(edited by TwoBit.5903)
So Instead of "Boon Hate"....
I think everyone would love to have selective boon removal, but I’m just not sure how that would work. It would be amazing if you could select your own priority for what you want to remove, but maybe that’s a little too much.
I like the boon sickness idea.
Cause I ain’t perfect, I never said I was.
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends
I agree somewhat but if they do this they need to implement the same application cool down on conditions. I think mass condy builds are a bit over the top. In the current meta your forced to run multiple condition removal skills and trait spots. It limits build diversity.
I still don’t understand why they got rid of hexes from GW1 to GW2.
Boonsickness craps on team-support.
The great forum duppy.
Defensive Boons- Regen, Protection, Aegis
Offensive Boons- Might, Fury, Retaliation
Supportive Boons- Swiftness, Vigor, Stability
If a skill removes 2 from one category, the removal will still be random and interesting, but not so random as to not be strategic.
Boonsickness craps on team-support.
Depends on how it’s implemented. I don’t mean to make it sounds as though I’m suggesting that one new mechanic will balance an inherently unbalanced system. Implementing changes like my “boon sickness” will require rebalancing things like the frequency of application, availability of both boons and boon removal, etc. That’s stuff’s complicated. It’s something for the devs to figure out :P I’m just throwing out ideas.
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
I see.
Boon removal is strategic or at least it always has been when I took Bountiful Theft (problem was that it’s the only removal, not including FS)
Pretty sure boon removal isn’t random, I have never seen it be random the results are always predictable. Problem is the interface sucks and doesn’t make knowing which boon was just applied known well like it was in GW1. This is also true for conditions, since the stacks don’t move on reapplicaiton they just increase…
What is random about boon removal (excluding Nullification)? The interface doesn’t make discerning what these are even remotely intuitive however and if you didn’t see them apply them you wouldn’t know at all. Hopefully this get’s changed so added and refreshed boons move left-right so you know what is at the Top and what’s at the bottom. Am I missing your meaning?
The great forum duppy.
I see.
Boon removal is strategic or at least it always has been when I took Bountiful Theft (problem was that it’s the only removal, not including FS)
Pretty sure boon removal isn’t random, I have never seen it be random the results are always predictable. Problem is the interface sucks and doesn’t make knowing which boon was just applied known well like it was in GW1. This is also true for conditions, since the stacks don’t move on reapplicaiton they just increase…What is random about boon removal (excluding Nullification)? The interface doesn’t make discerning what these are even remotely intuitive however and if you didn’t see them apply them you wouldn’t know at all. Hopefully this get’s changed so added and refreshed boons move left-right so you know what is at the Top and what’s at the bottom. Am I missing your meaning?
Irrc, the oldest boons are removed, so it’s not random in that sense. It’s random in the sense that the process is too chaotic. The one applying the boon can certainly control which which ones are the oldest, but because fights are so fast and front-loaded I’m sure there not much consideration is put into which boons are applied and in which order. It just just happens, and there’s little actual strategy involved.
I’m not sure its random. Whenever I use steal on a target with stability, I always strip it.
The most recently applied boon/condition has the highest priority to be removed. There is nothing random about it. Skills that add multiple boons/conditions have a built in priority already.
You can also use this to cover your boons/conditions from dispels to a degree.
Not random in theory, but in practice it’s not even close to deliberate. Kind of like the rest of the battle system.
Not random in theory, but in practice it’s not even close to deliberate. Kind of like the rest of the battle system.
Inaction or inability of the player to accomplish something deliberately is not the same thing as random.
The fact of the matter is, you do dispel the most recently applied boon. You can account for this if you are the receiving player by refreshing a trash boon you don’t need.
If someone had 5 boons, and one of those was stability, and they were stomping one of your downed teammates, while three of the enemy were downed, would it be trivial then?
This is why random chance is not conducive to a competitive environment. The above situation would be determined by a dice role, and the outcome is significant enough to utterly change the outcome of the game. And the worst part is that this kind of situation is possible in the current game. Things like quickness on critical hit or a chance for conditions to convert into boons are terrible mechanics.
edit: The RNG rant was more a reply to your “random and strategic” boon removal.
Defensive Boons- Regen, Protection, Aegis
Offensive Boons- Might, Fury, Retaliation
Supportive Boons- Swiftness, Vigor, Stability
If a skill removes 2 from one category, the removal will still be random and interesting, but not so random as to not be strategic.
(edited by Larynx.2453)
As the players have stated before it’d be difficult to tell what’s even going on. The game’s too chaotic to support that kind of a system, especially with the way boons can be reapplied.
And to answer your question, no it wouldn’t be trivial, but only incidentally so. The thing with strategic play is that strategies are deliberate, not incidental.
So can we stop arguing with the semantics and actually contribute now?
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
As the players have stated before it’d be difficult to tell what’s even going on. The game’s too chaotic to support that kind of a system, especially with the way boons can be reapplied.
That is not an inherent issue with the game. It is a skill issue of the players. Again, players can account for this. Whether they deem it necessary or are able to accomplish it is different from being unable to do it.
Let’s take Stand Your Ground and Save Yourselves, for example. The only way to practically remove the stability at that point is to use some sort of complete boon strip like Corrupt Boon.
(edited by Larynx.2453)
As the players have stated before it’d be difficult to tell what’s even going on. The game’s too chaotic to support that kind of a system, especially with the way boons can be reapplied.
That is not an inherent issue with the game. It is a skill issue of the players. Again, players can account for this. Whether they deem it necessary or are able to accomplish it is different from being unable to do it.
Let’s take Stand Your Ground and Save Yourselves, for example. The only way to practically remove the stability at that point is to use some sort of complete boon strip like Corrupt Boon.
Yes and that’s why boon stripping is so weak.
The speed of the game keeps strategy from being feasible the majority. It might not be so bad for a “pro” (emphasis on might, because I know how bad this game is with telegraphing) but its excludes other players. Isn’t there something a bit off about that? I mean I can tell exactly what’s going in in an SCII match and I’m not pro.
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
It would be nice to have the ability to strip boons at all, without being forced into precision and specific sigils…
Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user
As the players have stated before it’d be difficult to tell what’s even going on. The game’s too chaotic to support that kind of a system, especially with the way boons can be reapplied.
That is not an inherent issue with the game. It is a skill issue of the players. Again, players can account for this. Whether they deem it necessary or are able to accomplish it is different from being unable to do it.
Let’s take Stand Your Ground and Save Yourselves, for example. The only way to practically remove the stability at that point is to use some sort of complete boon strip like Corrupt Boon.
Yes and that’s why boon stripping is so weak.
Boon stripping is weak, because players are able to account for the deterministic nature of boon removal and account for this by shielding them?
Funny, I remember not one post ago you saying this exact same thing was too chaotic to possibly use to any meaningful degree. And now that very thing is what makes boon removal weak.
As the players have stated before it’d be difficult to tell what’s even going on. The game’s too chaotic to support that kind of a system, especially with the way boons can be reapplied.
That is not an inherent issue with the game. It is a skill issue of the players. Again, players can account for this. Whether they deem it necessary or are able to accomplish it is different from being unable to do it.
Let’s take Stand Your Ground and Save Yourselves, for example. The only way to practically remove the stability at that point is to use some sort of complete boon strip like Corrupt Boon.
Yes and that’s why boon stripping is so weak.
Boon stripping is weak, because players are able to account for the deterministic nature of boon removal and account for this by shielding them?
Funny, I remember not one post ago you saying this exact same thing was too chaotic to possibly use to any meaningful degree. And now that very thing is what makes boon removal weak.
How about It’s weak because of both. Because there can be boons applied at any time by boon factories and because fights are so chaotic. I was really replying to you second statement, anyway.
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel stability on somebody stomping, it’s about luck. When there’s a 66% chance to dispel protection on the target you’re about to burst, it’s about luck.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel that 15-20 stacks of might on the glass cannon bursting you, it’s about luck.
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel stability on somebody stomping, it’s about luck.
Not unless you take away all three, or if there’s only stability. It really depends on the availability of boons. Still it’s far less random than the current system.
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel stability on somebody stomping, it’s about luck.
Not unless you take away all three, or if there’s only stability. It really depends on the availability of boons. Still it’s far less random than the current system.
There’s nothing inherently random about the current system.
“Inaction or inability of the player to accomplish something deliberately is not the same thing as random.” – literally 10 minutes ago
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel stability on somebody stomping, it’s about luck.
Not unless you take away all three, or if there’s only stability. It really depends on the availability of boons. Still it’s far less random than the current system.
There’s nothing inherently random about the current system.
In the sense that it’s not deliberate, Mr. Tedious.
It would be nice to have the ability to strip boons at all, without being forced into precision and specific sigils…
Seems like I missed a post. And I agree. You’re also passing up much better sigils for a chance at a chance.
(edited by TwoBit.5903)
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel stability on somebody stomping, it’s about luck.
Not unless you take away all three, or if there’s only stability. It really depends on the availability of boons. Still it’s far less random than the current system.
There’s nothing inherently random about the current system.
In the sense that it’s not deliberate, Mr. Tedious.
I’ll go ahead and quote it a third time
Inaction or inability of the player to accomplish something deliberately is not the same thing as random.
There is nothing random about the current system. It is impossible for a random mechanic to be less random than a nonrandom mechanic.
Edit to your edit: RNG is by no means bad. Even attacks in fighting games have a small degree of variance in their damage. It’s bad when it trivializes strategy, however. My point about the random and strategic statement is that the “randomness” keeps it interesting but it’s “strategic” in the sense that there was a clear and objective behind it. But if you remove 3 boons of a category, hey! No RNG at all!
I’ve already explained to you why this version of RNG is bad. Re-read the example. It is not conducive or healthy for a competitive environment when a team can win a game based on luck.
MMOs, and specifically Guild Wars 2, already suffer enough from this. There’s no point in adding even more.
It’s not adding more luck, it’s narrowing it down.
When there’s a 66% chance to dispel stability on somebody stomping, it’s about luck.
Not unless you take away all three, or if there’s only stability. It really depends on the availability of boons. Still it’s far less random than the current system.
There’s nothing inherently random about the current system.
In the sense that it’s not deliberate, Mr. Tedious.
I’ll go ahead and quote it a third time
Inaction or inability of the player to accomplish something deliberately is not the same thing as random.
There is nothing random about the current system. It is impossible for an entirely random mechanic to be less random than a nonrandom mechanic.
Okay, you win. I’ll start using “not deliberate” from now on. You can go pat yourself on the back, and be on your merry way if you’re not going to contribute.