Guild Wars 2

How come there are certain skills, that seems they were made to make a weapon useless? Let me explain myself.

I, as a warrior, use greatsword as my main weapon, not only because I like the damage output, but also because I like it style, yet, there are certain skills that basically make the charge + frenzy + hundred blades totally useless.

For instance, Mesmers, ah yes, the beloved Mesmers, they have something called “Mirror of Anguish” (Chaos Trait), which basically knocks you down if you charge to them.
Are you serious? Wasn’t hard enough to find the real one, that when you do, you can’t even knock him down to hit him with the combo.
Which reminds me that there’s also a Ranger’s skill that is pretty similar, but instead of knocking you down, they vanish, just like the Thieves.

So, let me ask again, WHY? Why Arena Net has implemented these skills?
I’m not talking about the 7, 8 & 9 skills, which kinda requires the player to click on them during the right moment, then this would be fair, no, the skills I’m talking about are in the traits section, which means they will be automatically activated once you charge to the player, so basically destroys the weapon’s combo without even trying.

Don’t suggest me to change my weapon or to try a different play style, because I have used all the weapons as a Warrior and I don’t want to change, I just happen to like the greatsword the most and I think everyone should be able to play with whatever they want and still be capable of being efficient.

I don’t see warriors having a skill trait that allows you to recognize the real Mesmer or to see the invisible Thief/Ranger for a short period of time.
That would be unfair, right? Well so is the fact of not being able to play the way I want with the profession and weapon I chose.

KEEP IN MIND, that I’m not complaining because I failed my combo because someone avoided it or because I didn’t calculate the right distance or timing, etc., NO, I’m complaining because doesn’t matter how good I am with it, I won’t be able to make it work as long as the mentioned skills remain in the game.

Yea dude. Everything has a counter…
Passive or reactive it doesn’t matter…
Are you seriously complaining about that?

You have to learn to use your 100 blades wisely, and not blindly after every time you charge. Glass cannons…

This is not a counter. First answer and it had to be ignorant. Do you people even read?
I’m not complaining because there’s a counter, I’m complaining because it is automatic, without requiring skill from part of the player.
Counter is when a Ranger shoots 100 arrows at your direction and you BLOCK them.
Counter is when a Warrior charges and you ROLL OVER.
etc.
Counter can’t and shouldn’t be something that COUNTERS an attack automatically.

Use my 100 blades wisely? I’m sure I’m someone that uses it pretty well.
Read again and you will understand that doesn’t matter how well you do it, you just won’t be able to hit them anyway.

DRV.8731:

This is not a counter. First answer and it had to be ignorant. Do you people even read?
I’m not complaining because there’s a counter, I’m complaining because it is automatic, without requiring skill from part of the player.
Counter is when a Ranger shoots 100 arrows at your direction and you BLOCK them.
Counter is when a Warrior charges and you ROLL OVER.
Counter can’t and shouldn’t be something that COUNTERS an attack automatically.

First answer also said “passive or reactive shouldn’t matter” do YOU read?

ALSO: a passive counters like that usually have 90second internal CDs.

Sezu.8564:

DRV.8731:

Counter can’t and shouldn’t be something that COUNTERS an attack automatically.

Why not?

Are you trolling me?
OK, then, let’s make an automatic skill that allows Warriors to detect the real Mesmer once they have cloned themselves.

The less required skill the better, right?

DRV.8731:

Sezu.8564:

DRV.8731:

Counter can’t and shouldn’t be something that COUNTERS an attack automatically.

Why not?

Are you trolling me?
OK, then, let’s make an automatic skill that allows Warriors to detect the real Mesmer once they have cloned themselves.

The less required skill the better, right?

I’m not trolling you. Anyone can come on the forums and say A needs buff, or B shouldn’t be in the game, or even C takes no skill. There needs to be room for a deeper discussion here. Why do you feel this way? How would this effect the balance of the those situations, and more importantly the meta game.

I’d just like to see more thought out responses to the issues at hand. I didn’t mean anything offensive by it.

Edit – You have to think about what those professions are giving up to gain those passive counters.

for Ranger I’m assuming you’re referring to the Hiding in Plain Sight trait that is a 20pt Master trait in their toughness/condition dmg tree. Pretty SOP for shortbow/crossfire rangers these days. Engi’s have a similar trait that does the same thing. They’re never far from where you CC’d them and it won’t proc again for the Ranger for another 30sec or so. Just hold back a 2nd stun/immobilize and toss some aoe or AAs till he pops back out of stealth. CC again and HB to your hearts delight.

Just gotta learn the tricks for each class. They’re difficult to counter until you figure out how it works. Came across an engi last night that was using it but it didn’t do him any good as I play an engi from time to time as well and no exactly what’s happening when he goes invis.

You’ve also gotta understand that GS Warriors were a nightmare for people at release and the meta quickly developed for countering them – it’s really not that hard to avoid a Warrior you can see coming (hint hint)

Both sides of this discussion have good points.

On one hand, if you get knocked down you should be able to survive and pick another strategy from your toolbox. Being wise to what they can do, you might just try anyway and beat their cooldown on the next attempt.

On the other hand, I can see how getting your best attack neutralized by a passive trait could be frustrating, especially when you need to dedicate and blow a utility slot just to set up for it. A warrior’s strongest moves make or break him because they don’t have other gimmicks to fall back on.

All the classes have a trait that does “x when you get cc’d,” the Mesmer one just happens to be the same effect on the user. I’m pretty sure these traits have a 90 second cool down.

As said previously, don’t just rush in and expect to 100 blades and destroy anyone. Probably why these traits exist to begin with. Also, your example of having a trait that reveals the real Mesmer or something isn’t even the same and doesn’t compare.

You do realize that the mesmer talent that does this (it reflects any CC back to the caster) has a 90 second ICD, yes? So get that shield out and bunker down until you have another stun ready and whack him.

DRV.8731:

This is not a counter. First answer and it had to be ignorant. Do you people even read?
I’m not complaining because there’s a counter, I’m complaining because it is automatic, without requiring skill from part of the player.
Counter is when a Ranger shoots 100 arrows at your direction and you BLOCK them.
Counter is when a Warrior charges and you ROLL OVER.
etc.
Counter can’t and shouldn’t be something that COUNTERS an attack automatically.

Use my 100 blades wisely? I’m sure I’m someone that uses it pretty well.
Read again and you will understand that doesn’t matter how well you do it, you just won’t be able to hit them anyway.

Charge>Quickness>HB is a gs warrior’s kill. The mesmer skill you pointed out COUNTERS the charge.

Rolling is not countering a warrior. Rolling is evading his power attack. Counters are using your skills/abilities to nullify someone else’s strength, ie flipping conditions into boons (guardian @ necro, for example) or flipping boons into conditions (necro @ guardian), or even reflecting ranged attacks (quickening zephyr ranger @ shield warrior w/ reflect).

I think we all get frustrated at mesmers from time to time, but honestly as someone who plays a warrior and a guardian in pvp, I think GS warriors are second only to d/d thieves in the “I just don’t want to hear you QQ” category, because you are mostly just driving around throwing quickness at people and hoping they die.

http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2247/tempest-defense
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1878/autodefense-bomb-dispenser
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2425/retaliatory-subconscious
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2218/mirror-of-anguish
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2332/reapers-protection
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1356/hide-in-plain-sight
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2354/hard-to-catch
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1081/last-stand

Every class has an ability that does x when CC’d with an internal cooldown. It is a choice on behalf of the player to take this. Yes it is often more powerful than a standard stunbreak as it is passive and cannot be controlled and thus if your actually smart about what you do it can be easily worked around. Hell, the mesmer one is far from being the best of them…

Here’s an idea… you have the ability to change your skills any time out of combat. If you see said player and know he has one of those traits slotted throw a smaller CC at him. This proc’s the ability, puts it on cooldown and then you can go to town!

Shocking I know, it’s an ability that makes you have to think beyond ‘hit 5,6,7 and 2’ but there’s nothing imbalanced about it when every single class has access to similar mechanics and you are giving up another passive trait to gain it.

DRV.8731:

How come there are certain skills, that seems they were made to make a weapon useless? Let me explain myself.

I, as a warrior, use greatsword as my main weapon, not only because I like the damage output, but also because I like it style, yet, there are certain skills that basically make the charge + frenzy + hundred blades totally useless.

For instance, Mesmers, ah yes, the beloved Mesmers, they have something called “Mirror of Anguish” (Chaos Trait), which basically knocks you down if you charge to them.
Are you serious? Wasn’t hard enough to find the real one, that when you do, you can’t even knock him down to hit him with the combo.
Which reminds me that there’s also a Ranger’s skill that is pretty similar, but instead of knocking you down, they vanish, just like the Thieves.

So, let me ask again, WHY? Why Arena Net has implemented these skills?
I’m not talking about the 7, 8 & 9 skills, which kinda requires the player to click on them during the right moment, then this would be fair, no, the skills I’m talking about are in the traits section, which means they will be automatically activated once you charge to the player, so basically destroys the weapon’s combo without even trying.

Don’t suggest me to change my weapon or to try a different play style, because I have used all the weapons as a Warrior and I don’t want to change, I just happen to like the greatsword the most and I think everyone should be able to play with whatever they want and still be capable of being efficient.

I don’t see warriors having a skill trait that allows you to recognize the real Mesmer or to see the invisible Thief/Ranger for a short period of time.
That would be unfair, right? Well so is the fact of not being able to play the way I want with the profession and weapon I chose.

KEEP IN MIND, that I’m not complaining because I failed my combo because someone avoided it or because I didn’t calculate the right distance or timing, etc., NO, I’m complaining because doesn’t matter how good I am with it, I won’t be able to make it work as long as the mentioned skills remain in the game.

I can’t believe a warrior is complaining about this.

First off, if a ranger goes stealth, he is 90% of teh time still immob and you can get your 100 blades off. Do ti anyways, just because they are invis doesn’t mean you can’t do your attack. IT JUST MEANS THEY ARE INVIS.

Secondly, bull rush/stun/100 blades warriors are a nightmare for people. the far fewer you hit, the better for EVERYONE. Being able to 100 blades people every 8 secs is horrible. That skill needs a longer CD. Fortunetly, of all teh classes, warriors seem to have the BEST balance of gap closers, mobility, CC cleanse and damage of all the classes. It only took 3 BWE’s of focusing on you to get it right. Wish we had that with the thief, mesmer and rangers.

They have 90 second CDs, which means your charge will be up before it. Do you only bring 1 CC? Try bringing a Sword on off-hand. Activate Flurry, immediately swap, use 100B. The immobilize stays in place.

This thread is hilarious.

DRV.8731:

That would be unfair, right? Well so is the fact of not being able to play the way I want with the profession and weapon I chose.

You’re wrong. Your opponents are people not mobs. If you play like a mob and don’t adjust to what your opponent brings to the field you deserve to lose. As others have pointed out, the ability you’re complaining about isn’t even very powerful but you’re getting stuck because you’re not dealing with it.

Master Charles.7093:

Both sides of this discussion have good points.

On one hand, if you get knocked down you should be able to survive and pick another strategy from your toolbox. Being wise to what they can do, you might just try anyway and beat their cooldown on the next attempt.

On the other hand, I can see how getting your best attack neutralized by a passive trait could be frustrating, especially when you need to dedicate and blow a utility slot just to set up for it. A warrior’s strongest moves make or break him because they don’t have other gimmicks to fall back on.

Finally, a reasonable answer.
At least this guy saw the point.
Thanks.

This passive trait has a cooldown which means that you’ll just have to activate it once before you use your combo. This can be done easily due to weaponswitching.
Pretty much the same thing against Guardians, it not the wisest decision to charge a guardian as your first move, because the aegis will block it.

Funny that the weakest defensive classes (light armor) 30-60 second longer CDs than the others.

i found it funnier that a warrior cry about his best combo being avoided. next thread will be"remove break stuns", then “remove dodge”. because force opponent to waste all break stuns he has before using main damage is too mainstream..
..oh, and don’t forget that usually to have that passive bonus, you have to sacrifice traits…

A warrior that is crying that his iwin skill does not always lands = priceless

Use a shield on your second weapon set. Start the fight with your shield, fish for your opponent’s passive and reactive cooldowns. Block their burst, then switch and destroy them, never interrupt your burst because your opponent dissapeared. He will likely reappear in downed state. GS warriors require good thinking and extremely fast reaction time to play well. Granted mesmers do too much damage for their high escape and survivability, but let’s just hope it gets balanced in time, and meanwhile just don’t take it personal when you lose to one of them.

Terrible thread, it is on a 90 second cooldown and coming from a warrior who has the most passive defence in the game (HP + armour) it is particularly funny.

So, you are saying that there is no skill required when a passive trait kills your combo, right?
But now, tell me where is the skill in pressing 3 buttons in a specific order, because I suppose that also at your side there should be some skill required, right?

shaolin.9716:

Use a shield on your second weapon set. Start the fight with your shield, fish for your opponent’s passive and reactive cooldowns. Block their burst, then switch and destroy them, never interrupt your burst because your opponent dissapeared. He will likely reappear in downed state. GS warriors require good thinking and extremely fast reaction time to play well. Granted mesmers do too much damage for their high escape and survivability, but let’s just hope it gets balanced in time, and meanwhile just don’t take it personal when you lose to one of them.

Yeah that’s true because Mesmer and Engi are both low skill cap classes.

Honestly, I play Warrior most of the time aswell. Just play Mesmer for a time, get to know they skills and abilities. Same goes for Ranger and Thief, just get to know what they can do. You will figure out where the character is once you know what their skills are capable of. Characters in stealth can still be hit, although you can not see it. There is a trick however, your Chain Attack (skill number one) will change to the next skill once you have hit someone, that way you can be sure when you have hit someone. But seriously, stealthed characters can still be effected by all sorts of things, they just cannot be targeted or seen. You have to ’’think’’ where they are.

Schwahrheit.4203:

shaolin.9716:

Use a shield on your second weapon set. Start the fight with your shield, fish for your opponent’s passive and reactive cooldowns. Block their burst, then switch and destroy them, never interrupt your burst because your opponent dissapeared. He will likely reappear in downed state. GS warriors require good thinking and extremely fast reaction time to play well. Granted mesmers do too much damage for their high escape and survivability, but let’s just hope it gets balanced in time, and meanwhile just don’t take it personal when you lose to one of them.

Yeah that’s true because Mesmer and Engi are both low skill cap classes.

Only a Thief would exclude the thief out of that sentence.

I actually entered this thread expecting a conversation about the Moa transform. I probably reached as far as I could by saying I understand the frustration warriors face when getting their main stratagem shrugged off. Sometimes it feels like they’re shoehorned into their burst mechanics and don’t have anything else outstanding to fall back on.

I do, however, think that these abilities are generally reasonable

http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2247/tempest-defense
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1878/autodefense-bomb-dispenser
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2425/retaliatory-subconscious
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2218/mirror-of-anguish
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2332/reapers-protection
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1356/hide-in-plain-sight
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2354/hard-to-catch
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1081/last-stand

And, it’s cool to see all the tips and solid advice given here

For the sake of the discussion topic, I’d like to shift gears towards some other skills.
I tend to think any ability could be straightened out with the right math, however…

1) The Moa Transform: Incredibly annoying, unreverseable, and 10 seconds long. Is it balanced? does it belong at all? Wouldn’t you rather be turned into a Quaggan!? (j/k)

2) Summons in general: I’m all for ’em, but so is every class in the game (except warrior, who is the only class not capable of creating MULTIPLE or even one entity to attack for him). The real question is, with all the illusions, elementals, pets, fiends, thieves guildies, spirit weapons, and turretstuffs(?), is there any way a spectator could keep up with it all? Does it add too much clutter on screen? and how to fix it, ect…

3) Stealth in general: feels like everybody’s doin’ it. I know that’s not the case, but I was hoping this mechanic might get left to the rouges on this one. thoughts?

I’m not saying any of these things shouldn’t be there, I’m just considering their overall place and effect on the meta (and e-sports), and how adjustments might be made

omg, i totally agree on Moa transform…..in fact, just like people cry about backstab everyone should cry about Moa transform. If the duration was only 3secs like some of the immobilize skills it would be no big deal but it lasts too long.

Sezu.8564:

DRV.8731:

Sezu.8564:

DRV.8731:

Counter can’t and shouldn’t be something that COUNTERS an attack automatically.

Why not?

Are you trolling me?
OK, then, let’s make an automatic skill that allows Warriors to detect the real Mesmer once they have cloned themselves.

The less required skill the better, right?

I’m not trolling you. Anyone can come on the forums and say A needs buff, or B shouldn’t be in the game, or even C takes no skill. There needs to be room for a deeper discussion here. Why do you feel this way? How would this effect the balance of the those situations, and more importantly the meta game.

I’d just like to see more thought out responses to the issues at hand. I didn’t mean anything offensive by it.

Edit – You have to think about what those professions are giving up to gain those passive counters.

This ! <3 you Sezu !

… and if you experience it a lot maybe counter it … or at the very least expect those moves.

What I find weird? Thieves stolen version of fear is longer than mine … that puzzles me. Not complaining the slightest about my CC as necro, but I DO find a 5 sec fear to be a bit OTT (yeah yeah, “bring stabilizers and anticipate it” … I am, there are just so many pesky thieves :P).

Master Charles.7093:

I actually entered this thread expecting a conversation about the Moa transform. I probably reached as far as I could by saying I understand the frustration warriors face when getting their main stratagem shrugged off. Sometimes it feels like they’re shoehorned into their burst mechanics and don’t have anything else outstanding to fall back on.

I do, however, think that these abilities are generally reasonable

http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2247/tempest-defense
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1878/autodefense-bomb-dispenser
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2425/retaliatory-subconscious
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2218/mirror-of-anguish
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2332/reapers-protection
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1356/hide-in-plain-sight
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/2354/hard-to-catch
http://www.guildhead.com/trait/1081/last-stand

And, it’s cool to see all the tips and solid advice given here

For the sake of the discussion topic, I’d like to shift gears towards some other skills.
I tend to think any ability could be straightened out with the right math, however…

1) The Moa Transform: Incredibly annoying, unreverseable, and 10 seconds long. Is it balanced? does it belong at all? Wouldn’t you rather be turned into a Quaggan!? (j/k)

2) Summons in general: I’m all for ’em, but so is every class in the game (except warrior, who is the only class not capable of creating MULTIPLE or even one entity to attack for him). The real question is, with all the illusions, elementals, pets, fiends, thieves guildies, spirit weapons, and turretstuffs(?), is there any way a spectator could keep up with it all? Does it add too much clutter on screen? and how to fix it, ect…

3) Stealth in general: feels like everybody’s doin’ it. I know that’s not the case, but I was hoping this mechanic might get left to the rouges on this one. thoughts?

I’m not saying any of these things shouldn’t be there, I’m just considering their overall place and effect on the meta (and e-sports), and how adjustments might be made

Don’t even get me started about the moa transformation crap.

hehe. that’s what I thought you were starting. tbh, all the abilities can belong with the right calibrations. this thread is just helping to point out the major outliers. I’m sure with a 6-8 second affect time and perhaps more responsive moa-state abilities it will find its respectful place.

I did forget to mention the mesmer portal, however. Even without repair kits, how incredible is it to teleport your entire team from point to point on any conquest map?

Well, as a cond dmg thief, i find annoying that the engineers go immune to conditions below 25% health, but well, c’est la vie you know.