Guild Wars 2

Avead.5760:

Yep cause 3 dodges every 5 sec is too little..lol every dodge is a sec of invulnerability.
Add to that that opponent has skills with casting time which he does no damage while casting(no need to dodge then) plus your ports which are countless and the abuse of los..
Define sustain pls..Cause yeah thief cant stand still and soak damage.He has all the tools to avoid it and more.The "more " is the problem.Something needs to go.Not much be it a steal nerf,los on port,some reduce on dodging (not much),damage,landspeed..Whatever those who “balance” choose to take away

3 dodge every 5 sec ? Maybe first time when is your endurance 100% no over all time.

For you : Each dodge requires 50% endurance, meaning that characters can dodge twice in a row when at 100% endurance. Endurance regenerates over time, at a base rate of 5% per second and a max rate of 10% per second

Thief endurace trait
Feline Grace – Dodging returns some of the endurance used.
(Endurance gained: 15)

Thief vigor up time with all traits is 60%.

vs

Other classes with endurance regen traits

Traits that increase endurance regeneration rate
Guardian Purity of Body – Your Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect also regenerates endurance.
Engineer Adrenal Implant – Endurance regeneration is increased.
Ranger Natural Vigor – Increases endurance regeneration.
Elementalist Vigorous Scepter – Endurance recharges faster while wielding a scepter.
Elementalist – Your endurance regenerates faster while channeling skills.

Traits that cause skills to restore endurance
Warrior – Burst skills restore endurance.
Engineer – Using toolbelt skills partially restores endurance.
Elementalist – Arcane and signet skills restore endurance when used.

Dont worry Thief has not the best endurance regen in this game =)

The heal skill gives 6/15 vigor, stealing gives 13/21 vigor, the uptime on vigor is closer to 80%. Feline grace with vigor means one dodge every 4s.

“Thief hasnt got the best endurance regen in the game”
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop trolling
feline grace=the more you spam dodge the more endurance regen rate you gain>30 sec arcane skills,burstskills,toolbelt skills..

withdraw+ vigorous recovery+ feline grace+flanking strike+signet of agility
this is almost perma evade, and u can switch to shortbow and disabling shot+ infiltrator’s arrow+energy sigil if u want.

And yes thief got the best endurance regen in this game =)

SunnyLane.9386:

withdraw+ vigorous recovery+ feline grace+flanking strike+signet of agility
this is almost perma evade, and u can switch to shortbow and disabling shot+ infiltrator’s arrow+energy sigil if u want.

And yes thief got the best endurance regen in this game =)

Of coarse Thief change weapons and magic trick give back full initiative ? Don’t be funny

Other classes rarely use endurance regen builds but many thieves uses it so they got to go….

It wouldn’t make since if other classes have more endurance regen then thief
-War is heavy armor and has better sustain and actual damage on dodge
-Guard heal on dodge
-Ranger gains protection
-Engineer maybe (no one tried)
-Mesmer would have too many illusions popping up(possible with endurance regen on heal+mantra)
-Ele has too many skills on dodge and too many boons(no one tried going endurance regen with arcane skills)
-I got nothing for necro

Necro has a mark on dodge yay!

Thief is a brain-dead assassin-style class that serves to hard-counter the dedicated healer. Without the dedicated healer, the thief just moves about the field and murders people who are looking in the other direction or just murders people in general because that’s what they are designed to do and there isn’t a player on any team that is designed to prevent this. It doesn’t belong, but anet put it into GW2 anyway because edgy teens enjoy playing the ninja/rogue class in MMOs.

It has never been so much a matter of “Thief is overpowered” as it has been “Thief has no reason to be in GW2 at all by virtue of basic class-centric (hard-counter) balance logic.” Since GW2 is balanced around hard-counters (not that that’s a good thing; it’s actually a very lazy and uninspired balance philosophy), it makes no sense to let thief just dangle out there as a hard-counter class despite the fact that the mechanic which the thief is meant to hard-counter doesn’t actually exist in GW2 in any real way.

With all this QQ I hope the thief is nerfed to the ground. Then I’ll get on my thief and kill these noobs. And when they complain for nerfs Anet can’t because there will be nothing left to nerf.

Since when was gw2 balanced around hard counters? Last time i checked, player skill is the deciding factor, not just design and builds. Taking skill out of the equation would be fair, if this game was based on commanding AI’s to run about, but it is not, so skkill matters, a lot

Swagg.9236:

Thief is a brain-dead assassin-style class that serves to hard-counter the dedicated healer. Without the dedicated healer, the thief just moves about the field and murders people who are looking in the other direction or just murders people in general because that’s what they are designed to do and there isn’t a player on any team that is designed to prevent this. It doesn’t belong, but anet put it into GW2 anyway because edgy teens enjoy playing the ninja/rogue class in MMOs.

It has never been so much a matter of “Thief is overpowered” as it has been “Thief has no reason to be in GW2 at all by virtue of basic class-centric (hard-counter) balance logic.” Since GW2 is balanced around hard-counters (not that that’s a good thing; it’s actually a very lazy and uninspired balance philosophy), it makes no sense to let thief just dangle out there as a hard-counter class despite the fact that the mechanic which the thief is meant to hard-counter doesn’t actually exist in GW2 in any real way.

The thief can counter spamming,zerging,ranged glass canon AKA mainly pew pew ranger,can counter AI AKA MM,turrets,spirit weapons,ranger pet…..,can counter sneaky or mobile glass canon AKA GS war,Fresh Air ele,zerker engi using smoke field for stealth….,stolen skills can be used based on situation to reflect,block/stability(plasma)…counter healers thief has a very good poison application and so….

Saying that there is no mechanic that thief is meant to counter is a very bold and false statement the same for GW2 being balanced around hard counters. In a more common way you could say thief counter players of lower experience especially if they start panicking.

Swagg.9236:

Thief is a brain-dead assassin-style class that serves to hard-counter the dedicated healer.

Excusing the general vapid undertone to this entire post, no it doesn’t. Thief exists to do, in general, three things: They provide the least amount of opportunity cost to pushing far point. They have the capability to create +1 advantages in small teamfights. And they serve to punish players who are out of position tunnel-visioning a teammate; to peel them away from your teammate. They are not a “brain dead assassin style class that ‘counters’ a healer.”

Swagg.9236:

Without the dedicated healer, the thief just moves about the field and murders people who are looking in the other direction or just murders people in general because that’s what they are designed to do and there isn’t a player on any team that is designed to prevent this.

This made me chuckle a bit because it reminded me of dota1 in the old days. People were absolutely furious that ganking existed in the game. If you ganked in dota1, you were the scum of the earth. After all, there is no dedicated healer in dota. At best, any healing in the game could be compared to the healing capabilities of guild wars 2 – as support healing used so you can endure a fight longer.

Swagg.9236:

It has never been so much a matter of “Thief is overpowered” as it has been “Thief has no reason to be in GW2 at all by virtue of basic class-centric (hard-counter) balance logic.”

Again Swagg, you create these opinions and try to apply them as a universal statement on game design.

Swagg.9236:

Since GW2 is balanced around hard-counters (not that that’s a good thing; it’s actually a very lazy and uninspired balance philosophy), it makes no sense to let thief just dangle out there as a hard-counter class despite the fact that the mechanic which the thief is meant to hard-counter doesn’t actually exist in GW2 in any real way.

Of course there are matchups that are harder than others. This exists in every game and it creates an environment that promotes teamwork – it is a good thing.

Sagat.3285:

B-but, thief does hard counter things! Look at all of these things that the thief can hard counter according to me!

Yes, and none of the things that you mentioned was a dedicated healer. Without that on the opposite end of the spectrum to balance out thief’s existence, the thief simply kills DPS classes (or classes that aren’t stocked with invulnerability mechanics) with minimal effort (not to say that anything in this game requires effort).

Sagat.3285:

GW2 isn’t balanced around hard counters.

Channeled blocks
Invulnerability/immunity skills and/or passive procs
Stun/Fear/Daze/Immobilize chaining
Projectile reflection
Stability

These things trivialize player choices. A player encounters one of these things and is forced into a very narrow set of responses (most of which end up being “pop my own invulnerability mechanics” or “run away or around in circles until his invulnerabilities wear off”). That is what is called a hard-counter. If you come back with the “Hey, I can strip stability or I can use an unblockable attack or I can just use melee versus the guy with a projectile reflection,” then congratulations, you have hard-countered the enemy’s hard-counter. Now his choice has been invalidated and the way that you geared your character before even pressing the “Join game” button has won you the day.

This isn’t skill or improvisation, this is extended Rock-Paper-Scissors with more colors and particle effects.