Guild Wars 2

It’s great and vindicating that Skyhammer is now out of tournament rotation, but I think the playerbase really needs an explanation for how such a terrible map got through the QA process and straight into the tournament rotation in the first place.

This gives me very little faith in ArenaNet’s vision for Guild Wars 2 as an e-sport.

I hope that, at the very least, this humbles overzealous developers in the future.

That’s what I was thinking.

Lopez.7369:

It’s great and vindicating that Skyhammer is now out of tournament rotation, but I think the playerbase really needs an explanation for how such a terrible map got through the QA process and straight into the tournament rotation in the first place.

This gives me very little faith in ArenaNet’s vision for Guild Wars 2 as an e-sport.

I hope that, at the very least, this humbles overzealous developers in the future.

You must have missed this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-skyhammer-pvp-map/ and here is a key quote that shows you how they got into this mess.

“We’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback from our playtesters,” Bearce says. “Pretty much as soon as we threw this in for testing, our internal playtesters said, ‘This has to go on Live.’”

Claypool adds, “People who have played this map already have been more excited about playing PvP. Skyhammer has a really dynamic, old-school feel; like a Quake map.”

The real question becomes who are these playtesters and why are they still allowed to be playtesters? To support ANet a little here, but if your testing shows positive feedback you would be expecting positive feedback when released; however, this shows whatever method they have for selecting playtesters or conducting playtesting is very flawed and should be reevaluated.

Seems people can’t learn to play. Too many 1 v 1 s and 1 v 2s on maps like Spirit Watch and Skyhammer I guess. RIP the best of the maps. These secondary mechanics really change the games up. No longer can players just focus on holding points and killing players but have to actually fight off point over a cannon or an orb. These are the things that make the game interesting. Hopefully more valuable secondary mechanics can enter the game unlike kyhlo, forest, and foefire.

Akkuma.2501:

Lopez.7369:

It’s great and vindicating that Skyhammer is now out of tournament rotation, but I think the playerbase really needs an explanation for how such a terrible map got through the QA process and straight into the tournament rotation in the first place.

This gives me very little faith in ArenaNet’s vision for Guild Wars 2 as an e-sport.

I hope that, at the very least, this humbles overzealous developers in the future.

You must have missed this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-skyhammer-pvp-map/ and here is a key quote that shows you how they got into this mess.

“We’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback from our playtesters,” Bearce says. “Pretty much as soon as we threw this in for testing, our internal playtesters said, ‘This has to go on Live.’”

Claypool adds, “People who have played this map already have been more excited about playing PvP. Skyhammer has a really dynamic, old-school feel; like a Quake map.”

The real question becomes who are these playtesters and why are they still allowed to be playtesters? To support ANet a little here, but if your testing shows positive feedback you would be expecting positive feedback when released; however, this shows whatever method they have for selecting playtesters or conducting playtesting is very flawed and should be reevaluated.

Wow. It seems like they actually knew all the problems the map would create, but they actually saw the problems as positives. That shows a fundamental division between the testers and the actual competitive PvP community. Extremely troubling.

Lopez.7369:

Akkuma.2501:

Lopez.7369:

It’s great and vindicating that Skyhammer is now out of tournament rotation, but I think the playerbase really needs an explanation for how such a terrible map got through the QA process and straight into the tournament rotation in the first place.

This gives me very little faith in ArenaNet’s vision for Guild Wars 2 as an e-sport.

I hope that, at the very least, this humbles overzealous developers in the future.

You must have missed this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-skyhammer-pvp-map/ and here is a key quote that shows you how they got into this mess.

“We’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback from our playtesters,” Bearce says. “Pretty much as soon as we threw this in for testing, our internal playtesters said, ‘This has to go on Live.’”

Claypool adds, “People who have played this map already have been more excited about playing PvP. Skyhammer has a really dynamic, old-school feel; like a Quake map.”

The real question becomes who are these playtesters and why are they still allowed to be playtesters? To support ANet a little here, but if your testing shows positive feedback you would be expecting positive feedback when released; however, this shows whatever method they have for selecting playtesters or conducting playtesting is very flawed and should be reevaluated.

Wow. It seems like they actually knew all the problems the map would create, but they actually saw the problems as positives. That shows a fundamental division between the testers and the actual competitive PvP community. Extremely troubling.

that’s because they ARE positives.

also, to get a map tested in a tournament scenario, it gets put on tournament rotation upon release, and only later it gets pulled (if necessary). it’s the third time they’ve done this, why are people acting so surprised?

They broke the number one rule. We all know the beloved ranged, high evade professions now have to contest nodes in tight spaces where melee weapons work best and where if they evade in any old direction it maybe lethal. To boot, it actually involved that a very over used utility may need to be swapped out for,…you know…something different and appropriate for the map mechanics.

Like all other Tpvp maps, it has nodes, it has paths..so that makes it not suitable for tpvp, because you may get instakilled if you spend the entire game fighting on the edges or on top of panels.

Heaven forbid that perhaps a top tier player may have to abandon their preferred profession in favour of a more suited profession for the duration of the map rotation.

This how you make teams work. Coaches know who their pressure players are, who their wet weather players are etc etc and field who they think is the strongest team according to the situation. To make it fair between two teams of various people, the fairness comes from that they both play on the same field and to the same rules, not by making sure each team has the exact same number of players the same height, weight and experience.

This is totally digi generation thinking. Not even one week, let alone did one month pass, or even a day pass before people QQ’ed the heck out of this map before even giving it a reasonable period of time.

Champions take on all contenders. It seems the ‘champions’ in this game believe they are above certain maps, play styles and mechanics.

I find it laughable that it is even questioned who the play testers were. Anet is part of ncsoft, you know, the people who made Aion, league of legends, city of heroes and the up coming blade and something?..I’m fairly sure they have no shortage of people in staff who play games. You know, people who not only play games, they make them as well…if that is not enough to show they probably understand gaming better than most, than I don’t know what will. People make it sound like they got their play testers from some school in the suburbs where they don’t have the internet. They gave PvP a new map, they didn’t lay down their C.V to be scrutinized by various 18-27 year old’s who think they know better.

I like how these guys played games like quake, that’s probably why I love this map because I’m an old school quake1 player. This map feels more like Quake3 though because it has pits, and I hated pits in quake3 but I didn’t whine, I got used to them also and moreso the jumper pads. But its not kittening hard to get used to falling in the pit and jumper pads, people just too stubborn to adapt to them in gw2. btw I liked quake1 better than 2 3 4 because 1 has a better theme and its the competitive game I grew up on. Also that grappling hook, nothing beats it and no other game has it because they all dumb, it makes it so fast paced and fun also the rocket jumps, quake1 invented the rocket jumps. Also invented clans and guilds in games, clan wars happened a lot in the early days of quake1.

If anything is the downfall of gw2 its going to be the developers listening to the wrong people too much, very kitten ed off this map is out of the tournament selection. Just go ahead and take away all the fun from Gw2 and nobody will play it but those whiners because all the fun is gone.

uberkingkong.8041:

I like how these guys played games like quake, that’s probably why I love this map because I’m an old school quake1 player. This map feels more like Quake3 though because it has pits, and I hated pits in quake3 but I didn’t whine, I got used to them also and moreso the jumper pads. But its not kittening hard to get used to falling in the pit and jumper pads, people just too stubborn to adapt to them in gw2. btw I liked quake1 better than 2 3 4 because 1 has a better theme and its the competitive game I grew up on. Also that grappling hook, nothing beats it and no other game has it because they all dumb, it makes it so fast paced and fun also the rocket jumps, quake1 invented the rocket jumps. Also invented clans and guilds in games, clan wars happened a lot in the early days of quake1.

If anything is the downfall of gw2 its going to be the developers listening to the wrong people too much, very kitten ed off this map is out of the tournament selection. Just go ahead and take away all the fun from Gw2 and nobody will play it but those whiners because all the fun is gone.

1. Gw2 isnt a fps
2. Thank god they don’t listen to you
3. Go play it on hot join their are many skyhammer only servers

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

They broke the number one rule. We all know the beloved ranged, high evade professions now have to contest nodes in tight spaces where melee weapons work best and where if they evade in any old direction it maybe lethal. To boot, it actually involved that a very over used utility may need to be swapped out for,…you know…something different and appropriate for the map mechanics.

Like all other Tpvp maps, it has nodes, it has paths..so that makes it not suitable for tpvp, because you may get instakilled if you spend the entire game fighting on the edges or on top of panels.

Heaven forbid that perhaps a top tier player may have to abandon their preferred profession in favour of a more suited profession for the duration of the map rotation.

This how you make teams work. Coaches know who their pressure players are, who their wet weather players are etc etc and field who they think is the strongest team according to the situation. To make it fair between two teams of various people, the fairness comes from that they both play on the same field and to the same rules, not by making sure each team has the exact same number of players the same height, weight and experience.

This is totally digi generation thinking. Not even one week, let alone did one month pass, or even a day pass before people QQ’ed the heck out of this map before even giving it a reasonable period of time.

Champions take on all contenders. It seems the ‘champions’ in this game believe they are above certain maps, play styles and mechanics.

I find it laughable that it is even questioned who the play testers were. Anet is part of ncsoft, you know, the people who made Aion, league of legends, city of heroes and the up coming blade and something?..I’m fairly sure they have no shortage of people in staff who play games. You know, people who not only play games, they make them as well…if that is not enough to show they probably understand gaming better than most, than I don’t know what will. People make it sound like they got their play testers from some school in the suburbs where they don’t have the internet. They gave PvP a new map, they didn’t lay down their C.V to be scrutinized by various 18-27 year old’s who think they know better.

Instant kill mechanics would be fine IF AND ONLY IF they were extremely kittening hard to do/hit. Knocking someone off this map is extremely easy. Like today on my engi i would go to a point break the glass and use tool kit 5 magnet to pull them into the pit they would dodge so i would cancel the animation maybe shoot them a bit then bam pull them to their deaths. This map takes no skill.

Skyhammer may feel a bit like Quake map, but GW2 is no Quake and GW2 is not a FPS game. Quake did not have rocket AoE the size of a mininuke and mobility in quake is super high, there is no CC there. Mobility in GW2 compared to Quake is nearly zero and the amount of CC is off the charts. I too have played Quake series all the way from Quake 1 and in my opinion it’s still the best skill based online multiplayer game, with best weapon balance and no cheese. But this isn’t the way i want to play GW2.

Anyway it all got hopeless to me anyway, there’s just waaay too many cheap moves and cheese in this game for me to ever care about anymore… and I know they won’t change that, because obviously that’s how they imagined the whole thing and they build the game around it.

The fact that A-Net needed 4 MONTHS to create this map is just… wow, I can’t find words for this. Other developers create 10 maps in 4 months. wtf is wrong here?

SO many whiners. just because it has a little fps feel to it doesn’t mean anyone is trying to make your mmo into a fps. Chill francis.

I do think instant death mechanics are stupid in pvp. However, they’re 1000x better than having mobs in pvp.

feliscatus.1430:

SO many whiners. just because it has a little fps feel to it doesn’t mean anyone is trying to make your mmo into a fps. Chill francis.

I do think instant death mechanics are stupid in pvp. However, they’re 1000x better than having mobs in pvp.

Mabye you should leave hotjoin than and switch over to tpvp.

Oh kitten all this whiners, i cant understand how Anet keep on doin new pvp releases if EVERY time they come up with something new all this army of whiners start screaming.
Every god kitten class forum is full of people that cry “why Anet hate my class?”, oh kitten and leave the game kittens, you’re the real problem here, not the game.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The fact that A-Net needed 4 MONTHS to create this map is just… wow, I can’t find words for this. Other developers create 10 maps in 4 months. wtf is wrong here?

Do you know the ins and outs of game design? Because I don’t, and that’s why I don’t make comments like these.

Derps.7421:

Instant kill mechanics would be fine IF AND ONLY IF they were extremely kittening hard to do/hit. Knocking someone off this map is extremely easy. Like today on my engi i would go to a point break the glass and use tool kit 5 magnet to pull them into the pit they would dodge so i would cancel the animation maybe shoot them a bit then bam pull them to their deaths. This map takes no skill.

It is extremely easy only if you are extremely bad.
You don’t need to be any uber-skillz-pro player to understand that when an hole in the floor is between you and an engineer it is probably time to change position or get ready to being pulled.

Follidus.8027:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The fact that A-Net needed 4 MONTHS to create this map is just… wow, I can’t find words for this. Other developers create 10 maps in 4 months. wtf is wrong here?

Do you know the ins and outs of game design? Because I don’t, and that’s why I don’t make comments like these.

I look at other games and I can clearly see the difference in the pace of development. A-Net made maps on GW1 too (around 20), so I’m confused what’s going wrong here. That would be 20 × 4 = 80 months for all maps? So ye, I kinda ask myself why they need so long for 1 map.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I look at other games and I can clearly see the difference in the pace of development. A-Net made maps on GW1 too (around 20), so I’m confused what’s going wrong here. That would be 20 × 4 = 80 months for all maps? So ye, I kinda ask myself why they need so long for 1 map.

Have you compared the average GW1 map compared to the average GW2 map?
Probably you didn’t.

sorrow.2364:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I look at other games and I can clearly see the difference in the pace of development. A-Net made maps on GW1 too (around 20), so I’m confused what’s going wrong here. That would be 20 × 4 = 80 months for all maps? So ye, I kinda ask myself why they need so long for 1 map.

Have you compared the average GW1 map compared to the average GW2 map?
Probably you didn’t.

And still these 20 maps were available in the beginning phase of of GW1. Besides that they had to deal with HB, RA, TA, HA and many other things. In GW2 all they have to care about is conquest. Have you considered this?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I look at other games and I can clearly see the difference in the pace of development. A-Net made maps on GW1 too (around 20), so I’m confused what’s going wrong here. That would be 20 × 4 = 80 months for all maps? So ye, I kinda ask myself why they need so long for 1 map.

GW1 maps were also identical in mechanics almost to a T, effectively making just about every map a palette swap of another with a few terrain changes.

Post launch they added all of eight maps to GvG, four after the year gap between release and Factions and another four for Nightfall. It launched with twelve. HoH never saw a new map and some of the maps were terribly designed. RA/TA/CA saw like no additions either.

But if we’re going to compare every PvP format, we might as well throw in the GW2 Borderlands and EBG which are a massive map undertaking unlike a tiny PvP map (and consequently why WvW still has no new maps).

Vena.8436:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I look at other games and I can clearly see the difference in the pace of development. A-Net made maps on GW1 too (around 20), so I’m confused what’s going wrong here. That would be 20 × 4 = 80 months for all maps? So ye, I kinda ask myself why they need so long for 1 map.

GW1 maps were also identical in mechanics almost to a T, effectively making just about every map a palette swap of another with a few terrain changes.

Post launch they added all of eight maps to GvG, four after the year gap between release and Factions and another four for Nightfall. It launched with twelve. HoH never saw a new map and some of the maps were terribly designed. RA/TA/CA saw like no additions either.

But if we’re going to compare every PvP format, we might as well throw in the GW2 Borderlands and EBG which are a massive map undertaking unlike a tiny PvP map (and consequently why WvW still has no new maps).

Calm down, no need to be so defensive about this game. I’m just wondering why they need 4 months for a map, that gets thrown out after 1 day in tourament rotation. Also I’m comparing GW2 with other games, not only GW1. So take that into consideration.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Calm down, no need to be so defensive about this game. I’m just wondering why they need 4 months for a map, that gets thrown out after 1 day in tourament rotation. Also I’m comparing GW2 with other games, not only GW1. So take that into consideration.

The map is well designed, despite what you may think
Any of the GW2 map has a lot of depth that any other game has not.

Skyhammer was taken out from the rotation simply because of the massive QQ of this map coming from players who don’t want to adapt, despite the fact that this map was obviously designed to encourage different playstyles.

“Competitive players” (notice the quotation marks) played the map, realized that the playstyle is different and that this implies they have to change their build and way to play in order to not get powned and rushed to the forum saying “OMG, tis map haz no skillz, remuve tis garbuge!”. This is the sad story of Skyhammer.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Calm down, no need to be so defensive about this game. I’m just wondering why they need 4 months for a map, that gets thrown out after 1 day in tourament rotation. Also I’m comparing GW2 with other games, not only GW1. So take that into consideration.

What are you talking about? I am simply telling you GW1 history. They released a total of 8 maps in the initial two years, and then nothing after. HoH had some terribly designed, latency headache maps like Twin Spires and Relics. The courtyard was a mess of a map, and even the Hall itself was designed such that it was basically 15 minutes of standing around till everyone mad-rushed the middle. RA/TA never saw new maps aside from I think a couple added with the Zaishen change, iirc.

The Skyhammer map wasn’t made specifically by the PvP devs, it was an idea by one of the designers and was put together with PvP dev input. Despite its issues, I think it was a good idea but it just needs a bit more tweaking. Its certainly the best “game” map we have for Custom Arena fun nights or Hot Join casual play.

sorrow.2364:

kitten s.7421:

Instant kill mechanics would be fine IF AND ONLY IF they were extremely kittening hard to do/hit. Knocking someone off this map is extremely easy. Like today on my engi i would go to a point break the glass and use tool kit 5 magnet to pull them into the pit they would dodge so i would cancel the animation maybe shoot them a bit then bam pull them to their deaths. This map takes no skill.

It is extremely easy only if you are extremely bad.
You don’t need to be any uber-skillz-pro player to understand that when an hole in the floor is between you and an engineer it is probably time to change position or get ready to being pulled.

You are a kitten the map is removed go play it on hot join. This map takes no skill thats the reality. I’ll let you stay in your little dreamland were you are preforming some masterful feat when you knock someone off the map. Enjoy

I do hope Anet is gonna update the maps that aren’t in the rotation (except for capricorn then). I’d like to see skyhammer and spirit watch back in the rotation.

butch.8136:

I do hope Anet is gonna update the maps that aren’t in the rotation (except for capricorn then). I’d like to see skyhammer and spirit watch back in the rotation.

Spirit Watch keeps getting rejected in tournie play because (a.) it favors certain builds and many top teams seem to dread this, and (b.) speed hackers. Skyhammer had a similar “this map hates bunkers and meta therefore it is bad” backlash… so I wouldn’t expect Spirit Watch to show up anytime soon.

sorrow.2364:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Calm down, no need to be so defensive about this game. I’m just wondering why they need 4 months for a map, that gets thrown out after 1 day in tourament rotation. Also I’m comparing GW2 with other games, not only GW1. So take that into consideration.

The map is well designed, despite what you may think
Any of the GW2 map has a lot of depth that any other game has not.

Skyhammer was taken out from the rotation simply because of the massive QQ of this map coming from players who don’t want to adapt, despite the fact that this map was obviously designed to encourage different playstyles.

“Competitive players” (notice the quotation marks) played the map, realized that the playstyle is different and that this implies they have to change their build and way to play in order to not get powned and rushed to the forum saying “OMG, tis map haz no skillz, remuve tis garbuge!”. This is the sad story of Skyhammer

I respect your opinon. I like the map in terms of fun, but I think for a competitive environement this map is not designed, that’s my opinon. Competitive players played the map and realized that this map is different. It allows no structured teamfight, the cannon is not dodgeable and ppl have to specc on heavy CC builds. This provides mostly classes like the guardian, necro, engi and give them a huge advantage. Fights are based around CC’s and stability. The fact that I can kill ppl when I play a bunker-guard is in my eyes just silly. But as said, that’s my opinon.

Derps.7421:

You are a kitten the map is removed go play it on hot join. This map takes no skill thats the reality. I’ll let you stay in your little dreamland were you are preforming some masterful feat when you knock someone off the map. Enjoy

I like how your arguments your opinions. Seriously, come back to your cave.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I respect your opinon. I like the map in terms of fun, but I think for a competitive environement this map is not designed, that’s my opinon. Competitive players played the map and realized that this map is different. It allows no structured teamfight, the cannon is not dodgeable and ppl have to specc on heavy CC builds. This provides mostly classes like the guardian, necro, engi and give them a huge advantage. Fights are based around CC’s and stability. The fact that I can kill ppl when I play a bunker-guard is in my eyes just silly. But as said, that’s my opinon.

People have to spec into position-controlling skill, which is something that never happened in any PvP map yet. It is a breath of fresh air in a stale PvP. Even a lot of never-used skills have found an use.

This map really have everything PvP needs but, still, people thinks it shouldn’t be in the PvP rotation just because they don’t like the push off mechanic.

I’ve already pointed out in another topic that every profession is fairly strong in this map, I can give you the link if you want. Meta have not yet established, so people are still experimenting around this map, that’s why we don’t see great game variety yet.

You can’t just kill someone if you play a bunker-guardian. You can kill someone if it makes obvious mistakes. A wise and good player doesn’t just get pushed off a cliff.

I think Skyhammer would have been fine with some more tuning. Overpowered cannon that cannot be dodged? You can dodge Treb shots, so I don’t understand this. It has such a short recharge too. Maybe a little too much glass on the floor?

people are just refusing to adapt to new changes.

sad reality.

sorrow.2364:

kitten s.7421:

You are a kitten the map is removed go play it on hot join. This map takes no skill thats the reality. I’ll let you stay in your little dreamland were you are preforming some masterful feat when you knock someone off the map. Enjoy

I like how your arguments your opinions. Seriously, come back to your cave.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I respect your opinon. I like the map in terms of fun, but I think for a competitive environement this map is not designed, that’s my opinon. Competitive players played the map and realized that this map is different. It allows no structured teamfight, the cannon is not dodgeable and ppl have to specc on heavy CC builds. This provides mostly classes like the guardian, necro, engi and give them a huge advantage. Fights are based around CC’s and stability. The fact that I can kill ppl when I play a bunker-guard is in my eyes just silly. But as said, that’s my opinon.

People have to spec into position-controlling skill, which is something that never happened in any PvP map yet. It is a breath of fresh air in a stale PvP. Even a lot of never-used skills have found an use.

This map really have everything PvP needs but, still, people thinks it shouldn’t be in the PvP rotation just because they don’t like the push off mechanic.

I’ve already pointed out in another topic that every profession is fairly strong in this map, I can give you the link if you want. Meta have not yet established, so people are still experimenting around this map, that’s why we don’t see great game variety yet.

You can’t just kill someone if you play a bunker-guardian. You can kill someone if it makes obvious mistakes. A wise and good player doesn’t just get pushed off a cliff.

Sooner or later any player will get hit by my shield-push and gets an immobilize, or gets an immobilize and a banish afterwards. So no, this has just something to do if I chain my CC’s right or not. So there is no obvious mistake. Also good players get pushed off enough times, if they face good players as their opponents. So no, I guess your argument is invalid.

And in a few months: New map -> tournament -> whine -> they take it out of rotation.
This way we will get more and more hotjoin maps.

ArenaNet is mainly focused on developing hotjoin maps taking their devs time and resources and wasting them on this crap for months.

I stronly suggest to fix the problem… I already posted in other threads and in the pinned tournament rotation thread.

I really hope they are not making just another map until they get “lucky” and get one that is accepted by everyone.

They should fix the system… how the game is played. More queues… and stuff. That would fix a lot.

They will turn themselves into the laughingstock of the whole internet gaming community should they release another map that gets removed from rotation(and not even fixing and bringing other maps back or changing the system so there are more queus).

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The fact that A-Net needed 4 MONTHS to create this map is just… wow, I can’t find words for this. Other developers create 10 maps in 4 months. wtf is wrong here?

Yes… instead of doing useful stuff they waste 4 months of time on this… and I hope they won’t continue. Much other stuff to fix… and they still have 2 maps not playable(not talking about Capricorn that is really bullkitten). They should let us play them first – by adding other queues. Instead of making more maps for the trash can.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Sooner or later any player will get hit by my shield-push and gets an immobilize, or gets an immobilize and a banish afterwards. So no, this has just something to do if I chain my CC’s right or not. So there is no obvious mistake. Also good players get pushed off enough times, if they face good players as their opponents. So no, I guess your argument is invalid.

Here’s a list of mistakes you have to do to be pushed off a cliff:

- Didn’t brought a proper stunbreaker
- Had no good positioning
- Had no stability on when you was in a dangerous spot
- Didn’t pushed off the enemy first
- Didn’t prevented the CC to be applied with any sort of blocks/invulnerability/evade
- Didn’t teleported away from the ledge you fell from.

If you just avoid to make only one of those mistakes, you won’t get pushed off.
Only if you make ALL of these mistakes, you die.

Also, some professions can’t avoid to make some mistakes (for instance, thief can’t use stability), but it is compensated by the ease to avoid other mistakes (thief can teleport way more than other professions).

Good players won’t make any of these mistakes. Bad players will most likely make all of those and die.

My argument isn’t invalid.

Did you ever try to stun break an updraft? -.-
Please, you just try to defend something any half skilled player will call op.
CC is balanced in a certain way and believe it or not, it’s not meant to insta-gib someone in any situation. But when suddenly CC is able to insta-gib someone the balance of CC is getting upside down.
And if it’s so easy to avoid CC, then please tell me why EVERY good player loses his point against an engi just cause of his CC??? Do you think they want to be kicked out of the point?

sorrow.2364:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Sooner or later any player will get hit by my shield-push and gets an immobilize, or gets an immobilize and a banish afterwards. So no, this has just something to do if I chain my CC’s right or not. So there is no obvious mistake. Also good players get pushed off enough times, if they face good players as their opponents. So no, I guess your argument is invalid.

Here’s a list of mistakes you have to do to be pushed off a cliff:

- Didn’t brought a proper stunbreaker
- Had no good positioning
- Had no stability on when you was in a dangerous spot
- Didn’t pushed off the enemy first
- Didn’t prevented the CC to be applied with any sort of blocks/invulnerability/evade
- Didn’t teleported away from the ledge you fell from.

If you just avoid to make only one of those mistakes, you won’t get pushed off.
Only if you make ALL of these mistakes, you die.

Also, some professions can’t avoid to make some mistakes (for instance, thief can’t use stability), but it is compensated by the ease to avoid other mistakes (thief can teleport way more than other professions).

Good players won’t make any of these mistakes. Bad players will most likely make all of those and die.

My argument isn’t invalid.

In your opinon, if a player plays proper he never gets hit by anything. Ergo in a team of experts nobody will die. Have you even played this game allrdy? I doubt you did.

PS: Try to stunbreak out of banish or updraft. Try to evade a shield-push from engi/guard. Your argument gets instantly invalid. Now stop defending something that is broken.

i dont know why this map dont go on beta mode – it would not be hard to implement

just do this map on hotjoinbrowser with 20+ arenanet customarenas called BETA SERVER where ppl can play it and talk about

but from 0 to 100^^ sry thats doomed

Lopez.7369:

It’s great and vindicating that Skyhammer is now out of tournament rotation, but I think the playerbase really needs an explanation for how such a terrible map got through the QA process and straight into the tournament rotation in the first place.

This gives me very little faith in ArenaNet’s vision for Guild Wars 2 as an e-sport.

I hope that, at the very least, this humbles overzealous developers in the future.

Because this map can be a fun troll map to go into hotjoin and have a laugh while playing the golf minigame.
But I guess they didn’t consider how boring that would be, playing that map 10+ times in a row each day for 3 to 4 days.

Too many e-sport bellkittens in sPvP forums. This map is fun and unique.

Yeah, but I can massacre people on cannon with my hammer, without effort. Even if I can’t see what the hell is going on.

Hammer warrior used to be a hard setup: you could spam cc and you didn’t need to be mobile, but landing all your attacks was no joke. Until now.

While on the cannon, I don’t feel proud for killing people.

And mostly kills by fall are randomly obtained.

If you want this map to be enjoyable, we need to TONE DOWN PARTICLE EFFECTS first.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

In your opinon, if a player plays proper he never gets hit by anything. Ergo in a team of experts nobody will die. Have you even played this game allrdy? I doubt you did.

I didn’t said that. I’ve said that if a player plays properly he won’t be pushed off.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

PS: Try to stunbreak out of banish or updraft. Try to evade a shield-push from engi/guard. Your argument gets instantly invalid. Now stop defending something that is broken.

Banish is pretty slow and obvious. You can avoid that skill. Updraft, on the other hand, isn’t, but the blowout is far lower.
Another way to completely negate updraft, banish or whatever is just not position yourself in a line in the following order: enemy – you – cliff.

You focused on a single point of my mistake-list completely ignoring the others. You won’t proving my argument is invalid in that way.

sorrow.2364:

kitten s.7421:

You are a kitten the map is removed go play it on hot join. This map takes no skill thats the reality. I’ll let you stay in your little dreamland were you are preforming some masterful feat when you knock someone off the map. Enjoy

I like how your arguments your opinions. Seriously, come back to your cave.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

I respect your opinon. I like the map in terms of fun, but I think for a competitive environement this map is not designed, that’s my opinon. Competitive players played the map and realized that this map is different. It allows no structured teamfight, the cannon is not dodgeable and ppl have to specc on heavy CC builds. This provides mostly classes like the guardian, necro, engi and give them a huge advantage. Fights are based around CC’s and stability. The fact that I can kill ppl when I play a bunker-guard is in my eyes just silly. But as said, that’s my opinon.

People have to spec into position-controlling skill, which is something that never happened in any PvP map yet. It is a breath of fresh air in a stale PvP. Even a lot of never-used skills have found an use.

This map really have everything PvP needs but, still, people thinks it shouldn’t be in the PvP rotation just because they don’t like the push off mechanic.

I’ve already pointed out in another topic that every profession is fairly strong in this map, I can give you the link if you want. Meta have not yet established, so people are still experimenting around this map, that’s why we don’t see great game variety yet.

You can’t just kill someone if you play a bunker-guardian. You can kill someone if it makes obvious mistakes. A wise and good player doesn’t just get pushed off a cliff.

sure i can kill every one with my bunker guardian at the cannon.
the bunker guardian players are also not stupid.
i simply use my scepter/shield and hammer + sanctuary.
we played vs nag nags new team something 450/500 (we lost :P)
and i kicked down 3 of there players alone, think all of them are rly good players.
its totaly easy to kill at canon as bunker guard or get killed.
there are so many ways to kill with guardian at cannon, it makes teams use 2 bunker guards on this map.
there also many lame ways on enter portal to do.

for me, the only problem on skyhammer are the fights at the cannon and the 3 pannels at outside points maybe.
rest of the map is rly fun. well i dont like the camera on point b when i bunker, but its ok :P

oh and im sure we would never play 450/500 at any other map atm vs nag nags new team :P
skyhammer cannon fights are to random and lame after first team have win the fight there

edit: and i think there are not all classes able to use. i see no way to have a good ranger on skyhammer (no cc knock backs, only one wolf fear and at same time only stability with elite)

sorrow.2364:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

In your opinon, if a player plays proper he never gets hit by anything. Ergo in a team of experts nobody will die. Have you even played this game allrdy? I doubt you did.

I didn’t said that. I’ve said that if a player plays properly he won’t be pushed off.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

PS: Try to stunbreak out of banish or updraft. Try to evade a shield-push from engi/guard. Your argument gets instantly invalid. Now stop defending something that is broken.

Banish is pretty slow and obvious. You can avoid that skill. Updraft, on the other hand, isn’t, but the blowout is far lower.
Another way to completely negate updraft, banish or whatever is just not position yourself in a line in the following order: enemy – you – cliff.

You focused on a single point of my mistake-list completely ignoring the others. You won’t proving my argument is invalid in that way.

you overread things bro. First I’m asura, second I immobilize before I banish. Not a single player is able to get not hit once by this. So I’m sorry again to tell you, things in the higher level are a bit different than in hotjoin.
However as you deny every negative feedback on skyhammer and obviously try to claim on your “arguments” there is no point for me to discuss this even further. Luckily players are related to their ingame skill and not what BS they write. No wonder I never saw you in any competitive play. Have a nice life, my son!

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

you overread things bro. First I’m asura, second I immobilize before I banish. Not a single player is able to get not hit once by this. So I’m sorry again to tell you, things in the higher level are a bit different than in hotjoin.
However as you deny every negative feedback on skyhammer and obviously try to claim on your “arguments” there is no point for me to discuss this even further. Luckily players are related to their ingame skill and not what BS they write. No wonder I never saw you in any competitive play. Have a nice life, my son!

Wow. In tPvP, the home of all wannabe pro players and Empathetic Fighter, can’t realize that once you get immobilized by an hammer guardian and he takes the “warning” said positioning, you probably want to avoid the next skill the guardian would use. Definitely something high level PvP-er can’t do.

I’ve never saw you in any competitive game too. Does it mean that I should call everything you say as bs?

oh, but much ppls know the guild BooN and the guardian Empathetic Fighter on eu servers. just dont have see them much last time Oo
but its a good guardian, so :P

Oidmetala.8426:

oh, but much ppls know the guild BooN and the guardian Empathetic Fighter on eu servers. just dont have see them much last time Oo
but its a good guardian, so :P

It was just to point out thakittens way to think is completely stupid and wrong.
Calling BS everything someone says just because you don’t know him isn’t something a mature and intelligent person would do.

sorrow.2364:

Banish is pretty slow and obvious. You can avoid that skill. Updraft, on the other hand, isn’t, but the blowout is far lower.
Another way to completely negate updraft, banish or whatever is just not position yourself in a line in the following order: enemy – you – cliff.

You focused on a single point of my mistake-list completely ignoring the others. You won’t proving my argument is invalid in that way.

Shield of Absorbtion (instant skill, good luck dodging that, you have to rely on luck) → Scepter immobilize → swap to hammer → Banish (if you didn’t already get immobilized on the breaking glass)
Congratulations, you’ve successfully managed to kill someone as a bunker guardian, rinse and repeat when more people come up there.

Meh. I don’t think hiding in the canon room’s door arch is called skill, it’s called exploiting a map. Same thing with the nook at the canon panel. Without those small map features which I’m sure were intended to be used in that way, you’d have no way to avoid being banished or updrafted given that they rooted you somehow. Even then, if you have stability, most good players would wait it out which then becomes a battle of who has the longer stability or who can use it more well. Sad though that guards have the easiest access to stability, so it’s imbalanced.

sorrow.2364:

Oidmetala.8426:

oh, but much ppls know the guild BooN and the guardian Empathetic Fighter on eu servers. just dont have see them much last time Oo
but its a good guardian, so :P

It was just to point out thakittens way to think is completely stupid and wrong.
Calling BS everything someone says just because you don’t know him isn’t something a mature and intelligent person would do.

well but he is just right :P
at cannon fight when i whant to kill one with my BUNKER guardian,
i just have to look “ok im not blind, scepter 2 immobilize instant, switch to hammer, ok he is still immobilized and have no staby, im not blind, lets knock him to worms” just one way of easy kills on cannon fights :P
and there is no way of positioning when i fight there, when they run away to the end of area i have shield 5 and sanctuary is not used yet :P
thats just one way to kill first one, with hammer 5 i can make them much problems too on where they are able to positioning
oh and dont forget im not alone there, my necro help me good with fears sometims :P

Shar.3402:

sorrow.2364:

Banish is pretty slow and obvious. You can avoid that skill. Updraft, on the other hand, isn’t, but the blowout is far lower.
Another way to completely negate updraft, banish or whatever is just not position yourself in a line in the following order: enemy – you – cliff.

You focused on a single point of my mistake-list completely ignoring the others. You won’t proving my argument is invalid in that way.

Shield of Absorbtion (instant skill, good luck dodging that, you have to rely on luck) -> Scepter immobilize -> swap to hammer -> Banish (if you didn’t already get immobilized on the breaking glass)
Congratulations, you’ve successfully managed to kill someone as a bunker guardian, rinse and repeat when more people come up there.

Have you read what I wrote about positioning?