Guild Wars 2

It sums up what to expect from the Leagues if you solo/duo queue.

First screenie is 8 minutes into video
Second screenie is 4hr and 59minutes into the video

I don’t think anyone else from his pro league peer group would ever attempt this…and shouldn’t. Mad props to him.

WOW

I was focused on him losing 2 pips from that last match that I failed to see the bigger picture like you did.

In fact, I started a thread about how difficult it would be for a soloQer to finish Emerald. But seeing this happen to one of the best pvpers is sad indeed. Hope he stops duo queuing.

So what are the conclusions?

If u rely on luck soloq, u are going to die and it doesn´t matter if u are a good player or not. If u wipe the uncertainty (form a group with skilled players) u increase probablity to win.

The perfidious of this system is that everybody wants to prove individually that he is a good player but u cant. There is no direct connection between good player and progress just indirectly over skilled group players.

So we know that helseth is a very good player so he hasn´t to prove it for us.

But think about people who are very good players too and we don´t know cause they don´t stream and so on.

We will unjustly blame these people with their yellow 1 star or green 2 star even if they are good players and it will frustrate them.

Because come on! ^^ How good can they be? just 1 star or 2?

Helseth is one of the best players but the system shows – he is not.

So who is right?

A video game should never frustrate people.

The worst thing is the solo queue players are just feeding free wins to premades. The whole system is contaminated until they add a solo queue. Why ArenaNet can not comprehend this is beyond me.. Three words come to mind: Revenue. Arrogance. Incompetence.

The league system is just plain obsiously geared towards low MMR people.

From my understanding, you lose less and win more pips with a low MMR (got 2 pips for wins more than once and no i don’t tank my MMR, i’ve just got less than 50 ranked games). While being a high skilled player such as Helseth gets you really punished if you lose and barely rewarded for winning.

I think this system COULD work if Helseth and many other experienced players were grouped with similar-skilled players AND were already in a rank reflecting their skill level (ruby / diamond at the least). These guys have so much to lose and so little to win I don’t even understand why he bothers (love is a curse i guess).

From what I see, unless Helseth groups up with his team and goes on roflstomp rampage there is no chance for him (and similar players) to get to an adequate division. I don’t think it’s fun, nobody does.

But hey, top priority is privileging casuals in a competitive mode right ?

Was it like that in GW1 ?

Well i saw him yesterday win against car washed..full premade..it’s not about solo que it’s about he is åt 50% winrate more or less. Thats why its hard to progress even tho he is pro. Thats why all lower there mmr to get e free ride

The main problem is that mmr was not reset at league start, I mean if you can go into unranked RIGHT NOW to intentionally lose games and it still affects your ranked mmr means the system is broken. BADLY. My main gripe with the mmr is that every game I have played has never been an easy win (solo), I intentionally trolled myself into joining some map chat lfg and lo and behold, me and a friend carried them to victory. Abjured actually put some pve player into their queue so they won’t get a 1hr queue (4 man), but suddenly the timer is so fast…….

XGhoul.7426:

The main problem is that mmr was not reset at league start

No, the main problem is, that the amount of pips you gain and loose is not effected by your mmr.

I mean if you can go into unranked RIGHT NOW to intentionally lose games and it still affects your ranked mmr means the system is broken. BADLY.

Unranked and ranked MMR are two completely different things.
Your math grade does not influence your english grade.

[Quote]
Unranked and ranked MMR are two completely different things.[/quote]

I think it’s The same, it’s just different when u look at leaderboard. But unranked and ranked mmr are The same.

Exos.3472:

From what I see, unless Helseth groups up with his team and goes on roflstomp rampage there is no chance for him (and similar players) to get to an adequate division. I don’t think it’s fun, nobody does.

In terms of the championship with the prize pool is concerned, he doesn’t need to get into the top division because he’s already in the pro league. As long as TCG doesn’t sink to the bottom of pro league, he’ll be fine. But you’re right, the whole league arrangement isn’t fun.

Klangy.8293:

I think it’s The same, it’s just different when u look at leaderboard. But unranked and ranked mmr are The same.

They are not. It has been confirmed multiple times, last time 16 hrs ago.

Each arena has its own MMR. They do not affect each other. Everything is split by arena, even profession MMR.

Source: https://np.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v91ec/im_rocketing_up_the_pvp_pip_system_already_tier_3/cxlwqpb?context=1000

The problem is not his high mmr cause he deserves to have a high mmr. There is nothing wrong with this. Why should u reset his high mmr so that he can play solo/duo-Q against average players?

But it shows what happens if u are a good player, high mmr and Duo/solo-Q. Its a LOT more work to climb than with a skilled premade group where u can exclude uncertainty / asymmetric information about other player,s external factors altogether.

This is what players frustrates but it can´t be changed except anet will implement soloq again

One thing is for sure. Top players in EU are nowhere near as GREEDY as NA. Just look at the difference in variety between the top 10 guilds from both regions.

The pvp community in EU is far more respectable.

trytonianYeti.4389:

One thing is for sure. Top players in EU are nowhere near as GREEDY as NA. Just look at the difference in variety between the top 10 guilds from both regions.

The pvp community in EU is far more respectable.

EU teams actually…lose. I guess they are more competitive and relate-able. NA looks like a monopoly atm. And saying that the system is still new wont change anything because the pro league players have already taken the top spots.

I’m actually in NA and have never played in EU. But if did put a smile on my face seeing more than 2 teams on EU’s roster.

Cuchulainn.7421:

The problem is not his high mmr cause he deserves to have a high mmr. There is nothing wrong with this. Why should u reset his high mmr so that he can play solo/duo-Q against average players?

If you believe Helseth isn’t playing against average players, then you understand nothing on how the matchmaking system works.

Matchmaking picks up 5 players and calculates an average-mmr for the team. This means that Helseth will only face two situations :

- be grouped up in a high mmr average pug group vs high mmr players and/or pro premades

- be grouped with newbies to lower the average mmr and fight mediocre opponents

You seem to believe the first case is the only situation. If it was, he would most likely have queues longer than anet’s balance to-do list. You should also regard the fact that it is known that pro teams also play at unreasonnable hours for easy wins (no finger pointing, it’s a fact).

On the second note, it might not seem too bad but have you looked at his streams ? He litteraly bursts down multiple ennemies by himself, and his teammates can’t even do a thing as simple as stomping. He’s essentially playing 1v9 there.

So no, you are completely off about that.

Cuchulainn.7421:

But it shows what happens if u are a good player, high mmr and Duo/solo-Q. Its a LOT more work to climb than with a skilled premade group where u can exclude uncertainty / asymmetric information about other player,s external factors altogether.

Again, you are wrong.

Because of the 50/50 winrate balancer, even if you muscle your way through the matchmaking system will purposely halt your progression by setting you in unbalanced matches, hence cutting your winning streaks.

This is why people purposely lose games at the stat of their level, so then they can artificially create a winning streak to the next level. And this can be achieve in solo or team queue no problem.

So what’s the moral of the story?

Competition is so uncool and passe. These days, it’s all about exploiting your way into victory.

A puppy dies every time a legitimate solo/duo queuer lose to exploiting teammates or farming opponents.

FOLKS – SOLO AND DUO QUEUE PEOPLE LOSE FROM EVERY DIRECTION. EITHER FROM HAVING CRAPPY TEAMMATES WHO WANT TO LOWER MMR OR GOING AGAINST 4MAN FARMERS.

I don’t like Helseth but even I will admit that this whole episode made him much more admirable and someone most of us can relate to.

Beginning to think his whole aristocrat-against-plebeian persona is an act. It’s ironic because unlike others from the pro league, he was the only one who experienced what the average (pleb) pvpers go thru.

Since people haven’t figured it out (which NA exploited) if you set a new team name, it meant your team mmr was fresh, so your first 3-4 matches were essentially farming solos/ambers/etc, with fast queue times. "Top “NA” teams" which should be reserved to one, have started to recruit someone with 0 pvp experience to get faster timers, they know who they are, and congratz to PZ and Mist Initiative to making the exploit more obvious .

XGhoul.7426:

Since people haven’t figured it out (which NA exploited) if you set a new team name, it meant your team mmr was fresh, so your first 3-4 matches were essentially farming solos/ambers/etc, with fast queue times. "Top “NA” teams" which should be reserved to one, have started to recruit someone with 0 pvp experience to get faster timers, they know who they are, and congratz to PZ and Mist Initiative to making the exploit more obvious .

OMG someone gets it. Sadly only you and a few others.

trytonianYeti.4389:

XGhoul.7426:

Since people haven’t figured it out (which NA exploited) if you set a new team name, it meant your team mmr was fresh, so your first 3-4 matches were essentially farming solos/ambers/etc, with fast queue times. "Top “NA” teams" which should be reserved to one, have started to recruit someone with 0 pvp experience to get faster timers, they know who they are, and congratz to PZ and Mist Initiative to making the exploit more obvious .

OMG someone gets it. Sadly only you and a few others.

Well it was fixed as of yesterdays* patch, so the only way to pip farm now is to pick up a complete fresh player or join one of the map heroes and carry them :P .

small edit: stronghold is a thing?

Leeto —> top dog.
Helseth —> not carried by his team anymore, back to trash level.

XGhoul.7426:

trytonianYeti.4389:

XGhoul.7426:

Since people haven’t figured it out (which NA exploited) if you set a new team name, it meant your team mmr was fresh, so your first 3-4 matches were essentially farming solos/ambers/etc, with fast queue times. "Top “NA” teams" which should be reserved to one, have started to recruit someone with 0 pvp experience to get faster timers, they know who they are, and congratz to PZ and Mist Initiative to making the exploit more obvious .

OMG someone gets it. Sadly only you and a few others.

Well it was fixed as of yesterdays* patch, so the only way to pip farm now is to pick up a complete fresh player or join one of the map heroes and carry them :P .

They were a day late with the patch and lot of the damage is done. NA roster disgust me and I’m not certain if it’s even possible to displace those teams.

I do know you spam blackgate hotm mapchat often….even before the leagues, lmao.

Ara.4569:

Leeto —> top dog.
Helseth --> not carried by his team anymore, back to trash level.

This

trytonianYeti.4389:

XGhoul.7426:

trytonianYeti.4389:

XGhoul.7426:

Since people haven’t figured it out (which NA exploited) if you set a new team name, it meant your team mmr was fresh, so your first 3-4 matches were essentially farming solos/ambers/etc, with fast queue times. "Top “NA” teams" which should be reserved to one, have started to recruit someone with 0 pvp experience to get faster timers, they know who they are, and congratz to PZ and Mist Initiative to making the exploit more obvious .

OMG someone gets it. Sadly only you and a few others.

Well it was fixed as of yesterdays* patch, so the only way to pip farm now is to pick up a complete fresh player or join one of the map heroes and carry them :P .

They were a day late with the patch and lot of the damage is done. NA roster disgust me and I’m not certain if it’s even possible to displace those teams.

I do know you spam blackgate hotm mapchat often….even before the leagues, lmao.

I don’t spam, only light more fuel to the fire in the casual map chat :P

Exos.3472:

Cuchulainn.7421:

The problem is not his high mmr cause he deserves to have a high mmr. There is nothing wrong with this. Why should u reset his high mmr so that he can play solo/duo-Q against average players?

If you believe Helseth isn’t playing against average players, then you understand nothing on how the matchmaking system works.

Matchmaking picks up 5 players and calculates an average-mmr for the team. This means that Helseth will only face two situations :

- be grouped up in a high mmr average pug group vs high mmr players and/or pro premades

- be grouped with newbies to lower the average mmr and fight mediocre opponents

You seem to believe the first case is the only situation. If it was, he would most likely have queues longer than anet’s balance to-do list. You should also regard the fact that it is known that pro teams also play at unreasonnable hours for easy wins (no finger pointing, it’s a fact).

On the second note, it might not seem too bad but have you looked at his streams ? He litteraly bursts down multiple ennemies by himself, and his teammates can’t even do a thing as simple as stomping. He’s essentially playing 1v9 there.

So no, you are completely off about that.

Cuchulainn.7421:

But it shows what happens if u are a good player, high mmr and Duo/solo-Q. Its a LOT more work to climb than with a skilled premade group where u can exclude uncertainty / asymmetric information about other player,s external factors altogether.

Again, you are wrong.

Because of the 50/50 winrate balancer, even if you muscle your way through the matchmaking system will purposely halt your progression by setting you in unbalanced matches, hence cutting your winning streaks.

This is why people purposely lose games at the stat of their level, so then they can artificially create a winning streak to the next level. And this can be achieve in solo or team queue no problem.

Ad 2.). This is clear, i can see that some players act like this and shows the sickness of the system.

Sure, u can fool the system to prevent loss but i don´t want to play like this. My statement aimed at normal play.

I don´t bother answering to 1.) though

Aeryn.9813:

Beginning to think his whole aristocrat-against-plebeian persona is an act.

I know Helseth made this video almost 2 days ago but there’s been another exploit where people intentionally lose to lower their MMR. I don’t think this behavior was present at the time of this video. Luckily, I don’t think the exploiters have reached Sapphire

Vapour.7348:

Luckily, I don’t think the exploiters have reached Sapphire

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v91ec/im_rocketing_up_the_pvp_pip_system_already_tier_3/

Think again

Exos.3472:

Vapour.7348:

Luckily, I don’t think the exploiters have reached Sapphire

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3v91ec/im_rocketing_up_the_pvp_pip_system_already_tier_3/

Think again

G*d, I love this game :/

Exos.3472:

Was it like that in GW1 ?

All pvp game modes except Guild vs Guild in GW1 just pulled players (or teams) from the queue with no matchmaking.

GvG used automated monthly tournaments and used a Elo-based ratings system for the ladder.

This is what I said almost a year ago on Dec 14, 2014. It’s unbelievable that after one year and after a major expansion, the pvp now is far worse.

Helseth is banned from these forums for a reason. That reason is that he is an online troll and bully. Some of the comments he has made about specific devs in the past make it even more hilarious that those same devs would ever listen to what he has to say. One time on twitch or youtube some of the things he said about karl and roy should of earned him a perma ban from all things gw2. Surprised anet never had the integrity to shut down such toxic members of the community

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is banned from these forums for a reason. That reason is that he is an online troll and bully. Some of the comments he has made about specific devs in the past make it even more hilarious that those same devs would ever listen to what he has to say. One time on twitch or youtube some of the things he said about karl and roy should of earned him a perma ban from all things gw2. Surprised anet never had the integrity to shut down such toxic members of the community

I can see how he can rub off as being a bully to some people.

But being banned from the forum doesn’t necessarily mean he’s vile. Sometimes I think the moderators don’t speak English. They issue infractions without understanding the whole context of the message. I am one infraction away from being banned. That’s after they banned my main account.

…and I’m usually pleasant!!!!

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is banned from these forums for a reason. That reason is that he is an online troll and bully. Some of the comments he has made about specific devs in the past make it even more hilarious that those same devs would ever listen to what he has to say. One time on twitch or youtube some of the things he said about karl and roy should of earned him a perma ban from all things gw2. Surprised anet never had the integrity to shut down such toxic members of the community

Careful what you wish for. You’d probably be the first person I’d ban if we’re solely talking about toxicity and constructivism. Nothing but relentless whining and complaining about classes other than necro.

People either love him or hate him, but Helseth actually knows what he’s talking about and unlike a majority of the pro players he actually cares enough about the game to speak up and point out the obvious flaws. If you’re upset over some banter and trash talk you either have to be a kid or have some serious self-esteem issues. I think most of the pvp players enjoy his impersonisation, whether its real or not.

Belial.9350:

Aeryn.9813:

Beginning to think his whole aristocrat-against-plebeian persona is an act.

Thanks for sharing your self-portrait. Nice to put a face with the name.

Psss ….. Heseth didnt get banned because he was a bully ….
Back in 2013 when the ‘’major teams’’ where spouting in the Twitchstream with the Devs , that : we should buff up things , so we can see something new in meta (3 Bersekers-2-bunkers it was back then) ….
and the rest of the community where following like a herd , so their character dont get nerfed ….
some1 in his stream went apekitten and he wanted to bring every class down to the Warrior lvl (after the global Haste nerf)

And 1 year later the community went apekitten when they gave Necro a 4 sec bruning or Warriors can be Tank-witchunhter where he can clease 3 DoTs every 10 sec and regen like kitten and those things claimed by the community detroyed the pro scene (….)

Why isn’t matchmaking based on Divisions but instead on a separate MMR scale? Seriously?

laquito.5269:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is banned from these forums for a reason. That reason is that he is an online troll and bully. Some of the comments he has made about specific devs in the past make it even more hilarious that those same devs would ever listen to what he has to say. One time on twitch or youtube some of the things he said about karl and roy should of earned him a perma ban from all things gw2. Surprised anet never had the integrity to shut down such toxic members of the community

Careful what you wish for. You’d probably be the first person I’d ban if we’re solely talking about toxicity and constructivism. Nothing but relentless whining and complaining about classes other than necro.

People either love him or hate him, but Helseth actually knows what he’s talking about and unlike a majority of the pro players he actually cares enough about the game to speak up and point out the obvious flaws. If you’re upset over some banter and trash talk you either have to be a kid or have some serious self-esteem issues. I think most of the pvp players enjoy his impersonisation, whether its real or not.

+1000…this Henry guy has been whining about anything but necro for the last 3 years, never banned despite the amount of troll threads, at least @Helseth is way more objective than he is

Ara.4569:

Leeto —> top dog.
Helseth --> not carried by his team anymore, back to trash level.

I think necros hate @Helseth because couple of years ago he was the only TOP pvper to have the decency to speak about the condi system in GW2 and classes like necro which are nothing more than brainless spam..wish I could remember the exact video, it can be found on his twitch anyway

Supreme.3164:

Ara.4569:

Leeto —> top dog.
Helseth --> not carried by his team anymore, back to trash level.

I think necros hate @Helseth because couple of years ago he was the only TOP pvper to have the decency to speak about the condi system in GW2 and classes like necro which are nothing more than brainless spam..wish I could remember the exact video, it can be found on his twitch anyway

Not from a couple years ago but still quite entertaining. I play all 9 classes but I place necro near the top in terms of least favorite. I don’t usually trait diamond skin but when I see a necro on the other team, I not only trait it but also swap to solider or sentinel ammy for laughs.

Vapour.7348:

This is what I said almost a year ago on Dec 14, 2014. It’s unbelievable that after one year and after a major expansion, the pvp now is far worse.

It’s the only “competitive” league in the known universe where you must lose to get ahead.

At 12noon PST please participate this event
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-on-guild-chat/

And bombard the hell out of them with our questions that need immediate answers, starting with – Why the hell are you destroying your own product?

Cuchulainn.7421:

……………

A video game should never frustrate people.

so a video game is supposed to be fun? i think thats the #1 thing anet needs to think about.

make the game fun → and more people will come to play → esports be more of a thing here

instead they keep trying to force it. anet forgot about the fun part

Were none of you playing in the last ladder season? It’s the same conversations, over the same mechanics, all over again. So your Lord finally has a taste of what the rest of us Solo Q’ing had last time. Welcome to the club, now shut up and play….

Btw, yes losing two points/pips for someone else’s dc’ing sucks. Yes, it sucks to be winning more than losing and still end an entire night with less than you began. This one step forward and two steps back is disheartening. I made a couple of threads about it in the Spring.

Jaxom.7310:

Cuchulainn.7421:

……………

A video game should never frustrate people.

so a video game is supposed to be fun? i think thats the #1 thing anet needs to think about.

make the game fun -> and more people will come to play -> esports be more of a thing here

instead they keep trying to force it. anet forgot about the fun part

Yep, so true. That’s why when it was released it was giant success across the board, because it was fun, now it’s just spend money, play what we created when it doesn’t even work properly, but we will chase a dream of every MMO to become e-sport, because GW2 is a special snowflake, and everything else ? Why we should care…

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is banned from these forums for a reason. That reason is that he is an online troll and bully. Some of the comments he has made about specific devs in the past make it even more hilarious that those same devs would ever listen to what he has to say. One time on twitch or youtube some of the things he said about karl and roy should of earned him a perma ban from all things gw2. Surprised anet never had the integrity to shut down such toxic members of the community

He is either right or wrong thats all that matters to me. He is 100% right here. Poor Roy and Karl hopefully no one will invade there “safe spaces” and “micro agress” against then any more. Someone pleeeeeaaaaase save teh children from the toxicity of the Pee Vee Pee community. Like him or hate him Helseth is extremely smart. Because I am an adult and don’t really get offended easily by almost anything if I was a dev I would ignore the taunts and read what he actually has to say about the game and I could quickly tell whether he had a point or not. People like you would dimiss good info because someone called you a bad name first. Seriously? Dismissing good info because of the source is childish as far as I am concerend.

Just because a guy considered top player is losing and complaining means that the system is bad?

1 – Stop giving credit to get this guy just because it’s considered top player, first of PVP do not play solo, it is usually a team effort.

2 – there are players who will not have the same his ability

3 – I’m also playing and caught sometimes bad players too

4 – Not at’re losing and still in emerald, means I’ll be crying and saying that the alloy system is bad, I’m not much of comment in the forum, but these cries are annoying to people who do not get what they want and are crying like a child because they did not win this one.

Guys – this is what anet should have done while still keeping their best interests (esports, they have such a huge fetish for esports) in mind:

Before promoting the $400K prize pool, they should have invested towards recruiting the best talent they could find. I know they lost 3 pvp developers this year alone.

Hire the best, pvp developers to flush out most of the disliked aspects of the mode. An experienced PvP developer will have the track record to know what users generally like and then apply those metrics towards this game. No need to redesign from the ground-up. The combat mechanics are already good.

If their goal was to create a game mode so amazing, so fun, so enjoyable and If they listened to some of the suggestions we gave them – the community itself, will organically spread how amazing the game is.

But they made the mistake of throwing more money in the prize pool thinking they would attract professional gamers to the scene. They need to remember that creating a superior, well-made product will yield a greater return on their investment as opposed to just throwing money away, baiting people to play an unplayable game.

Pimsley.3681:

Guys – this is what anet should have done while still keeping their best interests (esports, they have such a huge fetish for esports) in mind:

Before promoting the $400K prize pool, they should have invested towards recruiting the best talent they could find. I know they lost 3 pvp developers this year alone.

Hire the best, pvp developers to flush out most of the disliked aspects of the mode. An experienced PvP developer will have the track record to know what users generally like and then apply those metrics towards this game. No need to redesign from the ground-up. The combat mechanics are already good.

If their goal was to create a game mode so amazing, so fun, so enjoyable and If they listened to some of the suggestions we gave them – the community itself, will organically spread how amazing the game is.

But they made the mistake of throwing more money in the prize pool thinking they would attract professional gamers to the scene. They need to remember that creating a superior, well-made product will yield a greater return on their investment as opposed to just throwing money away, baiting people to play an unplayable game.

^ dis guy gits it

Geesus this system seems more frustrating and screwed up than halo 3’s ranking system.