Guild Wars 2

So as someone that has played ranked exclusively for the last years and is now forced into unranked I want to give some comments on these 2 maps. Personally I never vote them and I am upset when I still get them but the thing is I actually like them from a diversity point of view.

I just wish these 2 maps were part of the rotation to pick from but actually on the same competitive level as the rest of the maps.

Skyhammer

• the major secondary mechanic (the hammer) basically became useless, you can literally fight 5on4 the whole game while getting hammered, it is still a major advantage and if you know how to dodge the skyhammer players achieves absolutely nothing
• there is still really gimicky stealth pulling going on that is incredibly punishing and also unfair since it ocasionally straight out wins you fights

Skyhammer Fixes

• now this is a very experimental suggestion that I made a few times before but please arenanet explore what enabling gliders and updrafts (latter placed strategically) would do to this map, the extremely punishing deathpull would become a “glide to nearest updraft and enter fight again” but still reward the person that applied the CC because it removes the gliding player out of battle for a couple of sec anyway (but less than if he would have to respawn)
• with this implementation there obviously would have to be som additional thoughts to be made: can gliders even be attacked? how can we stop people from just jumping of and glide to escape certain death in a legit fight? My point is please explore the possibility Anet, test it!
• also Skyhammer Cannon should do 30% less damage but have 50% less cooldown to make it punishing and less dodgable again

Spiritwatch

• again some gimicky abuses on how to orbrun really fast exist
• beside that the map has an interesting layout and I actually think it would work like a normal map without the orb mechanic just fine

Spiritwatch Fixes

• gradually lower the impact of the orb as an objective, that means lower the point gain
• might aswell just make it a way to instantly decap without awarding any further point, would still be a great tool to debunk people initially

Feel free to post your opinion as long as it is constructive. Please no “just remove skyhammer”. Everything can be fixed with enough effort and I think visually those maps are stunning so it is kind of a waste (not even touching that it is much harder to create 2 completely new maps and these are also likely to be flawed/unbalanced for competitive play). Please Anet fix these maps! You gave up way too fast in my opinion.

I don’t think your skyhammer cooldown idea is going to be very kind, the massive knockdown on skyhammer already forces you to dodge or lose, assuming the person on hammer is actually firing it somewhere useful. Now your usage of the side is very interesting, however. I think it would have to be an invuln area to prevent ranged classes from having a massive advantage over melee builds, but obviously this brings some proviso that makes jumping deliberately less of an advantage. Perhaps you could be invuln but also have skill cooldown disabled? That would seem an adequate penalty to stop jumping off the side but not be the equivalent of a kill, assuming it takes 2-3 seconds to get back on the ground.

Re spiritwatch, all that it needs is disabling gimmicky abuses to make grabbing the orb the penalty it is meant to be.

I don’t think the massive knockdown that only occurs if you run out of dodges justifies putting your team into a 4on5. Not at all. Reduce the knockdown time aswell then but I believe decreasing the cooldown is absolutely the way to go with skyhammer.

Spirit watch needs two things to fix it: Decrease the spawning of the orb. The rate it spawns makes it really hard for uncoordinated teams (solo queue) to play effectively.
Set it to spawn 3 times a game (at set time intervals) for 50 points each and it would be a solid map. Then all you have to do is fix the ability for certain classes to run the orb easily.

Disagree with OPs suggested fixes

Skyhammer
This map has potential and could even see ranked play if given proper fixes.

• Make skyhammer undodgeable again. Give it a slightly longer cooldown between shots and turn between points slower. This forces enemies off points that it’kittenting, but remains reasonably avoidable.
• Side nodes areas need to be expanded and the breakable glass moved away from the point slightly. Remove the half-panel at the side nodes. Right now they heavily favor close quarters combat builds and it’s really hard for a ranged build to kite effectively.
• Expand the cannon room and move it above the middle plateau at a lower height. The room is too cramped and it becomes too gimmicky due to the small size. Getting knocked off should hurt, but not be so punishing. Taking moderate fall damage and being somewhat out of position is good enough.

Spirit Watch
This map can’t be salvaged. It’s the worst conquest map by far.

• The orb only helps teams which are ahead get more ahead. The restrictions for it make little sense (you can use superspeed and leaps/rushes, but no teleport, regardless of distance and needing a target). Making it more of a decap mechanic would be a huge step in the right direction, since it would then help the team which is behind.
• The map layout is poor. The node areas don’t provide much cover, the stairs wreak havoc on range abilities which don’t have a z-axis, the middle node doesn’t offer a good vantage point for incoming enemies, and the spawn gates funnel teams into a mess at middle.

Exedore.6320:

Disagree with OPs suggested fixes

Skyhammer
This map has potential and could even see ranked play if given proper fixes.

• Make skyhammer undodgeable again. Give it a slightly longer cooldown between shots and turn between points slower. This forces enemies off points that it’kittenting, but remains reasonably avoidable.
• Side nodes areas need to be expanded and the breakable glass moved away from the point slightly. Remove the half-panel at the side nodes. Right now they heavily favor close quarters combat builds and it’s really hard for a ranged build to kite effectively.
• Expand the cannon room and move it above the middle plateau at a lower height. The room is too cramped and it becomes too gimmicky due to the small size. Getting knocked off should hurt, but not be so punishing. Taking moderate fall damage and being somewhat out of position is good enough.

Spirit Watch
This map can’t be salvaged. It’s the worst conquest map by far.

• The orb only helps teams which are ahead get more ahead. The restrictions for it make little sense (you can use superspeed and leaps/rushes, but no teleport, regardless of distance and needing a target). Making it more of a decap mechanic would be a huge step in the right direction, since it would then help the team which is behind.
• The map layout is poor. The node areas don’t provide much cover, the stairs wreak havoc on range abilities which don’t have a z-axis, the middle node doesn’t offer a good vantage point for incoming enemies, and the spawn gates funnel teams into a mess at middle.

What makes you think it cannot be salvaged/improved? The layout is not bad even if different compared to the other maps. Don’t forget that you have a very fast extremely safe route to the close cp with the alternate base exit. The only thing the enemy could potentially try to wall you away from is raven but even there you don’t have to move straight through the middle but can go up the little path ways on the side when exiting base (or just also go via close which honestly doesn’t take much longer).

I like the idea of spawning the orb a set amount of times per game but “just fix the orb running abuse abilities” sounds easier than it is. To the point that it is almost impossible imo. Forbidding teleports makes sense due to the vertical layout of the map which makes the distance you can close with them kind of extreme. But leaps/superspeed will just exist and that is fine imo. This is why I suggested not rewarding any points when delivering the orb. Making it a decap mechanic alone is very strong and would actually be some kind of anti snowball mechanic.

For side nodes, they just need to add a platform underneath the point and 2 sets of stairs on either side to get back up to the node. The platform can be far enough down that you take some damage, but not kill you.

Dojo.1867:

What makes you think it cannot be salvaged/improved? The layout is not bad even if different compared to the other maps. Don’t forget that you have a very fast extremely safe route to the close cp with the alternate base exit. The only thing the enemy could potentially try to wall you away from is raven but even there you don’t have to move straight through the middle but can go up the little path ways on the side when exiting base (or just also go via close which honestly doesn’t take much longer).

I like the idea of spawning the orb a set amount of times per game but “just fix the orb running abuse abilities” sounds easier than it is. To the point that it is almost impossible imo. Forbidding teleports makes sense due to the vertical layout of the map which makes the distance you can close with them kind of extreme. But leaps/superspeed will just exist and that is fine imo. This is why I suggested not rewarding any points when delivering the orb. Making it a decap mechanic alone is very strong and would actually be some kind of anti snowball mechanic.

The orb needs to be a transform and the player characters gets an entire new skill bar (including skills,heal,utility, and elite).

I actually agree with the fact that I like spirit watch map. I mostly dislike the orb mechanics.

There is a clear lack of coherency for what skills you can use while carrying the orb. Why reward the passive 25% speed but not the active swiftness? For the leaps vs teleport I believe the difference is that leaps are often attacks and thus preventing them also prevents the player from fighting. But this is somewhat unfair.

I think decreasing the rate of the orb makes sense. Alternatively (or both) make so that the orb on a capped point is 30 points, on a uncapped point 15 and on a enemy point 0 but decaps. This way, you still have to play the cap game and cannot put everything on the orb.

I’ be interested in seeing how spirit watch would play out if they replaced the orb with a 4th node in its place.

I actually don’t mind skyhammer, it’s like kyhlo except it favors classes with knockback/fear/push cc’s over people with teleports. Not my favorite map but I can deal with it.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Dojo.1867:

What makes you think it cannot be salvaged/improved? The layout is not bad even if different compared to the other maps. Don’t forget that you have a very fast extremely safe route to the close cp with the alternate base exit. The only thing the enemy could potentially try to wall you away from is raven but even there you don’t have to move straight through the middle but can go up the little path ways on the side when exiting base (or just also go via close which honestly doesn’t take much longer).

I like the idea of spawning the orb a set amount of times per game but “just fix the orb running abuse abilities” sounds easier than it is. To the point that it is almost impossible imo. Forbidding teleports makes sense due to the vertical layout of the map which makes the distance you can close with them kind of extreme. But leaps/superspeed will just exist and that is fine imo. This is why I suggested not rewarding any points when delivering the orb. Making it a decap mechanic alone is very strong and would actually be some kind of anti snowball mechanic.

The orb needs to be a transform and the player characters gets an entire new skill bar (including skills,heal,utility, and elite).

That would work from the competitive side but it will make the game unfun for casuals. Peoples want to play the character they picked – nobody would orb run.

i’m not too bothered about spirit watch, but Failhammer should not be in the unranked rotation, Campyard needs removing too.

it utterly sucks when 7 people unanimously vote for a DECENT map but that one guy playing a troll engi or terrormancer picks Failhammer, you know it will always be picked…

the selection should be weighted in a way that one player can not ruin fifteen minutes for seven others by picking the abomination that should have never made it to live servers.

Dojo.1867:

What makes you think it cannot be salvaged/improved? The layout is not bad even if different compared to the other maps.

The layout is awful compared to every other conquest map.

Here are the problems:

• You can zone out the entire map from a vantage point at the side nodes. Because both entrances to the mid node go through middle, it’s easy to react and keep enemies without nodes for far too long.
• In a more even match, it’s near impossible to hold the middle node because you can’t scout both sides without allowing a decap. In high-level play, you need to call enemy movements to your team as soon as possible.
• The stairs and ramps break a lot of ability which move parallel to the ground, and this map has quite a lot of them.
• The nodes areas provide almost no cover against ranged attackers.
• Similarly, the platforms heavily favor long range while making it hard for melee to reach those enemies before they can move.
• Cross map play is hard to pull off because of the huge open middle area.
• PUGs often get stuck fighting in the orb area because of the exit design.

To me there are some very easy fixes,

Spirit watch-
1) Make the orb a timed object. So at 14:30 and 11:30 etc etc every 3 minutes. Also make the orb 50 pts so there worth something yet it can be coordinated for team play.

2) By grabbing the orb you get set skills. Players cant use weapon or utility skills, its a orb skill. 1 speed skill, 1 defense etc etc etc

3) Move the orb to the top point cap and the top point cap to where the orb is. This creates quick fights and quick decision making for teams. Also it makes it easier for newer players running the orb to 2 quick side paths. Alot of new players run to mid since its there team color without thinking of where there team mates are and so forth.

Spirit watch is a great map and i think these things fix it all.

Sky hammer to me is fine the way it is, it just requires a different build like a court yard. People tend to struggle since they dont like changing there build or say they dont have enough time.