Guild Wars 2

All of the maps have their differences and they all require a slightly modified strategy for a team to be successful:

- Foefire has lord (worth 150 pts when killed) and very large cap points
- Kyhlo has the treb and a lot of Z-dimension play.
- Niflhel is basically pve to win.
- Capricorn has underwater play and a cannon.
- Spirit watch has the orb.
- Temple forces you to be aware of buff timers.
- Skyhammer has the hammer and disappearing floors when you walk on them.

Skyhammer isn’t that different from every other map — you need to cap points, hold them and win your fights. A lot of people complain that they get yanked down a hole by a stealthed thief or an engi with tool kit. The truth is that if you have good positioning and map awareness you won’t get pulled down a hole (you can see the holes flicker before you get pulled so just dodge roll … iirc just moving will often cause scorpion wire to miss or not pull you properly). Bringing stability will also save your bacon.

At high level PvP this game (most games for that matter) is more about mind games and being unpredictable than about cheap tricks and cheese builds. Don’t be a scrub and you’ll learn to appreciate Skyhammer a lot more.

I will say however, that the hammer should probably be dodgeable — but that’s a very minor grudge for me.

Are you a hotjoin hero?

- Lord is worth 150 points and only ever used as a do or die comeback mechanic
-kylo treb can be destroyed, so no one complains
- In Nifihel no one goes for monsters in high rated pvp unless you absolutely can, capping nodes is of a much MUCH greater priority
- Capricorn is bad design and promotes tunnel vision zerging and the underwater part…i think this is why is IS NOT in solo queue OR team queue
-Spirit, again IS NOT IN team queue for a reason
-Temple buff timers are very good for strategic play

I’ve come to the conclusion i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR POINT IS!?

You listed different map mechanics to somehow justify skyhammer? Skyhammer IS different to every other map because it is so class bias and has a one shot/ unavoidable mechanic when trying to cap a point.

I’m fed up of people saying L2P…it takes NO skill to knock someone off/pull them off the skyhammer…it just benefits the classes with more cc/more stability.

I’m sorry but you are going to get so much slack incomming for your pointless argument I have warned you!

Liam McColgan.7689:

I’m fed up of people saying L2P…it takes NO skill to knock someone off/pull them off the skyhammer

It does if they know it’s coming. Being predictable is the worst way to play in PvP.

Liam McColgan.7689:

Are you a hotjoin hero?

Nope, I’ve over 1000 tournament matches played.

You guys have different opinions – some people are willing to create a build/class for this particular map – there is no arguing that the map is imbalanced in that certain class/builds have huge advantage over others. Whether you are willing to build for it or not seems to be at least one of the main contention points… although you have high level players like Ostrich, who DO build for it and excel, but still hate the map. I also take the forum polls on the map with a grain of salt because I think there is a certain demographic that frequents the forum which might not actually represent the whole (statistically it can’t be very far off but it might be far off enough to bias the results). I really think it’s not as bad of a map as people make it out to be but that’s my opinion and due to my willingness to take up a character slot for a toon that is especially suited for the map – I think it’s a fair argument that this should NOT be necessary. I don’t think the map should be totally removed, but for teamq/soloq i think it should be possible to opt out of it. I could see that maybe someone wants to put together a gimmicky team SPECIFICALLY for this map – and to see teams that are built that way play against each other might be very amusing.

Leadfoot.9071:

I also take the forum polls on the map with a grain of salt because I think there is a certain demographic that frequents the forum which might not actually represent the whole (statistically it can’t be very far off but it might be far off enough to bias the results).

Yeah, for a poll to be truly representative of the population it needs to be given to a randomly selected group.

As just one more indicator, go look at the hotjoin servers. Most of the ones rotated to Skyhammer have fewer players than other maps. I’ve watched half the people leave a full hotjoin server when Skyhammer comes into the rotation.

@Qaelyn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Not even necessarily disagreeing with the larger point but… just sayin…

Well that one event was anecdotal, but I consistently see fewer players on Skyhammer maps than others.

Atleast dont make it the first map in the rotation after a server reset…please?

Qaelyn.7612:

Well that one event was anecdotal, but I consistently see fewer players on Skyhammer maps than others.

That’s still anecdotal… what you see is a small sample and does not constitute factual evidence… there also may be some confirmation bias involved. I respect your opinion and all and don’t even necessarily disagree with you – but I do not think what you are saying counts as factual evidence about the popularity of the map. It would be interesting to see ANets data on the matter… pump it into lavastorm and do some analysis.

the truth is…anet is too proud of their “creation” so they will never change or remove that map from rotation because it would be just admiting that they didn’t do their job properly

you know why they won’t even add option to remove skyhammer from rotation? because in reality majority hates that map so queues for that map will be insanely long in soloq since everyone would just disable that map for themself…

so here we are, getting forced to play on incredibly imbalanced map that favors engis by huge margin; the fact that majority of players hate this map and don’t wanna be forced into class/build they don’t enjoy just shows how much devs care about our opnion or players for that matter

i started to play gw2 because they advertised how much they care about pvp etc., reality looks so different

Cynz.9437:

the truth is…anet is too proud of their “creation” so they will never change or remove that map from rotation because it would be just admiting that they didn’t do their job properly

so here we are, getting forced to play on incredibly imbalanced map that favors engis by huge margin; the fact that majority of players hate this map and don’t wanna be forced into class/build they don’t enjoy just shows how much devs care about our opnion or players for that matter

i started to play gw2 because they advertised how much they care about pvp etc., reality looks so different

ahhh, back out to lunch with them again? Next time can you put in a good word for me? Thinking I’d like to maybe get a shot at developing for them.

Leadfoot.9071:

Cynz.9437:

the truth is…anet is too proud of their “creation” so they will never change or remove that map from rotation because it would be just admiting that they didn’t do their job properly

so here we are, getting forced to play on incredibly imbalanced map that favors engis by huge margin; the fact that majority of players hate this map and don’t wanna be forced into class/build they don’t enjoy just shows how much devs care about our opnion or players for that matter

i started to play gw2 because they advertised how much they care about pvp etc., reality looks so different

ahhh, back out to lunch with them again? Next time can you put in a good word for me? Thinking I’d like to maybe get a shot at developing for them.

if you checked pvp forums lately, you could see post by dev with the link of vid about how they made skyhammer….they ARE proud of this map

Well, it doesn’t have to be discarded. It just needs to be adjusted so there’s more playing against other players and less against the map.

Even something simple like doubling the CD on the hammer would help. That’s a very easy change. It needs more than that, but it would be a start.

Meanwhile I’ve been here 4 months and have never seen an Arenanet employee even discuss this issue.

Cynz.9437:

Leadfoot.9071:

Cynz.9437:

the truth is…anet is too proud of their “creation” so they will never change or remove that map from rotation because it would be just admiting that they didn’t do their job properly

so here we are, getting forced to play on incredibly imbalanced map that favors engis by huge margin; the fact that majority of players hate this map and don’t wanna be forced into class/build they don’t enjoy just shows how much devs care about our opnion or players for that matter

i started to play gw2 because they advertised how much they care about pvp etc., reality looks so different

ahhh, back out to lunch with them again? Next time can you put in a good word for me? Thinking I’d like to maybe get a shot at developing for them.

if you checked pvp forums lately, you could see post by dev with the link of vid about how they made skyhammer….they ARE proud of this map

Of course they are proud… they are game developers and they developed something that some percentage of the community enjoys playing – regardless of whether that percentage is the majority it’s still an accomplishment.

You pretend like you know what they are thinking and that they are so ridiculously vain/stubborn that they would not consider changing or maybe even removing the map due to popular demand which I think is totally ridiculous and just… lol.

I believe they are probably looking at REAL data, not forum banter, and trying to ascertain how the community really feels about it, like any half competent software engineering team would do – sure the forum qq is part of the equation but you have to be open to the possibility that it’s not necessarily representative of the community as a whole.

Qaelyn.7612:

Well, it doesn’t have to be discarded. It just needs to be adjusted so there’s more playing against other players and less against the map.

Even something simple like doubling the CD on the hammer would help. That’s a very easy change. It needs more than that, but it would be a start.

Meanwhile I’ve been here 4 months and have never seen an Arenanet employee even discuss this issue.

Look at some of the responses to dev posts – can you really blame them? If I were them I’d be pretty kitten skittish about posting on the forums – especially regarding such a hot topic. I’m not trying to come across like some dev fanboy or anything – I agree with a lot of the criticism, I just think things would be a lot better if we all took a breath and showed each other some respect – I’m aware that’s a tall order lol

Skyhammer is a map that is hated by pretty much all real pvp minded players.

Generally people who would otherwise cheat/hack, buy rating boosts or play the scummiest fotm class or comps tend like this map. Instead of properly learning how to pvp they need shortcuts like giant lazerbeams or other mechanics that one shot opponents.

It has nothing to do with awareness or learning how to play this map. I know kitten well how to play it. Being succesfull at this =/= enjoying it.

Lets imagine they created a new class that has only 1 abbilitie, but that abbilitie will one shot you. A class like that will never be fun in my eyes; not to play with and not to play against.

Same applies to skyhammer.

You think we haven’t done it? There were countless suggestion of how to make that map less frustrating and less favored by engis. 0 response, 0 changes, in fact any kind of feedback about that map got dumped into trash can named “Skyhammer [merged]”, yeah let’s show some respect heh.

Leadfoot.9071:

Look at some of the responses to dev posts – can you really blame them?

Honestly? Yes.

It would be one thing if they just ignored this room entirely. Bad, but at least they couldn’t be accused of ignoring this issue.

But there was a long, LONG thread about Skyhammer up for weeks. The one Cynz mentioned. It had, literally, dozens of perfectly polite and reasonable comments/complaints/suggestions about this map. And zero responses.

Meanwhile there were Arenanet employees responding to other threads, in some cases within just an hour or two of them being posted.

Doesn’t that kind of suggest that they are avoiding this issue for whatever reason?

If they like it the way it is and want it in solo queue, fine, at least tell us so we can stop wasting our breath and decide if we want to keep doing solo PvP or not. It’s pretty simple stuff.

EDIT: Seems Allie has actually responded on this now, finally! So I’m grateful for that (even if I think leaving it in solo queue due to a “lack of evidence” is a bit weak).

skyhammer best map ever! So entertaining cuz… of all the haters raging when they die =]

Lets be honest about it. GW2s pvp flopped incredibly hard. It pulls less numbers than my Age of Mythology private server atm. A game that was launched ten years ago.

One of the main reasons why it flopped so hard was lack of depth. Specific classes/builds are far to simplistic for a competetive pvp game. Where combat in good pvp games is about setting up kills, killing someone in this game is often done in 2-3 button presses max.

A good example is a condi warrior who can use two poorly telegraphed ranged abbilities that will kill someone if they dont cleanse it fast enough.

Skyhammer makes the situation even worse. Where the oversimplistic classes were bad enough allready they added the possibilitie to one shot someone via map specific mechanics.

play decap engineer/ fear necro -> calibrate the hammer -> nuke everything to death and occasionally fear/launch people off the platform (if stab, rip it) -> win -> repeat.

zZz

i see no competition in ignoring every game mechanic except boonrip and cc.

while i have to say, that i occasionally play skyham in hotjoin, just for teh lolz of kicking people around i have also the urge to point out that there is a very good reason for this map (as well as the shiny-bubble-running-map) not to be in teamq and it also should vanish from soloq (those maps are the #1 reason i don’t play soloq anymore).

it’s a fun map, no question, but it’s not suited for srs pvp.

Leadfoot.9071:

Qaelyn.7612:

Well that one event was anecdotal, but I consistently see fewer players on Skyhammer maps than others.

there also may be some confirmation bias involved.

There’s definitely confirmation bias involved to some degree.

Qaelyn.7612:

Leadfoot.9071:

Look at some of the responses to dev posts – can you really blame them?

Doesn’t that kind of suggest that they are avoiding this issue for whatever reason?

That would be one way of looking at it but not necessarily the case. Looking at it in a more positive/optimistic light you could say that they might be doing some in depth analysis, looking at real data, and trying to come to a conclusion with a solid plan for improvement prior to making any statements on the forum that are likely to enrage people one way or the other – considering this issue in particular is such a hot button issue.

Honestly I agree with “The Sober Ninja” I like this map. Yes there are better maps as in Foefire like Liewec mentioned. I even have some bad runs like everyone else in solo queue in Skyhammer. However that being said I don’t believe this map is a bad idea. This map is broken currently IMO because of balance issues and lack of Stability by some classes. As someone said above poor specs and play lead to horrible play on this map. Yes just like all the cry babies I hate being pulled, pushed or feared of the edge. But about half the time thats on my poor choice of positioning or sometimes its the lack of stability my class or spec has. Before all the classes that have these tricks to get you off side of the map it wasn’t as frustrating as it is now because no one specced for it, I don’t blame the map I blame some of the other issues mentioned above.

Personally I would like to see the map stay in the rotation its in but I would like to see some changes to the map.

1. I would increase the time a few seconds that the glass breaks on the floor. This would prevent every thief and Engineer from grabbing you and pulling you to that spot on the floor with no time to react. This increase in time would give everyone a chance to roll or move off the point before it breaks.

2. I also think that the cannon’s blast should be dodged. This I believe would eliminate peoples hate a bit for the map.

3. Finally I would like to see some of these balance issues we have seen in other posts on the forums. Not only will they make this map better but all the maps better.

Listen, there is a lot of pride in this map as you can see by the video a few weeks back about pvp maps. They spent the whole time talking about creating Skyhammer and how proud they where of the map. To me that means its not going anywhere. So I suggest that we talk about how we can help these guys improve the map instead of getting rid of it. Because face it this map isn’t not going anywhere.

Long Live Skyhammer!
and……………….
I can’t wait for the new maps shown recently. Looks exciting.

Qaelyn.7612:

As just one more indicator, go look at the hotjoin servers. Most of the ones rotated to Skyhammer have fewer players than other maps. I’ve watched half the people leave a full hotjoin server when Skyhammer comes into the rotation.

If we are using hotjoin to support competitive topics, so be it. I have seen Server 001~003 going up to 20/20 when it is Skyhammer, and down to 9/20 when it is Kyhlo. Next!

Liam McColgan.7689:

- Lord is worth 150 points and only ever used as a do or die comeback mechanic

It is also used as a do or die all-in mechanic when both teams are in any 300:300 tug of war. Your argument of it being only a comeback method is flawed

Liam McColgan.7689:

-kylo treb can be destroyed, so no one complains

The hammer can be calibrated. If you hate Armageddon raining on you, make it rain on them. No one complains about a Skyhammer on their side.

Liam McColgan.7689:

- In Nifihel no one goes for monsters in high rated pvp unless you absolutely can, capping nodes is of a much MUCH greater priority

So~~~should we remove Svanir/Chieftain from the map because espahts?

Liam McColgan.7689:

- Capricorn is bad design and promotes tunnel vision zerging and the underwater part…i think this is why is IS NOT in solo queue OR team queue

Agreed. And I see neither tunnel vision zerging nor underwater combat in Skyhammer.

Liam McColgan.7689:

-Spirit, again IS NOT IN team queue for a reason

The developers promised they will update Spirit Watch in the future. They said the same about Skyhammer. As long as Spirit Watch remains in the SoloQ, Skyhammer rightfully can stay.

Liam McColgan.7689:

-Temple buff timers are very good for strategic play

Skyhammer jump pads are also good for strategic positioning. In fact, every map we discussed so far (except Capricorn) have strategic positioning in them. For example on the Temple you will want to face the hole when you are capturing Stillness so you don’t get knocked down into the hole.

Ferik.3127:

The hammer can be calibrated. If you hate Armageddon raining on you, make it rain on them.

And that’s what the entire match becomes about — fighting over the hammer. And what’s involved in fighting over the hammer? Mostly, knocking/fearing/yanking people to their deaths.

Everything else becomes secondary or completely unimportant.

That’s the entire complaint about this map, but you act like it’s not a big deal. So either you don’t even understand what people dislike, or you’re just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Ferik.3127:

No one complains about a Skyhammer on their side.

“No one”? How arrogant.

I guess I’m “no one” because I don’t like it on my side either. On the rare occasion where I actually have a decent fight going on a point, suddenly my opponent either leaves or gets hit for 10k damage from the sky.

That’s fun?

Some people don’t play only to rack up wins, believe it or not.

It’s funny, when in solo queue, everyone logs onto their engineer when this map pops.

My stealth pulls and knock backs are clearly skillful and anyone I knock/pull off the map are terrible players. It’s amazing how much more skillful I am than other people, but oddly enough it is only when I play a profession that is tailor made for this map.

Ferik.3127:

The hammer can be calibrated. If you hate Armageddon raining on you, make it rain on them. No one complains about a Skyhammer on their side.

I am one of those thieves running around and yanking ppl into holes. I hate that map with passion since instead of actually pvping i am forced to sit all day and wait for stealth + scorp wire. Surely, i could try to fight enemies like on any other map but it would be just gimping yourself i would mostlikely end up dying to hammer anyway since you can’t even dodge that crap.

This map should be an activity event like crab toss and not tournament map.

If you have problem with this map you should learn to adapt your game.
It’s like 90% of the solo q games I’ve played…I have no idea what the other nine people on the board are going to do. So, I make the best tactical decision I can for my current situation (Which includes running from a 1v3 kinda like when I run from the big red circle when I hear “Stand still, experiment incoming.”)

Just delete that map for the love of god! listen to the majority!

Well i don’t even know why we waste time with this theads . . . anet listens less every day.

Qaelyn.7612:

Ferik.3127:

The hammer can be calibrated. If you hate Armageddon raining on you, make it rain on them.

And that’s what the entire match becomes about — fighting over the hammer. And what’s involved in fighting over the hammer? Mostly, knocking/fearing/yanking people to their deaths.

Everything else becomes secondary or completely unimportant.

That’s the entire complaint about this map, but you act like it’s not a big deal. So either you don’t even understand what people dislike, or you’re just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Ferik.3127:

No one complains about a Skyhammer on their side.

“No one”? How arrogant.

I guess I’m “no one” because I don’t like it on my side either. On the rare occasion where I actually have a decent fight going on a point, suddenly my opponent either leaves or gets hit for 10k damage from the sky.

That’s fun?

Some people don’t play only to rack up wins, believe it or not.

On a side note, I appreciate your willingness to debate and not calling us trolls, which a lot of protesters eventually resort to.

However, disagreed. The cannon is a complement to DPS and point control, and traditional PvP skills are still the major factor on Skyhammer. Shooting people with the cannon does not get you scores. Capturing points and holding them does.

In my limited history of SoloQ, teams that commit more than 2 people to grab the hammer usually become too split to react to any node capturing going down there, thereby having the hammer in firm control but losing the game.

If your team has 2 people on hammer (1 shooter, 1 protecting him/her), you are left with only 3 people to capture A, B, or C. The opponent team would have 5 people concentrate on capping since they could just give up hammer at this point.

Ferik.3127:

However, disagreed. The cannon is a complement to DPS and point control, and traditional PvP skills are still the major factor on Skyhammer. Shooting people with the cannon does not get you scores. Capturing points and holding them does.

Nice in theory, but wrong in practice, because the damage done by the hammer causes it to dominate any point fight where it is focused.

I have played a few dozen Skyhammer matches in hotjoin and solo queue:
- I cannot recall a single instance where I was able to capture a point when the enemy had the hammer trained on it.
- I cannot recall a single instance where I was UNable to capture a point when an ally had the hammer trained on it.

The hammer is too strong and fires too frequently in a wide area, requires no aiming skill, and can be repositioned in a few seconds. It makes actual PvP skill in capturing points largely irrelevant, so the only PvP that really goes on most of the time is capturing the hammer itself. And that’s 90% a cheese fight that depends on whom you were (un)lucky enough to get paired with.

On a rare occasion you can get an actual fight on a point for a while. But it usually ends either with some cheeseball breaking-glass move or the hammer being moved to it. Because it’s just too easy to do (compared to something like the treb on Kyhlo.)

Ferik.3127:

In my limited history of SoloQ, teams that commit more than 2 people to grab the hammer usually become too split to react to any node capturing going down there, thereby having the hammer in firm control but losing the game.

This (sometimes) happens IF you actually NEED two people to hold the hammer. But because the hammer is so important, you usually have 1 or 2 people on the other team also trying to capture it, so the 3v5 scenario you portray again doesn’t happen in practice.

If the other team isn’t challenging the hammer, then it’s 1 guy spamming 10k AoE uncounterable death all over a point more than supporting a 4v5. I’ve never lost such a match, nor won one where the enemy did it.

And the real problem is that some classes don’t need 2 people to hold the hammer, but can require 2 opponents to get them off. The map exaggerates differences among the professions by overvaluing certain CC effects and making other classes/builds all but useless.

Liam McColgan.7689:

one shot/ unavoidable mechanic when trying to cap a point.

it takes NO skill to knock someone off/pull them off the skyhammer…it just benefits the classes with more cc/more stability.

Simple answer: If you’re letting someone pull ro psh you off, it’s your own mistake. Dodge/stability/stunbreak… All professions have something to easily counterplay pulls and pushes. Also, theres like a 2 second delay before glasses shatter.

There’s no good argument you, or anyone else can make to see pulls as “unavoidable instakill”

Alissah.9281:

All professions have something to easily counterplay pulls and pushes.

No, they don’t. Remove “easily” and maybe you have an argument, but even there it’s dubious, ignoring the massive differences in the tools available for dealing with CC effects.

These “L2P” style posts are incredibly frustrating in the way they deliberately oversimplify reality and misrepresent what actually happens in Skyhammer matches.

PSILO.4068:

If you have problem with this map you should learn to adapt your game.

Some people play games for fun, not just to win.
Surprise, surprise.

I’m not bashing adapting.
I am bashing Anets choice to randomly chuck an ‘adapt to this specific controversial game style or kitten off’ at players.
SoloQ should either have been more like other games’ que system (pick the maps you want) or not include a map like skyhammer

I’m not saying skyhammer is an unworkable map for GW2… just that it shouldn’t be in the mandatory soloQ rotation.
Skyhammer is not that kind of map.

For most people… you have to be playing a specific type of spec to really get much enjoyment out of skyhammer, you have to be in a certain mindset to really find the kitten entertaining.
Throwing a map like that constantly at the PvP playerbase is only asking for people to be kittened off at it.

Skyhammer is a skilled map. That’s why I pull the skilled players to their death from stealth.

i just had
spirit watch
spirit watch
spirit watch
skyhammer
skyhammer
skyhammer
in soloq

what’s up rng? where are other maps :/ ?

Google the validity effect — The more people read that skyhammer sucks the more people will believe it.

poor positioning haha. That is a good one. When in the cannon room u cant even see what u r doing, espicially vs a spirit ranger, mesmer or minion master. Same goes for clock tower on khylo.

Hey play a necromancer with near to 0 stability and say this map is great lol

OP = thief

nuff said

TheDevice.2751:

Hey play a necromancer with near to 0 stability and say this map is great lol

OP = thief

nuff said

Doesn’t Plague (or one of those other transform skills) give Necros one of the longest lasting stability durations in game?

Also, Necros have a pile of fears, and as far as skyhammer is concerned, I think that offsets any stability issues.

Spirit watch and that kittening orb is the worst imo, much worse than skyhammer.

TheDevice.2751:

Hey play a necromancer with near to 0 stability and say this map is great lol.

What will stability do to anyone if i pull them from stealth. Good luck quessing when to use stab or dodge when you dont see me coming.

Within range off a glass panel = 100% dead.

Even if youre the best player in the world with the most amazing reaction time. Stunnbreakers dont break my magnet pull and the second you are pulled the glass breaks and youre dead on the floor.

Skyhammer is frustrating and people don’t like being frustrated, that’s all.

Foefire is, in fact, one of the most forgiving maps in terms of general play.

Let’s take a look at it:

• The middle point is gigantic, so you can be extremely safe on it.
• No match is completely lost because you can still win killing the lord.
• The fences around waterfall prevents decappers from taking it.
• The ledges around middle allows condi spammers to do their job safely.
• The ledges provides also vertical escapes to thieves and anyone provied with blinks.

It is so forgiving as a map that anyone likes it.

Now look at skyhammer:

• A single knockback/pull can kill you
• A well timed dodge makes the difference between life and death
• Holding the skyhammer provides incredible power to the team holding it
• A skyhammer hit pretty much one-shots squishies like elementalists or thieves
• Map and position awareness is crucial to surviving
• The hammer room is so tight that it is extremely risky engaging in there

Sometimes, when something is too hard and unforgiving, it ends up being frustrating like skyhammer is, so most people ends up raging at it and blaming the map.

Still, I don’t think Skyhammer is a good map, since a map in a game should never be so unforgiving to the point of being frustrating playing it.
I don’t think that it is a skill-less and an uncompetitive map, though, as most people here seem to think.

Locuz.2651:

TheDevice.2751:

Hey play a necromancer with near to 0 stability and say this map is great lol.

What will stability do to anyone if i pull them from stealth. Good luck quessing when to use stab or dodge when you dont see me coming.

Within range off a glass panel = 100% dead.

Even if youre the best player in the world with the most amazing reaction time. Stunnbreakers dont break my magnet pull and the second you are pulled the glass breaks and youre dead on the floor.

You can see the glass flicker, even when people are stealth. Dead give away.

Liam McColgan.7689:

Are you a hotjoin hero?

- Lord is worth 150 points and only ever used as a do or die comeback mechanic
-kylo treb can be destroyed, so no one complains
- In Nifihel no one goes for monsters in high rated pvp unless you absolutely can, capping nodes is of a much MUCH greater priority
- Capricorn is bad design and promotes tunnel vision zerging and the underwater part…i think this is why is IS NOT in solo queue OR team queue
-Spirit, again IS NOT IN team queue for a reason
-Temple buff timers are very good for strategic play

I’ve come to the conclusion i HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR POINT IS!?

You listed different map mechanics to somehow justify skyhammer? Skyhammer IS different to every other map because it is so class bias and has a one shot/ unavoidable mechanic when trying to cap a point.

I’m fed up of people saying L2P…it takes NO skill to knock someone off/pull them off the skyhammer…it just benefits the classes with more cc/more stability.

I’m sorry but you are going to get so much slack incomming for your pointless argument I have warned you!

A “do or die comback mechanic” is still a viable mechanic. I’ve won upwards of 50 tournies off Lord alone.
Treb can be destroyed: Portal Repair dominates Khylo. It constantly pulls an enemy team member off a control point to kill (attempt to) the treb. Most of the time, unsuccessfully.
In Niflhel, if your team isn’t concerned with hunts, you lose. Unless you’re facing bads. In my experience… a good thief that is hunt conscious wins games, hands down. (Before you call me a hotjoin hero… I have 617 tourney wins @ Rank 51.)
Capricorn is a bad design and promotes zerging? Yea… because it’s only available in sPvP. The only reason it’s not in tournies… is because people would QQ too hard about underwater combat… kitten kitten .
Temple: Z-Axis can be manipulated similarly to Skyhammer @ Stillness. A necro can actually fall down to lure followers for a kill and pop back up. That’s broken.

Skyhammer is not my favorite map, by any means, but I agree with the OP. If you’re bad at positioning, you’ll hate Skyhammer. People always talk about how they want different objectives and map variation. Anet gave you a map on which to utilize a different play-style focused on positioning and controls.

The only negative thing about Skyhammer at the moment… is the lack of trait and equipment templates to allow for a quick rework of builds to play according to your environment. The same goes for Capricorn. With a template system, you could easily trait to cater to an underwater (partially or fully) build. Once (if) we get a template system… I’d really like to see a completely underwater PvP map… I think it would really make an interesting twist to a map rotation.