Guild Wars 2

Make Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana two traits in the same slot, forcing a choice of one or the other.

Problem solved.

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with everything you’ve said.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Make Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana two traits in the same slot, forcing a choice of one or the other.

Problem solved.

I’m pretty sure this is unnecessary. Just use your 8 stacks of burning burst after eles switch out of water attunement.

Burning application on RoF and Drakes breath should be reduced by a stack each.

Might should be reworked to work like stability and give a flat ~300 and each ability eats a stack. Problem solved most classes that cant keep 10+ stacks of might (basically all) get buffed, and ele get brought down. It also brings a level of strategy to pop might before big hits that would be a promising change in game play.

Honestly the biggest problem with Ele is the way might works. Cap the might power at 250 rather than the 600-750 they can sustain and you’ll be amazed at the reduction in their damage.

It was Anet’s original idea. Then they listened to the QQ.

As an Elementalist, I agree. It would have forced a shift of power in the trait lines of Elementalist. Sure, they would’ve been pretty bad, at first, but it would’ve opened the window to buff other stuff.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Make Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana two traits in the same slot, forcing a choice of one or the other.

Problem solved.

One problem would be solved and ten more would arise.

With your proposal, you would destroy many Elementalist builds (SPVP Celestial Staff, SPVP Fresh Air, SPVP cele S/D, SPVP cele D/F, WvW Staff Ele, WvW D/F ele), just for the sake of balancing SPVP D/D ele.
I mean, the only builds untouched would be the PvE ones.

I believe that what many have already said (even in this topic) is a good step: reduce the burning output of D/D ele.

Reduce burning output

Nerf stop drop and roll.. why should a random dodge shut down Condi pressure..

Like most people allready said. Reduce the Burning output. From every skill that gives burning one stack, besides the skills that allready just give on stack.

Might is a problem. It brings some builds over the top. but if you cut down might like you said some other classes will get some trouble like HGH Engi, Cele Necro.

In the End it could be enough to just reduce burning.

Reduce might gain from burning fire to 2 stacks. Remove the blast finisher from water 3. Ele’s will have 5-6 might stacks less on average.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Make Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana two traits in the same slot, forcing a choice of one or the other.

Problem solved.

Sadly, the problem is not solved, because the problem is ANET.

FrownyClown.8402:

Reduce might gain from burning fire to 2 stacks. Remove the blast finisher from water 3. Ele’s will have 5-6 might stacks less on average.

That won’t do.. Might is not really the problem here. I suggested this on another topic:

Reducing the burning stacks from crossing Ring of Fire border from 3 to 1, reducing the duration of cleansing Fire burning from 4s to 3s (one less tick) and finally increasing Drake’s Breath CD from 5s to 8s (meaning that the skill would be, with -33% CD, on a 5¼s CD) might be steps in the right direction.
Less burning damage is one of the keys to achieve that. Of course these nerfs wouldn’t suffice alone, but I sympathize with the “little steps in the right direction ’till we get it” policy.

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

If the problem is largely only found in d/d elementalist while not being present in other weapon sets using nearly the same traits then the weapon set need looked at as a whole.

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

Ring of Fire is fine. You have to actually pass through the ring to get burned leaving the decision up to the opponent; it can also be blocked, invuln’d, and dodged through. Drake’s Breath has a long channel can easily be interrupted or avoided; a recharge increase to 10 seconds would be fine, though, as this would reduce its application from twice per rotation to only once.

OP’s suggestion is terrible and that would break all the other ele builds.

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

for about 3 years actually. I meant the burn damage. The damage in general is largely due to the large amount of might the elementalist can have. I don’t care much about the burn stacks but increasing cd on skills would hurt builds that don’t rely on stacking burn damage.

Why is everybody ignoring the real problem for 3 years this game run without any burn stacking, the moment burn stacking started everybody is whining but telling the real problem.

2 months ago there was no dot in this game that can tick for 6K damage.

Solution? You can stack burning up to 3 stacks in PVP, 4 th stack prolong the duration like old times. 3 stacks is open to discussion, old burn with cele stats + might had ticked for 560-600 damage new stacking should not be more then that.

posthumecaver.6473:

Why is everybody ignoring the real problem for 3 years this game run without any burn stacking, the moment burn stacking started everybody is whining but telling the real problem.

Uh, no. You do realize d/d ele got a myriad of other buffs and the changes to allow them a full other trait line great contributed? The burning stacking contributes, but it’s not the crux of the problem.

Exedore.6320:

posthumecaver.6473:

Why is everybody ignoring the real problem for 3 years this game run without any burn stacking, the moment burn stacking started everybody is whining but telling the real problem.

Uh, no. You do realize d/d ele got a myriad of other buffs and the changes to allow them a full other trait line great contributed? The burning stacking contributes, but it’s not the crux of the problem.

What buff? Cele was shaved by 10% when other amulets got buffed, blinding ashes got nerfed from 3 sec to 5 sec, and the tankiness from cele was reduced so much that shoutbow and cele rifle engi fell out of the meta. Mind you that those traits have been always there, its just that due to lack of trait points eles were forced to take earth for that remaining 2 points.

Also now we hear stuff like too much sustain, but before June 23rd it was too much sustain and tankiness. Suddenly all the traits that weren’t used are using, and suddenly those traits have become OP somehow. Even when eles give up earth for more damage and less tankiness, there’s always constant whining. At this point its almost l2p issue.

First nerf burning, and then complain about d/d ele.

Players: DD ele has too much access to burn damage
ANET: Cool, let’s nerf burn damage for everyone.

ANET normally goes for the easy (lazy) solution. Look at how they handled might.

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

for about 3 years actually. I meant the burn damage. The damage in general is largely due to the large amount of might the elementalist can have. I don’t care much about the burn stacks but increasing cd on skills would hurt builds that don’t rely on stacking burn damage.

You first post seems to be written by an entire different person. You basically said that burn is the problem, I suggested reducing burn stacks from cleansing fire, reducing burn duration and increasing CD of burning skills.
In your first post you said it’s wrong, in your last post you said it’s everything ele needs.

I am confused.

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

for about 3 years actually. I meant the burn damage. The damage in general is largely due to the large amount of might the elementalist can have. I don’t care much about the burn stacks but increasing cd on skills would hurt builds that don’t rely on stacking burn damage.

You first post seems to be written by an entire different person. You basically said that burn is the problem, I suggested reducing burn stacks from cleansing fire, reducing burn duration and increasing CD of burning skills.
In your first post you said it’s wrong, in your last post you said it’s everything ele needs.

I am confused.

He meant that he wants burning nerfs overall and not specific to D/D ele.

I disagree though.
In my opinion (whatever that’s worth), elementalist needs some heavy power reallocation. Ele is one of the few classes whos builds basically didn’t change post-patch, and that’s because none of the problems with the class were actually addressed (power is all contained in one huge synergy).
Arcane is necessary because it gives the most general defense and support out of any line, not to mention that the attunement CD reduction simply just makes the class play better. My solution would actually be to leave it alone. It’s the generalist line, and meta ele is extremely generalist, but if specialist builds became more viable you would probably see it less (though still a lot, unless you moved attunement recharge elsewhere).
Water and Cantrips are linked problems. The whole reason you take water as a D/D is because of cantrips (you’re taking two major traits solely because of them), though it is also the best sustain line (ironically, because you would think that glyphs or sigils would be the sustain utilities), which is another reason it’s taken. Really, we just need to nerf one and the problems with the other will be reduced. Nerf water and taking it for cantrips will be more of an investment, nerf cantrips and other utility types (and thus other traitlines) will become more important.
Earth and air are weak despite certain classes’ protestations, earth just happens to be oddly hardcountery and thus can just be really obnoxious.
Fire is for the first time not actually useless, but I agree that blinding ashes is stupid in its current implementation. 8-second icd per target would be better, probably (10s is probably too weak).
D/D probably just needs the blast on Water 3 removed, blasts in water are weird.
With other nerfs, celestial will be fine.

If anything is done to nerf eles, though, Glyphs, Conjures, Signets, and Arcanes need buffing pretty desperately, as well as scepter.

Burning needs an application nerf across the board. Literally every build that uses burning is problematic right now. The only reason people are complaining about D/D is because people have tons of experience on d/d ele and nobody in their right minds was playing burn engie or burn guard until a month ago.

IMO, just 3 changes will go a long ways:
- Drakes Breath, reduce to 2 stacks of burning.
- Ring of Fire, reduce to 2 stacks of burning.
- Trait Elemental Attunement, reduce boon duration by 25%.

You know I used to think thieves were OP until I played one. Same with eles.

Learn to play the class and you’ll learn to counter it. The ele is full of weaknesses, it’s one of the easiest class to kill if you hit it at the right moment.

You know I used to think thieves were OP until I played one. Same with eles.

Learn to play the class and you’ll learn to counter it. The ele is full of weaknesses, it’s one of the easiest class to kill if you hit it at the right moment.

Exactly this. I main elementalist and I’ve played so much hours of pvp as d/d ele that if I play another class like thief or necro (or another build like condition ele), I completely demolish them or at least pressure them so hard they have to run away.

A good d/d ele player will always have to play other classes to know their mechanics and how to counter them because of the squishyness of ele. So why does everyone else think he should be able to kill a d/d ele without learning its mechanics?

drake’s breath -1s per pulse, the way it was before the update.
cleansing fire 1 burn for 8s instead of 3 for 4s
ring of fire is fine, your problem for running through it, this is a l2p.

instant burns need to be toned down overall in the game, the same with guardian.
or there needs to be a burn cap of 5 per player with a total of 25 because 5×5.

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

for about 3 years actually. I meant the burn damage. The damage in general is largely due to the large amount of might the elementalist can have. I don’t care much about the burn stacks but increasing cd on skills would hurt builds that don’t rely on stacking burn damage.

You first post seems to be written by an entire different person. You basically said that burn is the problem, I suggested reducing burn stacks from cleansing fire, reducing burn duration and increasing CD of burning skills.
In your first post you said it’s wrong, in your last post you said it’s everything ele needs.

I am confused.

I am saying burn needs nerf, but should also be done so through how much might an ele is able to stack. Less burn damage and less might is basically what I am trying to get at

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

for about 3 years actually. I meant the burn damage. The damage in general is largely due to the large amount of might the elementalist can have. I don’t care much about the burn stacks but increasing cd on skills would hurt builds that don’t rely on stacking burn damage.

You first post seems to be written by an entire different person. You basically said that burn is the problem, I suggested reducing burn stacks from cleansing fire, reducing burn duration and increasing CD of burning skills.
In your first post you said it’s wrong, in your last post you said it’s everything ele needs.

I am confused.

I am saying burn needs nerf, but should also be done so through how much might an ele is able to stack. Less burn damage and less might is basically what I am trying to get at

umm burn nerf I agree with. Might stacking is just a nature of that class. Are you trying to kill diversity of class? Oh one class can stack might, so lets make sure that class can’t stack might anymore. Oh another class can give stability! Let’s make sure that stability can’t be given out anymore.

If this trends continues, you might as well have just 1 class with 1 set of weapon with same skill, same utility, and single amulet. Eles can stack might because they are eles. Mesmers can create clones/phantasms because they are mesmers. Learn to play with diversity.

TheFamster.7806:

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Frenk.5917:

FrownyClown.8402:

Those are all terrible ideas. The problem is the damage, not the stacks or cd of drakes breath.

How is reducing burning stacks and increasing DPS skills’ CD not nerfing damage?
Are you aware that, aside from burning speed and Firegrab (the first can be easily both predicted and dodged and the latter is on a 30s CD and is hard to land), the DPS comes from burning? Do you even ele?

for about 3 years actually. I meant the burn damage. The damage in general is largely due to the large amount of might the elementalist can have. I don’t care much about the burn stacks but increasing cd on skills would hurt builds that don’t rely on stacking burn damage.

You first post seems to be written by an entire different person. You basically said that burn is the problem, I suggested reducing burn stacks from cleansing fire, reducing burn duration and increasing CD of burning skills.
In your first post you said it’s wrong, in your last post you said it’s everything ele needs.

I am confused.

I am saying burn needs nerf, but should also be done so through how much might an ele is able to stack. Less burn damage and less might is basically what I am trying to get at

umm burn nerf I agree with. Might stacking is just a nature of that class. Are you trying to kill diversity of class? Oh one class can stack might, so lets make sure that class can’t stack might anymore. Oh another class can give stability! Let’s make sure that stability can’t be given out anymore.

If this trends continues, you might as well have just 1 class with 1 set of weapon with same skill, same utility, and single amulet. Eles can stack might because they are eles. Mesmers can create clones/phantasms because they are mesmers. Learn to play with diversity.

calm down. 6 less might won’t kill you.

Can’t agree with nerfing the stacks/durations/cds of ele burning skills when 90% of the burns come from the enemies being asinine. I’m fine with nerfing the way burn damage escales for all the classes but ele’s burning application is just fine, I mean, before the patch people would just stand in front of drake’s breath and cross all our fire fields without even thinking about it, now that has a price and I believe it’s why there are so much whining, learn to dodge/counter the skills, as you do to any other class and you’ll be fine.

Xillllix.3485:

You know I used to think thieves were OP until I played one. Same with eles.

Learn to play the class and you’ll learn to counter it. The ele is full of weaknesses, it’s one of the easiest class to kill if you hit it at the right moment.

I play a lot of D/D Ele and even I think it’s stupidly imba. It’s the class I bring if I want to make sure I win, because I know I can 1v2 any other prof for days and still get kills.

I’m disappointed to see a whole lot of QQ about burning in this thread… burning is not ele-specific. My suggestions were to nerf their godlike survival. This thread isn’t about burning. Take your tears about burning to another thread please.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Xillllix.3485:

You know I used to think thieves were OP until I played one. Same with eles.

Learn to play the class and you’ll learn to counter it. The ele is full of weaknesses, it’s one of the easiest class to kill if you hit it at the right moment.

I play a lot of D/D Ele and even I think it’s stupidly imba. It’s the class I bring if I want to make sure I win, because I know I can 1v2 any other prof for days and still get kills.

I’m disappointed to see a whole lot of QQ about burning in this thread… burning is not ele-specific. My suggestions were to nerf their godlike survival. This thread isn’t about burning. Take your tears about burning to another thread please.

I would totally 2vs1 your Ele with my necro + someone if you want to prove it.

I can not wait for the d/d nerf that is coming.. And Anet will be very, very heavy handed as is their norm..

d/d has is coming and rightly so..

Siobhan.3582:

I can not wait for the d/d nerf that is coming.. And Anet will be very, very heavy handed as is their norm..

d/d has is coming and rightly so..

I wouldn’t count on it. They got passed over entirely with most other things nerfed. They’re just in time for WTS to have 1 blatantly overpowered class. Should make for some great esports action.

Siobhan.3582:

I can not wait for the d/d nerf that is coming.. And Anet will be very, very heavy handed as is their norm..

d/d has is coming and rightly so..

I completely and wholeheartedly disagree with everything you said.

When the nerf comes, the d/d ele tears will be delicious.

Exedore.6320:

When the nerf comes, the d/d ele tears will be delicious.

There is not much left to nerf with the ele. Berserker is already nonviable and we’ve been cornered into 1-2 bunker builds that can keep us alive. Our might blasting has been nerfed too, mist form healing, our mobility in certain builds and RTL, our elites are kitten. If they nerf celestial then everyone will just drop the class and play something else.

You can killshot an ele in half the time it takes to cast a churning earth and the churning earth still does about 4 times less damage.

There won’t be any ele nerfs, why would there be? We are meant to poke at each other endlessly with skills that don’t do enough damage to scare a fly.

I suppose Anet tried the more damage-oriented version of pvp and they were scared of the results. Now it’s time to go back to good old cele wars. Maybe cele wars 2 since there was a little break of a month in-between.

Naurgalen.2374:

sunnypsyop.3025:

Xillllix.3485:

You know I used to think thieves were OP until I played one. Same with eles.

Learn to play the class and you’ll learn to counter it. The ele is full of weaknesses, it’s one of the easiest class to kill if you hit it at the right moment.

I play a lot of D/D Ele and even I think it’s stupidly imba. It’s the class I bring if I want to make sure I win, because I know I can 1v2 any other prof for days and still get kills.

I’m disappointed to see a whole lot of QQ about burning in this thread… burning is not ele-specific. My suggestions were to nerf their godlike survival. This thread isn’t about burning. Take your tears about burning to another thread please.

I would totally 2vs1 your Ele with my necro + someone if you want to prove it.

You can come with the signet spamming ele shutdown build on necro but you won’t be able to do anything else with it.

sunnypsyop.3025:

You can come with the signet spamming ele shutdown build on necro but you won’t be able to do anything else with it.

Except successfully and effectively 1v1 Meditation Guardians, Bunker Guardians, and Rampage Warriors.

TheFamster.7806:

Exedore.6320:

posthumecaver.6473:

Why is everybody ignoring the real problem for 3 years this game run without any burn stacking, the moment burn stacking started everybody is whining but telling the real problem.

Uh, no. You do realize d/d ele got a myriad of other buffs and the changes to allow them a full other trait line great contributed? The burning stacking contributes, but it’s not the crux of the problem.

What buff? Cele was shaved by 10% when other amulets got buffed, blinding ashes got nerfed from 3 sec to 5 sec, and the tankiness from cele was reduced so much that shoutbow and cele rifle engi fell out of the meta. Mind you that those traits have been always there, its just that due to lack of trait points eles were forced to take earth for that remaining 2 points.

Also now we hear stuff like too much sustain, but before June 23rd it was too much sustain and tankiness. Suddenly all the traits that weren’t used are using, and suddenly those traits have become OP somehow. Even when eles give up earth for more damage and less tankiness, there’s always constant whining. At this point its almost l2p issue.

First nerf burning, and then complain about d/d ele.

Exactly my opinion.

Water
-With attribute from trait lines DD Ele got 300 healing so with old Cele stats that was 760 healing now it is 560 so nerf.

-Before Sooting Ice was on 8cd for condi cleanse now it got frost aura and gone on 20s CD, I rather have a condi cleanse every 8s to an extra frost aura.

-bountiful Aura which was a Water GM minor and considering Ele has nearly all the time 5-6 boons on him was meant for %6 extra damage is gone.

Arcana
-Vigor nerf hit hard ele you all know it, we have to dodge a lot for Evasive Arcana + Dodge the real crap, so a Sigil Slot is dedicated to Energy sigil now instead of something more useful.

-We got Elemental contingency for free but considering whole theme of Ele about not being hit I am not sure this is a buff.

-We got %15 boon duration before from Arcana line now it is %10

So major 2 branches of Ele is worst then before now.

With the ability to go 3rd GM trait Earth become obsolete because other then Elemental Shielding none of other trait bring anything to table and you don’t do any damage . Please don’t tell me about that broking and boring Diamond Skin.

For unknown reasons Air is nerf to dead, which was already not good before anyways (ask to Scepter players if you don’t believe).

Now to be able take 3rd GM trait is a buff but every other profession got the same buff also, so if the Fire line was not OP before it is not OP now.

What get out of control if I am really talented or the enemy player is extremely bad, I can stack 12 stacks of burning on somebody which is ticking like 2K damage on a DOT and I think that is broken.

posthumecaver.6473:

I can stack 12 stacks of burning on somebody which is ticking like 2K damage on a DOT and I think that is broken.

Good luck on getting 12 stacks of burning on a player who isn’t walking through your Ring of Fire.

Velimere.7685:

posthumecaver.6473:

I can stack 12 stacks of burning on somebody which is ticking like 2K damage on a DOT and I think that is broken.

Good luck on getting 12 stacks of burning on a player who isn’t walking through your Ring of Fire.

If the person run out of condition cleanse with cleansing fire + drake breath + one cross (and i can arrange surely that he cross once) from ring of fire is 9 stacks, if he is a baddy, one more cross and 12 stacks.

It most definitely is the burn stack uptime on ele + passive CF trait , amazing burn uptime on a cele spec able to keep 20+ might uptime should not be allowed. Reducing the might by 5-6 stacks does absolutely nothing as it only drops the burning dmg by a little bit, very unnoticeable if you take this approach and they’ll still rely on heavy burn spam to carry.

The thing to do is reduce the burn stacks given by cleansing fire by 1 on the utility and 2 on the passive bullkitten CF trait , ring of fire by 1 and lowered duration upon entering/leaving it and drake’s breath by 1 with a reduction in duration as well per stack applied through the channel. Give them 5% dmg on drake’s breath to compensate for the loss in burning dmg. Also, remove blast finisher from #3 water , why did that even get implemented when they can achieve 25 might even without it now with fire traits. So silly.

This would be enough to lower the burning carry.

blitzkrieg.2451:

It most definitely is the burn stack uptime on ele + passive CF trait , amazing burn uptime on a cele spec able to keep 20+ might uptime should not be allowed. Reducing the might by 5-6 stacks does absolutely nothing as it only drops the burning dmg by a little bit, very unnoticeable if you take this approach and they’ll still rely on heavy burn spam to carry.

The thing to do is reduce the burn stacks given by cleansing fire by 1 on the utility and 2 on the passive bullkitten CF trait , ring of fire by 1 and lowered duration upon entering/leaving it and drake’s breath by 1 with a reduction in duration as well per stack applied through the channel. Give them 5% dmg on drake’s breath to compensate for the loss in burning dmg. Also, remove blast finisher from #3 water , why did that even get implemented when they can achieve 25 might even without it now with fire traits. So silly.

This would be enough to lower the burning carry.

Water blast finisher was introduced when cleansing water was with 10s ICD and Ele was completely out of META, they hoped that somehow it will bring the Ele back into the META with more might stacking off course it didn’t worked out and they have to remove the ICD but blast finisher stayed there.

In my opinion instead of start playing Ele’s burning durations, they should personally cap burning pro originator to 3 (or 5 whatever before the level of burn damage before burn stacking) there was no DOT in this game that can tick for 2K before and it should not be now also.

I think you are right about that auto triggering Cleansing Fire. It should not burn as much as the utility one, smite condition on heal of guardian is also not cleansing as many conditions as the utility one.

And might on cantrip was another try from ANet to bring build diversity to Ele when 0/2/0/6/6 was META. Off course it was also not successful and now with the third GM line it is OP that should also go.