Guild Wars 2

Dark Pact:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact
1 full second cast for: 3 second Immob, a small amount of damage, 600 range (for an attrition class that’s meant to keep people from running), 25 second Cooldown.

Pin Down:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down
1/4 second cast for: 3 second Immob, damage and 6 stacks of bleeds for 12 seconds, 1000 range as a finisher on a 25 second cooldown.

Seems a little off centered, especially given the purpose of the dagger/necro class in general, wouldn’t you be able to agree?

My suggestions would be:

Remove 1 bleed from Pin Down and increase it’s cast to 3/4 and make it noticeable which attack is being casted. (For those wanting to know why I request moving a bleed stack, simply because with a condi build and some might stacks it’s a 4 sec imob with a fast cast that does 10,000 damage. Yes it can be cleansed but it’s too much for one skill.)

Make Dark Pact 1/2 3/4 cast time, and 1200 1000 range so that it’s a more viable gap closer, which is the niche of a necromancer, keeping enemies from fleeing, and add a 2 second chill after the immobilize wears off.

Edited/updated the suggestion a bit based on feedback.

Can anyone back me up on this?

You should also be comparing these abilities to shockwave. I’d say pin down was really strong as opposed to dark pact being weak.

Oblivion.8307:

You should also be comparing these abilities to shockwave. I’d say pin down was really strong as opposed to dark pact being weak.

While I sympathize, I agree Eles get shafted often, the major difference here is that many Elementalist abilities have long cooldowns/lower effects on purpose because they essentially have 4 weapons worth of abilities. Not that it’s the best design, but that’s why it is that way.

My point with Dark Pact is that it’s a gab closer for a VERY weak mobility class and it has a terrible range and cast time. Playing with dagger can be a chore sometimes because unless you have other means of keeping on your target, by itself it’s not that self sufficient.

I think you’re thinking the wrong way. We shouldn’t be looking to buff other classes to power creep level. Pin down needs to be nerfed heavily.

Acandis.3250:

I think you’re thinking the wrong way. We shouldn’t be looking to buff other classes to power creep level. Pin down needs to be nerfed heavily.

No, I agree. But I can assure you, you’re not in danger of “overbuffing” dagger (1-3) for necromancer haha. At least not dark pact. It really does need a longer range considering the necromancer’s niche of keeping enemies from escaping (600 range isn’t doing anything and barely works as a gap closer).

I specifically linked shockwave as it’s the most comparable immobilize on a weaponset to pindown. It goes to show how strong pin down is. Necro immobilize is fine, it’s the longest base immobilize in the game on a weapon skill(other than pin down). It’s got 600 range though, other immobilizes which are generally longer range have a lower immobilize time by 1s~ giving them 2seconds base (Guardian hammer3/scepter 3, engi glue/net shot, ele earth dagger 3 and mes sword 3). The biggest other comparable immobilize to pin down is the guardian hammer 3 (Piercing/Line AoE) which is a 2 second immobilize however isn’t accompanied with 6 bleeds and has a 1 second cast time, with a lower cooldown and lower travel time. The immobilize i’d say was most like Dark Pact was guardian scepter 3 which is 1/2 second cast time, 2s immobilize @ 900 range with no projectile. If you’re going to try get necro dagger 3 buffed then the best skill to compare it to would be that one.

Pin down needs a nerf more than anything. It is way too strong given its cast-time and skill recharge. It’s really hard to dodge (if its not random-dodged, its probably not dodged), and hits SO hard for what it does.

Not playing necro, its hard to say if dark pact should be buffed, especially since it isn’t a projectile that can be dodged.

In general, don’t compare your class to a warrior – it will always come out on bottom.

You forgot to mention that pindown also has minor aoe effect as it hits targets in a line xD.

BlackBeard.2873:

Pin down needs a nerf more than anything. It is way too strong given its cast-time and skill recharge. It’s really hard to dodge (if its not random-dodged, its probably not dodged), and hits SO hard for what it does.

Not playing necro, its hard to say if dark pact should be buffed, especially since it isn’t a projectile that can be dodged.

In general, don’t compare your class to a warrior – it will always come out on bottom.

I’d agree with the projectile portion but the animation at least is VERY unique and obvious. Maybe not 1/2 cast but a 3/4 would be better than the full second cast, but due to the niche of the dagger, it really does need more range on the Dark pact. Dagger is a single target only (no cleave) melee weapon on a light armor class with the least amount of evades/defenses and a niche that’s supposed to keep enemies from fleeing. I just feel it needs a range buff at the very least. I don’t need it to do much damage or anything just close gaps a little better.

ronpierce.2760:

BlackBeard.2873:

Pin down needs a nerf more than anything. It is way too strong given its cast-time and skill recharge. It’s really hard to dodge (if its not random-dodged, its probably not dodged), and hits SO hard for what it does.

Not playing necro, its hard to say if dark pact should be buffed, especially since it isn’t a projectile that can be dodged.

In general, don’t compare your class to a warrior – it will always come out on bottom.

I’d agree with the projectile portion but the animation at least is VERY unique and obvious. Maybe not 1/2 cast but a 3/4 would be better than the full second cast, but due to the niche of the dagger, it really does need more range on the Dark pact. Dagger is a single target only (no cleave) melee weapon on a light armor class with the least amount of evades/defenses and a niche that’s supposed to keep enemies from fleeing. I just feel it needs a range buff at the very least. I don’t need it to do much damage or anything just close gaps a little better.

Really. Are you a politician or something? You mention that necro has few evades and is a light armor class, but at the same time you “forgot” about the high base health and two health bars.

I don’t need it to do much damage or anything just close gaps a little better.

Of course not. You want this skill to be buffed so that your minion master build would be better.

I can understand the need to a little more control on the necro. Perhaps one of the best options is a shorter immob (1s) and shorter cd (~12s) like earth-3 on ele dagger, maybe even with slightly more range. Lacking any gap closers, it could be very tough to not just get perpetually kited, regardless of your health.

I love the “2 health bars” comments. You realize Life force starts at 0 and if 1 or 2 abilities gets dodged gaining life force is slow and frustrating and if you don’t have at leat 10% you’re locked out of 5 abilities, and death shroud is a finite block where block skills and evades absorb any incoming amount for the duration. There’s a pretty specific reason people focus the Necro in PvP, its because they’re an easy target, and I didn’t even ask for that to be changed. >_>:

Dagger is #3 skill , while pindown is #5.

Therefore, it must be stronger.
Use a #5 skill to save the day…oh, the 1.25s cast never hits… well at least wariors 4k aoe blast on 2x lower CD is worse than our #3 ………. yeah…. better stop comparing to warr

Dark humor aside
-pin-down needs a 1s cast , 0.75s is dodge n pray GW2 style

- necro dagger ? honestly dont know a good fix, that Anet has time for…#2 is useless unless high toughnes + some healing p. …. A meh fix would be -CD

Maybe if they add a 5 sec chill procs after immobilize is gone, that would be interesting.

vicious.5683:

Maybe if they add a 5 sec chill procs after immobilize is gone, that would be interesting.

I’d be nervous to give necro more chill, I honestly just think a range boost would do just fine :S maybe a bit of a cast time cut that’s it.

Different classes have different skills, which are balanced differently.

NEWS AT 11!

Ashanor.5319:

Different classes have different skills, which are balanced differently.

NEWS AT 11!

I can tell you, pindown is not a balanced skill even within the warrior’s kit. >_> People make more stupid comments NEWS AT 12!

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Pact:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact
1 full second cast for: 3 second Immob, a small amount of damage, 600 range (for an attrition class that’s meant to keep people from running), 25 second Cooldown.

Pin Down:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down
1/4 second cast for: 3 second Immob, damage and 6 stacks of bleeds for 12 seconds, 1000 range as a finisher on a 25 second cooldown.

Seems a little off centered, especially given the purpose of the dagger/necro class in general, wouldn’t you be able to agree?

My suggestions would be:

Remove 1 bleed from Pin Down.

Make Dark Pact 1/2 cast time, and 1200 range (so it’s a viable gap closer), and that’s it.

Can anyone back me up on this?

1/2 second cast is too fast for something that isn’t a projectile, but then again hardly anything on necro has travel time making the class overall lack counter-play. pin down is kittened though, so is hammer 4.

Reevz.2617:

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Pact:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact
1 full second cast for: 3 second Immob, a small amount of damage, 600 range (for an attrition class that’s meant to keep people from running), 25 second Cooldown.

Pin Down:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down
1/4 second cast for: 3 second Immob, damage and 6 stacks of bleeds for 12 seconds, 1000 range as a finisher on a 25 second cooldown.

Seems a little off centered, especially given the purpose of the dagger/necro class in general, wouldn’t you be able to agree?

My suggestions would be:

Remove 1 bleed from Pin Down.

Make Dark Pact 1/2 cast time, and 1200 range (so it’s a viable gap closer), and that’s it.

Can anyone back me up on this?

1/2 second cast is too fast for something that isn’t a projectile, but then again hardly anything on necro has travel time making the class overall lack counter-play. pin down is kittened though, so is hammer 4.

Yeah in the comments I suggested maybe 3/4 instead or even leaving it if Pin Down got a deserving nerf, but I whole-heartedly believe Dark Pact needs a range increase, because while it doesn’t have a projectile it’s very well telegraphed. Look for someone holding their arm up and slitting their wrist (hand) and you’ll know you’re about to be immobilized.

Pin down is ridiculous. Thread over. nerf warriors.

Reevz.2617:

1/2 second cast is too fast for something that isn’t a projectile, but then again hardly anything on necro has travel time making the class overall lack counter-play. pin down is kittened though, so is hammer 4.

This is about power necro… Look at power necros set and be disappoint, son.
2 channeled skills which are easy to recognize and dodge, short range auto attacks, 1 sec casttimes and obvious and unique animations on dagger3/axe3, focus offhand is so slow in projectile speed (skill 4) and casttimes (skill 5) that it is nearly never used and DS 1 casts for about a second.
There is no problem with “travel times” on power necro, they are only problematic on scep/staff.

ronpierce.2760:

Ashanor.5319:

Different classes have different skills, which are balanced differently.

NEWS AT 11!

I can tell you, pindown is not a balanced skill even within the warrior’s kit. >_> People make more stupid comments NEWS AT 12!

Is that all you do is run around the forums whining about warriors?

Having 6 bleeds on one skill and 14 bleeds on other skill, is stupid, and everybody knows it.

Necro bleeds nerfed; Warrior bleeds totes okay? .. k k

Darnis.4056:

Having 6 bleeds on one skill and 14 bleeds on other skill, is stupid, and everybody knows it.

Necro bleeds nerfed; Warrior bleeds totes okay? .. k k

Not even going to dignify you guys with a response. You know perfectly well why it is different, if I have to explain it to you that means you are beyond help.

Yes don’t explain it to us instead just wave it off as us being bad or stupid even though we are top 100 Team que…

Darnis.4056:

Yes don’t explain it to us instead just wave it off as us being bad or stupid even though we are top 100 Team que…

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Btw I am not in any way affiliated with ronpierce :/ if anything after losing to them 2v2 I’m pretty buttmad about MMnecros.

You mean the team queue where a brain dead monkey could currently get top 100 since there are so few teams playing it? Like I said, you aren’t worth my time.

Soloque rank:
Rank Username Character Wins Loses Wins % Server
304 Ashanor.5319 Ashanor 49 50 49.49 Jade Quarry

Teamque Rank; None.
According to your definition; you are worse at gw2 then a brain dead monkey you are the one not worth anyone’s time.

We lose to GF VVV IER NEW all day, you lose to nobodies.

Get on my braindead monkey level son.

Darnis.4056:

Soloque rank:
Rank Username Character Wins Loses Wins % Server
304 Ashanor.5319 Ashanor 49 50 49.49 Jade Quarry

Teamque Rank; None.
According to your definition; you are worse at gw2 then a brain dead monkey you are the one not worth anyone’s time.

We lose to GF VVV IER NEW all day, you lose to nobodies.

Get on my braindead monkey level son.

Actually, solo queue has a larger population than team queue by a long shot, and if you think you have offended me by posting my leaderboard rank you are mistaken. lol

Also, since you think that rank maters so much, that rank is after a losing streak and a few days of decay. Normally I am in the 50-150 range, but I don’t really care about leaderboards that much.

I don’t play team queue because I don’t want to waste my time waiting for people to get online to play games and the queue for solo join in team queue is insanely long because of how dead the mode is.

Keep thinking you are some kind of pro though, it suits you well.

Comparing pin down and dark pact isn’t as accurate as comparing dark pact and magnetic grasp. If dark pact at least had the range and activation/recharges of magnetic grasp it would be 100% more useful. Yes pin down is op broken, but so is most warrior stuff. That’s not ever going to change. So instead of trying to compare it to unskilled warrior attacks, look to magnetic grasp. That would make dark pact pretty nice, imo anyway. Would also like to point out MG is unblockable :P

Darnis.4056:

Soloque rank:
Rank Username Character Wins Loses Wins % Server
304 Ashanor.5319 Ashanor 49 50 49.49 Jade Quarry

Teamque Rank; None.
According to your definition; you are worse at gw2 then a brain dead monkey you are the one not worth anyone’s time.

We lose to GF VVV IER NEW all day, you lose to nobodies.

Get on my braindead monkey level son.

Do you mean to imply that, in their current state, leaderboard ranks matter? Like, at all?

I don’t believe Dark Pact and Pindown to be a valid observation. One is a ranged skill, the other is a medium range skill. One is on a longbow, the other on a dagger. The dagger is a weapon meant for close range combat, the role of Dark Pact isn’t necessarily to chase someone, but to keep them in place. You get close, immobilize your target, and launch your assault (knowing you, with minions). It allows you to get off a fair amount of attacks assuming they don’t break the immobilize.

Pindown, however, is a ranged skill meant to keep the person in place and allow the Warrior to catch up and continue their attacks. It’s meant to be used as a way of preventing escape, and it’s very successful at it when used correctly.

Both skills are on very different weapons with different niches, it doesn’t seem to me as if their niche should be virtually the same given the differences between both the classes and the weapons they’re available on.

I think reducing the cast time of dark pact to 1/2 sec would be enough. And increasing the heal of dagger 2 would be nice, i feel it heals not enough for its unreliablity.

Good try; if Team que means nothing solo que means less then nothing and any player playing soloque will tell you it’s 99% luck 1% skill.
Great excuses; team que / solo que wait times are about the same.

I didn’t mean to embarrass you, just pointing out that if you’re calling me a braindead monkey you should look in the mirror because you’re not even close to braindead monkey level.

Did I imply I was a pro? or that Ranking meant a lot in regards to skill?
No. No.

If you can’t however even get on the leaderboards while saying that the people that are up there who could wipe the floor with you all day are bad and don’t know how balance works then what does that say about your player skill? If Leader board members have zero skill you have less then zero.

Also in regards to skill required; go look up the teams that are up there please tell me how low skill the top 100 players are..

Darnis.4056:

Good try; if Team que means nothing solo que means less then nothing and any player playing soloque will tell you it’s 99% luck 1% skill.
Great excuses; team que / solo que wait times are about the same.

I didn’t mean to embarrass you, just pointing out that if you’re calling me a braindead monkey you should look in the mirror because you’re not even close to braindead monkey level.

Did I imply I was a pro? or that Ranking meant a lot in regards to skill?
No. No.

If you can’t however even get on the leaderboards while saying that the people that are up there who could wipe the floor with you all day are bad and don’t know how balance works then what does that say about your player skill? If Leader board members have zero skill you have less then zero.

Also in regards to skill required; go look up the teams that are up there please tell me how low skill the top 100 players are..

Well. While there is truth to this because you have to face some incredible teams to get to top 100, just don’t rule out that there are great players who aren’t top 100! For example (not saying I’m great) but I was rank 12 and going strong, but I stopped pvping cause I just get bored with tpvp, and went from rank 12 to 150 in a week or so, but yes, team pvp is pretty obviously much higher skill-based than solo que.

A lot of loses are directly related to having a poor team member or a drop out… Team que often has coordination and teamspeak. If you can’t see how that affects “skill” versus soloque you have issues. Yes there is a smaller number in tpvp, but solo que still has more luck to it than skill.

ronpierce.2760:

vicious.5683:

Maybe if they add a 5 sec chill procs after immobilize is gone, that would be interesting.

I’d be nervous to give necro more chill, I honestly just think a range boost would do just fine :S maybe a bit of a cast time cut that’s it.

I wouldn’t. Chill does 0 damage it’s just annoying.

Zanryu.3417:

I don’t believe Dark Pact and Pindown to be a valid observation. One is a ranged skill, the other is a medium range skill. One is on a longbow, the other on a dagger. The dagger is a weapon meant for close range combat, the role of Dark Pact isn’t necessarily to chase someone, but to keep them in place. You get close, immobilize your target, and launch your assault (knowing you, with minions). It allows you to get off a fair amount of attacks assuming they don’t break the immobilize.

Pindown, however, is a ranged skill meant to keep the person in place and allow the Warrior to catch up and continue their attacks. It’s meant to be used as a way of preventing escape, and it’s very successful at it when used correctly.

Both skills are on very different weapons with different niches, it doesn’t seem to me as if their niche should be virtually the same given the differences between both the classes and the weapons they’re available on.

So you’re telling me that Pin Down can’t be used from close range to keep someone in place and allow a Warrior to initiate more offense, and that Dark Pact can’t be used to prevent escape?

Lol.

ronpierce.2760:

Ashanor.5319:

Different classes have different skills, which are balanced differently.

NEWS AT 11!

I can tell you, pindown is not a balanced skill even within the warrior’s kit. >_> People make more stupid comments NEWS AT 12!

Personal insults and not giving reasons as to why something is OP is becoming the norm on the forums

NEWS AT 1!

hmmm no pin down was untouched for more than a year.
it is fine as it is now.

yes i play a warrior.

Zeon.8239:

Zanryu.3417:

I don’t believe Dark Pact and Pindown to be a valid observation. One is a ranged skill, the other is a medium range skill. One is on a longbow, the other on a dagger. The dagger is a weapon meant for close range combat, the role of Dark Pact isn’t necessarily to chase someone, but to keep them in place. You get close, immobilize your target, and launch your assault (knowing you, with minions). It allows you to get off a fair amount of attacks assuming they don’t break the immobilize.

Pindown, however, is a ranged skill meant to keep the person in place and allow the Warrior to catch up and continue their attacks. It’s meant to be used as a way of preventing escape, and it’s very successful at it when used correctly.

Both skills are on very different weapons with different niches, it doesn’t seem to me as if their niche should be virtually the same given the differences between both the classes and the weapons they’re available on.

So you’re telling me that Pin Down can’t be used from close range to keep someone in place and allow a Warrior to initiate more offense, and that Dark Pact can’t be used to prevent escape?

Lol.

Never said it can’t, just saying they have different usual niches. Ultimately how you use a skill is up to you, but a skill shouldn’t be changed based upon what one person or a group of people want to use a skill far or based on how another skill functions, even though they have similar effects.

There are more than just effects that go into determining the balance of a skill.

Warrior needs to have his target immobilized to apply dps, even the so called ranged bow attacks a are designed for stationary targets or melee range use (look combustive shot, arcing strike, fan of fire)except autoattack.All melee weapons warrior has requires stationary targets because lowest range in the game and self root (flurry, 1hb).

I can understand that"might be annoying" for a necro to be immobized now an then but imo OPs point of view is unrealistic because a necro can apply apl his dps from range and needs zero effort of hitting a target.In comppete contrast with a warrior that has to constantly rush and stick to the target, counter all movement skill conditions and tanking his ranged dps at the same time.

I suggest to try a more apropriate aproach instead of just comparing 2 skills from 2 ENtirely different classes in the hopes for easy buff my nerf the enemy state of mind.It’s not healhy for the game.

mini.6018:

Warrior needs to have his target immobilized to apply dps, even the so called ranged bow attacks a are designed for stationary targets or melee range use (look combustive shot, arcing strike, fan of fire)except autoattack.All melee weapons warrior has requires stationary targets because lowest range in the game and self root (flurry, 1hb).

I can understand that"might be annoying" for a necro to be immobized now an then but imo OPs point of view is unrealistic because a necro can apply apl his dps from range and needs zero effort of hitting a target.In comppete contrast with a warrior that has to constantly rush and stick to the target, counter all movement skill conditions and tanking his ranged dps at the same time.

I suggest to try a more apropriate aproach instead of just comparing 2 skills from 2 ENtirely different classes in the hopes for easy buff my nerf the enemy state of mind.It’s not healhy for the game.

I disagree with most of this.

Longbow skills have no problem hitting moving targets, and 2 of them are aoe (the burst is hilariously over-sized too). There is no need for pin-down to be undodgeable. They might as well make it instant-cast if they want, it would play about the same.

Also, the high dps melee skills are a bad example. The sword burst applies its own root, so its not particularly hard to hit. Meanwhile, 100b does a silly amount of damage while rooted, which is done so that you actually have to set it up and not just “press 1 button—>win.” With all the condi clears and reductions (especially dogged march/cleansing ire), +movement speed, and cripples warrior can apply himself, actually balancing the OP bow-5 skill would not make them more kitable. It would just make their skills actually balanced.

Aaaargh Ron… You make a valid comparison pointing out how ridiculously strong LBow’s immob and bleed forever skill 5 is and you follow it by asking for another skill just like it to be made… We need less fast casting ranged immobs…

Increase LBow 5’s casting time and decrease Bleed duration, don’t buff other things so they are are kittened as it…

1s cast time in no way means pindown will fire a where you were 1s ago though. It won’t really make the skill any less accurate.

Bellamy.9860:

Reevz.2617:

1/2 second cast is too fast for something that isn’t a projectile, but then again hardly anything on necro has travel time making the class overall lack counter-play. pin down is kittened though, so is hammer 4.

This is about power necro… Look at power necros set and be disappoint, son.
2 channeled skills which are easy to recognize and dodge, short range auto attacks, 1 sec casttimes and obvious and unique animations on dagger3/axe3, focus offhand is so slow in projectile speed (skill 4) and casttimes (skill 5) that it is nearly never used and DS 1 casts for about a second.
There is no problem with “travel times” on power necro, they are only problematic on scep/staff.

but you could just go asura like everyone else, and yeah travel time should definately be added to their skills. you can enjoy your low counterplay bullkitten though keep playing necromancer

Reevz.2617:

but you could just go asura like everyone else, and yeah travel time should definately be added to their skills. you can enjoy your low counterplay bullkitten though keep playing necromancer

Oh god, how can devs stand to even reply to the people who frequent this subforum?

If asura “fixes” animations by not letting them be visible, why do you complain about lacking counterplay in the first place? Your whole argument about no counterplay only holds true for staff marks/doom which is only a source of damage in CONDI builds. Namely SD/staff dhuumfire.
Dhuumfire necros don’t use dagger MAINHAND.
So the whole threat is about POWER NECRO, who allows for counterplay since everything he does has either 1+ second casttime or 1+ second casttime +projectile for Life Blast.
So i don’t know what you want to tell me with “enjoy your low counterplay bullkitten” besides that you can’t read or are, for some reason, unable to use basic abilities of this game and get trashed each time you encounter a POWER NECRO…

Also
@nicknamenick:
Your comparison is somewhat flawed. Your numbers seem to be from incorrect tooltips.

Dagger AA chain is 2 second cast time in total. The tooltips on this one suck since day1.

Dagger 2 deals 900 basedamage total, not 9 times 900. To get a better picture, with a full zerker build and zerker trait layout you can expect to deal something between 4-6k dmg in a 3.5 sec timeframe with this skill (6k for low to zero toughness targets). Additionally this will heal for about 1.8k hp. One interrupt will stop it, one dodge will negate around 30% of the dmg and healing.

@Thread: I wouldn’t as much as cry for a nerf for warrior longbow. It is a weapon that got only recently popular through the much hated hambow, but it certainly is a strong weapon.
However necro dagger on the other hand is pretty rubbish apart from braindead pve bossfights. By direct comparison it is closest to longbow 4 since the cd and immob duration of both of those skills are identical.
But in terms of cast time and tertiary effects i think bow4 is vastly superior.
Also the comparisons seem to not acknowledge that this skill is on a melee weapon with no gap closer(dark path is still horribly flawed and mostly used as a stable source of bleeds for Condi builds while doom bursting) which makes it harder to compare to guard scep or ele dag3(which also got an afterhit gapcloser).

BlackBeard.2873:

mini.6018:

Warrior needs to have his target immobilized to apply dps, even the so called ranged bow attacks a are designed for stationary targets or melee range use (look combustive shot, arcing strike, fan of fire)except autoattack.All melee weapons warrior has requires stationary targets because lowest range in the game and self root (flurry, 1hb).

I can understand that"might be annoying" for a necro to be immobized now an then but imo OPs point of view is unrealistic because a necro can apply apl his dps from range and needs zero effort of hitting a target.In comppete contrast with a warrior that has to constantly rush and stick to the target, counter all movement skill conditions and tanking his ranged dps at the same time.

I suggest to try a more apropriate aproach instead of just comparing 2 skills from 2 ENtirely different classes in the hopes for easy buff my nerf the enemy state of mind.It’s not healhy for the game.

I disagree with most of this.

Longbow skills have no problem hitting moving targets, and 2 of them are aoe (the burst is hilariously over-sized too). There is no need for pin-down to be undodgeable. They might as well make it instant-cast if they want, it would play about the same.

Also, the high dps melee skills are a bad example. The sword burst applies its own root, so its not particularly hard to hit. Meanwhile, 100b does a silly amount of damage while rooted, which is done so that you actually have to set it up and not just “press 1 button—>win.” With all the condi clears and reductions (especially dogged march/cleansing ire), +movement speed, and cripples warrior can apply himself, actually balancing the OP bow-5 skill would not make them more kitable. It would just make their skills actually balanced.

Everything you said is just wrong or inacurate about both ranged and melee warrior damage skills.

Bow fir some reason was designed to be very very slow in both casting time and arrow travel speed resulting viable only at melee range where the arrow takes a quicker traveling time.Fan of fire is faster but does no damage and miases a lot at over 600 range, also viable only at point blank(130) range.Pindown is the only reason bow still works out but that wioo remqin to be seen with combustive shot nerf.

On the matter of bleeds.Conidering that on a condition build 3/5 skills including autoattack are power bases and do no condition damage, bleed is needed.Remember that pindown was fir nearly 10 months jus an immobilize and bow was absulutely useless as a condition weapon.The recharge is on par with nr5 skills so only an immob will be too underpowered.

You compare a lower rank skill to a nr5.All warriors nr 5 skills are terrible so far except bow.Hammer nr 5 gets nerfed today.Axe nr 5 useless.Mace nr5 telegraphed knd and bad nr4.Gs nr 5(broken).

We can only agree to disagree but imo your opinion is only based on pure prefference for the class you play and have little or no regard about other classes overall mechanisms.I would like that fear had a 2 second animation and castime instead of instant.But that is pretty resonable considering all warriors ccs have long animations and lower range.

Re

Don’t compare single abilities of different professions…

Erwin.5603:

Don’t compare single abilities of different professions…

Okay, Pin down is too powerful as it is for warrior abilities.

Dark pact is a bit underwhelming for necros due to the close ranged/no cleave nature of dagger. Is that better?

If they were to make it 900 range they’d probably need to reduce the immobilize by a second.

Oblivion.8307:

If they were to make it 900 range they’d probably need to reduce the immobilize by a second.

Not really. It’s not even that great as it is. If you want to go with the whole “don’t compare classes with other classes” you have to realize this spell is supposed to help keep the necromancer in combat with the enemy, and especially if you run dagger you have basically 0 mobility and have to still hit with melee. The only thing we have as a real gap closer is dark path which has a dodgeable projectile and requires you to already have life force to use. The whole idea behind necromancer’s sheer lack of mobility is that they can keep an enemy from fleeing but this just certainly isn’t cutting it. There’s absolutely nothing a necromancer can realistically do to keep enemies from fleeing if they want (Thieves/Mesmer/Warrior/Ranger/Engi/Ele) if they want to disengage, they’re going to hands down, unless they choke and wait too long or aren’t proficient with their escapes… Making it 900 range wouldn’t make it any more powerful when used in melee range but it would mean that dagger might have a some-what reliable gap closer. And just think; if a necromancer is using it to ensure they’re keeping someone from fleeing/using it to close a gap, that means they’re not using it in melee range to get free hits. The ONLY thing dagger has going for it is a decently high auto attack, but it doesn’t cleave, has poor mobility/gap closing and dagger 2 is pretty weak/easy target for interrupts. Hence why you don’t see many Necromancers who use dagger in pvp ever, despite the fact that there aren’t many power necromancers in general for the same reasons.

Heh, in power builds that’s a 3.9 second immobilize without a projectile @ 900 range. I’d much rather they lowered the cast time to .75 seconds, increased the range to 900 and reduced the immobilize to 2 seconds. I do acknowledge power necros weaknesses, however I really don’t think a 900 range 3.9 sec immob is the answer. I’d honestly prefer the changed other aspects of the necro in order to make power necro into a more viable option.

Edit: To guy above, pin down is incredibly strong, it’s such a low cast time with an obscenely hard to recognize animation. That and the fact 6 bleeds with an long immobilize in any build for such a prolonged period of time is going to do a lot of damage. Most of the time if you dodge pin down in close quarters you’ve dodged it fairly luckily,