even thinking about it!

If you don’t even have to think about conditions to counter them … what room is there for counter play, and what does that do to those who play condition builds? It gimps them / makes them less viable unless the entire team is built around conditions to layer / CONSTANTLY re-apply these effects.

Condition removal is just too accessible / easy / requires such little amounts of skill to utilize that it breaks condition builds, especially for a class such as thief. It just doesn’t feel competitive / pressuring / strong enough to be truly good.

For example with condition removal, as a thief.

Take hide in shadows, and go 10 into shadow arts while grabbing shadow’s embrace. Hide in shadows will remove burning, poison, ALL stacks of bleeding, and then one additional condition on top of that. FOUR conditions for ONE skill.

It doesn’t stop there. You can take Shadowstep utility and just quickly use it twice for 3 conditions to be removed at once. This can be coupled with shadow return from sword mainhand, for another two conditions removed AND a stun break on top of that.

This isn’t enough? How about runeset of lyssa on top of that! Basilisk venom, 45 second cooldown to remove ALL conditions, gain ALL boons, and then have a 1 & 1/2 second stun added to your next spike attempt.

Which, going back to the beginning of what I was saying, simply further amplifies the problem of how strong spike / burst damage is compared to condition. And only makes this game more stale than it already is, as there are few classes even worth a kitten playing condition as.

Oh yes, they break walls / turrets / treb slower than spike built classes too, thanks to the fact you’re dedicated to condition damage and not raw damage. So really … it’s not a wonder that this game doesn’t feel like there’s many build choices / variety …

We literally purchased an unfinished and most definitely unpolished product, at least, if you look at it from a PvP perspective. And that really irks the hell out of me because what sold this game to me was all the garbage they spewed about esports and how they really badly wanted it to make it into that scene.

I think money was the motivational factor in spreading lies like that to their future player base. It’s like I’m playing for a business who just wants money, not a company / group of people that wanted to make a great game that players would love.

Brigg.6189 basically gave you the proper answer.

High HP = Low sustain
Low HP = High sustain

That’s how it is supposed to be balanced but currently there is a problem:

High sustain > High HP

That’s why you see more ele bunkers than warrior bunkers. Giving warriors and necros heal skills which are based on their HP is a terrible idea though. First of all it would make Healing Power pointless and secondly it would make necros and warrior OP. Why would you pick a guardian or ele bunker who is susceptible to burst if you can have a warrior without that disadvantage? Ofc it feels weird to heal for 50% of your HP as a warrior while the ele goes back to 100% but that’s simply because of their base HP.

I do agree that warriors and necros need a buff when it comes to sustain but it shouldn’t be based on their HP.

Like Death Knights in WoW:

They had less defences, but more self healing than other tank classes.

Not saying it should be a percentage of HP, but it may be an idea: Warriors not having protection, but having a stable heal over time. Then it’s up to the player avoiding being spiked.

Thus I think Healing Signet should be reworked, or buffed. A lot.

Blackhat.4016:

Brigg.6189 basically gave you the proper answer.

High HP = Low sustain
Low HP = High sustain

That’s how it is supposed to be balanced but currently there is a problem:

High sustain > High HP

That’s why you see more ele bunkers than warrior bunkers. Giving warriors and necros heal skills which are based on their HP is a terrible idea though. First of all it would make Healing Power pointless and secondly it would make necros and warrior OP. Why would you pick a guardian or ele bunker who is susceptible to burst if you can have a warrior without that disadvantage? Ofc it feels weird to heal for 50% of your HP as a warrior while the ele goes back to 100% but that’s simply because of their base HP.

I do agree that warriors and necros need a buff when it comes to sustain but it shouldn’t be based on their HP.

I’m not sure you’re understanding what’s being said. I never said heal % of health. I said the % of health we regain from a heal is not proportionate to how much health others heal. We already lost a lot of defenses such as Invuln/Vigor/Protection to have this HP, not healing more to support a higher base HP means we have almost no sustain. I’m not talking about healing % hp, just our heals in general need to be bigger to support a higher HP pool. Read my (I believe) second or third post, and it explains why.

ronpierce.2760:

Blackhat.4016:

Brigg.6189 basically gave you the proper answer.

High HP = Low sustain
Low HP = High sustain

That’s how it is supposed to be balanced but currently there is a problem:

High sustain > High HP

That’s why you see more ele bunkers than warrior bunkers. Giving warriors and necros heal skills which are based on their HP is a terrible idea though. First of all it would make Healing Power pointless and secondly it would make necros and warrior OP. Why would you pick a guardian or ele bunker who is susceptible to burst if you can have a warrior without that disadvantage? Ofc it feels weird to heal for 50% of your HP as a warrior while the ele goes back to 100% but that’s simply because of their base HP.

I do agree that warriors and necros need a buff when it comes to sustain but it shouldn’t be based on their HP.

I’m not sure you’re understanding what’s being said. I never said heal % of health. I said the % of health we regain from a heal is not proportionate to how much health others heal. We already lost a lot of defenses such as Invuln/Vigor/Protection to have this HP, not healing more to support a higher base HP means we have almost no sustain. I’m not talking about healing % hp, just our heals in general need to be bigger to support a higher HP pool. Read my (I believe) second or third post, and it explains why.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your first post then.

Balancing Invuln/Vigor/Protection is a completely different topic imo since you can’t really compare them to healing. How much is 1 second of Protection in healing? As you can see this doesn’t really work.

Base HP however can be somewhat compared to healing.

Imo the heal skills should be slightly better and healing power should synergize more with the rest of a warrior or necro build. The skills they currently have are definitely not bad but healing power isn’t as good as it is on other professions like eles. Like I said before they are not supposed to heal as much but they should be able to win in a sustained fight if they spec for it.

In the end warriors and necros need small adjustments on both healing and damage mitigation.

Blackhat.4016:

ronpierce.2760:

Blackhat.4016:

Brigg.6189 basically gave you the proper answer.

High HP = Low sustain
Low HP = High sustain

That’s how it is supposed to be balanced but currently there is a problem:

High sustain > High HP

That’s why you see more ele bunkers than warrior bunkers. Giving warriors and necros heal skills which are based on their HP is a terrible idea though. First of all it would make Healing Power pointless and secondly it would make necros and warrior OP. Why would you pick a guardian or ele bunker who is susceptible to burst if you can have a warrior without that disadvantage? Ofc it feels weird to heal for 50% of your HP as a warrior while the ele goes back to 100% but that’s simply because of their base HP.

I do agree that warriors and necros need a buff when it comes to sustain but it shouldn’t be based on their HP.

I’m not sure you’re understanding what’s being said. I never said heal % of health. I said the % of health we regain from a heal is not proportionate to how much health others heal. We already lost a lot of defenses such as Invuln/Vigor/Protection to have this HP, not healing more to support a higher base HP means we have almost no sustain. I’m not talking about healing % hp, just our heals in general need to be bigger to support a higher HP pool. Read my (I believe) second or third post, and it explains why.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your first post then.

Balancing Invuln/Vigor/Protection is a completely different topic imo since you can’t really compare them to healing. How much is 1 second of Protection in healing? As you can see this doesn’t really work.

Base HP however can be somewhat compared to healing.

Imo the heal skills should be slightly better and healing power should synergize more with the rest of a warrior or necro build. The skills they currently have are definitely not bad but healing power isn’t as good as it is on other professions like eles. Like I said before they are not supposed to heal as much but they should be able to win in a sustained fight if they spec for it.

In the end warriors and necros need small adjustments on both healing and damage mitigation.

Eles don’t necessarily use cleric for their heals not to suck.

Making heals dependent on healing power to be any good will leave the warrior and necro where they started, which is nowhere because the healing power stat only benefits one button for them (their weaponskills outside necro dagger don’t do any noticeable healing), whereas in the case of the ele and guardian they’ve got MANY healing sources outside their number 6 skill.

Generally speaking healing based of your health is the worst idea there is and its not the way to buff those classes
Anyway..More health is just to give an initial advantage to those classes which should go away after some time into the battle.So dont look at hp and armor and think “oh anet intended warriors ,necros for tanking” cause they actually didnt.At least not through healing
Guards and eles make more sence to cover that role based on how they were build

Yeh they should have better heals. The warrior heals are embarrasing. So either give high hp classes bigger heals or reduce the amount of cr.ap they get which can be justified by their high hp pools

Zenith.7301:

Blackhat.4016:

ronpierce.2760:

Blackhat.4016:

Brigg.6189 basically gave you the proper answer.

High HP = Low sustain
Low HP = High sustain

That’s how it is supposed to be balanced but currently there is a problem:

High sustain > High HP

That’s why you see more ele bunkers than warrior bunkers. Giving warriors and necros heal skills which are based on their HP is a terrible idea though. First of all it would make Healing Power pointless and secondly it would make necros and warrior OP. Why would you pick a guardian or ele bunker who is susceptible to burst if you can have a warrior without that disadvantage? Ofc it feels weird to heal for 50% of your HP as a warrior while the ele goes back to 100% but that’s simply because of their base HP.

I do agree that warriors and necros need a buff when it comes to sustain but it shouldn’t be based on their HP.

I’m not sure you’re understanding what’s being said. I never said heal % of health. I said the % of health we regain from a heal is not proportionate to how much health others heal. We already lost a lot of defenses such as Invuln/Vigor/Protection to have this HP, not healing more to support a higher base HP means we have almost no sustain. I’m not talking about healing % hp, just our heals in general need to be bigger to support a higher HP pool. Read my (I believe) second or third post, and it explains why.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood your first post then.

Balancing Invuln/Vigor/Protection is a completely different topic imo since you can’t really compare them to healing. How much is 1 second of Protection in healing? As you can see this doesn’t really work.

Base HP however can be somewhat compared to healing.

Imo the heal skills should be slightly better and healing power should synergize more with the rest of a warrior or necro build. The skills they currently have are definitely not bad but healing power isn’t as good as it is on other professions like eles. Like I said before they are not supposed to heal as much but they should be able to win in a sustained fight if they spec for it.

In the end warriors and necros need small adjustments on both healing and damage mitigation.

Eles don’t necessarily use cleric for their heals not to suck.

Making heals dependent on healing power to be any good will leave the warrior and necro where they started, which is nowhere because the healing power stat only benefits one button for them (their weaponskills outside necro dagger don’t do any noticeable healing), whereas in the case of the ele and guardian they’ve got MANY healing sources outside their number 6 skill.

Exactly. That’s what I said as well right here:

“healing power should synergize more with the rest of a warrior or necro build”

Maybe I should have made it more clear. Heal skills should scale with healing power though. It works like that for every profession and it shouldn’t be different for necros or warriors. They only need some changes to make healing power better on them. Traits for bunker builds or certain skills would be a good option imo.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh they should have better heals. The warrior heals are embarrasing. So either give high hp classes bigger heals or reduce the amount of cr.ap they get which can be justified by their high hp pools

Thats true!But when they do give better healing that wont be because theres this rule in game balancing that says more hp requires more ways to recover it,as the op says in the title

Everyone has abilities that are adjusted to their healing (such as boon access), so they can heal proportionately to their HP, almost every build can, if played well, go back to 100% from 30% and so forth. A warrior especially but also necro, cannot really do that. They have no sustain in that way, which is not good for balance. They’re doomed to lose if they don’t kill fast enough. That said, a large issue here is that they don’t heal enough of their HP pool when they heal, while others heal a larger percentage of their HP.

Yeah, heals should scale with HP if we want higher HP pool to be a real advantage and I’ll explain you why.

Let’s assume that higher HP pool is given in order to compensate for some lack of other defensive mechanic.

The concept behind Effective HP is that your HPs are more valuable the more you’re capable to defend them. Same can be said about Effective Heals, since the amount of HP restored are better if you lose less HP over time. Basically, the amount of HP and Heals is multiplied by a coefficient which represents the amount of “defensive capability” someone has. We can say that two professions have the same survivability if their EHP (the overall HP pool value) and EH (the ability to restore the HPs) are the same.

So, usually professions with higher HP pools lacks of defensive mechanics other professions with lower HP pools have. So, their coefficient will be more likely lower than the other professions. Let’s say, for instance, that the defensive coefficient is 1.2 for Necros and Warriors (NW), 1.3 for Rangers, Engineers and Mesmers (REM) and 1.4 for Guardian, Thieves and Elementalists (GTE). Other values does not affect the reasoning.

So, EHP-wise, GTE’s lower HP pool is compensated by the higher defensive coefficient, which makes the EHP of all the professions basically the same.

What about EH? The heals are the same on every professions. So, while GTE and REM have an higher coefficient on their heals, NW suffers from a lower defensive coefficient making their heals less effective so, overall, EH of NW professions is lower.

While EHP are the same on all professions, EH are higher on professions with higher HP while it is lower on profession with less HPs.

The solution? Make the heals scaling accordingly with the base HP value.

I think this was talked about that warrior heals are weak and will be raised. It would be fair to get higher scaling since the lower hp pool classes have their EHP equal to ours already by protection and invul/dodging/blocks…..More regen and about equal heals just turn the tide in their favor