Guild Wars 2

Certain builds really need to be fixed before anything else in PvP advances.

Condi Warriors
HamBow Warriors
AxeSword Warriors
PU Mesmers
Necros
S/D Thieves
MM Necros
Spirit Rangers

All of these builds need to have their ‘faceroll’ reduced. What I mean by ‘faceroll’ is their ability to perform very well, with next to no input. All of these classes can change the course of a fight, simply by being present, as opposed to their input in to an actual fight.

I can not honestly understand why these issues haven’t been addressed sooner. I understand a-net doesn’t want to employ the ‘whack-a-mole’ technique on balancing, but doing so with builds which trivialise PvP in such a manner would benefit the game greatly.

Let me guess, you play Engi and think Bomb Nade has a high skill floor lol

So, you’re saying these classes are fine? Or are you saying the classes listed in your signature are fine?

AxeSword Warriors

What build is this?

I’m saying that listing s/d thief as a lower skill floor than bomb-nade engi is ridiculous.

The only class that lacks a build easy to be effective with right now is Elementalist.

Also, did I guess right? Do you play Engi?

Harbinger.8637:

AxeSword Warriors

What build is this?

Have you not been hit by impale? You are in for a treat.

Phantaram.4816:

Harbinger.8637:

AxeSword Warriors

What build is this?

Have you not been hit by impale? You are in for a treat.

No, I just haven’t seen a warrior run axe/sword in tpvp.

Harbinger,
eh, a bit off topic but …

you have crafted 6 legendary weapons !!!
and sPvP rank 5x !!!
and solo arena top 100 !!! O_O

you are truly hardcore hybrid PvE / sPvP player !!!

/salute
/respect !!!!

eh by chance do you WvW as well? O_O

Harbinger.8637:

Phantaram.4816:

Harbinger.8637:

AxeSword Warriors

What build is this?

Have you not been hit by impale? You are in for a treat.

No, I just haven’t seen a warrior run axe/sword in tpvp.

It is an EU build I believe, some high ranked EU warriors came up with it

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Harbinger,
eh, a bit off topic but …

you have crafted 6 legendary weapons !!!
and sPvP rank 5x !!!
and solo arena top 100 !!! O_O

you are truly hardcore hybrid PvE / sPvP player !!!

/salute
/respect !!!!

eh by chance do you WvW as well? O_O

Harbinger is a respected wvw roamer from FC, too.

Back in April he (the OP) said he mains thief, guard and mesmer.
He probably is either a guard complaining about getting his boons stolen by S/D thieves or a legit mesmer who gets 100-0 in a second by an eviscerate.

K U T M.4539:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Harbinger,
eh, a bit off topic but …

you have crafted 6 legendary weapons !!!
and sPvP rank 5x !!!
and solo arena top 100 !!! O_O

you are truly hardcore hybrid PvE / sPvP player !!!

/salute
/respect !!!!

eh by chance do you WvW as well? O_O

Harbinger is a respected wvw roamer from FC, too.

wah !!!! O_O

true hardcore skilled sPvP / WvW / PvE player !!!!

O_O
/salute
/bows

guild wars 2 need more players such as Harbinger !!!

Cares about balance? Must be bad at the game!

I do like the personal jabs as opposed to actual balance discussion. Am I right in assuming that it is a mutual feeling in regards to all these classes then?

hihey.1075:

Back in April he (the OP) said he mains thief, guard and mesmer.
He probably is either a guard complaining about getting his boons stolen by S/D thieves or a legit mesmer who gets 100-0 in a second by an eviscerate.

Still betting he plays Engi. If he played Guard he would complain about Engineer too.

Phantaram.4816:

Harbinger.8637:

AxeSword Warriors

What build is this?

Have you not been hit by impale? You are in for a treat.

Yeah, Impale is full bullkitten and I will be the first to advocate this, but AXE/sword? Axe is a power weapon. I don’t think I’ve seen a build like this ever, really.

Might be sleeper. Gonna try it.

Infantrydiv, you seem to think my reasoning is due to classes being able to kill other classes.

If you read my first post, you’d see that I believe these builds are too easy to play for their level of reward. I have no problem with class counters, that’s a matter of rotation, which again can display skilful play.

Rolyate.6753:

I believe these builds are too easy to play for their level of reward.

some builds are meant to be easy to play.

the needs and wants of casual players must be taken care of to a certain degree, easy to play builds serves that purpose.

I agree, but not to the extent in which these builds allow. There should be something for those who wish to play casually, but it should not rival builds that require a huge time investments simply to rival passive effects.

Also, whenever I play bomb/nade I sit on a point, rotate through my grenade skills and then mash 1 on bombs like some kind of ranger. The other dude simply can’t fight on the point. Why have you not mentioned it?

The skill floor issue is important because it can cause balance to appear to be worse than it is, especially for new players. I can also cause solo queue matchmaking to be off, because clueless people are more likely to succeed and wander into high-tier matches if the skill floor gaps get too big…

However, I don’t think the gaps are currently that massive. There are still a few things that could use adjustment, but for the most part skill floors are somewhat decently close enough.

Also, dat hate for engineers.

Rolyate.6753:

Certain builds really need to be fixed before anything else in PvP advances.

Condi Warriors
HamBow Warriors
AxeSword Warriors
PU Mesmers
Necros
S/D Thieves
MM Necros
Spirit Rangers

All of these builds need to have their ‘faceroll’ reduced. What I mean by ‘faceroll’ is their ability to perform very well, with next to no input. All of these classes can change the course of a fight, simply by being present, as opposed to their input in to an actual fight.

I can not honestly understand why these issues haven’t been addressed sooner. I understand a-net doesn’t want to employ the ‘whack-a-mole’ technique on balancing, but doing so with builds which trivialise PvP in such a manner would benefit the game greatly.

“Necros” So you believe all necro builds are OP? I do admit the MM build and the dhuumfire build need to be toned down but try playing a necromancer without those current meta builds equipped and see how you do before assuming the whole class is op and needs to be tuned down.

I will agree with you in the fact that condi-warrior needs to be toned down due to the fact that they can be tanky, have high regen and still do a large amount of dps with condis.

Why do players want to destroy builds?

The OP wants to destroy 8 builds, why?

Shouldn’t we be trying to expand the number of builds?

You know create, rather than destroy.

There’s already been far to many builds destroyed in GW2 in 18 months already.

I think many players know now Anet love to over nerf things, so actively negatively lobbey for nerfs to classes they don’t like/play.

Meglobob.8620:

Why do players want to destroy builds?

The OP wants to destroy 8 builds, why?

Shouldn’t we be trying to expand the number of builds?

You know create, rather than destroy.

There’s already been far to many builds destroyed in GW2 in 18 months already.

I think many players know now Anet love to over nerf things, so actively negatively lobbey for nerfs to classes they don’t like/play.

He never said that, he just wants them to take more skill.

Rolyate.6753:

Certain builds really need to be fixed before anything else in PvP advances.

Condi Warriors
HamBow Warriors
AxeSword Warriors
PU Mesmers
Necros
S/D Thieves
MM Necros
Spirit Rangers

Certain builds need to be fixed, like a build called necro? A class with a lack in mobility and stability is considered a build that needs to be fixed (nerfed). All the classes in gw2 are easy to play, strange that you have not mentioned a bomb engy that spams aoe on the point constantly or guard that was all the way from beta and still is the best class to bunker mid. Before the patches a cantrip ele could be played just as easily, now since nerf the class still cant find its place.

Most of these builds have been around for the past 5/6 months, they’re still as broken as from the start, the only build that has been nerfed decently is hambow warrior and the storm spirit from rangers. Everything else received such a small nerf that you can’t even consider it as a nerf. I wouldn’t get your hopes up on it being changed any time soon.

If you destroy the no skill builds, one may imagine a high skill build could replace it.

Spirit ranger → trap ranger.

Change your title to skill ceiling, skill floor is the false word here.

In every game there are easiest professions/classes and difficoult ones…the biggest problem in any pvp game is allow PASSIVE abilities to make so much difference (healing signet, mm necro, spirit rangers ecc). The same problem with aoe dmg or conditions due to the game model that force u to stay on a point to cap it, being very easy to target by aoe brainless dmg

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Change your title to skill ceiling, skill floor is the false word here.

Well no, I’m talking about the fact that it takes next to no player input in the beginning, as opposed to no effort to master.

Though I would agree that both are true.

Rolyate.6753:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Change your title to skill ceiling, skill floor is the false word here.

Well no, I’m talking about the fact that it takes next to no player input in the beginning, as opposed to no effort to master.

Though I would agree that both are true.

Every game wants to have a low skill floor (see LoL, Dota, CS, Hearthstone etc.), there’s nothing broken about it. The “mastering” how you call it is applied to the word skill ceiling and this is the real problem.
At the moment the skill-ceiling is too low, which means that every player for eg. that plays warrior for two days will be nearly as effective as a player that is playing warrior since release.

The skill floor on the other hand is fine, as every casual can pick up a class and get pretty fast into the game. If I’ll take counter-strike for example. Every person can download it and after one day he knows the basic things. Nothing wrong with it. However he will loose to more dedicated and experienced players for sure.

And exactly this Situation is in GW2 not existing. The difference of class-level-play between casuals and dedicated players is too small. And this problem affects the SKILL-CEILING not the skill floor.

hope it is clear by now :P

I’m sorry but this is incorrect, skill floor is the level at which the class begins at. The ceiling is how much depth is added through player experience/ability/awareness. Currently, without any of these attributes warriors are effective, even when not played to a high level.

Good warriors are easy to tell apart from the bad ones.

I do appreciate your time taken to read the thread however.

Rolyate.6753:

I’m sorry but this is incorrect, skill floor is the level at which the class begins at. The ceiling is how much depth is added through player experience/ability/awareness. Currently, without any of these attributes warriors are effective, even when not played to a high level.

Good warriors are easy to tell apart from the bad ones.

I do appreciate your time taken to read the thread however.

That’s what I partially said . . . kitten.
However again: Skill floor is an attribute that is given, not an indicator for difference. The skill floor is low (which is good), doesn’t matter if the class is op without any effort or not.

Thing is you can add bunker engi and fresh air ele to this list. Both are brain dead. The ele spec might not be great yet but its totally ridiculous how all the damage is just instant. Anyone can play that spec.

Lordrosicky.5813:

. The ele spec might not be great yet but its totally ridiculous how all the damage is just instant. Anyone can play that spec.

Yes.
And, as anyone can play that spec, also anyone will die in 5s the moment the opposing team focuses the ele.
The difference is that Spirit Rangers, HS Warriors, Necros and Engis will last way longer.

hihey.1075:

Lordrosicky.5813:

. The ele spec might not be great yet but its totally ridiculous how all the damage is just instant. Anyone can play that spec.

Yes.
And, as anyone can play that spec, also anyone will die in 5s the moment the opposing team focuses the ele.
The difference is that Spirit Rangers, HS Warriors, Necros and Engis will last way longer.

You put on your blocks and invulnerabilies and click through your rotation. Really it is a spec with no counter play at all. They are invulnerable or blocking whilst doing instant cast, instant time damage of a high level. It is brain dead.

I told everyone not to listen to the forum badies when they buffed necro before the dhuumfire patch. Necro was skill based, fun and viable. All it needed at that time was small nerfs to things like ele sustain and engineer hgh spam. But they listened to the badies who just said it needed all these buffs. And that was the beginning of the end for this game.

Warrior too. They listened to the badies and buffed warrior instead of nerfing other stuff. And now they nerf everything around healing signet. Breaking the class gradually.

They will listen to people like you for the ele so dont worry. Ele will become broken just like necro was. Then they will nerf all the aspects of it around the lame/no-skill parts and you will end up with a broken class. Ele actually needs nerfs like everything else. Some buffs sure, but nerfs too. Everything needs nerfs in fact. They must get skill back into the game. IDK who you are and you dont seem to even be top 1000 on the leaderboards. If its a smurf then wp, otherwise I dont think people who arent capable of playing at a high level should pretend to know anything about the games balance.

Btw i’m running axe/shield war for pug fun…and even if i’m not listed into those low skill floor specs i have to say that even running an “out of meta” spec it’s still facerolling as kitten, way more than my main shatter mez with thousands of tpvp games on it..when talking bout warriors you don’t talk about broken builds…class it’s just broken no matter the build you’re running, you just need right op traits/utilities and you’re done..no spec actually takes so much skills on a war atm..some are just totally “spam to win” like hambow, banner bunker or s/s cond….but others are not challenging to play for sure..or at least way less than my other mains while still being more effective #espathz

If it’s named “Ark Goes Braindead” there’s a reason..no matter what i’m running i’m still braindead..

Archaon.6245:

Btw i’m running axe/shield war for pug fun…and even if i’m not listed into those low skill floor specs i have to say that even running an “out of meta” spec it’s still facerolling as kitten, way more than my main shatter mez with thousands of tpvp games on it..when talking bout warriors you don’t talk about broken builds…class it’s just broken no matter the build you’re running, you just need right op traits/utilities and you’re done..no spec actually takes so much skills on a war atm..some are just totally “spam to win” like hambow, banner bunker or s/s cond….but others are not challenging to play for sure..or at least way less than my other mains while still being more effective #espathz

If it’s named “Ark Goes Braindead” there’s a reason..no matter what i’m running i’m still braindead..

Low tiers are a mess… I could faceroll people with SD engi.XD

However, warrior is truly braindead when you play it on the smallest asura available.