Guild Wars 2

Sigil of Revelation
Reveal nearby foes when swapping to this weapon while in combat (240 Radius).
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

You realize this is going to totally counter utilities like shadow refuge that are already never used, and the ability to do this is being given any build, any class that takes this sigil?

This kind of sigil promotes counterbuilding / Build wars, people will start switching to this sigil to counter anyone with stealth, while it would be like fighting without a sigil if the people youre fighting have no stealth.

If Arenanet is going to release this sigil, I suggest making it reveal enemies for X seconds, and then once the X seconds of reveal is off, the person who was revealed (assuming his original stealth application was longer than X) will regain stealth until it runs out normally.

This would make it so that a group can’t stealth stack 15s of stealth with a coordinated chain of combos, only to be revealed instantly by one guy doing a swap and lose all the stealth for good. He’s not dropping any traits in order to run this, he’s not dropping a utility. And yet this reveal has a lower CD (9 seconds) than all the utilities in the game that reveal.

Make it reveal for something like 2 seconds, but make it so that people will go back into stealth once the reveal time is over.

P.S. Inb4 the forum warriors come in and say “Ghost thieves”, please realize that that’s far from a relevant spec higher than maybe gold tier. In PvP at least, this sigil in its current form is just ridiculous.

This won’t even effect Thief gameplay at all. All it does is counter Engi’s Stealth Gyro + Res and Druid’s stealth.

Thieves (and Mesmers) will still have no issue going anywhere because they are still way more mobile than any other class while still being very sustainable because of it.

Plus the reveal isn’t even as long as you think it is:

For Sigil of Revelation, the purpose would be to pull people out of stealth, but not prevent it. Something like a 1/4 second reveal would accomplish that.

MLGKorno.5419:

Sigil of Revelation
Reveal nearby foes when swapping to this weapon while in combat (240 Radius).
(Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

You realize this is going to totally counter utilities like shadow refuge that are already never used, and the ability to do this is being given any build, any class that takes this sigil?

This kind of sigil promotes counterbuilding / Build wars, people will start switching to this sigil to counter anyone with stealth, while it would be like fighting without a sigil if the people youre fighting have no stealth.

If Arenanet is going to release this sigil, I suggest making it reveal enemies for X seconds, and then once the X seconds of reveal is off, the person who was revealed (assuming his original stealth application was longer than X) will regain stealth until it runs out normally.

This would make it so that a group can’t stealth stack 15s of stealth with a coordinated chain of combos, only to be revealed instantly by one guy doing a swap and lose all the stealth for good.

P.S. Inb4 the forum warriors come in and say “Ghost thieves”, please realize that that’s far from a relevant spec higher than maybe gold tier. In PvP at least, this sigil in its current form is just ridiculous.

I can’t see any CnD thieves being effective at all with this sigil. Off hand dagger is already lacking. If there only a few of these in PvP you will see fewer yet.

This…is a really good suggestion, honestly. Could be interesting. +1

Also lmao CnD thieves. Please, no. No perma-stealth. Thanks.

The design is to knock people out of stealth not to counter stealth. It will effect classes with little stealth access the most but those with high stealth access very little.

LUST.7241:

This won’t even effect Thief gameplay at all. All it does is counter Engi’s Stealth Gyro + Res and Druid’s stealth.

Thieves (and Mesmers) will still have no issue going anywhere because they are still way more mobile than any other class while still being very sustainable because of it.

Plus the reveal isn’t even as long as you think it is:

For Sigil of Revelation, the purpose would be to pull people out of stealth, but not prevent it. Something like a 1/4 second reveal would accomplish that.

You don’t read my post. It doesn’t matter if the reveal right now is only 0.00001 seconds, because having revealed applied to you currently removes all your stealth.

If i have 50 seconds of stealth stacked (You cant actually stack that much but I’m giving an example) and I get hit by a 0.01 second reveal, I don’t pop back into my stealth with 49 seconds left when that reveal is over.

So this sigil being able to do that in a 240 radius ON SWAP is ridiculous. Do you think it’s fair that 5 people can blast a smoke field and stack 15 seconds of stealth, and some random guy does a swap and everyone loses all the stealth?
Note that this guy doesn’t sacrifice much to take this sigil because so many sigil choices have been deleted anyway. He’s not dropping any traits in order to run this, he’s not dropping a utility.
And yet this reveal has a lower CD (9 seconds) than all the utilities in the game that reveal.

Make it reveal for 2 seconds, but make it so that people will go back into stealth once the reveal time is over.

This sigil is a low effort counter to stealth and I agree, having an add on ability (from gears) that negates a class utility is bad game design in my opinion. Usually in order to stealth you need to use up your resources, ei. Initiative, CDs and Endurance. With this sigil all you have to do is weapon swap at melee range which doesn’t use up any cooldowns on any given class. I can also see this being abusable, being able to stack the reveal debuff with certain classes like Revenant’s Gaze of Darkness + Sigil of Revelation which basically takes away one of thief’s major defence for a longer period of time.
This sigil doesn’t have any valid reason to be implemented in pvp, we actually get punished for stealthing since we cant cap points or channel objectives.

Now those who argue “Thieves can perma stealth and reset any fight” Thats true, but please don’t forget we only have on average of 12-17k HP with no toughness or healing power built into our meta builds.

its their way to say stealth is balanced across the game so take this potato and stop complain about something we belive it is fine or we cant touch it because we dont want to spend time or reources fixing thief+stealth.

Anet @placebo fixing is top…

MLGKorno.5419:

LUST.7241:

This won’t even effect Thief gameplay at all. All it does is counter Engi’s Stealth Gyro + Res and Druid’s stealth.

Thieves (and Mesmers) will still have no issue going anywhere because they are still way more mobile than any other class while still being very sustainable because of it.

Plus the reveal isn’t even as long as you think it is:

For Sigil of Revelation, the purpose would be to pull people out of stealth, but not prevent it. Something like a 1/4 second reveal would accomplish that.

You don’t read my post. It doesn’t matter if the reveal right now is only 0.00001 seconds, because having revealed applied to you currently removes all your stealth.

If i have 50 seconds of stealth stacked (You cant actually stack that much but I’m giving an example) and I get hit by a 0.01 second reveal, I don’t pop back into my stealth with 49 seconds left when that reveal is over.

So this sigil being able to do that in a 240 radius ON SWAP is ridiculous. Do you think it’s fair that 5 people can blast a smoke field and stack 15 seconds of stealth, and some random guy does a swap and everyone loses all the stealth?
Note that this guy doesn’t sacrifice much to take this sigil because so many sigil choices have been deleted anyway. He’s not dropping any traits in order to run this, he’s not dropping a utility.
And yet this reveal has a lower CD (9 seconds) than all the utilities in the game that reveal.

Make it reveal for 2 seconds, but make it so that people will go back into stealth once the reveal time is over.

I see what you are saying…but this Sigil is basically a smaller radius Detection Pulse (Engi skill). Revealing isn’t a new thing…it’s been here for a while given how frequently professions (not only thieves) can stealth now, this allows other professions that don’t have reveal to counter stealth escapes (not so much stealth engages).

I think its funny how ghost thief got a buff and then this sigil comes along… even though its not really a thing in pvp it still seems like too big of a coincidence.

A niche sigil like this one shouldn’t even be introduced to the game, and no I’m not a thief main.

If Arena net feels like stealth is such an issue then maybe you should just tone down stealth duration potential and compensate the thief class in other areas. Introducing a sigil that doesn’t have a use vs every class is dumb.

I want sigil of passives – disables all passives on enemy for 10 sec. Sounds just as fair.

LUST.7241:

This won’t even effect Thief gameplay at all. All it does is counter Engi’s Stealth Gyro + Res and Druid’s stealth.

Thieves (and Mesmers) will still have no issue going anywhere because they are still way more mobile than any other class while still being very sustainable because of it.

Plus the reveal isn’t even as long as you think it is:

For Sigil of Revelation, the purpose would be to pull people out of stealth, but not prevent it. Something like a 1/4 second reveal would accomplish that.

Such sigil would heavily affect core specs, not just HoT specs, yeaaaahhh let’s make HoT specs even more mandatory, shall we? Considering Anet also nerfed dodges last patch, adding such sigil would be cherry on top of the cake.

I really wish anet would give thieves special spell that would completely disable other classes survival for 6 sec just so they can get the taste of “ah this won’t have much effect”.

This would be a perfectly fine effect if it were introduced alongside other very strong, strategy or tactic-specific sigils. It’s a perfectly reasonable design when there are important opportunity costs that you are giving up to get it (in the same way that traits or utility skills have really valuable opportunity costs when you select them).

Introducing it alongside a massive sigil nerf, on the other hand, is almost certainly poor design – without real opportunity costs, powerful, targeted counters just make the game a lot more random.

+1, basically OP summarized my thoughts.

How can you tactically trait for stealth when this sort of sigil is available?? Do people just “guess” someone has this and therefore its going to nullify a large part of the build they use….It really just adds to the large amount of passive non skilled crap this game is using at the moment. Which by the way ANET is something people do want to be fixed, not sigils!
Your core elite specialisations need looking at, not sigils….please do so! I would also add perhaps harshly that whoever thinks of these changes needs to go back to the drawing board on their ideas of what is going to help the state of the game. Im glad you are trying….but you are doing it in the wrong areas. Give the people some in game polls to help you out…we as the players know what is best for the game.

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Going a little overboard worrying about this sigil. I mean come on, the enemy has to be:

• in combat
• have a weapon swap ready
• be within 240 distance from you

The last point is key. Aside from the moment you move in for an attack, when the hell are you in stealth and just standing right next to the enemy? I know I’m not, cause I don’t feel like getting hit by random cleave damage.

If anyone, this sigil is going to hurt Scrappers the most, so I have no idea why Thieves are complaining. Ya see, with such a short radius, this sigil will be primarily effective against stealth revives and Sneak Gyro. As a Druid, I can stay in Celestial Avatar until right before the stomp lands while ressing my teammate. This allows me to interrupt the stomp, continue reviving, and minimize the chance for an enemy to stop me with the sigil.

Scrappers however, can not do this due to Sneak Gyro not being instant cast. Sneak Gyro also, while stealthing the Scrapper, gives away the Scrapper’s relative position and gIves enemies a target to hit to enter combat. This makes it much easier to the Scrapper using Sneak Gyro with the sigil.

So unless you are a Scrapper, I’m really not sure what all the fuss is about.

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

@Shaogin.2679: because hot specs made spells like RF and core thief specs already extremely undesirable thanks to reveals. Additional reveal on demand on short CD on top of it is overkill. Anet keeps adding hardcounters to entire class mechanic but only for one class (thieves in this case) and somehow doesn’t do it for other classes. I personally would love if thieves had ability to make whole team see traps and disable traps/gyros. Fits right into same category as reveals on demand.

People are overreacting.

Reveal for 0,25 seconds in a 240 radius is lousy. Try ingame what 240 means!

If it was 360 to 480 radius and 4 seconds of reveal I could understand the complaints.

My proc-reaper with air (removed) and hydromancy (no more damage) sigills will suffer much more from ANets suggestions than any ghost thief – and I am not crying!

Seriously!

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Cynz.9437:

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

I’m pretty shure that Infiltrator’s Arrow can do the job.

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

A very well designed sigil! You should post it here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/5#post6522437

Cynz.9437:

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

@Shaogin.2679: because hot specs made spells like RF and core thief specs already extremely undesirable thanks to reveals. Additional reveal on demand on short CD on top of it is overkill. Anet keeps adding hardcounters to entire class mechanic but only for one class (thieves in this case) and somehow doesn’t do it for other classes. I personally would love if thieves had ability to make whole team see traps and disable traps/gyros. Fits right into same category as reveals on demand.

This sigil won’t really mess with Thieves though. If anyone, the reveal sigil is going to hurt Sneak Gyro more than anything else in the game.

Maybe instead you should take this opportunity to ask that other reveal sources be nerfed since players will have access to reveal on the sigil.

Vitali.5039:

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Cynz.9437:

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

I’m pretty shure that Infiltrator’s Arrow can do the job.

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

A very well designed sigil! You should post it here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/5#post6522437

Yeah, IA also locks you in sb for 10 sec, which is one of the worst weapons as game as far as dps capability goes. By the time you can switch back to actual damage, the sigil on the enemy is up again.

That suggestion was sarcastic…. just to show how stupid implementation of hardcounters to entire class mechanic on short CDs is, especially on easy accessible item like sigils.

@Shaogin.2679: they won’t nerf neither revs nor engis in this department. The whole issue started with Anet giving stealth to classes that didn’t need them. To give some counter (and making core thieves undesirable while at it thus making elite spec DD mandatory and giving revs thiev’s spot at launch, once again to enforce sales) they added aoe reveals on demand on short CD with rather long duration. And they continue with same agenda. If Anet didn’t powercreep profs at HoT launch, there wouldn’t be need for such hardcounters. The powercreep really needs to stop, same goes for homogenization – they are ruining pvp but balancing team doesn’t want to hear it apparently.

Cynz.9437:

Vitali.5039:

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Cynz.9437:

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

I’m pretty shure that Infiltrator’s Arrow can do the job.

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

A very well designed sigil! You should post it here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/5#post6522437

Yeah, IA also locks you in sb for 10 sec, which is one of the worst weapons as game as far as dps capability goes. By the time you can switch back to actual damage, the sigil on the enemy is up again.

That suggestion was sarcastic…. just to show how stupid implementation of hardcounters to entire class mechanic on short CDs is, especially on easy accessible item like sigils.

In a 1vs1+x scenario you shouldn’t come back to fight, so don’t worry about 10 sec on SB.

In a 1vs1 scenario you can also see how the enemy react to your stealth and looking at the current enemy weapon to dodge the proc on the swap, or stealthing only after the swap. Thieves have a lot of dodge.

Grimreaper.5370:

A niche sigil like this one shouldn’t even be introduced to the game, and no I’m not a thief main.

If Arena net feels like stealth is such an issue then maybe you should just tone down stealth duration potential and compensate the thief class in other areas. Introducing a sigil that doesn’t have a use vs every class is dumb.

It works on over half.

Engineer, Thief, Ranger, Guardian and Mesmer all have access to stealth. Of those some is more readily available than others, but those professions DO have stealth access. How often will you do a match against a team consisting of only Warrior, Revenant, Elementalist and Necromancer? With one of those being duplicated.

So theoretically it can have use in 100% of every match you play.

Vitali.5039:

Cynz.9437:

Vitali.5039:

Vitali.5039:

Reveal in 240 radius!? If only thieves could shadowstep away before stealthing..

The on swap type sigils only work while in combat, and with the upcoming sigil balance most classes can’t burst down thieves so quickly before a “stealth reset” (no more free proc damage).
And thieves can stealth pretty well.

What could be the next suggestion?
“I have worked so hard to stack my boons and a necro corrupted my efforts, make boon corrupt a 2sec negation to the oterwise converted boons, to have back my 25 might” ?

Cynz.9437:

CD on sigil is by far lower than CD on shs…….

I’m pretty shure that Infiltrator’s Arrow can do the job.

You want next suggestion? I want a sigil that disables blocks, invuls, heals and immunities in small aoe on non-thieves on crit hit. Fits just fine with revealed sigil.

A very well designed sigil! You should post it here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Sigil-Proposals/page/5#post6522437

Yeah, IA also locks you in sb for 10 sec, which is one of the worst weapons as game as far as dps capability goes. By the time you can switch back to actual damage, the sigil on the enemy is up again.

That suggestion was sarcastic…. just to show how stupid implementation of hardcounters to entire class mechanic on short CDs is, especially on easy accessible item like sigils.

In a 1vs1+x scenario you shouldn’t come back to fight, so don’t worry about 10 sec on SB.

In a 1vs1 scenario you can also see how the enemy react to your stealth and looking at the current enemy weapon to dodge the proc on the swap, or stealthing only after the swap. Thieves have a lot of dodge.

What about 2v3 scenario? What about 2v2 scenario? hat about 3v3 scenario?

Yeah, thieves have a lot of dodges – it is an easy and lazy response to literary everything. Here is the problem with it:
1. Anet nerfed amount of dodges you can get on thief last patch because people been crying about thieves dodging (but then here you tell thieves to use dodges lel)

2. amount of crap you need to dodge due to thief lacking in defensive department is absurd, you basically have to dodge pretty much everything if you don’t want to get one shot but there are only so many dodges. This is also the reason why the d/d condi became so popular.

So here we have a comical case contradiction. People cred to nerf stealth, Anet made stealth (and continues to do so) undesirable. Thieves were forced into dodge specs due to lack of anything else. Now everyone cries about thieves dodging too much but then the moment thieves voice their issues with how heavy they get affected by spells from other classes, the only response they get is “just dodge”. What a joke.

Bottom line, all that this sigil will do is making core build even less viable. This is literary what you are asking for. This sigil is also just another example of heavy class discrimination. Where are spells/items that are directed at actual class mechanics/whole trait lines from other classes (e.g. disabling shatters, virtues etc.)?

As side note: IA won’t do much given how many gap closers and ranged anet gave to other classes.

at this point anet just better delete thief if they hate it so much.

This sigil does not really counter thieves at all. Just a kittenfest.

Shaogin.2679:

If anyone, the reveal sigil is going to hurt Sneak Gyro more than anything else in the game.

No it won’t. The sigil as per dev post will only cause 1/4th sec or so reveal. Sneak Gyro pulses stealth.

Using the sigil on a Sgyro will just reveal the engi for a second before he disappears again. The class that the sigil will have the most use against is druid.

But honestly the sigil isn’t really worth taking because it’s such a niche pick. Most overhyped thing ever.

Cynz.9437:

1. Anet nerfed amount of dodges you can get on thief last patch because people been crying about thieves dodging (but then here you tell thieves to use dodges lel)

Which is meaningless given certain thief builds still have evades/dodges in bucketloads (and beyond that as any good thief will tell you daredevil is faceroll regardless of this minor nerf, compared to pre-HoT thief).

People “crying” is not the issue, they are right, because the amount of evades/dodges some thief builds have is broken, zero skill crap, and an example of powercreep just like the amount of boon spam/duration, more passives, damage reduction, etc that have made every single class more faceroll since HoT released.

The ‘issue’ is Anet, instead of addressing the actual fundamental problems (which seems to be a recurring theme with Anet) with aspects of the design of various classes, the trait system, etc, they just buff/nerf stuff which fixes absolutely nothing and just causes numerous other problems.

zinkz.7045:

Cynz.9437:

1. Anet nerfed amount of dodges you can get on thief last patch because people been crying about thieves dodging (but then here you tell thieves to use dodges lel)

Which is meaningless given certain thief builds still have evades/dodges in bucketloads (and beyond that as any good thief will tell you daredevil is faceroll regardless of this minor nerf, compared to pre-HoT thief).

People “crying” is not the issue, they are right, because the amount of evades/dodges some thief builds have is broken, zero skill crap, and an example of powercreep just like the amount of boon spam/duration, more passives, damage reduction, etc that have made every single class more faceroll since HoT released.

The ‘issue’ is Anet, instead of addressing the actual fundamental problems (which seems to be a recurring theme with Anet) with aspects of the design of various classes, the trait system, etc, they just buff/nerf stuff which fixes absolutely nothing and just causes numerous other problems.

They did nerf amount of dodges you can get for the meta builds (including dp) and it was a hefty nerf to staff build as well which limited variety even more (not that i am staff fan, but that is different discussion).
Yes, DD is faceroll, so are every single other elite spec compared to core, nobody is arguing about it here but here is the joke, the implemented sigil would actually make core even worse than it is.
My point is, yes thief has too many dodges but on the other hand how the hell are you supposed to deal with things that other classes throw at you? Every time a thief player voices their concern, they get told “just dodge”. So for every spell there is only one solution (according to this very community and devs) which is dodge because thieves are not allowed to take a hit per design. This is contradiction that bothers me so much. “Just dodge everything” , “you can’t have many dodges” – coming from same community.
You don’t like dodges? So do we (thieves, i personally hate DD). Give us alternatives. But instead Anet continues to butcher the said alternatives (stealth in this case).

How to counter Sigil of revelation:

1) going out of range
2) reentering into stealth after the enemy weapon swap
3) make the proc fail by
3a) dodge – all classes have at least 2 dodge
3b) blind – Black Powder, wich is the most used skill for thieves stealth, blinds

Crinn.7864:

Shaogin.2679:

If anyone, the reveal sigil is going to hurt Sneak Gyro more than anything else in the game.

No it won’t. The sigil as per dev post will only cause 1/4th sec or so reveal. Sneak Gyro pulses stealth.

Using the sigil on a Sgyro will just reveal the engi for a second before he disappears again. The class that the sigil will have the most use against is druid.

But honestly the sigil isn’t really worth taking because it’s such a niche pick. Most overhyped thing ever.

Reveal Scrapper, knockback away from gyro and cc/destroy gyro, destroy gyro then weapon swap to reveal scrapper, or just reveal scrapper then condi bomb. I’m not saying it will destroy Sneak Gyro, I’m saying it will have the largest impact on Sneak Gyro.

Of course the biggest impact will be revealing a downed player so you can get the stomp off when a Scrapper is trying to stealth ress. Is it overhyped a bit? Sure, Thieves are going crazy about it for no reason. However, stealth ressing is very common right now and this will provide a reasonable counter.

Please refer to updated version in Sigil v2 thread.

saerni.2584:

Please refer to updated version in Sigil v2 thread.

For……?

Future contributions to this thread. Was mostly an FYI to anyone posting.

It’s a great sigil, keep it.

18sec cd sigil that applies 1/4th second of reveal on 240 radius.

It’s utter trash. The only thing it could ever be used for is negating stealth rezzes.

I think some counter to sneak gyro and celestial shadow is nice.
Currently you need scrapper or herald on your team to counter that. If you don’t have those two classes, team fight can be really really difficult if enemy scrapper/druid knows how to rezz.

Assuming Revelation requires combat like other swap sigils, then it doesn’t counter a stealth opening unless the user tags someone stealthed with aoe, then runs into 240 range of the stealthed group and swaps weapons — at which point your target just chose itself.

It could be a counter to the stealth res, though you’ve still got to complete a stomp (figure you were cleaving already) through the swirl of cc. It’d help anyone who can proc a swap effect via stance change mid-stomp, but otherwise a teammate has to do it.

May be wrong, but I frankly don’t see much reason to take the sigil over better alternatives. I certainly wouldn’t want to try to coordinate who’s going to run/use it at the beginning of a match. With the 18s cd, it’s just good enough to possibly be useful, but not so good that it’s mandatory, which I think is their design intent.

I wouldn’t mind this sigil if it either had a longer cool down (like 30 seconds) or if instead of being on swap it was on a crit with an 18 second cool down. That way you would need some crit focused build to run it effectively or a skill that makes your next hit a crit. You might be in stealth, but you can still get hit by AoEs or a random warrior spamming 1. That said, the 240 range does make this skill less threatening than say… a trap that applies reveal or a shout. The sigil could also have a revealed player cap, like reveal 2 players, but a cap of 5 would be reasonable if it goes to wvw. Personally, I will be running the boon hate sigil…