Guild Wars 2

Hey all, just reopening the thread that was started to discuss the problematic nature of the new necromancer healing skill, Signet of Vampirism. It was specifically started in the sPvP forum to discuss its impact on sPvP, both pros and cons.

The necromancer community would like to give feedback about this heal in sPvP and get the more objective opinion of other classes on its impact in sPvP. That is why we are moving it back to this sub forum.

Playing a necromancer, it seems as if everything this heal attempts to do could be better done with our other heals and that there really was a missed opportunity to create a fun, original heal here.

From the sPvP standpoint, what do both non-necromancer players and necromancers think about this new heal?

Thanks for the feedback!

Necromancer view:

-CD is 28s with trait , still kinda long
- Passive: the ICD ruins it, but luckily Anet has a bug going, which disables signets on DeathShroud … so theres no worries whatsoever
- Active: loong cast , 2x animations, making it interuptable and avoidable … and its still bad

Ideology
Most new heals are group support. Necro has enough of that +for necro, just staying alive means weaker enemys = support. But NO way to sustain ourselves, which was class logo. Id dish any group heals, just for stronger selfish siphons

I don’t know how you can criticize something being wrong/broken/whatever when you haven’t even had a chance to try it.

but hey, QQing about things that might happen is totally reasonable and understandable (/sarcasm)

hackks.3687:

I don’t know how you can criticize something being wrong/broken/whatever when you haven’t even had a chance to try it.

but hey, QQing about things that might happen is totally reasonable and understandable (/sarcasm)

Because the skill they previewed is at best the worst healing skill the Necromancers have access to.

In terms of group support, it pales in comparison to Well of Blood, which with Cleric’s gear can heal up to 5x more HP across the group, not to mention twice as much to yourself. And that team healing cannot be negated by something as simple as using a block, or dodging.

Consume Conditions base heal is higher than if you proc all 5 stacks (the max you can do), not to mention full condition removal, and an extra 700 healing per one.

Hell, even Blood Fiend, as useless as it is, will deal comparable damage and heal you for more.

If they introduced a new Elite into the game with a 100s CD that did 1 damage, could you criticize it without trying it? I hope so. It doesn’t take much work to do simple math to figure out this skill is worthless.

hackks.3687:

I don’t know how you can criticize something being wrong/broken/whatever when you haven’t even had a chance to try it.

but hey, QQing about things that might happen is totally reasonable and understandable (/sarcasm)

I can appreciate this sentiment in some circumstances, but Signet of Vampirism is a math problem. It’s terrible HPS and DPS no matter how it’s looked at.

I agree this topic should exist in spvp sub forum since necro sub forums I never know what mode whether pve wvw spvp some of those posts are referring to. This skill needs a spvp only version!

Here’s my view on it.

The leaked necro heal was way too op and would have been followed with much reasonable qq. First off the traited 16s cd was too low for the necro when combined with the signet’s mechanics, and runes are the reason why. For example runes of grenth would provide too much chill uptime for what the necro already has access too where chill is concerned. Bone Fiend gets away with it since its not a signet and MM don’t spam their heal for aoe chill since it attacks every 3 seconds. In a sense SoV with no icd would have had the best hps in game depending on how fast you are being attacked and what the variables would have been. In a sense balancing is even harder than in gw1 because of universal things like sigils and runes where they create an active effect like aoe chill on heal (10s cd) and on weapon swap (9s cd) across all classes. I could see perma chill being a necro meta on the leaked op version and cleanses won’t matter when you have up to 7 or more ways to access it.

Second thing is passive life steal on every hit which does damage. This is dependent on variables, but it would make retaliation even better with 2 passive damage sources on hit and imo would have a knifes edge to balance on either being too op or too ineffective. On one hand the necro has ds to deal with burst damage and the leaked version in the other hand would have a passive life steal (dps/hps) too deal with sustain. Variables might be able to control it but, I don’t like this game that much to jump down that rabbit hole.

Third is the knowledge that this mechanic works like a reverse condi stack. If anything this is an interesting step that acts like a hex as it involves player interaction after being cast versus the passiveness of applying a bleed or a burn.

The 1s icd is too high and should be reduced so that players can use more than 4 charges.

I think that the main Problem simply is that the numbers are too bad to be ever useful. They have to buff atleast the numbers to make that signet viable. And giving back the damage on the passive part would give it back its identity (I mean its strange, it is a vampire signet but it heals instead of siphoning life…).

I believe the data mined version had a shorter cooldown, no ICDs but no healing on use. The current version offers little in active healing and I’m fairly certain the passive healing is less than given from warriors healing signet.

It’s current state is pretty weak, there’s no denying it. I’m not sure the point of even bothering to create a new skill that many people will have trouble choosing over current heals.

Roe.3679:

The current version offers little in active healing and I’m fairly certain the passive healing is less than given from warriors healing signet.

If you get hit every second exactly on the second, it is 80% of healing signet (approximately). Every single time you aren’t proccing the ICD on CD, you lose even more healing.

Of course Necros complain about anything that doesn’t puke over itself with “obviously overpowered” stamped on it.

The signet pairs well with Blood Magic builds and is built for both dueling power builds, and helping in team fights. Conditions are going to be less common in pvp after the patch hits, and especially so over the coming months when “Immune” keeps popping up on the screen against Warrior and Ele, disappearing against Mesmer and Guardian.

This gives Necro a potentially viable duelist build if you have the understanding of your class outside of scepter/dagger staff most of you have been drooling with for so long.

Relentless.7023:

Of course Necros complain about anything that doesn’t puke over itself with “obviously overpowered” stamped on it.

The signet pairs well with Blood Magic builds and is built for both dueling power builds, and helping in team fights. Conditions are going to be less common in pvp after the patch hits, and especially so over the coming months when “Immune” keeps popping up on the screen against Warrior and Ele, disappearing against Mesmer and Guardian.

This gives Necro a potentially viable duelist build if you have the understanding of your class outside of scepter/dagger staff most of you have been drooling with for so long.

Look at the numbers on it, dude.

There is literally no argument you can make for this crappy new heal. Passively, it heals less than Blood Fiend. The active heals less than all of our other heals, and it is on a long cool down.

The team synergy isn’t there either. This heal does about 5k damage total assuming all the charges on it get used. Not only can I deal more damage than that in the time it would take to CAST the heal, but it also heals for about 1/4th as much as our other team oriented heal: Well of Blood.

I have played a Blood specced/Vampire Necro for almost a year… and there is nothing about this heal that makes it good for a siphon build or a 1v1 build, because you are still giving up a lot of healing and condition cleanse for this crappy signet.

The facts are in the math, the signet sucks, badly. You cannot logically state otherwise. The passive healing is worse than Blood Fiend, Healing Signet, and the active heals less than other heals with a longer cool down. It is trash.

Stx.4857:

Relentless.7023:

Of course Necros complain about anything that doesn’t puke over itself with “obviously overpowered” stamped on it.

The signet pairs well with Blood Magic builds and is built for both dueling power builds, and helping in team fights. Conditions are going to be less common in pvp after the patch hits, and especially so over the coming months when “Immune” keeps popping up on the screen against Warrior and Ele, disappearing against Mesmer and Guardian.

This gives Necro a potentially viable duelist build if you have the understanding of your class outside of scepter/dagger staff most of you have been drooling with for so long.

Look at the numbers on it, dude.

There is literally no argument you can make for this crappy new heal. Passively, it heals less than Blood Fiend. The active heals less than all of our other heals, and it is on a long cool down.

The team synergy isn’t there either. This heal does about 5k damage total assuming all the charges on it get used. Not only can I deal more damage than that in the time it would take to CAST the heal, but it also heals for about 1/4th as much as our other team oriented heal: Well of Blood.

I have played a Blood specced/Vampire Necro for almost a year… and there is nothing about this heal that makes it good for a siphon build or a 1v1 build, because you are still giving up a lot of healing and condition cleanse for this crappy signet.

The facts are in the math, the signet sucks, badly. You cannot logically state otherwise. The passive healing is worse than Blood Fiend, Healing Signet, and the active heals less than other heals with a longer cool down. It is trash.

Correction, it heals around the same as blood fiend. Blood fiend heals for ~900-1000 every 3 seconds, that’s 300-333/s where assuming SoV is proccing every second it’s healing for 340 per hit. Also the big heal from blood fiend is ~4k and initial self heal from SoV is also 4k. Now the big difference is that Blood Fiend can be killed and you get no heal. The signet does have nearly 2x the cooldown though, but it also has the group heal that heals for 2.77x more than the base blood well tick and also does some damage.

I’m not saying the heal is great, it’s certainly not even close to the mesmer’s new heal and certainly doesn’t approach the warriors signet. However it’s not exactly unusable. Sure you give up some condition removal but you gain a sustained heal with group utility. Now if I were to tweak it I’d say allow it to work in Death Shroud(all vampiric/siphons should) and remove the ICD. My reasoning is that with the duration of 5s and a 1s icd it’s tough to get all 5 possible heals. By removing the cooldown you allow for a bigger heal payday to combo play(Signet+Ghastly Claws/Life Siphon) but it isn’t guaranteed due to allies. I think that would better make up for it’s lack of condition removal and cooldown.

Distaste.4801:

I’m not saying the heal is great, it’s certainly not even close to the mesmer’s new heal and certainly doesn’t approach the warriors signet. However it’s not exactly unusable.

I appreciate the reasonable approach to the heal. I think the thing that is most demoralizing to most necromancers is that there was so much potential for a new heal skill and this heal seems to be a little bit of a hybrid of the idea behind Well of Blood (team support) and Blood Fiend (life siphoning/heal over time) but overall less effective than either.

I have posted this in another forum, but there were so many original ways that they could have gone with a heal like this, for example:

Signet of Sacrifice:
Passive: Regenerate life force
Active: Convert your life force to HP

or

Grenth’s Embrace:
Cast time 3 seconds. Pulses 3 times. Each pulse heals x HP.
Pulse 1: Apply blind in an AOE radius
Pulse 2: Apply blind and cripple in an AOE radius
Pulse 3: Apply blind, cripple and chill in an AOE radius

or

Bloodseeker:
Mark your target with 5 bloodseeker debuffs lasting 5 seconds each. Every time you hit the target, remove one bloodseeker debuff and heal 2k HP. No base heal.

Obviously with any of these the numbers would have to be balanced but they are just examples of concepts that the dev team could have used in developing a new necromancer heal skill. IMO, with a heal skill like SoV, we get the impression that the dev team is less excited about the necromancer in general and just making a heal skill because they have to, rather than saying “wow, you know what would be awesome” and getting excited about the possibilities.

Again, that is just a perception of the situation and I know that it is not 100% true. I also recognize that they did try to do something original with the heal as far ask being able to “mark” a target and siphon based off of that. The problem is that this was not the type of heal the necromancer needed. Survivability is the primary issue. Ability to stay “in the pocket” is the primary issue. This heal does little for that and had the potential to do a lot for that.

Distaste.4801:

My reasoning is that with the duration of 5s and a 1s icd it’s tough to get all 5 possible heals.

I think it’s impossible to get all 5 charges per player so in a 5v5 setting the most your team will consume is 20 charges.

1/2 = weapon speed of dagger
1 = the icd

1/2, 1, 1/2, 1, 1/2, 1, 1/2 = 5s

even with haste turning it into

1/4, 1, 1/4, 1, 1/4, 1 , 1/4, 1 = 5s

It is a shame it went live only being able to consume 20/25 charges for 5v5 in spvp.

Man its even worse than i thought. The scaling with healing power is also crappy. Every necro who will use this skill will make him/her self much weaker.

How many pages of warnings does it take for the devs to get a clue. I can’t believe they didn’t fix it.