Guild Wars 2

Anet, please add a system to let people fill spots of missing people in tournaments. The way the current system is, it is game breaking for Spvp. Every other match I wind up in a 4v5 or 3v5 matchup.

There is also an interesting bug where it puts an opponent on your roster, but when you enter the matchup they are on the opposite team and you are forced to 4v5.

+1 this is such a huge issue atm that it makes me think there is something wrong with the matchmaking…..as in it is only finding 4 players and starting the match

Got four of these in a row last night, and then one of them turned into a 3on5 because someone quit when they saw it was 4on5.

Quite a joke that after six months they still don’t have a proper system that penalizes quitters and finds a replacement for your team. Pretty sure rift hot fixed a deserter debuff shortly after release.

I tried out the patch and had a 4v5 in my third match and just called it a night and won’t be back.

Also, is there any word on whether or not these 3v5/4v5 games affect our matchmaking rating? Because if they do the entire system is a flawed joke.

Evan Lesh.3295:

We think one problem is that people join into a roster, then before the match is ready, quit the game. Disconnecting does not remove you from the roster, so the game starts and finishes like nothing happened. A lot of these 4v5 games could be completely unintentional from the person leaving. Solving this is a technical issue. We could kick you out of the roster if you disconnect, but you should still be able to switch characters before the match starts.

Will this be for solo que’s only? What happens if you dc not by choice and try to reconnect to your premade team only to find out they got thrown into a match with some random.

There’s already a solution form Guild Wars 1. If you leave before or during the game too often, you will gain some limitations, such as joining the next game is not possible for a brief time. Constant leavers could be punished harder, normal players will not be affected. Balance of punishment is a question which must be solved by the progammer.

so then the timer should not start, until all ppl are into the game.
this would solve the problem without any negative benefits.

and the ppl who left, have 2 minutes time to login again otherwise they will be replaced by random.

in case of this, you could reduce the start timer by 1 minute or so…

Evan Lesh.3295:

We think one problem is that people join into a roster, then before the match is ready, quit the game. Disconnecting does not remove you from the roster, so the game starts and finishes like nothing happened. A lot of these 4v5 games could be completely unintentional from the person leaving. Solving this is a technical issue. We could kick you out of the roster if you disconnect, but you should still be able to switch characters before the match starts.

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

It hardly makes a difference if someone leaves when the match is already 5v4. If my team only has four people and we have no chance of winning then I’ll die and not respawn. The real problem seems to be people logging off before the tournament starts, they probably think they’ll be taken off the roster when they log out.

The roster UI isn’t well designed for newcomers, it’s practically hidden in the background.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

It’s not about doging the queue, which is fine, it’s about people who leaves games as they have started which in pretty much any mmo got a penalty for leaving the game. This is something they also had on release. GW2 is atm doing the exact same mistake SWTOR did, not giving us the basic things we want and delay it for more than a half year and when it’s finally there all the people left the game and those who stay are ok with changes. PvE parts may be ready, but I don’t feel like the years of work into GW2 was well thought around pvp seeing it only had hotjoin and a glory/gear system at release + free tournament and a half year later, we aren’t any further.

I had a break for a few months and honestly can’t say there is any of the new "esport features here left, only changed things that were several times. Thought unlike Bioware, your a much better company that talks alot with the community, it just takes to long and I still don’t get how there could be no duel/trade system at launch and still isn’t. If you do read this, don’t take offense, you got the right ideas, but this is going to slow and as a hardcore gamer, don’t like to be kept waiting. If Arena Net dealt with spvp quicker, we would have a much bigger playerbase than there is now sadly.
Solo/duo queue, read the poll thread, the pvpers have spoken, we want it, we need it now, not in another 6 months.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

why is it so difficult yet every other game has a deserter penalty? If you log off once you have been put into a match you have 1-2 min to log back in, if not game fills spot with another solo queuer and the person that didn’t log back in quick enough gets a 30-minute quitter debuff and can’t join any pvp until it’s up. Rift does this, WoW does this, Warhammer did it, etc.

I don’t even bother playing this game anymore because as a solo queuer more of my matches are 5v4 than 5v5.

or…

if the game is 4v5 the team with 5 must volunteer a player to sit out and if none is chosen one is picked from random?

Darki.9204:

It’s not about doging the queue, which is fine, it’s about people who leaves games as they have started which in pretty much any mmo got a penalty for leaving the game

I wouldn’t say that. I’ve had a HUGE problem with people just not joining the games. And as suggested above, taking the Dota 2 approach is EXACTLY what needs to happen. You can’t control dodging the queue/logging off while in queue, and you shouldn’t have to. If a game is going to start lopsided, it shouldn’t start at all.

Accepting a game should work just like dota 2. When the match is ready, there shouldn’t be a ‘join match’ button, it should be ‘accept’. You don’t actually ‘start’ the game and load into the map until all players accept, otherwise you get put back in the pool. This way you only start games when all 10 players are present, and you don’t have to go through the hassle of loading into a game that isn’t going to happen.

Sorrin.8209:

Darki.9204:

It’s not about doging the queue, which is fine, it’s about people who leaves games as they have started which in pretty much any mmo got a penalty for leaving the game

I wouldn’t say that. I’ve had a HUGE problem with people just not joining the games. And as suggested above, taking the Dota 2 approach is EXACTLY what needs to happen. You can’t control dodging the queue/logging off while in queue, and you shouldn’t have to. If a game is going to start lopsided, it shouldn’t start at all.

Accepting a game should work just like dota 2. When the match is ready, there shouldn’t be a ‘join match’ button, it should be ‘accept’. You don’t actually ‘start’ the game and load into the map until all players accept, otherwise you get put back in the pool. This way you only start games when all 10 players are present, and you don’t have to go through the hassle of loading into a game that isn’t going to happen.

Yes I agree, get a accept button, however my problem is with people leaving when the game started that causes problem for the team and dont get any penalty for doing so.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

why is it so difficult yet every other game has a deserter penalty? If you log off once you have been put into a match you have 1-2 min to log back in, if not game fills spot with another solo queuer and the person that didn’t log back in quick enough gets a 30-minute quitter debuff and can’t join any pvp until it’s up. Rift does this, WoW does this, Warhammer did it, etc.

I don’t even bother playing this game anymore because as a solo queuer more of my matches are 5v4 than 5v5.

This is a very real problem, but we can only work on so many things at once. I would still place it at a lower priority than Custom Arenas.

I don’t agree with you on that. Custom Arenas, or any other new implements are things we all want who enjoy tPvP, but fixing issues that occurs often in matches is by far more important.
It’s not that we want to punish other players, but rather that we want the gameplay to be as fair as possible.

If someone logs out whilst solo queuing for a tournament before the count down is up then someone else should take their roster spot.

This will solve 99% of the 4 vs 5 problems.

But I dont believe this is the sole problem. The number of 4 vs 5 matches on very very short queues is remarkable. I think you need to look into you system. There could be some coding errors which are causing 4 man teams to be produced. There was never this many 4 vs 5 games even with the old 8 man queues with epically long queues.

Either way, I dont like the idea of punishing deserters. But I do like the idea kicking people from the roster whenever they log out and are in a queue. This seems like it should logically happen. But please only do this when that person solo queued because otherwise you will ruins so many premade vs premade matches.

Lordrosicky.5813:

If someone logs out whilst solo queuing for a tournament before the count down is up then someone else should take their roster spot.

This will solve 99% of the 4 vs 5 problems.

But I dont believe this is the sole problem. The number of 4 vs 5 matches on very very short queues is remarkable. I think you need to look into you system. There could be some coding errors which are causing 4 man teams to be produced. There was never this many 4 vs 5 games even with the old 8 man queues with epically long queues.

Either way, I dont like the idea of punishing deserters. But I do like the idea kicking people from the roster whenever they log out and are in a queue. This seems like it should logically happen. But please only do this when that person solo queued because otherwise you will ruins so many premade vs premade matches.

Well if you look at the bigger picture, custom arenas are going to solve ALOT of problems, such as the whole “i don’t want to play the map that’s being used for todays tournaments”, we also could scrap hotjoin once customs are in place; pushing more people into the tournament game queue, and it also helps people trying to create media content for the game by giving them at least one of the tools that they may need to create guide videos, host scrims or what have you, the 2nd being spectator mode (to later host tournaments/shoutcast scrims -something a few organizations I’ve spoken recently with plan on doing).
While I agree that solo queue is a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE part of why spvp fell off the deep end; we must approach the situation from a marketing perspective as well; right now there is virtually no media content being produced that promotes the competitive or even casual PvP scene in this game, we’ll need that media to grab peoples attention and get the to logg back into the game.

tldr; custom arenas = essential tool for pvp youtubers, gw2 media content creation = more people seeing game play = more people coming back to the game (which is the real “highest” priority for everyone right now).

Zodian.6597:

Lordrosicky.5813:

If someone logs out whilst solo queuing for a tournament before the count down is up then someone else should take their roster spot.

This will solve 99% of the 4 vs 5 problems.

But I dont believe this is the sole problem. The number of 4 vs 5 matches on very very short queues is remarkable. I think you need to look into you system. There could be some coding errors which are causing 4 man teams to be produced. There was never this many 4 vs 5 games even with the old 8 man queues with epically long queues.

Either way, I dont like the idea of punishing deserters. But I do like the idea kicking people from the roster whenever they log out and are in a queue. This seems like it should logically happen. But please only do this when that person solo queued because otherwise you will ruins so many premade vs premade matches.

Well if you look at the bigger picture, custom arenas are going to solve ALOT of problems, such as the whole “i don’t want to play the map that’s being used for todays tournaments”, we also could scrap hotjoin once customs are in place; pushing more people into the tournament game queue, and it also helps people trying to create media content for the game by giving them at least one of the tools that they may need to create guide videos, host scrims or what have you, the 2nd being spectator mode (to later host tournaments/shoutcast scrims -something a few organizations I’ve spoken recently with plan on doing).
While I agree that solo queue is a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE part of why spvp fell off the deep end; we must approach the situation from a marketing perspective as well; right now there is virtually no media content being produced that promotes the competitive or even casual PvP scene in this game, we’ll need that media to grab peoples attention and get the to logg back into the game.

tldr; custom arenas = essential tool for pvp youtubers, gw2 media content creation = more people seeing game play = more people coming back to the game (which is the real “highest” priority for everyone right now).

Good post and I agree. Of all the features there I am personally most excited about custom arenas. Just because of the change it will make to how I play the game. Its going to be fun setting up GvG or just intraguild fighting in arenas. I agree it solves a ton of problems.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a very real problem, but we can only work on so many things at once. I would still place it at a lower priority than Custom Arenas.

Personally, I would have to say, the small population who do Spvp tournaments probably more interested in preventing totally unfair matches (3v5, 4v5) than custom arenas at this point in time.

While custom arenas are needed, this current problem is game breaking for spvp.

The recent patch has increased the number of people trying out Spvp with the new solo queue button, however everyone I talk to who solo queues says they hate Spvp due to the unbalanced teams. So while the patch was successful in bringing people to Spvp, it was also successful in driving them away as quickly as they came.

In addition there is a bug where a team member on team red is also on the roster for team blue, if he soloqueued.
—-How do I know this? Whenever someone doesn’t show up to a spvp torny match I look up their account name on the roster, and match it with the members in my team. On two specific occasions a team member on my roster was put on the other team.

firebreathz.7692:

or…

if the game is 4v5 the team with 5 must volunteer a player to sit out and if none is chosen one is picked from random?

this can be abused,if my entire party is duelling tag team experts but can’t beat a good premade group dynamic,we start logging off one by one and see who u pick off from ur team and adjust accordingly until we have 2vs2 or 1vs1. Some good premades perform better in teams rather than 1 vs 1 situation. Not everyone use dueling capable builds in team play.

Evan Lesh.3295:

We think one problem is that people join into a roster, then before the match is ready, quit the game. Disconnecting does not remove you from the roster, so the game starts and finishes like nothing happened. A lot of these 4v5 games could be completely unintentional from the person leaving. Solving this is a technical issue. We could kick you out of the roster if you disconnect, but you should still be able to switch characters before the match starts.

I had heard of one of my buddies that someone even left due to facing a specific premade.
There still has to be some punishment for leaving on purpose.

Edit: Even though I can understand that it may not be fun to get “stomped”. That is an issue of the MMR though.

I wonder if you could somehow restrict one of the players on the 5 man team so that it would be 4v4. Then when someone dies the guy who was waiting would get to go in?

I think the problem starts when u change your party. Yesterday is was in a party with somebody and joined queu. Then i noticed somebody was looking for a party in chat so i invited him. As soon as he joined our party, we automaticly “leave” queu. So i join queu again. A few seconds later i got a whisper from somebody who said i was in their team but didnt connect and that they were 3v5 (The other one who was in my team didn’t join either)

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

why is it so difficult yet every other game has a deserter penalty? If you log off once you have been put into a match you have 1-2 min to log back in, if not game fills spot with another solo queuer and the person that didn’t log back in quick enough gets a 30-minute quitter debuff and can’t join any pvp until it’s up. Rift does this, WoW does this, Warhammer did it, etc.

I don’t even bother playing this game anymore because as a solo queuer more of my matches are 5v4 than 5v5.

This is a very real problem, but we can only work on so many things at once. I would still place it at a lower priority than Custom Arenas.

Preventing uneven teams should definitely be a higher priority than Custom Arenas; I’m not sure how this can be viewed otherwise in a PvP environment which includes a ranking system.

People already have the opportunity to duel in low-pop spvp servers. At this point, many people have come to understand that servers with only 2-6 people in them are dueling servers. When I’m on a dueling server I rarely get interrupted by people who want to play conquest, and if we are we just say it’s a dueling server and people join in on the dueling or leave. Custom Arenas are appreciated, but can wait.

On the other hand, I don’t see how you can have “ranking system” and still allow 3v5 and 4v5 in tournament play. I’m sure the developers realize that having uneven teams will end up skewing the accuracy of each individual’s rank. Seeing as how frequently this happens in Tpvp, the fact that the developers don’t see fixing uneven teams it as a high priority issue makes me think that the developers don’t view the accuracy of their ranking system to be that important, leading me to think that the current “invisible” ranking system is still just fluff.

To be honest, you guys shouldn’t have even implemented the “ranking system” until the problem of uneven teams was solved. Uneven teams just completely cancels out the accuracy of your ranking system.

DDog.4350:

I think the problem starts when u change your party. Yesterday is was in a party with somebody and joined queu. Then i noticed somebody was looking for a party in chat so i invited him. As soon as he joined our party, we automaticly “leave” queu. So i join queu again. A few seconds later i got a whisper from somebody who said i was in their team but didnt connect and that they were 3v5 (The other one who was in my team didn’t join either)

This^

i had a similar experience we had a party of 4 and entered roster so we would get 1 random.. match started fine with 5v5.. but for some unknown reason mid game we all got mists loading screen and then ported back to the map which had now reset..

but this time the random was not with us and we had to 4v5..

admittedly this account doesn’t provide much as it was special circumstances but it does seem to relate to premades with solo joiners

it is definitely not people just logging off, ques are so fast to pop when it happens

it’s a coding bug with the new way matchmaking works to 1 random to a 4 man team or 2 to 3 ect

please look into this and do not dismiss this as people logging off

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

This is a very real problem, but we can only work on so many things at once. I would still place it at a lower priority than Custom Arenas.

why would you make a game breaking bug less priority than new content?

tell me when your going to add custom arenas? next month? so we have to wait a month with 4v5’s ruining the pvp experience for everyone?

Dredlockrasta.8269:

In addition there is a bug where a team member on team red is also on the roster for team blue, if he soloqueued.
—-How do I know this? Whenever someone doesn’t show up to a spvp torny match I look up their account name on the roster, and match it with the members in my team. On two specific occasions a team member on my roster was put on the other team.

I claim that this bug is the major cause for the immense quantity of 4v5 games since the recent patch, and not people leaving the queue/roster before or during the match.

I really wonder why Evan has not commented on this point – which has also been brought up in other threads – but rather thinks about implementing new DotA2-like systems (which would be very nice to have, but their lack is not as gamebreaking as the current bug that caused me to completely stop PvPing).

Evan Lesh.3295:

We think one problem is that people join into a roster, then before the match is ready, quit the game. Disconnecting does not remove you from the roster, so the game starts and finishes like nothing happened. A lot of these 4v5 games could be completely unintentional from the person leaving. Solving this is a technical issue. We could kick you out of the roster if you disconnect, but you should still be able to switch characters before the match starts.

You could take a hint from how DotA 2 does it. When the game finds the “tournament”, all selected members are asked by a popup to say they are ready with a very short timer to answer, like 10s. If someone is missing, everyone needs to restart the search which goes very fast from that point since it only needs to find replacements for the ones that went afk.

Horrible to hear, thought about putting leveling for WvWvW aside and building a sPVP char, but that issue would make it pretty futile……… Even worse to hear that the Dev’s don’t seem to think that something like this is a high prio fix……….. But yeah fix can’t be advertised as Custom Arenas would

Evan Lesh.3295:

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

Yes, they should be punished. The other option is to punish the rest of the team, which is what’s happening now. “log off to do something else” is fine – if it doesn’t hurt anyone. The deserter penalty system is well-proven and working fine in a lot of other games, GW2 doesn’t have to do everything different just for the sake of being different/better/nicer than the others.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a very real problem, but we can only work on so many things at once. I would still place it at a lower priority than Custom Arenas.

seriously ?
please… you will not have enough people playing spvp until the custom arenas will come.
Arenanet.. you will loose many sPvPers, if you start doing other things, instead of improve the meta / queues and putting in a ladder.
I’ve heard so much QQ after the patch. Even from guys, who were defending you all the time (i’m very sceptical and discussing to other ppl, with arguments against arenanets spvp). And now the ones, who was defending you, arent doing it anymore.

We PvP guys are REALLY kitten off.
And its not only the status about randoms fighting premades.

Guys wake up !

I agree with the ready-check idea. If the point is to let people switch characters or do other last-minute stuff, a pop-up that says something like “Wait a sec!” that delays the match could help. Maybe even an option that says “Switch Characters” if that’s an issue. Depending on how its implemented, this could be abused, but at least then you (the developers) will be getting confirmation from the players. So if someone keeps hitting the “delay” buttons, you have proof they are abusing it, rather than a player claiming they were dc’d or whatever. Substantial abuse over a relatively long period of time could result in temporary banning from sPvP, and/or increased wait times. And of course, if you leave the match after all of these ready-checks and such, not returning within reasonable disconnect timer grace, there should be a much greater penalty.

We could extend this “ready check” system to be more democratic, again with the match waiting until all players say they’re “Ready”, but this time with a much longer timeout. Instead, players can vote-kick other players who have not joined in X seconds (say, 30 seconds), needing at least X players from either side voting, as the match will not start for anyone until there are full teams on both sides.. As well, while waiting in setup, anyone can initiate a check asking “How long until ready?” which will have options “30 seconds” “1 minute” “2 minutes” “More than 2 minutes”, afterwhich players can choose to be nice and wait, or vote-kick that player if they select “More than 2 minutes” and everyone’s super-anxious to get started.

Worst-case scenario, this all delays matches starting by a few minutes with ready-checks and waiting for full teams, which I think everyone would agree is better than the alternative.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

you think? of course that is one of the problems, the other is people joining and seeing they are on a full pug and facing a full premade and quitting, or seeing they are on a 5v4 and quitting, making it 5v3. And since you don’t punish them what do they lose? the invisible rating they don’t care about? They log-off for 10 mins avoid a spawn camp stomping then log back in.

Learn from Rift, if you get DC’d their system gives you short amount of time to re-boot/log back in and puts you in the same warfront you were in. If you don’t log back in quickly it fills the spot with a new player and when that person eventually does log back in they have a 30-min deserter debuff and can’t queue for pvp. I’m guessing just another thing your system isn’t built to do.

If someone is constantly DC’ing due to crappy ISP or quitting without leaving their roster they should be punished and stick to hotjoin rather than making 4 people suffer a curb stomping 5v4 matchup.

The sad thing is this has been an issue basically since release and doesn’t sound like you have any fixes in the works. Like i said in another thread this is something Rift did a hotfix for shortly after release. And I only use Rift as an example because it was one of the more recently released mmos. pretty much every other mmo pvp also has quitter debuffs/penalties.

The two problems deserve different solutions. If a player is in queue for a bit, but needs to log off to do something else, that player shouldn’t be punished because they didn’t leave the roster first. This is a completely fixable problem. Punishing people who knowingly dodge is a much more difficult problem.

But if the player leaves the team to fight a 4v5 regardless of whether their reasons are noble or not, they just put 4 other people in a bad situation. And really, in GW1 you had a strike out 3 times and you’re out type of solution, why can’t that be applied to GW2?

Hello guys I joined 5 matches this morning and i allways had people not joining the game so it was 4v5 or 3v5 all the games. I think that people not joining the game in liek 2-3 minutes should get a penality. There is jsut too many people that queue for a tourney and then jsut dont log in the game. Its is frustrating as i wasted over 30 minutes of gameplay

linking like a baws

If you want to play like a soccer match (and even if its only a fun macht with friends)…
…but have to take your mobile every 1 minute…
…you cant blame the rest of the players for losing
…and “banning” you from the match.

Just sayin, if there is “something” keeping you to focus a few minutes on a pvp match,
you either have to live getting punished for leaving (even if its unintentional)…
… or not queue at all.

After all, the missing player is “sabotageing” the rankings of fellow team members by leaving/afking.

Evan Lesh.3295:

First, we need to solve the problem of people leaving before the game begins, its simply a flaw in our roster design. Then we need to determine a suitable punishment for people who leave during a match, and do not return.

On top of these, it sounds like some people are describing a bug forcing 4v5’s. We do not know what would be causing this or whether it is a new problem or not. It’s hard to tell when there are multiple ways a team could be missing members.

To clarify, bugs take higher priority over features like custom arenas. However a punishment system is a feature that takes considerable more time, and must be weighed against our current features plans. We always have the option to re-prioritize just like we did with matchmaking.

the issue is punishment system should have been in game AT RELEASE.

“when it’s ready”
“when it’s ready”
“when it’s ready”

kitten aint ready. you are basically saying tough kitten to solo queuers who are fed up with 5v4 and 5v3 matches.

Well at least somebody who posts on this topic is getting a Dev response since there have been plenty of posts about this so far without any response.

TO ANET: Did you consider that the pattern between accidental leaver and intentional leaver may not be that different? and if you try to distinguish these two groups you will be opening your system up to exploits. By that I mean people will leave in a manner that fools your system into thinking it was accidental.

The community really doesn’t care anymore, if it’s an accident that sucks but it’s not the responsibility of the other 4 players. It’s the responsibility of everybody to ensure their system is stable enough for team PvP and if it’s not, play at your own risk.

If you still think that’s unfair fine, but the community has been crying for this since the beginning of tournaments and we would all be satisfied with a simple deserter system. Give us that, and fine tune it later to distinguish between accidental and intentional leaving.

reading areanent’s replies here is disheartening.. its like they walk one step foward and two steps backwards

What about AFK people? People just get tired of waiting and go afk. Problem is when they get disced due to inactivity, they’re still technically online, so they won’t get kicked.
Fix it!

Evan Lesh.3295:

aaron.7850:

reading areanent’s replies here is disheartening.. its like they walk one step foward and two steps backwards

It just makes our next step that much bigger :P. Honestly, its great to really get to the exact root of problems in a constructive way so we don’t implement features that only half solve the issue.

Half is better than nothing, it’s a step. How does this keep getting swept under the rug even after you’ve introduced MMR? this is a game breaking issue now that it is sabotaging the integrity of your MMR system.

Have you considered ‘starting’ the game one player at time?

In essence:

Team 1 has 2 players, so Team 2 is only allowed 2 players in.

If Team 1 for whatever reason can only muster in 4 players, then Team 2 is limited to 4 players. Simply provide the Team 2 captain with a form that they can select which player is ‘sitting out’.

This way both teams start even. If Team 1’s last guy eventually shows up, Team 2’s guy is given the option to join the game as well (or theres a time limit etc.).

This may not be the most elegant way to start a game where you want to keep everyone always 5v5. But if the option to quit the game or the roster etc. is causing problems maybe this is a good bandaid solution until deserter effects can be added to the game to stop people from leaving.

Defektive.7283:

Have you considered ‘starting’ the game one player at time?

In essence:

Team 1 has 2 players, so Team 2 is only allowed 2 players in.

If Team 1 for whatever reason can only muster in 4 players, then Team 2 is limited to 4 players. Simply provide the Team 2 captain with a form that they can select which player is ‘sitting out’.

This way both teams start even. If Team 1’s last guy eventually shows up, Team 2’s guy is given the option to join the game as well (or theres a time limit etc.).

This may not be the most elegant way to start a game where you want to keep everyone always 5v5. But if the option to quit the game or the roster etc. is causing problems maybe this is a good bandaid solution until deserter effects can be added to the game to stop people from leaving.

Might be a solution but I could see some people purposely forcing a 4v4 in attempts to throw off the other team by preventing them from running their comp.

Edit::
It seems the solutions to fix solo que require separation from premades. Not only for fairness but the fact that dc issues will probably have to be dealt with differently depending on if the group is a premade or solo ques.

Nikkle.4013:

Defektive.7283:

Have you considered ‘starting’ the game one player at time?

In essence:

Team 1 has 2 players, so Team 2 is only allowed 2 players in.

If Team 1 for whatever reason can only muster in 4 players, then Team 2 is limited to 4 players. Simply provide the Team 2 captain with a form that they can select which player is ‘sitting out’.

This way both teams start even. If Team 1’s last guy eventually shows up, Team 2’s guy is given the option to join the game as well (or theres a time limit etc.).

This may not be the most elegant way to start a game where you want to keep everyone always 5v5. But if the option to quit the game or the roster etc. is causing problems maybe this is a good bandaid solution until deserter effects can be added to the game to stop people from leaving.

Might be a solution but I could see some people purposely forcing a 4v4 in attempts to throw off the other team by preventing them from running their comp.

Edit::
It seems the solutions to fix solo que require separation from premades. Not only for fairness but the fact that dc issues will probably have to be dealt with differently depending on if the group is a premade or solo ques.

We could make it into a codex having people afk to ensure a fair match with e.g. 4vs4 instead of 5vs4. Talking about Pre-mades.