Guild Wars 2

Aether McLoud.1975:

Advent.6193:

Hmmph. I’m surprised none of the anti-Mesmer QQ has been started about Mass Invisibility. Mobile AoE stealth + party DPS?

Because you don’t count as being on a point in stealth. And you need to capture points to win tournaments.

Say it’s the first team fight 4v4 on keep after the match starts. The team with the mesmer gets the point 100% because he uses time warp which either destroys the other team or forces them to retreat. And once you have keep you won’t lose it again with a bunker guard. THAT is why time warp needs nerfs.

So what you’re saying is, if two teams without TW contend for the Keep, and one has to win it, and there’s a bunker guardian on that team who will hold that point effectively determining the match, that TW is broken and needs to be removed?

Or is your argument a non sequitur and draw attention to either the bunker guardian and/or map design/ point scoring mechanics…

The TW “may” determine one fight. That fight <b>might</b> be “match changing”. It might be the best build within the team to have in the mix (there will always be some skill/s that are). None of this equates to what you’re trying to argue though.

Seether.7285:

Rainu.6871:

If it’s split so that any change only affect PvE then fine. If not then I don’t see why something that only affects a very small (I’d guess max 5%) of the players should lead to more nerfs for a class that is already very weak in pve.

I’m glad we got the PvEers speaking up in every balance thread in the PvP section. Scripted NPCs are pretty tough to fight, any more nerfs to mesmers and they won’t be able to kill anything!!!!

That is actually pretty funny because the only difference between PvE mob AI and the average PvP player is that the AI actually kills illusions. Give it a go sometime.

Also the cool down on time warp is SOOOO long that it can be used once in a PvP match and thats it… And the pvp matches I have been in last a lot longer than 10 freaking seconds.

Xeron.3745:

Why ends every thread with a (Nerf Mesmer and Thief) discussion?

Because they can beat bunker Guardians.

Fuzion.7613:

Turn time warp into a signet
Signet of Time

• Passive Movement Speed (20%?) Would have with mesmers lack of mobility.
• Apply 4 seconds of Quickness to Yourself and Ally’s within 600 range
• 140 Second Cool Down

I like.

That’s awful. The passive effect is weaker than non-elite passive effects on other classes. The active effect would hardly be useful. Some people really do just hate the mesmer profession. At this point, I hope they buff the mesmer.

Levetty.1279:

Seether.7285:

Rainu.6871:

If it’s split so that any change only affect PvE then fine. If not then I don’t see why something that only affects a very small (I’d guess max 5%) of the players should lead to more nerfs for a class that is already very weak in pve.

I’m glad we got the PvEers speaking up in every balance thread in the PvP section. Scripted NPCs are pretty tough to fight, any more nerfs to mesmers and they won’t be able to kill anything!!!!

That is actually pretty funny because the only difference between PvE mob AI and the average PvP player is that the AI actually kills illusions. Give it a go sometime.

This is what I’ve noticed as well. The AI handles mesmers so much better than other players.

A big problem that warriors and guardians (and to a lesser extent necros, rangers, and engineers) have with mesmers is that PvE trains them to stand still and tank damage. Just keep hitting until the enemy is dead. In sPvP, especially against mesmers and thieves this strategy is not viable. It will work against other professions like them because they do the same thing. This is also why d-d eles are able to make short work of warriors and guardians and fight on a level playing field with thieves and mesmers; they dodge and move.

DaShi.1368:

Levetty.1279:

Seether.7285:

Rainu.6871:

If it’s split so that any change only affect PvE then fine. If not then I don’t see why something that only affects a very small (I’d guess max 5%) of the players should lead to more nerfs for a class that is already very weak in pve.

I’m glad we got the PvEers speaking up in every balance thread in the PvP section. Scripted NPCs are pretty tough to fight, any more nerfs to mesmers and they won’t be able to kill anything!!!!

That is actually pretty funny because the only difference between PvE mob AI and the average PvP player is that the AI actually kills illusions. Give it a go sometime.

This is what I’ve noticed as well. The AI handles mesmers so much better than other players.

A big problem that warriors and guardians (and to a lesser extent necros, rangers, and engineers) have with mesmers is that PvE trains them to stand still and tank damage. Just keep hitting until the enemy is dead. In sPvP, especially against mesmers and thieves this strategy is not viable. It will work against other professions like them because they do the same thing. This is also why d-d eles are able to make short work of warriors and guardians and fight on a level playing field with thieves and mesmers; they dodge and move.

Thank you…

Honestly, at this point, take timewarp away, and mesmer is a portal user who spams the least reliable and most telegraphed burst in the game (Ignoring pure 100b warriors, they don’t count as they’re not viable).

Mesmer vs Mesmer, all I have to do is roll into their clones, and I’ve wasted their entire burst. Dodge roll is universal. They have to specifically set it up with a LONG cast time clone, who then has to get into melee with you, and then get teleported out of melee, provided you attempt to avoid the shatter. Killing said specific clone INSTANTLY breaks this burst tactic. Really, they have nothing else that can immob you, and they have to reset a third clone, which is, admittedly, easy.

As far as elites go, post moa nerf (And you can avoid Moa in alot of ways, but it’s not telegraphed enough for it’s power, but that’s another story), we have only Timewarp. Mass invis is quirky, easily ruined in the heat of the moment, and lasts for only a few moments. Veil is objectively better in 9/10 situations.

Timewarp has a MASSIVE cooldown. Most sPvP matches, I’ve only gotten off two if I was using them as much as possible. for tPvP, you miiiight get three if it’s close.

Timewarp does precious little to the mesmer proper. Timewarp has NO effect on cooldown rate. Most of mesmer’s damage in any build comes from cooldowns. Other classes have faster kill speeds in melee, and at range, with their auto attacks. In a 1v1, it’s strong, but we REALLY aren’t getting half as much out of it as we would if I used it to buff allies and not myself.

Portal is still strong, but it’s a skill that will never not be strong. If timewarp gets nerfed, mesmer will have no elites worth anything, and become a simple portal class with a high burst (Many other builds give high burst that can’t be countered as easily, so largely irrelevant). AND IT WILL STILL BE PICKED BECAUSE PORTAL IS GREAT FOR GROUPS.

So… how many people are doing tournaments with a static in the whole game? Very few I guess, because all I see on these forums is “s/t pvp is dead blahblahblah”.

Why then… why would Anet nerf our mesmer skills AGAIN just to satisfy 3 players and a half? ( I’m exagerating on purpose) A lot more ( like A LOT) are doing pve/wvw and never complain about TW.

Just stop it, it’s getting ridiculous (and just to remind you… a month ago, TW wasn’t a problem, it was portal, then shattered strengh and the shatter bug… still, TW wasn’t a problem… But now that you got all you whinned for, you need more and more and more nerfs. It’s so childish, it’s not even funny).

leman.7682:

Fuzion.7613:

Turn time warp into a signet
Signet of Time

• Passive Movement Speed (20%?) Would have with mesmers lack of mobility.
• Apply 4 seconds of Quickness to Yourself and Ally’s within 600 range
• 140 Second Cool Down

I like.

I also like. Helps PvE and PvP. ANet, kindly offer this person (Fuzion) a job. Thank you. Note, duration could probably use some modding.

You guys won’t stop till they people stop bringing mesmers to sPvP.
I’m convinced, nerf after nerf on my class and its never enough.

Time warp is far from OP. im sorry about i cant even agree to it even bieng remotely OP its cooldown is extremely long. like. ridiculously long that i dont even use it not even for WvW and tbh i rather use Mass invisibility rather than time warp in any aspect of the game. 10 seconds of haste is cool and out yes it puts out more DPS for you and your team and speed stomps but the cooldown is just far to long for my taste.

As for as viable elites. Mass Invisibility all the way. much more reliable than time warp and especially if your using 6x lyssa runes. And many classes have a counter for the haste stomp you just have to time your interupt right and aswell for thief and mesmer your teleport and clone dump right aswell. and you pretty much counter it. Spvp is a team oriented part of the game you have a team for a reason your not alone if you choose to go alone. and take points by urself by all means go ahead but if you end up facing a time warp mesmer and you actually stay to fight him while he is in time warp? you deserve to be haste stomped .. period point blank sorry to tell ya.

Only time i ever even see a mesmer is that they are brand new to the game and actually use time warp. Other than that its eithier moa morph or mass invisibility and everyone can agree to that one. terribly easy to counter time warp. DONT go near it with you or your team..simple… get the high ground if you can.

Dont call for nerfs because your simply getting your tail kicked by a mesmer take the death like a man respawn and go after them again.. its a game people not your LIFE. oh and remember the long long long…. terribly long cooldown time warp is on. most games you can only use it eithier up to 2 or 3 times.. 3 times is stretching it x.x usually if you kill that said person with the utility enough times they rage quit anyway and leave the game. just goes to show how bad they really are ive faced plenty of time warp mesmers and i got to say my S/S build is doing just fine and sadly i can stand in thier own time warp and beat on them just as easily because they think they are tanking me ? yea dream on your about to die after this mind wrack goodbye ^^

Seether.7285:

To all the people in this thread thinking this is about nerfing mesmers, it really isn’t. It is about making the game better to play. If they were to change these two abilities I would actually like them to do something to help mesmers out because these two abilities are obviously a big part that teams take mesmers. But as I stated in my first post, these abilities are pretty much the strongest two abilities in the game and no other class has anything that can match these two abilities making mesmers a part of nearly every competitive team.

You would be wrong Seether. This thread is entirely about nerfing mesmer, from the title through to the end. If it were about quickness then the discussion would be about removing that from the game and not just Time Warp.

If it were about balance and making game play better there would be discussion regarding Time Warp as an Elite skill and some suggestions on how to compensate mesmers for nerfing their only offensive pvp elite. You’re also suggesting they change portal yet again, even if portal only allowed 1 person to go through it people would still cry about it. A thief could use a trap for essentially the same result plus a 5 second stealth on a 30s cooldown then with their amazing dps and mobility they could kill the person and be back in to the fight far more easily than a mesmer with portal…

Edit: forgot to mention that the thief trap has 10,000 range on it. slightly further than portal has wouldn’t you say.

Great, so this is next on the “we hate mesmers” list… I’m going to echo what some others have said. Since obviously devs like to listen to these threads and will likely change this if there’s enough crying about it (which there always is), PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT A PVP ONLY CHANGE. I never PvP. Never. There is zero reason to change this in PvE if you change the skill at all, which I frankly don’t see why you would. 10 seconds of quickness… every 210 seconds. Also, have none of you though to bomb a timewarp with confusion?

Mufa.1326:

So whatever is causing teams to consider mesmer a-must-have-member needs to be nerfed to the ground so that noone considers mesmers (nor any other class) a must-have-member of top team.

And if you cannot grasp this simple concept, you should not be participating in balance discussions.

No. No no. No no no, a thousand times NO NO NO NO NO.

You do NOT nerf a class to the ground to make other classes viable. That is an absolutely terrible design philosophy, and you should be ashamed for being so selfish as to even suggest it. If you nerf a class to the ground, you just end up with another “underpowered” class that will not be used.

That then requires a new class to become the sacrificial lamb. This philosophy encourages a “Flavor of the Month” style meta where ENTIRE CLASSES become obsolete.

If this is a problem that needs to be fixed, fine. Buff other classes to make them more flexible and more desirable to bring… don’t make an entire class useless. There is an enormous difference between balance and selfish whining, one you clearly don’t understand. If you cannot grasp these simple concepts, you should not be participating in balance discussions.

Caffynated.5713:

Xeron.3745:

Bah, i dont get it. Why is everyone calling stuff OP if they cant handle it? (I do not mean necessarily you). I guess they dont even think about “how to counter” that. It was the same with Warrior 100b at start and now everyone is laughing about 100b Warriors.

I think its the same with time warp from Mesmer.

FOR EXAMPLE:
Lets say we are in a 5v5 Team battle in Forest of Nifhil at Keep. Mesmers of both sides are caping close point and move up to keep for Time warp to support the team. So when you see how the enemy Mesmer is using Time warp your Whole Team have to retreat immediately (ofcourse you will lose the point for a moment) to force the enemy team out of the time warp field so they will lose their quickness. Even if they still have it (lets say you got a warrior and a necro in your team) necro can pop well of corruption to remove quickness and warrior can use Greathammer F1 to stun multiple enemys ( ranger, thief, etc. can also help with traps to slow their movements). So now you turned the whole teamfight, make your mesmer pop Time warp and blow the enemys away (since all their melee and dps classes should be right infront of you, you should have no problems in taking them down).

Thats my opinion how to counter Time warp! and im sure there are still alot more ways to counter it. Ofcourse its just theory and needs alot of coordination and practice.

PS. sorry for my broken english. grammar and spelling

We’re playing a game mode that is mostly about holding a point and your counter to Time Warp is to tuck tail and leave the point letting the enemy have it.

That is the textbook definition of an “I Win Button.”

this just gave me a great idea what if Anet came out with these other maps and stuff where you did not have to play conquest…..

oh wait……

Richard Nixon.6573:

Mufa.1326:

So whatever is causing teams to consider mesmer a-must-have-member needs to be nerfed to the ground so that noone considers mesmers (nor any other class) a must-have-member of top team.

And if you cannot grasp this simple concept, you should not be participating in balance discussions.

No. No no. No no no, a thousand times NO NO NO NO NO.

You do NOT nerf a class to the ground to make other classes viable. That is an absolutely terrible design philosophy, and you should be ashamed for being so selfish as to even suggest it. If you nerf a class to the ground, you just end up with another “underpowered” class that will not be used.

That then requires a new class to become the sacrificial lamb. This philosophy encourages a “Flavor of the Month” style meta where ENTIRE CLASSES become obsolete.

If this is a problem that needs to be fixed, fine. Buff other classes to make them more flexible and more desirable to bring… don’t make an entire class useless. There is an enormous difference between balance and selfish whining, one you clearly don’t understand. If you cannot grasp these simple concepts, you should not be participating in balance discussions.

WoW, where have I seen this happen before….

Richard Nixon.6573:

Mufa.1326:

So whatever is causing teams to consider mesmer a-must-have-member needs to be nerfed to the ground so that noone considers mesmers (nor any other class) a must-have-member of top team.

And if you cannot grasp this simple concept, you should not be participating in balance discussions.

You do NOT nerf a class to the ground to make other classes viable. That is an absolutely terrible design philosophy, and you should be ashamed for being so selfish as to even suggest it. If you nerf a class to the ground, you just end up with another “underpowered” class that will not be used.

That then requires a new class to become the sacrificial lamb. This philosophy encourages a “Flavor of the Month” style meta where ENTIRE CLASSES become obsolete.

If this is a problem that needs to be fixed, fine. Buff other classes to make them more flexible and more desirable to bring… don’t make an entire class useless. There is an enormous difference between balance and selfish whining, one you clearly don’t understand. If you cannot grasp these simple concepts, you should not be participating in balance discussions.

Class A has an ability that gives their team invulnerability for a minute. To balance this we’re giving Class B the ability to one shot people from 5000 range.

Time warp is broke. You’re suggesting rebalancing ALL classes to have elites that compete with time warp. Not only would that ruin the game but it would also be absurdly time consuming and open up other venues for broken elites.

Guys, let’s be real and stop insulting everyone…

Ostricheggs.3742:

Class A has an ability that gives their team invulnerability for a minute. To balance this we’re giving Class B the ability to one shot people from 5000 range.

Time warp is broke. You’re suggesting rebalancing ALL classes to have elites that compete with time warp. Not only would that ruin the game but it would also be absurdly time consuming and open up other venues for broken elites.

Guys, let’s be real and stop insulting everyone…

If you’re going to grossly exaggerate, would you mind reading my post and understanding what I’m saying first? And not put words in my mouth?

I did not say that each class needs to have elites that compare to Time Warp. What I did say was to, “make other classes more flexible and desirable to bring”. This means allowing each class to bring something to the table other than just pure dps or pure bunker builds.

Each class should have a little something unique to it that makes it desirable to play. Not in grossly overpowered elites to destroy other classes, as you seem to think, but in some small way that makes them stand out- ranger spirits to buff your allies are a great example of this- an awesome, unique idea that would be a great reason to have a ranger. But because ranger spirits are not very strong, you steadily tweak them to make them more desirable, and thus increase the viability of rangers.

Is Time Warp broken? No. There are plenty of counter-measures to make it almost completely useless to the mesmer. Is it strong? Used in the right situations, yes. Does it need tweaks? Perhaps. But you don’t destroy the skill along with the entire profession to do it, which is what I was responding to.

Hah! Really? Time Warp? Yeah, it’s an excellent skill and has it’s uses, but it’s soo easy to counter how can you call it OP? (except maybe in wvwvw siege and guild ambushes) As soon as I see a TW I pop reflect, retaliation, and any confusion skills I have, and I get free kills.

Have you guys ever heard of confusion?

tqhx.2190:

Have you guys ever heard of confusion?

Have you ever heard of hard condition removal, eg. null field, necro staff #4, warrior’s shouts and warhorn(although almost nobody is bringing warriors to tournaments these days), elementalist’s condition removal, and so on?

tqhx.2190:

Have you guys ever heard of confusion?

beat me to it by minutes; I was about to say – not once in this thread has anyone brought up confusion; the natural counter to timewarp. If you throw confusion on a team under timewarp, they will annhilate themselves – nevermind that if you throw AoEs into the timewarp AoE, or send a warrior into the zone you can pretty easily flush them out after which they have a long cooldown.

And remember this IS a long cooldown – timewarp isn’t something you’ll see every time you fight a mesmer (Though it’s more likely since you all got moa nerfed, mesmers are running out of viable skills!)

This is mostly an L2P issue

yes, confusion counters time warp in your mind. because you, yourself, are confused. in a real scenario there’s no way in hell you can react fast enough to stack 10 confusion on your opponents because for those 10 seconds youre just trying to survive, or clearing the point. obviously, youve never met an organized team with HASTE.

tqhx.2190:

Have you guys ever heard of confusion?

So, to counter TW which is a MESMER elite, we need to counter it with confusion. I wonder what class uses confusion the most…omfg MESMER!!

Confusion adds a good bonus to the counter, but the real money is in the reflection and retaliation. And no, you don’t need a mesmer to counter it. Guardians, eles, necros, and engineers have decent reflect or retaliation tools, and engineers can sustain AOE confusion almost the whole duration of TW. Hell, one well placed Wall of Reflection can almost nullify a TW for ranged attackers.

Sifu.6527:

tqhx.2190:

Have you guys ever heard of confusion?

So, to counter TW which is a MESMER elite, we need to counter it with confusion. I wonder what class uses confusion the most…omfg MESMER!!

was about to post exactly the same and as stated before

Krilce.7864:

PearlGore.7419:

And this is a problem why?

“Having a mandatory profession in every single team comp limits viability of other professions, and therefor limits the whole team…”

While I like Ostricheggs idea there is one small fact he is overlooking. The real reason he made this thread is save himself further beat downs in tourney. Fact remains is it doesn’t matter what nerf happens to mesmer he is still gonna get stomped just like the last several times I’ve played him and I don’t even play mes or need time warp. ROFL

I can’t believe people are recommending confusion as a counter to time warp.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusion

Only non-mesmer ranged confusion is static shot which gives 2 stacks of confusion. Trying to run into a time warp to lay down a concussion bomb = death.

I swear to god you people have no idea what you’re talking about. All you’re doing is coming up with over-the-top and ridiculous “counters” to time warp only to have it be parroted 30 times over.

So wait, if mesmers are required for 5v5 then it’s safe to assume both teams have a mesmer right? If both teams have access to time warp how is this game breaking. Apparently every team has access to this ability….

Gaiawolf.8261:

Hah! Really? Time Warp? Yeah, it’s an excellent skill and has it’s uses, but it’s soo easy to counter how can you call it OP? (except maybe in wvwvw siege and guild ambushes) As soon as I see a TW I pop reflect, retaliation, and any confusion skills I have, and I get free kills.

Something Guardians/Engineers/Necros and so on can do… Hmmmmm… I like

Also I like that confusion has been nerfed to satisfy the PvP people so that it is less intense than in PvE. yet i still hear people whine about confusion.

eqpablon.9072:

So wait, if mesmers are required for 5v5 then it’s safe to assume both teams have a mesmer right? If both teams have access to time warp how is this game breaking. Apparently every team has access to this ability….

^

I do not think that there is a need to nerf that skill. Just add a negative effect to it and the problem will solve from it self.
At the moment Time Warp : Create an area that warps time, granting you and your allies quickness.
They can change it to : Create an area that warps time, granting you and your allies quickness. Allies under the effect are taking 50% more damage.

In that way a mesmer will think twice when to activate the Time Warp, since it has a negative effect on it.

Regards

Seed

So, I’m wondering. How much does mesmer have to be nerfed before everyone here is happy? Can we just have you guys run trials with different spec mes and then, when you guys finally beat one, we can nerf the mesmer down to where that’s the only viable build?

It’d save so much time.

eqpablon.9072:

So wait, if mesmers are required for 5v5 then it’s safe to assume both teams have a mesmer right? If both teams have access to time warp how is this game breaking. Apparently every team has access to this ability….

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ryuujin.8236:

tqhx.2190:

Have you guys ever heard of confusion?

beat me to it by minutes; I was about to say – not once in this thread has anyone brought up confusion; the natural counter to timewarp. If you throw confusion on a team under timewarp, they will annhilate themselves – nevermind that if you throw AoEs into the timewarp AoE, or send a warrior into the zone you can pretty easily flush them out after which they have a long cooldown.

And remember this IS a long cooldown – timewarp isn’t something you’ll see every time you fight a mesmer (Though it’s more likely since you all got moa nerfed, mesmers are running out of viable skills!)

This is mostly an L2P issue

Well good thing mesmers have nullfield, eh?

Also the people thinking it’s balanced because both teams can have a mesmer are ridiculous. Being forced to bring a specific class to be competitive is the very definition of OP.

It’s horrible ability design to give player A the ability to give allied player B a penalty, FYI… I would say no way that would ever happen but you never know with these guys, they don’t seem to have learned many of the lessons of other MMOs….

At any rate it should be a penalty on the Mesmer only and I think an appropriate penalty might be spontaneous combustion?

Timewarp is so easily countered I don’t understand so many people complaining about it, Quickly run/teleport/charge/dodge far out of range of the timewarp use blocks/stuns etc. You can easily mitigate timewarp that way because the people inside it can’t move outside of it or they will loose the quickness.

I’ve avoided timewarps that way before. Seriously try it, Once you are out of range, timewarp will be pretty useless to them damage wise other than to decrease the global cd’s on their abilities/heals but those 10 seconds away from timewarp also gives you time to heal up etc.

Cooldown on timewarp is immense. It’s about learning to avoid it, getting away from it.

I love how nobody here is complaining about D/D ele’s and P/D vit/heal thieves, If you want to talk OP….

By your logic, no stationary area effect could ever be overpowered no matter what it does.

The ‘but there’s counters’ argument is total garbage honestly. You can counter absolutely any ability in the game by staying ~3000 units from every other player! Either an ability makes the game more interesting, balanced, exciting and/or fun or it does not. Any ability that almost everybody feels they ‘need to have’ in any format is probably already got two of three strikes against it…

TW reminds me of Blood Lust from WoW. It became mandatory for 5’s teams to have it, but it restricted team compositions to always include a shaman. They started giving more classes the ability, but then altogether eliminated its use from arenas.

Fun fact: Engineer grenadier actually counters timewarp.

1500 range. 300 range edge on timewarp, can easily harass from outside of it. Mixed conditions and the actual radius goes a bit beyond the 300 range edge, letting you completely safely fight enemies in timewarp. If they leave, they lose the buff.

What people in this thread don’t seem to understand is how powerful Time Warp is when it is laid on a point when there is a team fight.

Any single skill that can shift the momentum of a fight so easily such as Time Warp shouldn’t exist(in PvP). Atleast not in the form it’s in now.

Cooldown? You only need to use it once. After that you just need to hold the point or keep it contested.

Counters? Sometimes Time Warp isn’t used to kill people(so confusion/retaliation has little to no effect)
It can also be used to:
-stomp
-res
-heal

Run away? In tPvP that means losing the point, and that means potentially losing the match because of ONE skill that ONE person brought.

You say it’s balanced because everyone can bring it? You’re saying that if everyone brings a mesmer it’s fine. What about teams without a mesmer with Time Warp?

I stick by my suggestion of making it a channeled skill centered around the mesmer. It can keep it’s effect, but the mesmer should have to sacrifice or risk something for something so powerful.

There are no other skills in the game that can have as profound effect on a battle as Time Warp, except for maybe Portal in the right situation…hmmm..

Time Warp just provides a benefit that greatly outweighs any negatives you can consider for it to be “balanced”

This thread has gotten ridiculous. It is clearly just another anti Mesmer thread. TW is being exaggerated just to kill one of the few reasons to bring a Mesmer in tpvp at all. Each class has an elite when used at the right time can turn the tide of the battle. Manywithshorter cool downs. TW is favored, not because it is op, because it counters the bunker builds that are the meta. So many are crying that Mesmers are op because they are required, but ignore that guardians are in every group (and are preferred in pve as well). People are complaining about a symptom rather than the disease because of mesmer hate. Removing TW not improve the game, it will only remove the Mesmer.

AnemoneMeer.7182:

Fun fact: Engineer grenadier actually counters timewarp.

1500 range. 300 range edge on timewarp, can easily harass from outside of it. Mixed conditions and the actual radius goes a bit beyond the 300 range edge, letting you completely safely fight enemies in timewarp. If they leave, they lose the buff.

Loved the fact and found out last night that engineers grenades can go 1500… Further than most other long range abilities except maybe kill shot and Ranger LB attacks. TIMEWARP COUNTERED!!!

Not unless they do a PvP / PvE split, and give the meta 1-3 months to settle after the next patch.

-Sincore

Well. I believe I have identified the problem here.

The people in this thread are arguing in two different realms

Hotjoin and Tournament PvP

In hotjoin Time Warp is not a huge problem, mostly because coordination is minimal, so a Time Warp requires attentive, knowlegable players to even begin abusing.

In Tournament PvP(yes it exists) where you likely have a premade team that may even have voice chat, Time Warp’s effects are amplified.

There is no such thing as countering time warp at the moment. It is just plopped on a point usually and abused as much as possible. Anything you do to “counter” it would happen normally anyways, and only really kills bad players who have no idea whats going on. Most likely if you are fighting someone of such low skill cap, chances are you’re in hotjoin anyways.

DaShi.1368:

This thread has gotten ridiculous. It is clearly just another anti Mesmer thread. TW is being exaggerated just to kill one of the few reasons to bring a Mesmer in tpvp at all. Each class has an elite when used at the right time can turn the tide of the battle. Manywithshorter cool downs. TW is favored, not because it is op, because it counters the bunker builds that are the meta. So many are crying that Mesmers are op because they are required, but ignore that guardians are in every group (and are preferred in pve as well). People are complaining about a symptom rather than the disease because of mesmer hate. Removing TW not improve the game, it will only remove the Mesmer.

Even if it were true that the ONLY reason people bring mesmer is for Time Warp, that must be one insanely good reason.

The fact of the matter is that Time Warp right now is a bonus. A “no risk” fire and forget(and abuse) button to turn just about any fight in the caster’s favor. Mesmers actually operate just fine without Time Warp. Notice how long the CD on Time Warp is? Most of the time Mesmers aren’t even using it and they’re STILL considered by many to be OP.

I would like to hear of all these elites that other classes have that can “turn the tide of battle.” At best those other elites are highly situational, some of which are COMBINED with Time Warp and abused.

It’s not mesmer hate to think Time Warp is out of line. It wouldn’t matter what class has it. It’s still too powerful.

One again, the solution is easy:
-Make Time Warp a channeled skill. You interrupt the mesmer, you stop Time Warp.
-Make it centered around the Mesmer. The mesmer must risk their own safety to grant a benefit to their team. In a good team, the mesmer will have support, and suffer little to no consequence.

This would maintain the same effect and group utility of Time Warp, but it could no longer be abused so easily. Heck they could probably even make it so the mesmer who is casting it gains protection.

Angriff.1935:

One again, the solution is easy:
-Make Time Warp a channeled skill. You interrupt the mesmer, you stop Time Warp.
-Make it centered around the Mesmer. The mesmer must risk their own safety to grant a benefit to their team. In a good team, the mesmer will have support, and suffer little to no consequence.

And how exactly is this meant to be any use to a solo PvE mesmer, if he can have quickness just as long as he doesn’t actually cast anything? ¬_¬

Remember; for whatever reason anet has decided no PvE/PvP split for mezzie so whatever strategies emerge here have got to remain useful in story mode too (A part of the game where Mesmer is already one of the weakest classes)