So, Elementalist Ranged Capability

So, Elementalist Ranged Capability

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Posted by: Chaosky.5276

Chaosky.5276

Before I get started, I should note that I’m making this thread in this subforum because this is where most balance discussions outside of class subforums take place, not because it is particularly relevant to sPvP – in fact, I’d say the control point objectives of sPvP serve to limit the effectiveness of ranged combat. In other words, I’m hoping this doesn’t get moved, because I’d like to reach an audience beyond the Elementalist section.

Now, I’m a guy who absolutely cannot stand being restricted to melee range – or rather, I like being effective at all ranges, which ranged combat allows. I’m very much a fan of versatility, and it’s a rather happy coincidence that the class with the theme I was most interested in – the Elementalist – had a design philosophy that was just that.
Thing is, eles aren’t very good when it comes to ranged combat. There’s the staff, which simply isn’t designed for use without team support, and the scepter, the damage of which is kinda awkwardly designed; I’ll go into detail about the latter.
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The scepter’s Fire attunement seems to be focused on slow-moving, heavy-hitting attacks, aside from the autoattack, which is focused on condition damage via burning, making the scepter’s Fire attunement terrible for sustained damage, as even condition builds should utilize Earth as much as possible (an issue for another thread).

(1) Dragon’s Tooth is the most commonly attacked skill due to its long delay, and rightly so – in any practical scenario, the only CC we have that can keep an enemy still long enough for it to hit is the 3 second immobilize of Signet of Earth, which still allows a foe plenty of time to remove the condition and evade our attack.
Not to mention that that combo can’t really compare to Arcane Blast and Arcane Wave seeing as they’re instant, can have their cooldowns reduced in the Arcana line as opposed to Signet of Earth in Earth Magic, which doesn’t synergize with the burst builds that actually worry about getting Dragon’s Tooth to hit, Signet of Earth is only better if DT crits, and using a weapon-based CC before DT will still force the enemy to dodge.

I’d recommend reducing the delay of Dragon’s Tooth to 2 seconds, so that our weapon-based CCs can actually get it to hit. I’d also really like to see the Elemental Surge trait in Arcana improved to apply a 2 second immobilize.

(2) Regarding Phoenix, first I’d like to point out that if encountered with an angle that a player could not traverse via walking, it will behave erratically and/or fail. This is a problem mainly when fighting enemies on elevated platforms.

Now, Phoenix is a very powerful skill offensively and quite good defensively, as well. The problem with it is that it travels extremely slowly – the same speed as I do in combat, actually – which makes it pretty terrible at range.

I’d say a significant increase in movement speed is warranted.

(3) Shatterstone is quite useless in its current form, seeing as the Water autoattack does more damage.

Increasing the AoE radius and damage and reducing the amount of time you’re locked out of other skills after using it would be good, I’d say. Alternatively, increasing the AoE radius and recharge time, decreasing the delay and skill lockout period, and adding a Chill component to it would be an effective improvement.

(4) This is a very minor issue, but it’d be nice if Water Trident healed you when casting it, and only healed allies when it hit the ground. It just seems weird that I never have reason to use a skill with a damage component on enemies.

(5) (Keep in mind that I said that condition builds have their own problems, so I’m not referring to them here.) The scepter is severely lacking in damage in the Earth attunement, and this problem is exacerbated by the weakness of the scepter’s autoattacks.
Frankly, Air and Fire are the only attunements that are effective at dealing damage for the scepter, and beyond Air, the scepter has no proper sustained damage, and attunement cooldowns essentially force downtime during which enemies take next to no damage (Ice Shards does deal decent damage, but the switch to the Water attunement is an important defensive mechanism that one can’t afford to risk on filler damage). A low Attunement Recharge Rate really hurts the scepter because of this.

I’m not really sure how to solve this problem. Perhaps increasing the degree to which scepter autoattacks scale with Power (namely Flamestrike and Stone Shards), and replacing Dust Devil with a more damage-oriented skill would help.
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WOW that was long.

Anyway, anyone got any other ideas? Anyone care?

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Posted by: ryston.7640

ryston.7640

Don’t like melee? Wrong game brot

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Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

What I don’t really like about the DD-Ele is, that in it’s current form, the real heavy DMG is always done when going into melee:

- Fire Grab
- Arcane Blast
- Phoenix (Phoenix doesn’t need to be changed, it’s an awesome skill, but you cannot look at it as a reliable ranged-attack; it’s best used on knocked down targets when you spike)
- Knockdowns/Updraft

I’d really like to see the Focus being buffed to give the Ele more sustained ranged-DPS and offensive Support in a tradeoff for very strong Combo’s:

- On Fire, the Flamewall is pretty decent for ranged Teamfight-Support, but the Fire-Shield is kinda useless for that, a nice ranged (AoE-)Attack would be much more appreciated
- On Water, the Skills could work for a more range-oriented Ele, but they are just too weak. They could easily have 5-10 seconds reduced CD.
- On Earth, the Skills are good and they work great for a Ranged-Support/DD, because you can always need survival-tools like that.
- On Air, I simply hate what they did to Gale: In GW1, it was one of the best Skills to apply pressure, to assist in Spikes, but it had such a huge drawback to make up for the very short cooldown. I wanna see this type of Gale again with 5 Seconds CD, 2 Seconds Knockdown, but a big drawback; I even have some decent Ideas:
1) Make using Gale give a global CD on your attunement-switch that stacks in duration every time you use Gale until you leave the Combat: The First use of Gale is a 5 Seconds Global CD, the Second one is 10, then 15 and so on.
2) Make Gale give you the Knockback to yourself as well, again with stacking durations until you leave combat.

—> Gale was one of the best Support-Skills in GW1 and I think it could really put the Focus back on the Map if you make it an interesting and in teamfights potentially deadly skill again.

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Posted by: Chaosky.5276

Chaosky.5276

snip

I’m a big fan of ranged/melee hybrids, so this stuff looks awesome (though perhaps not terribly balanced). Not to mention that it might actually provide the skills the scepter needs to be effective at range.

I kinda doubt they’d change the focus so dramatically, though, so a new offhand weapon focused on ranged damage/support might be more likely if anything like that were to happen.

(edited by Chaosky.5276)

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Posted by: ryston.7640

ryston.7640

This is GW2, where PvP means capture point only and everyone has a teleport utility to back up their teleport weapon skill with a teleport weapon swap and a class mechanic teleport sometimes.

‘ranged’ is a concept grounded in positioning, which gw2 does not promote.

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Posted by: Follidus.8027

Follidus.8027

People love to complain about how there’s no team play in this game.

People love to complain that elementalists can’t land dragon’s tooth by themselves.

I don’t get it.

Cause I ain’t perfect, I never said I was.
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends

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Posted by: Chaosky.5276

Chaosky.5276

This is GW2, where PvP means capture point only and everyone has a teleport utility to back up their teleport weapon skill with a teleport weapon swap and a class mechanic teleport sometimes.

‘ranged’ is a concept grounded in positioning, which gw2 does not promote.

Well, I don’t really care if there’s actually a point to having ranged capability, it’s just my preferred playstyle. I did say that this doesn’t necessarily have a lot to do with sPvP, though, and that I posted here because this is where class balance discussions outside of class forums generally take place.

People love to complain about how there’s no team play in this game.

People love to complain that elementalists can’t land dragon’s tooth by themselves.

I don’t get it.

Different people, different preferences.

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Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

People love to complain about how there’s no team play in this game.

People love to complain that elementalists can’t land dragon’s tooth by themselves.

I don’t get it.

Dragons tooth forces dodges/CD’s, so even if it doesn’t hit, when you combo it with knockdowns/updraft, you at least force a dodge/CD, or, if they don’t have any left, it can hit…

And the lack of very intricate teamplay isn’t because of GW2 in general, but because atm. it’s not yet needed to win. If the competetive community keeps growing, it will surely be needed very soon. Also, some teams already show great communication and teamplay in teamfights.