Guild Wars 2

7/26: Temple of the Silent Storm
(edited about 3 hours ago by Tyler Bearce.3427)

Skyhammer was scheduled to come back into tPvP map rotation on 26th of July. However, it seems that ArenaNet has acknowledged massive negative feedback regarding this map and decided to swap it for something more appropriate, like good old TotSS.

Hooray!

Really? is this true!!! THANK THE HEAVENS!!!

Nice. Hopefully they don’t abandon it but make viable changes to balance it more.

Now I hope they work on it so that it can become a tPvP map one day. I love the concept but it is just over the top (and honestly the first moment I saw the map preview I saw that coming, so could arenanet).

Really?! I LOVE skyhammer. yes it could use some polishing here and there, but the concept is brilliant.

In my eyes, anyone who hates on Skyhammer as a tPvP map simply has no imagination.

Where do you find this tpvp rotation list?

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Where do you find this tpvp rotation list?

Aqui:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/2-Team-Tournament-Map-Rotation

:P

Boring. They should have kept Skyhammer in the rotation.

Finally. That map is just a golf minigame, it’s not pvp.

Why? Why?!
Skyhammer is a great map and involves good tactics and skills to be successful in.
Why do you removed it from the rotation? Why ANet? QQ

The need for Stability to keep from getting Feared or knocked back off to death is a bit rediculous.

As a Ranger, stability is only available every 2 minutes which makes me rage at this map. =)

Boo boo !
And it was the only Map that Downstate was almost not usefull , like most ppl wanted

IT had a cool design but the whole i knock you off the map or lawl the floor can break or the 10k undodgable massive radius aoe made it very bad for tpvp

Oh yeah it eliminated downed state too like people wanted…. It made guardian consecration skills more useful.
It is the only map where condition spam isn’t the meta. It is a map where warriors and engines should actually be feared.
It made the secondary mechanic a big deal like people wanted, conquest isn’t the only objective like people wanted….

It gets here, “OMG THIS MAP SO BAD REMOVE NOW!” we are back to temple, forest, legacy, khylo…..
Thanks…..

sorrow.2364:

involves good tactics

No.

sorrow.2364:

and skills to be successful in.

Yes, it requires Launches or Pushes.

A map where engineers and warriors can shine can’t be tolerated in sPvP, obviously.

Isaac.6041:

Boring. They should have kept Skyhammer in the rotation.

+1

Anytime you have a map were it requires a certain setup to run, its unbalanced.

This map would be great if they reworked the glass panels to explode instead of shatter and do an instant death. Make them do a ton of damage, not an instant kill. That way builds designed for constant knockback cannot destroy the map.

If you want to play skyhammer play it on one of the many skyhammer only hotjoin servers. Maps that have an insta kill mechanic do not belong in competitive pvp

jportell.2197:

Oh yeah it eliminated downed state too like people wanted…. It made guardian consecration skills more useful.
It is the only map where condition spam isn’t the meta. It is a map where warriors and engines should actually be feared.
It made the secondary mechanic a big deal like people wanted, conquest isn’t the only objective like people wanted….

It gets here, “OMG THIS MAP SO BAD REMOVE NOW!” we are back to temple, forest, legacy, khylo…..
Thanks…..

Those maps are B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D. A good engi and a good warrior are already feared

Saying warriors are feared on any map is a stretch, but good engineers definitely have a role in traditional maps.

well here’s hope the map comes back. it’s one of my favorites.

Honestly, it’s a fun map, and I can see myself playing a few rounds on “Skyhammer only”maps whenever im bored of the old meta.

But thats the problem right there. This map has a completely different meta, one where CC can potentially cause instant death.

You would have to rebalance most of the CC skills if this map should ever be tPvP viable. And you had to split the balance changes between this map and the others if you don’t wan’t to render them useless for every other place.

Or you could just leave it out of the tPvP rotation, and have a fun, if unbalanced, match every once in a while if you feel like playing PvP Golf.

Come on… You can’t call yourself a good player if you can’t learn to adjust to the new maps. RIP Spirit Watch and Skyhammer, you’ll always have a special place in my heart.

Rengaru.4730:

Honestly, it’s a fun map, and I can see myself playing a few rounds on “Skyhammer only”maps whenever im bored of the old meta.

But thats the problem right there. This map has a completely different meta, one where CC can potentially cause instant death.

You would have to rebalance most of the CC skills if this map should ever be tPvP viable. And you had to split the balance changes between this map and the others if you don’t wan’t to render them useless for every other place.

Or you could just leave it out of the tPvP rotation, and have a fun, if unbalanced, match every once in a while if you feel like playing PvP Golf.

why is having a different meta on a different map such a bad thing? why should they nerf and buff skills all around (effectively ruining any semblance of balance in the process) just to make sure the meta is always the same stale thing on all maps?

embrace variety. if anything, multiple metas keep PvP fresh.

“Maps that carry a instakill mechanic do not belong in competitive play.”

Every time I hear this statement, it makes me visualize people playing the entire game either a) entirely on the edge of the map and take some time out from the ledge to play directly on top of the glass panels.

Woe be it that the endeared ranged, high dodge professions finally now having to deal with combat in small confines over nodes where they can’t evade in any direction for once and have their line of sight broken often forcing them to use melee weapons at times. heavens know we don’t want that.

The people they listen to are the people that want to play in a tiny box with 3 nodes and theres nothing special about it because they’ll whine if theres something in it besides people just wacking at each other.

To me just playing in a box with 3 nodes to capture isn’t fun at all, I’m glad anet brings out maps like skyhammer because its a very nice map, I like the mechanics involved.

In competitive games like Quake 3 you don’t see people whine with instant death mechanics, you fall in pit you fall in pit. Watch one of caed’s videos and he doesn’t whine about instant death mechanics he says “I got outplayed” and a lot of these whiners are getting outplayed but they chose to whine about it instead of admitting it like caed so they come here and whine so much they force the developers to do what they want.

Instagib mechanics aren’t necessarily bad. It depends largely on how they’re designed – the GW1 version of trebuchet could insta gib you under certain conditions, but it was never considered OP or cheesy, or uncompetitive, for that matter.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

That said, instagibs for a single push off a cliff do sound kind of over the top.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

“Maps that carry a instakill mechanic do not belong in competitive play.”

Every time I hear this statement, it makes me visualize people playing the entire game either a) entirely on the edge of the map and take some time out from the ledge to play directly on top of the glass panels.

Woe be it that the endeared ranged, high dodge professions finally now having to deal with combat in small confines over nodes where they can’t evade in any direction for once and have their line of sight broken often forcing them to use melee weapons at times. heavens know we don’t want that.

as a (mostly) ranged player, i agree. i find the confined environments to be much more interesting to play in, forcing you to stay aware of your surroundings, and not only where you’re standing, but where your enemy can send you to with a fear, knockback or pull.

that said, a little more room on the cannon room and on the edge of the map’s home points wouldn’t hurt. something to deal with all the crap that gets placed on top of the portal on the cannon room too.

last but not least, make things smoother. knockbacks + shatterable panels + immobilizes = rubberbanding everywhere while the server tries to decide where you’re actually supposed to be.

oh and for the love of god, make those falls kill 100% of the time. even if you insta-kill everyone regardless of traits or death shroud, that wurm isn’t a fast enough death. kill instantly please. nothing worse than knowing you’re dead, but not having been killed.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Instagib mechanics aren’t necessarily bad. It depends largely on how they’re designed – the GW1 version of trebuchet could insta gib you under certain conditions, but it was never considered OP or cheesy, or uncompetitive, for that matter.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

That said, instagibs for a single push off a cliff do sound kind of over the top.

You know what every profession is capable of doing, if you don’t want to get feared off fight with your back towards the wall. If you don’t want to get pulled into a pit don’t be in the vicinity of the pull as well as don’t have a pit in-between you and your foe. Seriously some people need to stop whining and L2P.

Somewhat you sound as if pvp was about playing vs AI, which is incapable of adapting its playstyle to capitalize on what their opponent can and cannot do.
Also, some ppl need to stop jumping to conclusions and throw around l2p’s just for the sake of it. OR was my wording in the above post so incomprehensible that I need to break it down for you?

uberkingkong.8041:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Instagib mechanics aren’t necessarily bad. It depends largely on how they’re designed – the GW1 version of trebuchet could insta gib you under certain conditions, but it was never considered OP or cheesy, or uncompetitive, for that matter.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

That said, instagibs for a single push off a cliff do sound kind of over the top.

You know what every profession is capable of doing, if you don’t want to get feared off fight with your back towards the wall. If you don’t want to get pulled into a pit don’t be in the vicinity of the pull as well as don’t have a pit in-between you and your foe. Seriously some people need to stop whining and L2P.

Its funny today on my engi i would go to a point step on the glass switch to tool kit and used my #5 skill magnet and pull people into the pit. This map requires no skill. If you think pressing 1 button and instantly killing someone requires skill you must be a hot join hero.

Derps.7421:

Its funny today on my engi i would go to a point step on the glass switch to tool kit and used my #5 skill magnet and pull people into the pit. This map requires no skill. If you think pressing 1 button and instantly killing someone requires skill you must be a hot join hero.

Those elitists make me sick.
You pretend to know what’s good for everyone and who doesn’t agree with you must be a “hotjoin hero”.

If that guy get pushed into the pit, he was outplayed.
He made a long list of mistakes that leaded to his death.
A map which is less forgiving to distractions and bad plays definitely belongs to tPvP.

Also, why in this world insta-kill mechanic doesn’t belong to this game?
I can make an huge list of well-known competitive games with insta-kill mechanics.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Somewhat you sound as if pvp was about playing vs AI, which is incapable of adapting its playstyle to capitalize on what their opponent can and cannot do.
Also, some ppl need to stop jumping to conclusions and throw around l2p’s just for the sake of it. OR was my wording in the above post so incomprehensible that I need to break it down for you?

just like the enemy can adapt, so can you. “l2p” is a simple (albeit rude) way to point out that if the enemy can avoid your CC and CC you, then you can also avoid their CC and CC them. there’s nothing only accessible to certain players. just make sure you do it better than them.

sorrow.2364:

kitten s.7421:

Maps that have an insta kill mechanic do not belong in competitive pvp

Please, explain to us poor mortals this statement.

There is no skill cap no room for growth and tactics if something is already insta gib.

The map is terrible, we have plenty of this siege garbage in WvW already. Anet really needs to just kittening stop it and let PvP be the one kitten place in the game where players actually fight each other with their class.

sorrow.2364:

kitten s.7421:

Its funny today on my engi i would go to a point step on the glass switch to tool kit and used my #5 skill magnet and pull people into the pit. This map requires no skill. If you think pressing 1 button and instantly killing someone requires skill you must be a hot join hero.

Those elitists make me sick.
You pretend to know what’s good for everyone and who doesn’t agree with you must be a “hotjoin hero”.

If that guy get pushed into the pit, he was outplayed.
He made a long list of mistakes that leaded to his death.
A map which is less forgiving to distractions and bad plays definitely belongs to tPvP.

Also, why in this world insta-kill mechanic doesn’t belong to this game?
I can make an huge list of well-known competitive games with insta-kill mechanics.

LE SIGH play the map in hot join it wasnt balanced in tpvp thats why it was removed move on

Derps.7421:

LE SIGH play the map in hot join it wasnt balanced in tpvp thats why it was removed move on

It was probably removed because of the massive amount of QQ around that map.
ArenaNet doesn’t just put a map in the tPvP rotation when half of the community QQ about it.

There is no skill cap no room for growth and tactics if something is already insta gib.

The map is terrible, we have plenty of this siege garbage in WvW already. Anet really needs to just kittening stop it and let PvP be the one kitten place in the game where players actually fight each other with their class.

Really?
Do you think there is no skill-cap and growth for tactics?
You should explain me why the ability of push off someone from a cliff makes this map skill-less.

As far as I see, this map is just less forgiving against players who play bad.

sorrow.2364:

kitten s.7421:

LE SIGH play the map in hot join it wasnt balanced in tpvp thats why it was removed move on

It was probably removed because of the massive amount of QQ around that map.
ArenaNet doesn’t just put a map in the tPvP rotation when half of the community QQ about it.

There is no skill cap no room for growth and tactics if something is already insta gib.

The map is terrible, we have plenty of this siege garbage in WvW already. Anet really needs to just kittening stop it and let PvP be the one kitten place in the game where players actually fight each other with their class.

Really?
Do you think there is no skill-cap and growth for tactics?
You should explain me why the ability of push off someone from a cliff makes this map skill-less.

As far as I see, this map is just less forgiving against players who play bad.

Because you push one button and do it thats pretty much the skill cap. Growth for tactics? You mean everyone run a class with a lot of knock backs? The reason their was so much qq was because the map isnt balanced for tpvp.

sorrow.2364:

Really?
Do you think there is no skill-cap and growth for tactics?
You should explain me why the ability of push off someone from a cliff makes this map skill-less.

As far as I see, this map is just less forgiving against players who play bad.

This map is for gimmicks not fighting, pushing someone off a ledge is not skilled play its easy to do if they dont have stability its good game. However I dont really have issue with the maps layout. Killing people in 1 hit with a siege weapon is not skilled play.

WvW is already a game mode that already has siege covered, really really really really kittening covered. WvW players despise the power of siege like AC’s, zero reason to bring that kind of bullkitten into the PvP game mode.

If you want to feel good at the game by pressing one WvW is for you leave PvP alone.

Xom.9264:

sorrow.2364:

Really?
Do you think there is no skill-cap and growth for tactics?
You should explain me why the ability of push off someone from a cliff makes this map skill-less.

As far as I see, this map is just less forgiving against players who play bad.

This map is for gimmicks not fighting, pushing someone off a ledge is not skilled play its easy to do if they dont have stability its good game. However I dont really have issue with the maps layout. Killing people in 1 hit with a siege weapon is not skilled play.

WvW is already a game mode that already has siege covered, really really really really kittening covered. WvW players despise the power of siege like AC’s, zero reason to bring that kind of bullkitten into the PvP game mode.

If you want to feel good at the game by pressing one WvW is for you leave PvP alone.

I love you. The map design in very nice i like how it takes advantage of the Z axis. If they make it so you cannot be knocked off the map or at least removing all the glass panes from the map and nerfing the cannon and making it avoidable and reducing its aoe range it would be a very fun tourny map

Xom.9264:

This map is for gimmicks not fighting, pushing someone off a ledge is not skilled play its easy to do if they dont have stability its good game. However I dont really have issue with the maps layout. Killing people in 1 hit with a siege weapon is not skilled play.

WvW is already a game mode that already has siege covered, really really really really kittening covered. WvW players despise the power of siege like AC’s, zero reason to bring that kind of bullkitten into the PvP game mode.

If you want to feel good at the game by pressing one WvW is for you leave PvP alone.

The cannon does not kill players in one hit.
Also, the animation of the cannon hitting in seconds is HUGE. You don’t care to being hit if you are hit by the cannon.

Why pushing someone off a ledge is not a skilled play?
It is much more skilled play to push someone off a ledge and prevent to be pushed down than spam your AoE skills in one node like everyone in every other tPvP maps do.

I think ppl do not understand the no-skill aspect of an instakill, in gw2 you should actualy have room to adapt to the build of your foe.
In fact when you see an engineer for exemple and he has pistol/shield. You can guess he s playing condition, maybe teldo build or a tweak version of it, he might also have a crazy build you ve never seen before.
But the thing is you are out of cd cause you just pwned a thief. So the engineer can simply push you out of the ledge with his shield 4, you dead and still don’t know anything about his build. It could have been a good fight or you could have delayed but no cd which happens a lot in tpvp means your death. Where do you have room to adapt, where is the skill ?
Now ppl are often raging/QQing hard when they don’t have some room to adapt, you just have to look at posts whinig about thief being OP because too much dmg or back at launch 100b warrior being OP.
Personnaly i play thief and have no problem on this map cause i m nerver out of cd (got to love init) and i don’t mind having no easy access to stab or knock backs/pulls, but i agree that it cannot be competitive in its state because of this lack of window for reaction, you do 1 mistake you die even if you were dominating the whole fight and build with no dmg can easily kill anyone. That’s not really competitve is it ?

uberkingkong, please stop with your unaccurate posts and with your childish behaviour like saying “L2P” and stuff like that. That said the competitive scene is happy about the outtake of Skyhammer in the tournament rotation.

I don’t see how it’s harmful to have a map being tested in the tournament queue for a few days. How else is it going to be tested? You can’t test a map in the form of competitive play in hot joins.

But I guess it’s because I like the map. I think people have been way too quick to say it’s dumb, and I think people are way too quick to feel forced to change their builds.

Maybe there can be tweaks made to make it harder to knock people off. Maybe there needs to be better animations on CC effects, so that way you don’t instantly get knocked off. Maybe the range on some abilities need to be changed. Maybe the glass floors need to be smaller. Maybe there needs to be better places to position yourself so you don’t easily get knocked off. Maybe the map is fine but people need to learn to adapt to it. Who knows, because everyone has been complaining about it since it came out because it was different.

Maybe you need to be able to dodge the laser thing so it becomes less important (but still important because you can land it in conjunction with CC abilities, but oh wait almost no one does this on khylo anyway, nevermind.)

Audiogasm.7643:

I think ppl do not understand the no-skill aspect of an instakill, in gw2 you should actualy have room to adapt to the build of your foe.
In fact when you see an engineer for exemple and he has pistol/shield. You can guess he s playing condition, maybe teldo build or a tweak version of it, he might also have a crazy build you ve never seen before.
But the thing is you are out of cd cause you just pwned a thief. So the engineer can simply push you out of the ledge with his shield 4, you dead and still don’t know anything about his build. It could have been a good fight or you could have delayed but no cd which happens a lot in tpvp means your death. Where do you have room to adapt, where is the skill ?
Now ppl are often raging/QQing hard when they don’t have some room to adapt, you just have to look at posts whinig about thief being OP because too much dmg or back at launch 100b warrior being OP.
Personnaly i play thief and have no problem on this map cause i m nerver out of cd (got to love init) and i don’t mind having no easy access to stab or knock backs/pulls, but i agree that it cannot be competitive in its state because of this lack of window for reaction, you do 1 mistake you die even if you were dominating the whole fight and build with no dmg can easily kill anyone. That’s not really competitve is it ?

The no-room for errors is competitive.
This map underlines the differences between skilled and unskilled players much much more compared to other maps simply because you can’t afford to make a mistake which isn’t something harmful to the competitive scene, it is something needed.

Regarding your example, it isn’t significative because you engaged such a dangerous fight with your stunbreakers on cooldown, which is something any competent player would have never, never done.

sorrow.2364:

If that guy get pushed into the pit, he was outplayed.
He made a long list of mistakes that leaded to his death.

sorrow.2364:

The no-room for errors is competitive.
This map underlines the differences between skilled and unskilled players much much more compared to other maps simply because you can’t afford to make a mistake

I think that prove how good your arguments are …

sorrow.2364:

Regarding your example, it isn’t significative because you engaged such a dangerous fight with your stunbreakers on cooldown, which is something any competent player would have never, never done.

You’ve obvously never defended a node properly in tPvP, yet you’re speaking of how great this map is for competitive games. How you fight when out of cooldown is part of the game and show how well you know its mechanism.

BrunoBRS.5178:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Somewhat you sound as if pvp was about playing vs AI, which is incapable of adapting its playstyle to capitalize on what their opponent can and cannot do.
Also, some ppl need to stop jumping to conclusions and throw around l2p’s just for the sake of it. OR was my wording in the above post so incomprehensible that I need to break it down for you?

just like the enemy can adapt, so can you. “l2p” is a simple (albeit rude) way to point out that if the enemy can avoid your CC and CC you, then you can also avoid their CC and CC them. there’s nothing only accessible to certain players. just make sure you do it better than them.

Oh yea, in a perfect world everyone has the same amount of access to CC, counter-CC, the same amount of AoE skills, mobility skills and whatnot to work around it. As much as we love to use l2p, it is not always the underlying cause of a certain issue.
Mind that my original post here merely hinted that it MIGHT be a bit too much, but the reaction post decided instead to hop to conclusions and pull a l2p on me.

Anyhow, it appears this map is all about being first at exhausting their CC/anti-CC options to determine the winner. Sort of reminds one of duals vs terror necros, an occurence which however seems to be rather detested amongst the community.
On one side, you hear screams of agony regarding fear chains, on the other you hear exclamations of joy when players use similar tools to land an insta gib.
How peculiar.

And yes, I haven’t even played the map yet, nor do I know when I will. However judging from all the options a thief has to jump to, I doubt I’ll be particularly amused once I give it a go, and I’m not a fan of being tossed around like a golf ball either.

Audiogasm.7643:

sorrow.2364:

If that guy get pushed into the pit, he was outplayed.
He made a long list of mistakes that leaded to his death.

sorrow.2364:

The no-room for errors is competitive.
This map underlines the differences between skilled and unskilled players much much more compared to other maps simply because you can’t afford to make a mistake

I think that prove how good your arguments are …

I’ve made a list in another topic of mistakes made by someone who gets pulled to his death. It is approximately 8-points long.

Audiogasm.7643:

You’ve obvously never defended a node properly in tPvP, yet you’re speaking of how great this map is for competitive games. How you fight when out of cooldown is part of the game and show how well you know its mechanism.

Do you really want to engage someone holding the cannon with all of your stunbreakers on cooldown?
Is that what “competitive” means to you? Being able to engage a tough fight with your main defensive skills on cooldown and expecting to have any chance?

To sorrow, as you don’t seem to understand i ll point out the flaw in your arguments.
First you said that being pushed out of the map to your death was a long serie of mistakes which is competitive and i would agree if that was true.
But i disagree because you can get push on only ONE mistake in this map, it is far too punishing.
You then say that making one single mistake and being hard punished for that is competitive → first self contradiction. I point it out.
You then resay that it’s a a series of mistake → second self contradiction.

Then if you can read, i said you usually fight for a node when out of cd, because it seems conquest is all about nodes, well maybe i was wrong and when an ennemy comes to contest my node i shall run in fear of him killing me because i got no cd.
Anyway you seem like the the type of personn who cannot handle a debat and recognise his flaws, or just a troll guys.
That’s my last answer to you, srry to others ppl for multiple posts.

I seriously think these two are the same account and they also only started tpvping because the map was skyhammer